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Fututor Magnus posted:why are you people so incredibly upset by my mild arguments for programmers to priotitize time for self-improvement, and that social nonsense is entirely orthogonal to that, and as such should be rationed if not avoided. you can still maintain some semblance of social life, it means nothing to me, i just don't recommend you prioritize that over your duties to code.
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Mar 9, 2018 21:04
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Capri Sun Tzu posted:You type like an autisic rear end in a top hat, could be one reason it will be extremely cool when goons finally give up on using autism as an insult, IMO
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Mar 9, 2018 21:07
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Jeb Bush 2012 posted:it will be extremely cool when goons finally give up on using autism as an insult, IMO Sorry, we're never leaving the hey-day of 2004.
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Mar 9, 2018 21:08
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Jeb Bush 2012 posted:it will be extremely cool when goons finally give up on using autism as an insult, IMO wrap it up obamailures, it's trump's america now
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Mar 9, 2018 21:10
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It would probably be good to take this discussion to another thread, and focus on helping job hunters, newbies, etc.
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Mar 9, 2018 23:23
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As perhaps a way to get us back on track, a company emailed me asking me to take a HackerRank challenge. 3 hours, 4 questions (at least from what I glass door researched), and the last question may be a lot harder. I'm relatively confident in my skills when I'm not having to whiteboard, but not knowing what the questions are until I click the link and start the timer is messing me up. Has anyone done HackerRank stuff for a job before?
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Mar 10, 2018 02:16
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B-Nasty posted:Grossly misrepresenting others' arguments and straw manning are particularly noxious debate tactics. To others that aren't as blindly overcome with emotions as yourself, it weakens whatever points you may be trying to make that are actually valid. oh, i apologize. how grossly did i misrepresent james "chicks can't code" damore's arguments? by all means, please enlighten me. feedmegin posted:Are you, like, a monk in some super weird religious tech order or something? oh, that was just a cheesy phrase i came up with which i shared with the recruiters at my place, they liked it. Hughlander posted:Probably because you come across as a college Sophomore who has just finished Atlas Shrugged. If you want to grow your career you need social skills. If you want to grow your job you may not. Without the ability to adapt to your audience you are not going to be an effective mentor as a Senior engineer. Without the ability to listen to and prioritize people’s concerns that may or may not be logical, yet are still important to them you are not going to be an effective lead. If you cannot seek out the feedback and shared learning across an entire organization you are going to be a lovely Principal. All of these are indeed orthogonal to “can I write the dankest code?” Yet all are required for a career. You’ve never said what you consider to be top tier tech companies that want non-stop code monkeys but in this thread people who are currently at Google and Facebook tell you that you’re wrong but you double down more. it takes a sad egotistical loser indeed to read past someone's post this much. and if you're the type of person who'd want to smack a younger version of yourself for loving your own life up, perhaps you're not in much position to know what people need, do you? but you're right, coders shouldn't be devoid of social skills. in that, we agree. what a coder does need more than any social skill, is the skill to code. social skills come to everyone at some point, and even the slightest effort by organizations to train their engineers will award you coders with social skills. you know what takes a lot more effort to create, both on the part of the individual and the company? a good coder. if you have a good coder, it only takes initiative to get them the soft skills they need make them pop. just don't keep wasting their time which they need to develop and improve their core coding skills on these social skills. Fututor Magnus fucked around with this message at 02:58 on Mar 10, 2018 |
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Mar 10, 2018 02:55
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You sound absolutely charming. Please gtfo
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Mar 10, 2018 03:10
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downout posted:You sound absolutely charming. Please gtfo 
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Mar 10, 2018 03:20
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Social skills are massively important for software dev. Disregarding coworkers in dev (which you shouldn't.) not only do you have to be able to communicate with sales, management, consultants etc. but you need to be able to construct code other humans that aren't you would be able to read and understand somewhat intuitively. And no, social skills don't develop automagically. At least not to everyone.
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Mar 10, 2018 03:30
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Fututor Magnus posted:social skills come to everyone at some point, and even the slightest effort by organizations to train their engineers will award you coders with social skills. Fututor Magnus posted:if you have a good coder, it only takes initiative to get them the soft skills they need make them pop. Also how do you reconcile Fututor Magnus posted:just don't keep wasting their time which they need to develop and improve their core coding skills on these social skills. with Fututor Magnus posted:even the slightest effort by organizations to train their engineers will award you coders with social skills.
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Mar 10, 2018 03:35
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Joda posted:Social skills are massively important for software dev. Disregarding coworkers in dev (which you shouldn't.) not only do you have to be able to communicate with sales, management, consultants etc. but you need to be able to construct code other humans that aren't you would be able to read and understand somewhat intuitively. And no, social skills don't develop automagically. At least not to everyone. i've repeated myself over and over, i'm not saying that coders should be bereft of these skills. indeed, these are the skills that coders should be taught in training if need be. Slimy Hog posted:You seriously believe these things? what i mean is that the social skills training should be concise and shouldn't keep the coders from keeping up with self-training in code, which is the most important thing. if you waste resources in more intensive skills training than you need than you aren't going to get much return, we are talking about coders after all, and can keep coders from learning more important coding skills.
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Mar 10, 2018 03:52
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it's easier to teach coding than social skills. if you're an adult with no social skills you've been loving it up for decades. If you can't code you probably are just inexperienced.
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Mar 10, 2018 04:28
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Fututor Magnus posted:if you waste resources in more intensive skills training than you need than you aren't going to get much return, we are talking about coders after all, and can keep coders from learning more important coding skills. But, to try to bring this back on track, can you identify some coding skills in order of importance? You always seem short on details for these things for as much as you type about them. I saw that "ladder" some functional folks came up with that's in the same vein. But pretend you're talking to one of the newbies here and rank some concrete skills!
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Mar 10, 2018 04:42
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PokeJoe posted:it's easier to teach coding than social skills. if you're an adult with no social skills you've been loving it up for decades. If you can't code you probably are just inexperienced. It depends on what social skills you're talking about and what coding skills as well, right? I'm not sure what social skills you have in mind specifically when you say this, but: if you're an acerbic dickhead who chooses to be unpleasant to the people around you in spite of being intelligent enough to know how to properly behave in a civilized society, I'm not sure how much good trying to teach that person 'social skills' is going to be. Most people are forced to exist in a civil society to the point where they can't help but pick up on commonly accepted social behaviors and customs. That said, yeah, I agree with the people here who are saying that being approachable, being able to communicate, and being able to engage in conflict resolution maturely are things anyone who has a job that requires interacting with other humans should be able/willing to do. That's hardly a contentious idea. Amish Ninja fucked around with this message at 05:21 on Mar 10, 2018 |
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Mar 10, 2018 05:18
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Shirec posted:As perhaps a way to get us back on track, a company emailed me asking me to take a HackerRank challenge. 3 hours, 4 questions (at least from what I glass door researched), and the last question may be a lot harder. Yeah, it's not too bad as far as coding test sites go. If you haven't used one, you should be aware you don't get a lot of the niceties you normally do from an IDE. If you haven't used Hacker Rank specifically I'd recommend trying out some of the freely available problems before taking the test. If I remember right it had some spacing weirdness. e: I suppose you could just work in an IDE and copy the code over when you're done. That'd probably be smarter. Moon Wizard fucked around with this message at 09:13 on Mar 10, 2018 |
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Mar 10, 2018 09:04
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Deki posted:It's been two weeks since I did a take-home coding assignment for a company and Github is showing that only two users even looked at it. (Me, and my friend who walked through it). Kinda pissed off about the fact they didn't bother actually taking a look at it after assigning it. Woah github tells you who viewed your code?! e: lol that dude got probated for having the same argument in another thread teen phone cutie fucked around with this message at 17:49 on Mar 10, 2018 |
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Mar 10, 2018 17:29
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Grump posted:Woah github tells you who viewed your code?! https://help.github.com/articles/viewing-traffic-to-a-repository/ kitten smoothie fucked around with this message at 19:58 on Mar 11, 2018 |
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Mar 10, 2018 18:23
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I decided to update my resume a bit and found out that I am not sure what to write as a description of my work in an OSS project. I mean I could write down "responded to issues and PRs, fixed bugs, made releases", but that seems like stating the super obvious -- what else would you do with an OSS project? "Opened issues, introduced bugs and removed releases"? 
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Mar 11, 2018 15:14
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“Resolved issue with feature x, helped make feature y more stable, discovered issue that that was affecting performance of feature z” Pick your 2 or 3 highest profile commits and try to describe them in that way.
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Mar 11, 2018 18:11
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Git log says I have over 400 commits in ~14 months, so selecting highest profile commits might be a bit hard But I hear the idea, I will see if I can boil it down to something that doesn't sound completely obvious and conveys a useful point.
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Mar 11, 2018 21:57
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Xarn posted:Git log says I have over 400 commits in ~14 months, so selecting highest profile commits might be a bit hard I mean that by itself is a good numerical statistic that says "I actually work on this OSS project, it's not just a bullet point on the resume"
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Mar 11, 2018 22:08
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Xarn posted:Git log says I have over 400 commits in ~14 months, so selecting highest profile commits might be a bit hard You could change it to include specific numbers for "responded to issues and PRs, fixed bugs, made releases". issue, bug, and release count would probably be a good line in the resume.
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Mar 11, 2018 22:10
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What do you guys do if you want to interview but you're happy with your current job? I just found a job ad for a job that fits my qualifications pretty much to a T, but I'm not sure I want to apply, since I'm happy where I am, and I'm not sure if I could even interview without giving my boss the impression that I'm on my way out/outright lying to him.
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Mar 12, 2018 00:06
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Joda posted:What do you guys do if you want to interview but you're happy with your current job? I just found a job ad for a job that fits my qualifications pretty much to a T, but I'm not sure I want to apply, since I'm happy where I am, and I'm not sure if I could even interview without giving my boss the impression that I'm on my way out/outright lying to him. What's your goal? Would you leave your current job for this new one?
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Mar 12, 2018 00:10
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Slimy Hog posted:What's your goal? Would you leave your current job for this new one? If the culture matches the place I'm at (informal, flat structure, friendly tone etc.) it feels like a good fit and they offered me more, then yes, I think I would. E: In terms of goal it would be to work with something I have actually studied and find interesting (moreso than "just" software development,) and a higher salary. Joda fucked around with this message at 00:14 on Mar 12, 2018 |
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Mar 12, 2018 00:11
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Why does your boss have to know that you're interviewing?
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Mar 12, 2018 00:14
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ultrafilter posted:Why does your boss have to know that you're interviewing? I'd have to take time off to do it, and I have the option to make up an excuse (lie to a boss I actually like,) or tell him why I'm taking the time.
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Mar 12, 2018 00:15
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Joda posted:I'd have to take time off to do it, and I have the option to make up an excuse (lie to a boss I actually like,) or tell him why I'm taking the time. You can't just say "I'm taking off on Thursday"?
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Mar 12, 2018 01:25
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Xarn posted:Git log says I have over 400 commits in ~14 months, so selecting highest profile commits might be a bit hard If you can consolidate your commits to 2 or 3 over arching themes, that would be good. Otherwise something like: “Significant contributions to project with over 400 commits including feature improvements and bug fixes”
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Mar 12, 2018 01:46
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Curious what the project is tbh.
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Mar 12, 2018 08:11
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Even though a determined person could probably dox me from my post history already, I don't feel like making it that easy
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Mar 12, 2018 09:31
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Jose Valasquez posted:You can't just say "I'm taking off on Thursday"? I like to say I have an appointment and let them assume it's a doctor or dentist visit, which it'd be rude to pry into, so they generally won't. Once someone found me brushing my teeth in the restroom before I left and said something to the effect of 'oh that must be a dentist appointment, huh' 
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Mar 12, 2018 14:47
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Joda posted:What do you guys do if you want to interview but you're happy with your current job? I just found a job ad for a job that fits my qualifications pretty much to a T, but I'm not sure I want to apply, since I'm happy where I am, and I'm not sure if I could even interview without giving my boss the impression that I'm on my way out/outright lying to him. Just do it. If you want to be generous, you can warn them that you're happy with your current job and are just interested in seeing if they've got more to offer. It's totally OK to get a good offer from a company and turn it down because you're happy enough with your current job. For interviewing around your current job, the first phone call will probably be with a recruiter and they're usually happy to talk after hours. Next is usually a technical phone screen and you can ask for that to be after work and see what they say. No point in worrying until you're past the phone screen. Once you're invited for an on-site, I've always just said "I'll be out next week Monday" or "I'm taking PTO on the 20th". If anyone asks what I'm going to be doing, "personal business". (Besides interviewing, I take time off this way if I'm feeling burnt out or want to visit a very sick relative.)
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Mar 12, 2018 15:09
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Tell them you have to have some tests done but don't tell them it's coding tests.
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Mar 12, 2018 15:13
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My senior told us today he was going to be off the dev call tomorrow morning for "a phone call" and I assumed the worst that he will be leaving us for another job
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Mar 12, 2018 23:54
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ultrafilter posted:Why does your boss have to know that you're interviewing? Any time that I've had to take PTO and my manager has asked why, I have always told him that I'm going to a job interview. Of course, I'm actually going to the dentist or taking the dog to the vet or something like that. When the manager looks shocked and says "you're going to an interview??", I just shrug and then say what the real reason is. After a while, I stop getting asked the follow-up question. I figure that I can get everyone acclimated to that reason so that when the real deal rolls around, I'm good to go with the excuse of "I'm going to a job interview" when it actually is a job interview. Then again, I once interviewed with NASA while not wearing any pants. My advice might not be the best to follow in this regard. I did not get the NASA job.
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Mar 13, 2018 00:29
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hendersa posted:Then again, I once interviewed with NASA while not wearing any pants. My advice might not be the best to follow in this regard. next time, try angling your webcam towards your face
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Mar 13, 2018 00:40
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Jeb Bush 2012 posted:next time, try angling your webcam towards your face
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Mar 14, 2018 04:38
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Hughlander posted:The point was that in the real world specs often don’t match the implementation, and as such that part was the true real world implication. And how is the dev supposed to know that the tests are mutually incompatible if they can't see the test input or the expected output? Do you not think it's much more likely that the API just changed over time and the question text simply wasn't updated to reflect it?
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Mar 14, 2018 05:02
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