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And not five minutes later kills a room full of children.
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Mar 7, 2018 11:55
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Captain Splendid posted:And not five minutes later kills a room full of children. children aren't people
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Mar 7, 2018 11:56
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Captain Splendid posted:And not five minutes later kills a room full of children. Let's not kid ourselves about what the leading the Clone Wars entailed for the Jedi. The only difference at that point was probably that he didn't order someone else to do it for him.
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Mar 7, 2018 15:54
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Hodgepodge posted:Let's not kid ourselves about what the leading the Clone Wars entailed for the Jedi. The only difference at that point was probably that he didn't order someone else to do it for him. The point was that the comment "anakin is literally the one jedi who is like 'yo killing people is wrong'" is weird when he kills a bunch of kids minutes later.
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Mar 7, 2018 15:56
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He also kills a lot of people in the second movie. And the first movie.
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Mar 7, 2018 16:21
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I'll try spinning *Destroys entire trade federation ship*
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Mar 7, 2018 16:34
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moist turtleneck posted:I'll try spinning That was the Force, not Anakid
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Mar 7, 2018 16:53
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UmOk posted:That was the Force, not Anakid Same thing.
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Mar 7, 2018 16:54
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Milky Moor posted:anakin is literally the one jedi who is like 'yo killing people is wrong' Unless they're Tusken Raiders. Then he'll kill them all. The women and children too.
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Mar 7, 2018 21:19
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AdjectiveNoun posted:Unless they're Tusken Raiders. Then he'll kill them all. The women and children too. He felt bad about it, though. Padme said it's okay.
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Mar 7, 2018 21:22
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He knows that killing people is wrong but he does it anyway. He looks around and sees nobody else is troubled by all the murder. His issues deepen and complect.
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Mar 7, 2018 22:16
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I liked the deleted scene of Finn and Phasma's showdown much better than the release version. https://youtu.be/HjoJqZDjxgI?t=1m38s
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Mar 7, 2018 23:20
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Oh my God, that’s so much better! Why the gently caress wasn’t that in the movie? Goddamnit Kathleen Kennedy. Goddamnit Rian Johnson.
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Mar 8, 2018 03:54
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I liked the dialogue but Phasma's quick-draw looked like something out of a loving anime
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Mar 8, 2018 05:11
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What is the deal with Phasma? She has cool armor and is apparently really important to Finn's past, but I feel like she never got enough screen time to actually be worthwhile as a character. I'd love to see more of her in the movies, but as it is she just feels like a wasted opportunity.
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Mar 8, 2018 05:14
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Dirk the Average posted:What is the deal with Phasma? She has cool armor and is apparently really important to Finn's past, but I feel like she never got enough screen time to actually be worthwhile as a character. I'd love to see more of her in the movies, but as it is she just feels like a wasted opportunity. She's the new Boba Fett.
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Mar 8, 2018 05:18
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euphronius posted:He also kills a lot of people in the second movie. Also, he only didn't want him dead so he could use him to save Padme. Dirk the Average posted:What is the deal with Phasma? She has cool armor and is apparently really important to Finn's past, but I feel like she never got enough screen time to actually be worthwhile as a character. I'd love to see more of her in the movies, but as it is she just feels like a wasted opportunity. She was originally a dude who was a background character and did piss all. Then online dorks complained that the evil, genocidal, racist, totalitarian space Nazis didn't have any chicks in their ranks.
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Mar 8, 2018 06:23
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504 posted:Also, he only didn't want him dead so he could use him to save Padme. tbf, the Imperials were always too much of a sausage-fest to be accurate portrayals of the actual Nazis, who loved to surround themselves with German women.
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Mar 8, 2018 06:33
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Gonz posted:Oh my God, that’s so much better! Why the gently caress wasn’t that in the movie? Goddamnit Kathleen Kennedy. Goddamnit Rian Johnson. None of that casino time was cut-able. 
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Mar 8, 2018 06:47
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504 posted:Also, he only didn't want him dead so he could use him to save Padme. Why the gently caress didn't the Sequel Trilogy and Rogue One give the Empire more aliens? The only reason they didn't have them before was because that poo poo is way more expensive than british people. That excuse no longer flies and we need more aliens goddammit.
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Mar 8, 2018 07:40
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Cross-Section posted:I liked the dialogue but Phasma's quick-draw looked like something out of a loving anime Yeah, the idea of the scene is nice but the execution is really loving bad, so it makes sense they cut it.
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Mar 8, 2018 07:45
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MrJacobs posted:Why the gently caress didn't the Sequel Trilogy and Rogue One give the Empire more aliens? The only reason they didn't have them before was because that poo poo is way more expensive than british people. That excuse no longer flies and we need more aliens goddammit. The Empire is human-supremacist.
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Mar 8, 2018 07:49
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Really, the Resistance should have been full of aliens, but no, everyone was a human except the token alien who boosts Poe's ego. Last Jedi did everything it could to make me hate the Resistance, and succeeded.
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Mar 8, 2018 07:55
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Bongo Bill posted:The Empire is human-supremacist. only because it was expensive in the 80s. They got rid of the EU, why not get rid of the whole human supremacist bullshit and throw some evil wookies and ithorians and poo poo into the empire.
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Mar 8, 2018 08:03
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"Human supremacist" is a fan theory. It's an after-the-fact explanation to try to cover for the fact that the Empire is hollow. A Jacobin writer whose memory has been condemned posted:For instance: what, exactly, is the Galactic Empire? It’s strange: something that’s fully omnipresent, but also nowhere to be found. The Empire rules the entire galaxy, but all we see are border zones: corrupt, bandit-strewn scrubworlds; autonomous mining colonies; planets inhabited only by storms and monsters; bucolic pre-agricultural fantasies. There are warships and soldiers, thousands even, but that only proves the existence of a border, not anything on the other side. The Empire is all hollow inside, it’s nothing more than its own border. If you have shipyards, why build your weapons platform off the forest moon of Endor?...
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Mar 8, 2018 08:06
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The Empire is shown employing nearly only humans despite there being plenty of aliens in the galaxy, Imperial officials are depicted saying and doing racist things against nonhumans, and they are coded to resemble historical supremacist entities. In what sense are they not human supremacist? Are those observations less real than what may have appeared in hypothetical revisionist sequels, or off-screen?
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Mar 8, 2018 08:15
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Bongo Bill posted:The Empire is shown employing nearly only humans despite there being plenty of aliens in the galaxy, Imperial officials are depicted saying and doing racist things against nonhumans, and they are coded to resemble historical supremacist entities. In what sense are they not human supremacist? Are those observations less real than what may have appeared in hypothetical revisionist sequels, or off-screen? Thrawn. Also the senate cannot be human-centric due to the need to keep the worlds in-line before the death star. The sheer scope of the senate in the prequels shows that a human centric empire would have issues running everything while keeping the senate.
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Mar 8, 2018 08:16
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MrJacobs posted:Thrawn. Also the senate cannot be human-centric due to the need to keep the worlds in-line before the death star. The sheer scope of the senate in the prequels shows that a human centric empire would have issues running everything while keeping the senate. Human supremacist does not mean exclusively human, any more than white supremacist means exclusively white. The films show that the Death Star was constructed precisely so that the Senate (which was indeed more diverse) could be abolished.
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Mar 8, 2018 08:21
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OhFunny posted:I liked the deleted scene of Finn and Phasma's showdown much better than the release version. What makes this worse is that is the sum total of all of Finn's character development. And they left it on the loving cutting room floor. Fire all of Disney into the sun, give everything back to George Lucas and start all over again.
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Mar 8, 2018 08:25
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Bongo Bill posted:The Empire is shown employing nearly only humans despite there being plenty of aliens in the galaxy, Imperial officials are depicted saying and doing racist things against nonhumans, and they are coded to resemble historical supremacist entities. In what sense are they not human supremacist? Are those observations less real than what may have appeared in hypothetical revisionist sequels, or off-screen? This relies on an absurdly literalist reading where there's a hard biological distinction between "human" and "alien" in Star Wars, and bluntly using alien-ness as a consistent signifier of ethnicity. In reality, the words "human" and "alien" are not even mentioned in scripts. The Empire is led by an inhuman cyborg and a Satanic alien wizard, not racist demagogues. They are no more "human supremacist" than the Rebels. The world of Star Wars is hollow and broken, portraying no consistent ideologies (fascists are fighting for modernity, aristocrats and theocrats are fighting for democracy). The only racism is against robots. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 08:31 on Mar 8, 2018 |
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Mar 8, 2018 08:28
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Are you, as a viewer, unable to distinguish human characters from non-human characters, in the absence of dialog indicating them as such?
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Mar 8, 2018 08:31
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Bongo Bill posted:Are you, as a viewer, unable to distinguish human characters from non-human characters, in the absence of dialog indicating them as such? You're arguing that "human vs non-human" in Star Wars is a binary in the manner of "white vs non-white" - human-ness constitutes a sort of hegemony comparable to white supremacy in real life. But human-ness and alien-ness in Star Wars are too broad as signifiers to stand for races or ethnicities. The Empire in Star Wars is led by visibly non-human beings (Darth Vader and the Emperor). It actively fashions itself as non-human with its ghostly robotic footsoldiers. Racial supremacism involves people being divided against each other for the benefit of ruling classes. The people do not exist under the Empire's rule, there are only border zones and their parochial inhabitants. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 08:52 on Mar 8, 2018 |
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Mar 8, 2018 08:43
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Freakazoid_ posted:What makes this worse is that is the sum total of all of Finn's character development. Did Disney ask them to cut the scene? 
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Mar 8, 2018 09:17
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The Emperor is human. His second-in-command, Tarkin, is human. Tarkin's subordinates are all human. Darth Vader is an injured human, although his status as a cyborg is not without a great deal of thematic significance. We have a movie depicting planets inhabited by heterogeneous peoples, but occupied by a force consisting of humans, to the point that any character less than wholly human is a rarity who stands out. Some later films show a different time period in the setting, in which the rulers of planets were not basically all humans, and then depicts a change in government. If there's some other way I can interpret this costuming decision, I'd like to know what it is. On the other hand, if you think that it's incoherent, I don't find what you've said so far convincing simply on the basis of some aspects of the setting being communicated through expository dialog rather than being used as a location for action.
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Mar 8, 2018 09:25
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Freakazoid_ posted:What makes this worse is that is the sum total of all of Finn's character development. While the talky parts of the scene were indeed better, the action part was really bad. Plasma's quickdraw is really awkwardly filmed and Finn blasting her off like Team Rocket looked downright stupid. I suppose we need someone to make a fan-edit that dubs the deleted scene dialogue over the theatrical visuals.
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Mar 8, 2018 09:27
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Bongo Bill posted:The Emperor is human. The Emperor is a visibly inhuman, demonic wizard. He seems human, but when his evil is revealed, he turns into a hideous monster. The irony is that you're basically arguing for racial essentialism, with humanity and alien-ness being fixed traits instead of something fluid and changing. And think about what this means for the movies themselves: if discrimination against aliens in favour of humans is human supremacism, then the movies themselves are human supremacist by consistently focusing on conventional humans. The sequel movies make Star Wars more human supremacist than ever before. This is not to say racism doesn't exist in Star Wars, but it's always directed at specific groups rather than "aliens". This is why your definition of human supremacism ignores droids ("any character less than wholly human is a rarity who stands out" - how do C3PO and R2D2 fit into this?), since that would mean that the Empire is no more human (i.e., non-droid) supremacist than the Rebels. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 09:46 on Mar 8, 2018 |
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Mar 8, 2018 09:42
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The thing that's surprised me most about the Disney-era is how few aliens show up in Star Wars in general. For all the talk of how inclusive the Rebel Alliance is V the Empire, there wasn't one in the whole main Rogue One lineup. And the only one really worth mentioning in the ST is Maz, and she's just sort of alone doing her own thing. And again, they've put Thrawn into primary canon now. I don't think the old fan ideas of the Empire and Rebels in regard to alien rights and such really hold much water anymore. They only really existed because we saw a grand total of two aliens on the Rebel side and a grand total of none on the Imperial side, with the idea being it would've been 'too expensive' to have more. But now, with Disney throwing ludicrous amounts of money around...
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Mar 8, 2018 10:01
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Saws partisans were full of freaky aliens. Space monkey machine gunned an atat. Pao led an assault team on scarif. The rebel fleet is famously mon cal. The battle of endor depicted a multi racial & cultural rebel alliance taking on an entirely white male empire. They even got indigenous help from the ewoks. Thrawn is brought to the emperor like a pet and allowed to become an officer because he agrees to do whatever sheev wants. He is the only alien that is present in the imperial ranks. And if you really wanna count thrawn you need to count the rest of star wars rebels which is a bunch of aliens fighting human imperials!
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Mar 8, 2018 10:09
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Oh. So the message then is that the aliens can fight and die for the Rebels but not be the A-Listers. Even the droids get better treatment than that. Kind of a weird message to send but okay.
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Mar 8, 2018 10:14
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The obvious thing to note is that the Rebels are diverse, but they're not actually fighting for equality. They're led by aristocrats who want to go back to Senatorial and Jedi rule. They're multicultural, but they don't care about slavery.
BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 10:23 on Mar 8, 2018 |
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Mar 8, 2018 10:18
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