|
Relax Or DIE posted:With how Mystic Quest is simple (but good) and the changes to make ff2/4 easier, did they have any solid reason to believe western gamers would find the games too hard or was it just some weird nonsense they decided on their own. It was a decision with no basis in reality considering that western RPGs at the time included games like Bard's Tale, Wizardry, Ultima, and the SSI Gold Box AD&D games. All of which were vastly more difficult than anything Squaresoft had ever developed up to that point, or since then TBH because some of those goldbox games had some seriously bullshit fights in them and Bard's Tale 3 is an rear end in a top hat of a game even if you're abusing it to make super powered god-tier casters by job swapping them every half dozen levels for a few hours so they end up with maxxed stats. Gologle posted:There is actually a reason to this. Remember that Dissidia is the prequel to FF1? Well, in Dissidia there are these things called manikins, which I believe were originally said to be created by the bad guys in the original Dissidia game but in the sequel prequel Duodecim was revealed to actually be failed crystal clones of the characters to fight in the eternal war that Cid and Shinryu put together to power up Garland-Chaos and turn him into the ultimate life form, all hail shadow. The manikins didn't work out so Cid threw all of them into a pocket dimension and he and Shinryu decided to just summon the real thing from across the universe. Well, there was exactly ONE successful manikin, one successful clone of someone that Cid overlooked. That clone was of Cid himself, and lacked a name, so came to be known as the Warrior of Light. Actually, in the cycle that he was discovered, when Prishe found him originally and brought him into Cosmos' service, she gave him a name, that name presumably being Cid, but when that cycle was wiped and Prishe was dumped out of the eternal murder war he forgot the name she gave him and so he was just called Warrior of Light. Since WoL is Cid's clone, it makes sense he would be called Cid. It also explains why WoL is so fanatically devoted to Cosmos, because Cosmos is a clone of Cid's dead wife and Chaos' pseudo mother/lover. Square's devs have access to some amazing drugs.
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2018 15:20
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 23, 2024 15:33 |
|
|
Barudak posted:That prompt just makes it easier, gives you a reward. You can link and cross strike other times That's handy, I should probably try to actually do that... it's a pity that there aren't more situations where it's viable, watching the entire group team up to beat the hell out of some random monster never stops being satisfying.
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2018 17:13
|
|
|
ff12 doesnt seem as bad as i thought it would be 10 hours in (it and the unfinished 15 are the last mainline titles i need to play). though a little more thought could have gone into the gambit system, like one where stealing is done until a target has no items rather than the hp threshold, which seems the most useful way to do it on your primary character.
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2018 17:25
|
|
|
Microcline posted:I kind of want the series to revisit the idea of equipping characters with unique summon-themed ability sets. Basically treat the idea like FFV treated jobs instead of being relatively meaningless like the espers in FFIV or a design clusterfuck like the junction system in FFVIII. Yeah, I'd really enjoy that kind of thing. I actually thought FFVIII's junction system was a really cool idea with awful execution. Ultimately the way the game was designed, which individual summon you'd junctioned on to a given character didn't matter all that much--it was more about the sorta generic passive skills they could learn, and unlocking the ability to junction spells to your stats. Something where they're treated more like job classes would be really interesting. Maybe combine it with FFX-2’s fast paced ATB and in-battle job switching. I realize I'm kind of asking for Final Fantasy: Persona Edition but that's fine by me. Harrow fucked around with this message at 17:29 on Mar 9, 2018 |
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2018 17:27
|
|
|
Relin posted:ff12 doesnt seem as bad as i thought it would be 10 hours in (it and the unfinished 15 are the last mainline titles i need to play). though a little more thought could have gone into the gambit system, like one where stealing is done until a target has no items rather than the hp threshold, which seems the most useful way to do it on your primary character. Dungeon design falls into a crater at the end but if your in this deep and ok youll be fine. Well until the chop “mini-game”
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2018 17:28
|
|
|
Yeah, 12 gets worse and worse over the course of the game.
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2018 17:41
|
|
|
12 gets better and better as you get access to optional dungeons and secret boss fights
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2018 17:42
|
|
|
i had heard the director left mid development which hosed up the rest of the game. similar to how ff13 was passed around like some trollop to a bunch of directors
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2018 17:43
|
|
|
WaltherFeng posted:12 gets better and better as you get access to optional dungeons and secret boss fights I love the Necrohol and how the party AI won't avoid traps even if they're revealed
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2018 17:47
|
|
|
It's dumb but also you can render the whole thing moot by setting up a gambit to cast Float
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2018 17:59
|
|
|
Barudak posted:Dungeon design falls into a crater at the end but if your in this deep and ok youll be fine. In Zodiac you only need 3 chops and they're sitting right there, unless you want to chase a chocobo later. corn in the bible posted:I love the Necrohol and how the party AI won't avoid traps even if they're revealed I love how the traps are laid so that everyone explodes as soon as you zone in.
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2018 18:22
|
|
|
Harrow posted:Yeah, I'd really enjoy that kind of thing. The ability to fully customize characters as you need is the strength of systems like Materia and Junctions, and walking it back to a job system just gets rid of options.
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2018 18:33
|
|
|
Relin posted:i had heard the director left mid development which hosed up the rest of the game. similar to how ff13 was passed around like some trollop to a bunch of directors Uh, what? 13 was a development mess, but it was a Toriyama gig all the way through. In fact, Toriyama was somehow the only guy in the past decade to actually ship his own game.
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2018 18:51
|
|
|
ACES CURE PLANES posted:The ability to fully customize characters as you need is the strength of systems like Materia and Junctions, and walking it back to a job system just gets rid of options. Well, I don't necessarily mean that it should 100% be a job system necessarily. Like I wouldn't necessarily want Character A with Ifrit junctioned to be identical to Character B with Ifrit junctioned, if that makes sense. I'm thinking something where characters have base stats and base abilities like they do in FFVI, and whatever their active summon is gives them bonus stats and access to extra abilities or magic as long as that summon is their active one. Maybe they can have multiple summons active at the same time, or have multiple equipped and switch them in-combat like personas, either one would be kind of neat. I'm generally biased against totally wide-open customization systems, though. I don't really find systems like FFVII's or VIII's all that interesting because they're just too granular for me to feel like any individual decision means much. Ultimately it's just so wide open and it's so easy for characters to be really versatile that there isn't much of a reason not to just make everyone into basically the same super-soldier setup, y'know? Give me a strong reason to differentiate my characters. It's the same reason I don't really like the original license board in FFXII (and while I like the job system versions better, it's a really imperfect and slapdash solution and I'd have preferred something like a different license board that just makes more use of the "only one character can grab this license" locked-off islands instead).
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2018 18:53
|
|
|
The Chops stuff is such a weird inclusion in FF12. The minigame itself is inoffensive but I'm not sure it adds anything really either.
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2018 18:56
|
|
|
Artix posted:Uh, what? 13 was a development mess, but it was a Toriyama gig all the way through. In fact, Toriyama was somehow the only guy in the past decade to actually ship his own game. Amazing what love for a 2d woman can compel one to complete.
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2018 18:56
|
|
|
I much prefer wide open customization systems so that I can use the characters I like and not have to feel like I'm missing something important in combat. Like to use Tales as an example, I'd rather not have to use a character like Cheria, but mechanics make that tricky.
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2018 19:00
|
|
|
I think wide-open customization can be pretty fun, but I want some reason to specialize the characters in the process, rather than the sort of FFVI-VIII style of every character just sort of dissolving into the same pile of stats and abilities by mid-game. That's one reason I like job systems so much (specifically, where you can mix-and-match jobs and change jobs, not FFXII's "pick once and never change" style). If FFXII had put more opportunities to specialize in the original license board I think it would've been perfect. I'm thinking things like locking away access to certain classes of high-level spells and equipment behind Quickening licenses. Since every character can only ever take three, and each one can only ever be taken by one character, that means that you're going to necessarily end up with specialized characters. Then have Esper licenses unlock alternate paths to those abilities so that you can start to add some versatility by mid-game, though not enough to turn everyone into "ultimate melee attacker + all the useful spells" like you can in the standard version of FFXII. Harrow fucked around with this message at 19:11 on Mar 9, 2018 |
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2018 19:09
|
|
|
Artix posted:Uh, what? 13 was a development mess, but it was a Toriyama gig all the way through. In fact, Toriyama was somehow the only guy in the past decade to actually ship his own game. Yeah the thing that hosed 13 was they started the cutscene creation with a draft script and the story clearly changed huge amount (Cid and his resistance friend are weirdly focused on in cutscenes but don't exist in the normal narrative) but the cutscenes were done so they had to kind of write around them cause those things cost a gorillan dollars.
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2018 19:11
|
|
|
Artix posted:Uh, what? 13 was a development mess, but it was a Toriyama gig all the way through. In fact, Toriyama was somehow the only guy in the past decade to actually ship his own game. that's what i recalled reading *shrug*
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2018 19:11
|
|
|
ZenMasterBullshit posted:Yeah the thing that hosed 13 was they started the cutscene creation with a draft script and the story clearly changed huge amount (Cid and his resistance friend are weirdly focused on in cutscenes but don't exist in the normal narrative) but the cutscenes were done so they had to kind of write around them cause those things cost a gorillan dollars. Hasn't that ended up happening in like half of the final fantasies since they started doing CG cutscenes?
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2018 20:50
|
|
|
Wasn't the cutscene fuckery in FF13 so bad it resulted in a character who died to suddenly be alive and well in a future cutscene?
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2018 21:44
|
|
|
MikeJF posted:Hasn't that ended up happening in like half of the final fantasies since they started doing CG cutscenes? 13 is the only really notable one actually. None of the games since minus 14 1.0 have been quite the clusterfuck of planning 13 was. And with 14 being an mmo the pre-rendered cutscenes other than the one going from 1.23->2.0 are mostly just trailers. (Actually this kinda did happen with one plot line between 2.0 and heavensward getting handwaved in a weird way but I think that was voice acting not fmv) With FFXV any FMVs from before 2013 got scrapped and Tabata then locked in the new modified story in 2014 when kingsglaive started production. The game proper has very little prerendered content of its own so it was fairly easy for them to change story on the fly. Leal posted:Wasn't the cutscene fuckery in FF13 so bad it resulted in a character who died to suddenly be alive and well in a future cutscene? Yeah it was pretty bad. Lightning also has this device she uses in cutscenes to break gravity and it breaks/get fixed right after or before cutscenes where it's used. Ohtsam fucked around with this message at 21:49 on Mar 9, 2018 |
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2018 21:46
|
|
|
Cid dies about 2/3rd through the game. He is suddenly alive again with no explanation until you unlock some codex entries about 4/5 of the way through the game only to immediately die in the same cutscene. Its phenomenal.
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2018 21:53
|
|
|
Barudak posted:Cid dies about 2/3rd through the game. He is suddenly alive again with no explanation until you unlock some codex entries about 4/5 of the way through the game only to immediately die in the same cutscene.
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2018 22:38
|
|
|
Playing Type 0 made me appreciate the (hilariously grim) fabula nova whatever universe and FF13 by extension. Still doesn't excuse the FF13 sequels story wise, but whatever, gotta recoup them investments somehow.
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2018 22:50
|
|
|
The ending wasnt planned on until they saw the games logo art and it inspired the ending so there is one person responsible for this mess.
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2018 22:51
|
|
|
Barudak posted:Cid dies about 2/3rd through the game. He is suddenly alive again with no explanation until you unlock some codex entries about 4/5 of the way through the game only to immediately die in the same cutscene. I'm pretty sure they do explain it away in a cutscene shortly before he gets killed again. Considering when he "died" he just turned to crystal, it's not really that strange to bring him back, but like everything else in that game his character was bad from start to finish anyway so it doesn't really matter.
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2018 22:57
|
|
|
Barudak posted:The ending wasnt planned on until they saw the games logo art and it inspired the ending so there is one person responsible for this mess. FF13's ending is such a glorious clusterfuck. The speed at which the group goes from, "We won't be your pawns and do the thing that'll doom Cocoon!" to "Actually we're doing to do the thing you want us to do but not because you want us to and also I bet it'll all be fine!" is incredible, and then literal divine intervention makes everything turn out fine anyway. FF13's story and setting had so much potential but god drat it was hosed up really badly in execution. It's still not as utterly baffling as whatever's going on with Kingdom Hearts, though, where it seems like every single narrative decision made after KH1 was meant to answer the question, "Yes, but how can we make this more convoluted? Can we have more characters who share the same name and are weird versions of each other? How about a second Organization XIII for some reason? Yeah, let's just throw it all in a loving blender."
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2018 23:04
|
|
|
Harrow posted:It's still not as utterly baffling as whatever's going on with Kingdom Hearts, though, where it seems like every single narrative decision made after KH1 was meant to answer the question, "Yes, but how can we make this more convoluted? Can we have more characters who share the same name and are weird versions of each other? How about a second Organization XIII for some reason? Yeah, let's just throw it all in a loving blender." Maybe it's just a rumor, but I recently read in the KH thread that all the Organization XIII poo poo is because at one point, Enix thought that Disney might one day bail from their deal and they'd have to have a fallback villain in case they couldn't use any Disney IPs.
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2018 23:20
|
|
|
I barely started FFXV for PC late last night, just did the tutorial, got to Hammerhead and saved for the night I'm not sure how I should be working the camera, lock-on and targeting in battle though, I tried to practice in the tutorial against Gladiolus but I didn't reach any real conclusions on control scheme or play method besides "hold block and hope it kinda works out" Any advice?
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2018 23:21
|
|
|
The White Dragon posted:Maybe it's just a rumor, but I recently read in the KH thread that all the Organization XIII poo poo is because at one point, Enix thought that Disney might one day bail from their deal and they'd have to have a fallback villain in case they couldn't use any Disney IPs. I mean the first Organization XIII, okay, sure, I get it, you need your anime pretty boy villains in your Final Fantasy spin-ff. But then, like, now Ansem is actually the Heartless of some dude named Xehanort, and also there's another guy named Ansem because there has to be for that to make sense because Ansem was supposed to be a cool guy scientist before he went evil, and then there's a second Organization XIII that Xehanort made to hang out with all the different versions of himself, including a time-traveling younger version. Also there are, what, three Soras? You got Sora, his Nobody Roxas, and then Ventus, who isn't Sora so much as Sora is him, but also not really And also there are at least two different entities in the lore that are called Kingdom Hearts and no clear idea of what either of them actually are I should probably take this to the KH thread actually but I'm sure everyone there is super tired of talking about "boy KH lore sure doesn't make any narrative sense at all, huh"
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2018 23:25
|
|
|
Saint Freak posted:Amazing what love for a 2d woman can compel one to complete. Excuse me, Lightning is real and beautiful and we share a chateau together in the French countryside.
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2018 23:37
|
|
|
victrix posted:Playing Type 0 made me appreciate the (hilariously grim) fabula nova whatever universe and FF13 by extension. Opera Omnia is selling me on Type-0 more than it is any of the numbered Final Fantasies, in large part because of just how weird and insane it sounds like it is in conversations. Is it actually worth buying? Cleretic fucked around with this message at 23:55 on Mar 9, 2018 |
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2018 23:51
|
|
|
Cleretic posted:Opera Omnia is selling me on Type-0 more than itis any of the numbered Final Fantasies, in large part because of just how weird and insane it sounds like it is in conversations. Is it actually worth buying? Its is not a good game or good story but its interesting. Highlight is the opening cutscene still of course
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2018 23:54
|
|
|
Type-0 is one of those games that I love because it has the most interesting twists on its lore of magic in a war. Like it is genuinely one of the most depressing FF games in setting and ending. To summon an Eidolon, you have to sacrifice your life force and if you die in Type-0, all memories of you are wiped out which is hosed up. So summoner squads are basically one-time hit squads with no history.
|
|
#
?
Mar 10, 2018 00:10
|
|
|
Type 0 is maybe better than it should be but is still very middling. It seems like it was the prototype for 15s combat but slightly simpler and demands you learn several move sets (not everybodies but you need to have a handle on 3-4 to not end up a creek without a paddle). The story is bonkers fabula nova poo poo which everyone should know where they stand on that. It's got some neat school daze side quests like it's trying to be Persona but with less heart and cohesion. Like you probably shouldn't play it but there's plenty of reasons that you might anyway.
|
|
#
?
Mar 10, 2018 00:11
|
|
|
Final Fantasy 15 taking so long to come out and seeming unfinished makes me suspicious that it went through a lot of revision as well (probably not to the extent of ff13) I really would love a consistently good final fantasy from beginning to end. The last one that felt 100% finished is X. The only one I haven't since played is 12 so it might be different.
|
|
#
?
Mar 10, 2018 00:13
|
|
|
pasaluki posted:Final Fantasy 15 taking so long to come out and seeming unfinished makes me suspicious that it went through a lot of revision as well (probably not to the extent of ff13) FF 15 absolutely went through a buttfuck number of revisions and changes starting from way back when it was Versus 13 or whatever.
|
|
#
?
Mar 10, 2018 00:15
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 23, 2024 15:33 |
|
|
FF13Vs was cancelled. FF15 as we know it started development around 2012 with 13vs work being used as preproduction inputs. The most notable production bits being lol it still took 4 years with all that preproduction, them adding the combat pause mode, and lol it took 4 years and the entire back half of the game is a train ride through the designers unimplemented ideas.
|
|
#
?
Mar 10, 2018 01:31
|
|