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They don't really do anything fun with him though, he's just an extra miniboss whenever it's time to fight those guys.
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Mar 5, 2018 05:42
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drrockso20 posted:It's kinda funny that when you get down to it that SEED is the darkest Gundam series, even taking into account that several entries are post apocalyptic and one centers around child soldiers What makes you say that? I mean, the UC has half of humanity wiped before the opening credits roll (and things don't much improve from there), IBO has childhood sex slavery as a major character motivator, AGE has the villains be partially motivated by Earth's attempted genocide to cover up a terraforming failure... I can think of plenty about SEED that's dark, sure, but I'm not seeing the move that grants it the gold medal.
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Mar 5, 2018 06:10
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Onmi posted:I can't tell if that's sarcasm or not. But the issue isn't "Everyone's true to their characters" It's that... we weren't threatening Lacus, if Natarle put a gun to Lacus' head, then sure, I get it. It works in that case because that's a spite thing "If you refuse to leave I will shoot your princess before you shoot us." "We can't guarantee her safety" is an extremely loaded statement and Natarle definitely puts it in a way that implies consequences beyond the mere altercation they're having right at that moment. At that point Lacus becomes insurance, and if she's insurance she's a hostage. At no point does anyone dispute this, they simply argue about the right or wrong of it. Look at it this way. It's a good thing everyone had different views on it, and in fact even the main character choices have a different view on it. If everyone had just gone "Yeah this is fine" it would have completely undermined the desperation of the situation because then it wouldn't seem like the pride and moral values of certain characters were being compromised in the face of a need to just survive and utterly deflates the importance of the situation and the action. Pragmatism versus Idealism is always interesting (and is kind of one of those things that's a core part of Martian Successor Nadesico's own conflicts) and in the end Kira and the others who agree with him almost make things worse if not for Lacus intervening and then the Radam coming in. And yeah it was sarcasm because at the very least Kouji Kabuto wouldn't stand for hostage taking in any way, shape or form no matter how you tried to word it. Not merely because it goes completely against everything he stands for, but also because he knows what it feels like and it feels awful. Hostage taking is what his enemies do. He literally cannot react any other way and that's what I mean about everyone being allowed to be in character and expecting them to not voice anger even if they're helplessly forced into the situation is to completely misunderstand and misread the entire scenario's intent. Edit: Also ZAFT being upset at getting swerved on after all but winning the bout is a highlight of the myopic nature of the conflict where one side will make everything they do permissible but be horrified at anything the enemy does to reinforce their one-sided view of their own righteousness that continues to perpetuate the conflict when the growing number of other issues arising threatens to engulf them all in fire and terror, and makes it easy for certain individuals to influence for their own destructive goals. It isn't the first time they brush off something they've done while complaining about the actions of the others (lamenting the death of one of their own when they shoot several people and blow up a space colony in the midst of the conflict). TheLastRoboKy fucked around with this message at 06:20 on Mar 5, 2018 |
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Mar 5, 2018 06:11
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chiasaur11 posted:What makes you say that? Yeah I dunno about gold medal, but there are a lot of dudes who get microwaved in Alaska and Rau's plan was to kill literally everyone with nuclear war, so there's at least points for trying.
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Mar 5, 2018 06:16
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Inferno-sama posted:Natarle's entire existence is to be the person who does the more morally questionable things so that the show can act like Ramius is a great woman, when she's really loving incompetent. How sad is it that Ensign Bright Noa is a better captain than Lieutenant Murrue Ramius? And remember, Bright ran from the bridge, during combat, to have a go at Amuro, and then hit him twice. Despite the meme, that was a bad idea. And yet I'd rather have Ensign Noa as my captain, because at least he'll punish people, unlike Ramius who does nothing more than "Please don't do that again". bright would not tolerate wailing like a beluga whale on his ship
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Mar 5, 2018 06:26
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So I picked up SD G Generations Genesis since I saw it had an English Translation. Its helped scratch that SRW itch while I'm waiting for X. Holy gently caress the cutscenes being unskippable is the worst goddamn thing ever though. Ditto every stage taking like 90 minutes, and I've started running into some fun 'gently caress you, start over' poo poo. It is incredibly satisfying to just have everyone use random Zakus and poo poo though. I've always like Zeon stuff way more than Federation stuff aesthetically. Gundams especially tend to be boring as hell unless they have weird gimmick bits.
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Mar 5, 2018 06:44
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It is important to remember even SeeD is bad and just forget about it.
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Mar 5, 2018 06:55
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Logicblade posted:Yeah I dunno about gold medal, but there are a lot of dudes who get microwaved in Alaska and Rau's plan was to kill literally everyone with nuclear war, so there's at least points for trying. Not to mention GENESIS which wins the award for ludicrous overkill with a WMD in Gundam Which ties into probably the thing I dislike the most about SEED, it's extremely out of place gorn
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Mar 5, 2018 06:56
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TheLastRoboKy posted:"We can't guarantee her safety" is an extremely loaded statement and Natarle definitely puts it in a way that implies consequences beyond the mere altercation they're having right at that moment. At that point Lacus becomes insurance, and if she's insurance she's a hostage. At no point does anyone dispute this, they simply argue about the right or wrong of it. Oh, I get people having an issue with it. It's just that Ramius is completely against it, and when Kira launches without permission in the Strike to return Lacus (again, without permission) and Ramius gives him less than a slap on the wrist. I'm fine with Ramius being against it, that adds drama and conflict to this crew. It's just that when Kira returns Lacus, she doesn't even come down on him at all, despite the fact that what he did was, as a civilian, steal a military weapon to go give someone to other people. What's more, Kira did the whole "I can't guarantee her safety" thing while she was in the Strike's cockpit, and no one has an issue with that. Plus (at least in SRW) Rau lied to Kira when he said he wouldn't attack, thus showing more of the myopicness of this conflict. And again, once Kira's done that, only Natarle comes down on him. This is why I said that Natarle basically exists to do the more morally questionable stuff to make Ramius look better, because even when she's doing something with a very good reason, Ramius still goes against her. I'm not saying he should be thrown in the brig, but 24 hour arrest in his room, or at least toilet cleaning duty like his co-conspirators. But no, Kira gets away scot-free.
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Mar 5, 2018 07:38
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Would you say Gundam SEED belongs in a(nother?) SRW game featuring the darkest and most depressing series they can get their hands on?
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Mar 5, 2018 09:03
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MightyPretenders posted:Would you say Gundam SEED belongs in a(nother?) SRW game featuring the darkest and most depressing series they can get their hands on? Seed's problem is sort of the problem that Alpha 3, J and W all had to handle in their own way. Alpha 3 had to explain what the gently caress Plants were, why these Gundams were important at all, and suddenly retcon this OYW level conflict into a game about fighting to the ends of the galaxy. J just plays it straight, which makes no sense. Seeds story kind of hinges on the Archangel being alone and outnumbered in a war, not only does Zaft have the overwhelming advantage, Natural's can't even PILOT Mobile Suits because it's apparently too complex. This falls apart when you have Arm Slaves for example, which can apparently be easily modified to function in space, yet the Federation has seen no need to do so. There's not even a throwaway about how the M6 just can't stand up to a Mobile Suit. Then there's the G Gundam paradox, so... the Gundam Fight is a thing, and Neo X are things, and Mobile Suits simple enough to be piloted by a butler with a steering wheel are things... but not any of the normal mobile suits from G Gundam? What's the Gundam Fight for exactly? Why is Neo Sweden a thing, what IS a Neo Sweden in the J world? Like I'm leaving out Astevalis because you have to get modified to pilot one and Super Robots are all privately owned, so again, not shocking that the government doesn't have them... I mean Boss Borot functions, beyond all reason it functions and was made by a highschooler and his cronies but we're overlooking. But the core conflict of Seed is "No, really the Federation loving NEEDS the Strike, no seriously if they don't get the Strike they're hosed." and I just don't see that in J. W's answer for it was the best, "Just don't have the Archangel join until that part of the plot ceases mattering." I mean... it doesn't super explain the whole "Mobile Suits already exist" thing but... at least it doesn't try to make the Archangel work. So to answer your question, sort of like the OYW, it belongs in an SRW that actually makes use of its "No seriously, the Federation needs the Archangel and Strike or it's hosed."
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Mar 5, 2018 13:20
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Yeah in retrospect it's kinda obvious why SEED has only been in about 3 games compared to how many Destiny has been in
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Mar 5, 2018 13:31
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Inferno-sama posted:Oh, I get people having an issue with it. It's just that Ramius is completely against it, and when Kira launches without permission in the Strike to return Lacus (again, without permission) and Ramius gives him less than a slap on the wrist. I'm fine with Ramius being against it, that adds drama and conflict to this crew. It's just that when Kira returns Lacus, she doesn't even come down on him at all, despite the fact that what he did was, as a civilian, steal a military weapon to go give someone to other people. What's more, Kira did the whole "I can't guarantee her safety" thing while she was in the Strike's cockpit, and no one has an issue with that. Plus (at least in SRW) Rau lied to Kira when he said he wouldn't attack, thus showing more of the myopicness of this conflict. And again, once Kira's done that, only Natarle comes down on him. This is why I said that Natarle basically exists to do the more morally questionable stuff to make Ramius look better, because even when she's doing something with a very good reason, Ramius still goes against her. I'm not saying he should be thrown in the brig, but 24 hour arrest in his room, or at least toilet cleaning duty like his co-conspirators. But no, Kira gets away scot-free. I'm not arguing against how dumb what Kira did was. I'm just saying there's more to that earlier scene than "Natarle does what has to be done and everyone is written to be assholes to her just to be assholes" when there's very clear positions where the people who speak against it have it basically scorched into their character that yes, they would undoubtedly hate it. Kira definitely makes a really stupid decision and gets away with it (I think they actually do something in SEED but it's still a sort of slap on the wrist because they need him around to pilot the Strike? I might be wrong) but they don't really have the time to actually do anything about it because the Radam turn up and they're trying to get that last bit of the journey to earth. I feel people get way too wound up by this stuff in either direction and I guess it's largely the fault of SEED being pretty garbo in general and the clusterfuck of its premise involving the state of mobile suits and whatnot as Onmi points out above. For my mind Natarle's biggest problem in J is that she's still more or less written as the pragmatic and very unbending type which is a role destined for misery when the loving Nadesico is in play because every time Natarle goes "We can't really rely on them" the Yurika goes "We'll shield you so you don't die with our amazing shields because we're friends!" and I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing it just shows that her mindset is just not suited for the kind of thing a SRW game becomes where everyone gets together and hugs and then punches a super dimensional-space-god or whatever.
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Mar 5, 2018 13:35
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Zore posted:So I picked up SD G Generations Genesis since I saw it had an English Translation. Its helped scratch that SRW itch while I'm waiting for X. You can skip cutscenes, but I think only after you've seen them once, which allows you to skip straight to deploying your guys skipping the story unit only segments.
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Mar 5, 2018 17:20
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EthanSteele posted:You can skip cutscenes, but I think only after you've seen them once, which allows you to skip straight to deploying your guys skipping the story unit only segments. I think you have to actually complete the level once. I backed out to redo a loadout and had to sit through the cutscene again. Eh, its only really annoying me because its trying to make me feel sympathy for the Zeon Warcrimes squad right now.
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Mar 5, 2018 17:45
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Yeah IGLOO is not good.
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Mar 5, 2018 17:51
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TheLastRoboKy posted:I'm not arguing against how dumb what Kira did was. I'm just saying there's more to that earlier scene than "Natarle does what has to be done and everyone is written to be assholes to her just to be assholes" when there's very clear positions where the people who speak against it have it basically scorched into their character that yes, they would undoubtedly hate it. Kira definitely makes a really stupid decision and gets away with it (I think they actually do something in SEED but it's still a sort of slap on the wrist because they need him around to pilot the Strike? I might be wrong) but they don't really have the time to actually do anything about it because the Radam turn up and they're trying to get that last bit of the journey to earth. I feel people get way too wound up by this stuff in either direction and I guess it's largely the fault of SEED being pretty garbo in general and the clusterfuck of its premise involving the state of mobile suits and whatnot as Onmi points out above. Okay, fair. Still hold that Kira getting away with doing the "I can't guarantee her safety thing" is bull, but at least I know why he got away with it (namely that the only people who heard him were the already angry ZAFT). So, yeah. Still think that Natarle is basically doing everything she can to keep the Archangel safe and is having to make such a morally questionable decision for that, so I do give her props for it. And again, it honestly comes across as having her do that, plus having her be the one to be trying to punish Kira for his whole thing, be her having to do the morally questionable things so that Ramius doesn't have to and she can remain likeable. And that's ignoring the SRW, that's honestly how it feels in SEED. But yeah, the others weren't written like dicks, I was just projecting my annoyance with Ramius' attitude to Natarle onto them. And as I already stated, OMNI is extremely stupid in J, which is why it's completely fitting that Natarle, who stays with OMNI until she dies, is also stupid and thinks the Archangel can't really on anyone who has proven time and again to be helpful. Onmi posted:Seed's problem is sort of the problem that Alpha 3, J and W all had to handle in their own way. Alpha 3 had to explain what the gently caress Plants were, why these Gundams were important at all, and suddenly retcon this OYW level conflict into a game about fighting to the ends of the galaxy. J just plays it straight, which makes no sense. Seeds story kind of hinges on the Archangel being alone and outnumbered in a war, not only does Zaft have the overwhelming advantage, Natural's can't even PILOT Mobile Suits because it's apparently too complex. This falls apart when you have Arm Slaves for example, which can apparently be easily modified to function in space, yet the Federation has seen no need to do so. There's not even a throwaway about how the M6 just can't stand up to a Mobile Suit. Then there's the G Gundam paradox, so... the Gundam Fight is a thing, and Neo X are things, and Mobile Suits simple enough to be piloted by a butler with a steering wheel are things... but not any of the normal mobile suits from G Gundam? What's the Gundam Fight for exactly? Why is Neo Sweden a thing, what IS a Neo Sweden in the J world? Like I'm leaving out Astevalis because you have to get modified to pilot one and Super Robots are all privately owned, so again, not shocking that the government doesn't have them... I mean Boss Borot functions, beyond all reason it functions and was made by a highschooler and his cronies but we're overlooking. I honestly don't even know where to begin with SEED in Alpha 3. I mean, IIRC (based on second hand info) weren't they forced to include it despite how it wouldn't fit? And W does explain it in terms of gameplay...namely that when you get to the invasion of Orb, you can see all the Arm Slaves and Mobile Suits together, and the Arm Slaves are weaker than the Mobile Suits. Same again in space levels. So, yeah, W's at least got that going for it.
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Mar 5, 2018 19:58
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I'm looking at secrets right now. Turns out my favorited series are all on the Great Zeorymer routes anyway, so Imma get me some of that. I know not to deploy Zeorymer and to use it to kill the relevant bosses. Do I have to worry about any retreat thresholds? Also, someone on J and W must really love Gai Daigoji. In W he lives by default, and in J the requirement to get him back is "take two of the Nadesico routes."
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Mar 5, 2018 23:33
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All the SEED talk just reminds me that I'm glad it won't be in X at all. I could say the same of Unicorn too. Not that Unicorn is as egregious, but it's nice to move on...even if it's to Reco In G. I still want to see what they do with IBO when they get that, if it'll be on its own, or if they'll try to put it alongside some other Gundam.
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Mar 6, 2018 00:54
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Hunter Noventa posted:All the SEED talk just reminds me that I'm glad it won't be in X at all. I could say the same of Unicorn too. Not that Unicorn is as egregious, but it's nice to move on...even if it's to Reco In G. Odds are extremely good it'll end up alongside Wing or 00.
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Mar 6, 2018 00:56
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ImpAtom posted:Odds are extremely good it'll end up alongside Wing or 00. It would actually line up pretty well with either or both of those, and would work decently well with either AGE or F91 as well
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Mar 6, 2018 01:06
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It seems like IBO would pair decently with a lot of Gundam shows. Like the emphasis on unearthing Mobile Suits in there could easily fit alongside X or Turn-A and could lead to some interesting cross-series interactions.
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Mar 6, 2018 01:11
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Natarle not wanting to rely on civilians isn't stupid, it's being professional. If you were a military officer fighting in a hostile environment and a bunch of rednecks with rifles showed up and offered to help you you'd probably be leery about trying to incorporate them into your formation because they are going to lack discipline and training and their presence might make things even more dangerous for everyone involved because of that chaos factor. If you have a bunch of weird irregulars clogging up the battlefield who don't necessarily fall into a clear chain of command or understand orders immediately it can create a real problem. It doesn't matter how much firepower you have if it can't be effectively utilized. There's also the factor that it's supposed to be a voluntary military's job to protect civilians so press-ganging them into military service is not a good look.
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Mar 6, 2018 01:11
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Wake me up when Captain Harlock gets confirmed for the next Carrier only series.
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Mar 6, 2018 01:12
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setsuna is gonna be so jealous when he learns that Mika hooks up directly with his Gundam
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Mar 6, 2018 01:25
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I'm interested in how IBO would end in an SRW since its ending is... not a happy one.
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Mar 6, 2018 03:00
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Onmi posted:I'm interested in how IBO would end in an SRW since its ending is... not a happy one. the girls got married, thats the happiest gundam ending
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Mar 6, 2018 03:09
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Onmi posted:I'm interested in how IBO would end in an SRW since its ending is... not a happy one. I mean the obvious answer is "You have an army of super robots + super intelligent super technicians, they wreck a bunch of poo poo and Barbatos gets upgraded so Mika can use Red Eye Barbatos for 70 EN 23 times a map." This is the same franchise that gave way darker shows than IBO happy endings after all.
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Mar 6, 2018 03:11
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Onmi posted:I'm interested in how IBO would end in an SRW since its ending is... not a happy one. I mean, SRW has had Ideon, Evangelion, Baldios, Zambot...
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Mar 6, 2018 03:13
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I'd be curious to see how Rustal and his faction gets handled more than anything.
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Mar 6, 2018 03:16
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Raxivace posted:I'd be curious to see how Rustal and his faction gets handled more than anything. I'm guessing it'll be a Miwa-deviation-from-canon situation where you end up having to wreck his poo poo and he's got some absurdly hard-hitting mooks with map attacks to deal with. I'm more curious about McGillis. Gali-Gali is like the most obvious recruit ever but I'm curious if they'll upgrade McGillis to major boss status or make him a default ally or what. It'll also be hilarious if the Ryusei-Go ends up being one of those mecha that is absurdly powerful in SRW terms because of all the stuff it can do that never really pays off in-series
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Mar 6, 2018 03:23
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i just want lafter
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Mar 6, 2018 03:49
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Kanos posted:Natarle not wanting to rely on civilians isn't stupid, it's being professional. If you were a military officer fighting in a hostile environment and a bunch of rednecks with rifles showed up and offered to help you you'd probably be leery about trying to incorporate them into your formation because they are going to lack discipline and training and their presence might make things even more dangerous for everyone involved because of that chaos factor. If you have a bunch of weird irregulars clogging up the battlefield who don't necessarily fall into a clear chain of command or understand orders immediately it can create a real problem. It doesn't matter how much firepower you have if it can't be effectively utilized. Yeah, Natarle is 100% not wrong in everything she does. She doesn't really ever do anything (at least in J) that you could call unjustifiable. It's just SRW games are where that sort of orderly thinking gets in the way of everyone teaming up and punching space gods. Onmi posted:I'm interested in how IBO would end in an SRW since its ending is... not a happy one. Once you've given Zambot a happy ending you're capable of anything. Raxivace posted:I'd be curious to see how Rustal and his faction gets handled more than anything. No matter what happens, Rustal has to set himself up to win or it's just WRONG.
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Mar 6, 2018 05:49
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You beat Rustal and his faction up by saving Mika and Space Guts with your army of super robots. And then in the intermission, Rustal is suddenly working with you because you're the winning side. Iok stays dead.
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Mar 6, 2018 06:05
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Ryoga posted:Wake me up when Captain Harlock gets confirmed for the next Carrier only series. Ulysses 31 or bust. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-h7Koco4wnU
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Mar 6, 2018 06:19
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MonsieurChoc posted:Ulysses 31 or bust. The problem there is that you wouldn’t get the Shuki Levi soundtrack so its a bit of a bust.
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Mar 6, 2018 06:42
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ImpAtom posted:I'm guessing it'll be a Miwa-deviation-from-canon situation where you end up having to wreck his poo poo and he's got some absurdly hard-hitting mooks with map attacks to deal with. SRW debuts tend to play things aggressively close to the series though, right?
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Mar 6, 2018 06:49
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ConanThe3rd posted:The problem there is that you wouldn’t get the Shuki Levi soundtrack so its a bit of a bust. That's what the Custom Soundtrack is for!
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Mar 6, 2018 07:07
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Mister Olympus posted:SRW debuts tend to play things aggressively close to the series though, right? Not always. Remember, Baldios ended with the world being flooded thanks to the artificial sun. That's only a bad ending in Z. Shin Mazinger Z ends with the Mikene arriving and defeating Z. No Mikene in Z2.2 and when they appear in Z3 you kick their arses. Code Geass R2 had its ending change if you go down the right path as well. Really, SRW will change a bad ending if need be. While it might play it straight, that doesn't mean you're stuck with how things go at the end, though given Baldios in Z and Code Geass in Z2.2, they might throw that ending in, but it's avoidable.
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Mar 6, 2018 07:26
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I feel like half the people that play srw don't know how srw does series adaptation cause this bad ending stuff comes up everytime
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Mar 6, 2018 13:17
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