NYTimes: An infanticide that no one can see is also going to attract suspicion.

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > NYTimes: An infanticide that no one can see is also going to attract suspicion.

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Pener Kropoopkin: Jan 30, 2013; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
(and can't post for 19 days!)

If a Matt Bruenig article gets editorialized to the point where it has no original parts, is it still the same Matt Bruenig article?

# ? Mar 5, 2018 21:30

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# ? Jun 9, 2024 22:03

1994 Toyota Celica: Sep 11, 2008; by Nyc_Tattoo

Pener Kropoopkin posted:

Well America is the world's only superpower right now, and we're as liberal as an empire's ever been.

not until we let a horse in the senate we aren't

# ? Mar 5, 2018 21:32

GalacticAcid: Apr 8, 2013; NEW YORK VALUES

when you're too radical for the new york times

# ? Mar 5, 2018 21:32

punk rebel ecks: Dec 11, 2010; A shitty post? This calls for a dance of deduction.

Pener Kropoopkin posted:

Well America is the world's only superpower right now, and we're as liberal as an empire's ever been.

I guess for the foreseeable future as well. I mean is China the only country that could obtain superpower status in fifty years?

# ? Mar 5, 2018 21:33

GalacticAcid: Apr 8, 2013; NEW YORK VALUES

god i could see them hiring nathan robinson, which would suck rear end

# ? Mar 5, 2018 21:39

Troy Queef: Jan 12, 2013

GalacticAcid posted:

god i could see them hiring nathan robinson, which would suck rear end

admittedly him having an editor would be good because he has good points hidden in his 10,000 word Current Affairs pieces, but holy poo poo his personality is contrived, annoying, terrible, and another adjective.

but then again this is the NYT, who employs 100 Zios and Lindy West

# ? Mar 5, 2018 21:55

Nebakenezzer: Sep 13, 2005; The Mote in God's Eye

punk rebel ecks posted:

I guess for the foreseeable future as well. I mean is China the only country that could obtain superpower status in fifty years?

IMO China and to a lesser extent India have the economy to do this, but will be beset by such horrific environmental problems that China in particular is likely to be destroyed by them

Though it depends on your def. The superpower thing happened with the polarization of the world behind two different states. China has nukes and a permanent seat on the security counsel, and is one of if not the largest nation on earth by several measures.

# ? Mar 5, 2018 22:04

A Buttery Pastry: Sep 4, 2011; Delicious and Informative!

Pener Kropoopkin posted:

Well America is the world's only superpower right now, and we're as liberal as an empire's ever been.

Which is why its liberals can't be convincingly nationalist, because the world order they champion is internationalist. Well, I suppose if they copied the French example but applied it to the entire would they could, since it'd be a competing inclusive vision of nationalism.

Nebakenezzer posted:

IMO China and to a lesser extent India have the economy to do this, but will be beset by such horrific environmental problems that China in particular is likely to be destroyed by them

China's got issues, but India is set to be hit much harder by climate change. It might not be great to live in China, but its not like countries haven't survived terrible air/water quality before. Meanwhile, disruptions to the food supply are like the number one source of revolutions.

# ? Mar 5, 2018 22:39

GalacticAcid: Apr 8, 2013; NEW YORK VALUES

spitballing here, there's a joke hiding in there somewhere...

# ? Mar 5, 2018 22:40

Nebakenezzer: Sep 13, 2005; The Mote in God's Eye

A Buttery Pastry posted:

China's got issues, but India is set to be hit much harder by climate change. It might not be great to live in China, but its not like countries haven't survived terrible air/water quality before. Meanwhile, disruptions to the food supply are like the number one source of revolutions.

You might be right - climate change in places that have extreme water shortages today is not going to be a fun time. A wise Canadian poet once wrote "without water there is nothing, not even tea." I think both those places are going to learn that the really hard way

# ? Mar 5, 2018 22:49

Tunicate: May 15, 2012

zeal posted:

not until we let a horse in the senate we aren't

he represented Massachusetts from 1985 to 2013

# ? Mar 5, 2018 22:49

1982 Subaru Brat: Feb 2, 2007; by Athanatos

A Buttery Pastry posted:

Which is why its liberals can't be convincingly nationalist, because the world order they champion is internationalist. Well, I suppose if they copied the French example but applied it to the entire would they could, since it'd be a competing inclusive vision of nationalism.

This is neoconservatism in a nutshell -- remove all socialist and/or totalitarian power by force, under the assumption that a market-friendly secular atomized society is what everyone basically wants.

Curiously, the Iraqis didn't agree.

# ? Mar 5, 2018 23:34

Pener Kropoopkin: Jan 30, 2013; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
(and can't post for 19 days!)

A Buttery Pastry posted:

Which is why its liberals can't be convincingly nationalist, because the world order they champion is internationalist. Well, I suppose if they copied the French example but applied it to the entire would they could, since it'd be a competing inclusive vision of nationalism.

America generally acts as if everyone is basically exactly like us anyways. I�d also argue that Republicans already fit the bill for �liberal nationalists�, and that even the internationalist form in neoconservatives visualize a world where every country is basically just like America

the really insidious thing about nationalism is that when you assume your culture is already the best, then you can�t help but try to transform everything you control into another version of yourself. France and Britain for instance still control overseas territories which are considered integral parts of the nation.

a global order that transcends nationalism was a dialectical process of the Cold War, but without any great Other for the capitalist world to compete against the field is open for liberal nationalism to make a comeback.

# ? Mar 5, 2018 23:36

punk rebel ecks: Dec 11, 2010; A shitty post? This calls for a dance of deduction.

What about Brasil being a world power?

# ? Mar 6, 2018 00:30

Grand Prize Winner: Feb 19, 2007

Pener Kropoopkin posted:

You could argue the British were fairly liberal too, by deed if not tradition or the letter of the law.

How many Indians and Irish must starve before a state is properly liberal

# ? Mar 6, 2018 00:40

reignonyourparade: Nov 15, 2012

Grand Prize Winner posted:

How many Indians and Irish must starve before a state is properly liberal

those indians and irish not starving would have Interfered With The Free Market, extremely liberal

# ? Mar 6, 2018 00:44

Communist Thoughts: Jan 7, 2008; Our war against free speech cannot end until we silence this bronze beast!

id say america is about as bad as the british empire, which is to say, very bad indeed

both intentionally shoot and starve lots of peeps

both are inherently built on white supremacy, huge-scale looting and violence

in fact u could even say the american hegemony is explicitely just a continuation/spin-off of the british empire

:thunk:

# ? Mar 6, 2018 01:04

H.P. Hovercraft: Jan 12, 2004; one thing a computer can do that most humans can't is be sealed up in a cardboard box and sit in a warehouse; Slippery Tilde

finally a voice from the left

https://twitter.com/shujaxhaider/status/970777670643527680

# ? Mar 6, 2018 01:19

Wraith of J.O.I.: Jan 25, 2012

bari furiously dialing up this person after seeing this to write a column

https://twitter.com/davidklion/status/970798784707026946

# ? Mar 6, 2018 01:34

LinYutang: Oct 12, 2016; NEOLIBERAL SHITPOSTER

VOTE BLUE NO MATTER WHO!!!

Wraith of J.O.I. posted:

bari furiously dialing up this person after seeing this to write a column

https://twitter.com/davidklion/status/970798784707026946

lol a "scam" this is explicitly what it's been about since forever. nice take twitter guy

# ? Mar 6, 2018 02:33

Badger of Basra: Jul 26, 2007

punk rebel ecks posted:

What about Brasil being a world power?

lmbo

# ? Mar 6, 2018 02:41

Sheng-Ji Yang: Mar 5, 2014

Wraith of J.O.I. posted:

results from kevin dumb�s poll

https://twitter.com/kdrum/status/970632337158541313

didnt include felix, abstained

# ? Mar 6, 2018 03:00

Shear Modulus: Jun 9, 2010

jeet heer lmao

# ? Mar 6, 2018 03:19

an actual dog: Nov 18, 2014

Troy Queef posted:

admittedly him having an editor would be good because he has good points hidden in his 10,000 word Current Affairs pieces, but holy poo poo his personality is contrived, annoying, terrible, and another adjective.

but then again this is the NYT, who employs 100 Zios and Lindy West

too bad his editor at nyt would be terrible

# ? Mar 6, 2018 03:24

H.P. Hovercraft: Jan 12, 2004; one thing a computer can do that most humans can't is be sealed up in a cardboard box and sit in a warehouse; Slippery Tilde

Shear Modulus posted:

jeet heer lmao

# ? Mar 6, 2018 03:25

ate shit on live tv: Feb 15, 2004; by Azathoth

LinYutang posted:

lol a "scam" this is explicitly what it's been about since forever. nice take twitter guy

Here is an exhaustive list of zionists that would have israel withdraw from the west bank if they hadn't fallen for the "scam":

# ? Mar 6, 2018 03:31

icantfindaname: Jul 1, 2008

hi

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/05/world/middleeast/saudi-women-drivers.html

quote:

�Oh My God� Turns to �Yay Me� as Saudi Women Practice Driving

By BEN HUBBARDMARCH 5, 2018

JIDDA, Saudi Arabia � �O.K. Come drive now,� said the trainer.

�Oh my God,� the architecture student replied.

She climbed into the driver�s seat, put on her seatbelt, found the pedals, released the hand brake and put the car into drive. Then she took a deep breath, eased her foot off the brake and began doing, for the first time, what women will soon be doing all over Saudi Arabia: driving.

�Is this O.K.?� the student, Rahaf Alzahrani, 21, asked nervously as she inched along.

�Yes. It�s O.K.,� the instructor said.

Three and a half months remain before the date when the rulers of this ultraconservative kingdom have promised to lift the longstanding ban on women driving, and many here are already planning for what is sure to be a major change in Saudi society.

Women�s universities have announced that they plan to open driving schools, and car companies have shifted their ads, seeking to profit from the anticipated flood of new drivers � and car buyers � in this country of 32 million.

Uber is planning to recruit women to train women who aspire to be Uber drivers, and some dealerships have already set aside shopping hours for women. Ford, Nissan, Jaguar and even Coca-Cola have sought to capitalize on the buzz around women sliding into the driver�s seat.
Continue reading the main story

Saudi women are approaching the change with an often complicated mix of enthusiasm and apprehension, as was tangible on Monday on the campus of Effat University in this Red Sea port city, where a number of young women piloted cars for the first time.

The university may later open a driving school for women, administrators said, but it is waiting for the government to issue the proper regulations. So the course was a more of a workshop offered by the Ford Motor Company Fund that sought to improve drivers� safety. Since Saudi Arabia does not yet issue licenses to women, the course was aimed at women who had no experience being in charge of cars.

About 15 female students gathered in a classroom for the start of one workshop. They all wore abayas, the baggy gowns Saudi women wear to hide their forms in public. Most had their hair covered and a few covered their faces, too. Some wore tennis shoes and jeans underneath and lugged backpack and handbags.

The workshop began with a brief talk about road safety, car accidents and the huge number of them caused by texting at the wheel. Then the women broke up for more hands-on experiences.

In an outdoor courtyard, they donned goggles meant to simulate impaired vision from medication, drowsiness or drunkenness, which is not usually a problem, since alcohol is banned in the kingdom. Then they had to pilot a small wheel on the end of a pole across a map on the ground while paying attention to streets, stop signs and pedestrians.

But the real action was in an enclosed parking lot nearby, where there were real cars.

Groups of women sat in the cars while instructors explained their features: the gear shift, the gas and brake pedals, the temperature gauge, the cruise-control buttons, the turn signals and windshield wipers. At one point, a student sitting in a driver�s seat sprayed the windshield, making all of the other women laugh.

Finally, the instructor told the woman to put her foot on the brake and push the ignition button. The car roared to life and a smile bloomed on her face.

�All right!� she said, and the other women clapped.

It is hard to overstate how much the right to drive will change the lives of Saudi women. Women were long kept out of public life in Saudi Arabia, segregated from men in most settings, limited to a small number of professions or encouraged to stay home, and forced to rely on private drivers or male relatives to pilot them around.

But much has changed for Saudi women in recent years as they have been allowed to work in new fields and appointed to high-profile positions, and have graduated in ever-increasing numbers from universities. Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, the kingdom�s de facto ruler, has spoken of the importance of increasing women�s role in the work force as part of his effort to diversify the economy away from oil.

The women at the workshop all approved of having the right to drive, and some had already set their sights on specific cars. One wanted an Audi.

�It�s a strong car,� she said.

Another wanted a Mercedes, �like my dad.�

Yet another said she would send her Indian driver home and drive his car.

They said being able to drive would decrease their reliance on those who now have to ferry them around, while putting them in charge of their own schedules.

�I don�t want to drive just to drive,� said Rehab Alhuwaider, 21. �I want to be able to do my daily routine.�

She said she hated it when she wanted to go to the gym in the morning and had to wait for someone to drop her off. The best part of driving, she said, would be �feeling more freedom.�

But some were not sure they were ready to face Saudi Arabia�s often ferocious traffic, or male drivers who have no experience interacting with women on the roads.

Raneem Modaress, 22, said she had wanted to drive before a car she was riding in got hit a month ago, leaving her with bad bruises up and down her side.

�It was terrible,� she said.

Now she plans to wait to see how it goes for other women before getting her own license.

The workshop concluded with what remains a rare opportunity for women in Saudi Arabia: the chance to drive a car through a course of cones in a parking lot.

Before she got her shot behind the wheel, Ms. Alzahrani, the architecture student, said she had driven Jet Skis in the Red Sea and motorcycles in the desert, but never cars. The thought of doing so made her nervous.

�I don�t know where the brake is and where the gas is,� she said.

She started slowly, then rounded the first curve, then the second. She approached a stop sign and hit the brake too hard, causing the other passengers to jolt forward. She laughed nervously and then went forward again before reaching the end and stopping with a slightly lighter jolt.

�Praise God for your safety,� the instructor said.

�Yay me!� she said.

The drive had taken only a few minutes, but it had changed her outlook on the whole endeavor.

�It was so amazing. I loved it,� she said. �It felt good to be behind the wheel.�

# ? Mar 6, 2018 03:45

icantfindaname: Jul 1, 2008

Zoran posted:

I want the failing new york times to hire Matt Bruenig just to see all the twitter dipshits� heads pop

Corey Robin deserves the job, he's really great. Hayes is the only one with enough establishment prestige to ever get it though. Bruenig would produce the best furious lib reaction

# ? Mar 6, 2018 03:51

Ytlaya: Nov 13, 2005

icantfindaname posted:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/05/world/middleeast/saudi-women-drivers.html

quote:

Another wanted a Mercedes, �like my dad.�

Yet another said she would send her Indian driver home and drive his car.

Am I correct in assuming most of these women are probably from rich families? My gut instinct is that this is the sort of article where most of the people interviewed/profiled are from the upper class.

Sheng-Ji Yang posted:

didnt include felix, abstained

If you combine Elizabeth and Matt Bruenig's votes they win!

# ? Mar 6, 2018 03:58

the bitcoin of weed: Nov 1, 2014

Ytlaya posted:

Am I correct in assuming most of these women are probably from rich families? My gut instinct is that this is the sort of article where most of the people interviewed/profiled are from the upper class.

the underclass in saudi arabia are largely migrant slaves (and women without male benefactors, who I'm sure are downright thrilled that they can now drive but not have actual rights) so this is a fair bet

# ? Mar 6, 2018 04:04

Wraith of J.O.I.: Jan 25, 2012

liz bruenig is already a columnist at wapo

best of the options in the poll imo would be brie joy and ryan cooper

# ? Mar 6, 2018 04:16

Shear Modulus: Jun 9, 2010

corey robin, dean baker and robert reich are of course far too qualified to get a job as a nyt columnist. they already made the mistake of hiring an academic who can authoritatively draw on academic economics and rebuke heritage and brookings claptrap once, and they're not making that mistake again

# ? Mar 6, 2018 04:36

Wraith of J.O.I.: Jan 25, 2012

disrupting a speech = burning people at the stake

https://twitter.com/bariweiss/status/970777445744947200

# ? Mar 6, 2018 07:48

A Buttery Pastry: Sep 4, 2011; Delicious and Informative!

Pener Kropoopkin posted:

America generally acts as if everyone is basically exactly like us anyways. I�d also argue that Republicans already fit the bill for �liberal nationalists�, and that even the internationalist form in neoconservatives visualize a world where every country is basically just like America

1982 Subaru Brat posted:

This is neoconservatism in a nutshell -- remove all socialist and/or totalitarian power by force, under the assumption that a market-friendly secular atomized society is what everyone basically wants.

Huh, didn't think of it like that, but that's a fair point. A bit lacking on the complete homogenization front, compared to the French example, but they do push the non-region specific characteristics of American culture pretty heavily - which makes sense when you compare American history to French. So, I guess the answer is; these liberals longing for nationalism should just join the Republican party and support the neocon wing, since it has everything they want.

# ? Mar 6, 2018 08:51

KomradeX: Oct 29, 2011

A Buttery Pastry posted:

Huh, didn't think of it like that, but that's a fair point. A bit lacking on the complete homogenization front, compared to the French example, but they do push the non-region specific characteristics of American culture pretty heavily - which makes sense when you compare American history to French. So, I guess the answer is; these liberals longing for nationalism should just join the Republican party and support the neocon wing, since it has everything they want.

Isn't that what the Democratic leadership did anyway

# ? Mar 6, 2018 11:29

Jerry Manderbilt: May 31, 2012; No matter how much paperwork I process, it never goes away. It only increases.

imagine bari weiss trying to survive the world as someone who isn't a white woman if she thinks no-platforming is as bad as burning someone to death

# ? Mar 6, 2018 13:45

Communist Thoughts: Jan 7, 2008; Our war against free speech cannot end until we silence this bronze beast!

the whole "liberal free markets" thing is just code for smashing up a country and robbing it, so not particularly different from the last few thousand years of imperialism
they actually don't care/want, say, iran to become like the US, they want it's institutions to be so weak it can't stand in the way of corporate exploitation and asset stripping (wait actually that would make it more like the US)

that the propaganda portrays this as a modernising, civilising effort is also not remotely new

# ? Mar 6, 2018 14:33

Jose: Jul 24, 2007; Adrian Chiles is a broadcaster and writer

https://twitter.com/BenjySarlin/status/971017085076852736

# ? Mar 6, 2018 14:39

Wraith of J.O.I.: Jan 25, 2012

patiently awaiting bari�s response to this

https://twitter.com/annamerlan/status/971003484316332033

# ? Mar 6, 2018 16:15

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# ? Jun 9, 2024 22:03

H.P. Hovercraft: Jan 12, 2004; one thing a computer can do that most humans can't is be sealed up in a cardboard box and sit in a warehouse; Slippery Tilde

lol

https://twitter.com/cushbomb/status/971034390317928451

# ? Mar 6, 2018 18:20

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > NYTimes: An infanticide that no one can see is also going to attract suspicion.

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