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Whitlam posted:Maybe in some hypothetical world you could have a perfect utopian system of public transport that is reliable (which ours definitely isn't), safe and cheap, but we definitely do not have that in this reality, so for some people, cars are a fairly non-negotiable necessity. ah yes, the fabled land of “Singapore”
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Mar 12, 2018 21:34
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hooman posted:Underemployment, non existent wage growth and imported temporary workers are a totally discussion about immigration policy levers than infrastructure HTH. Also again, these aren't problems with immigration as much as wealth transfer policies, casualisation, worker disempowerement and union busting. Immigration creates growth, who benefits from that growth is based on government policy not immigration itself. How much growth are they creating though? If a 1.5% increase in population through immigration is producing a 1.5% increase in GDP all it's doing is costing more in infrastructure and papering over stagnant economic growth in other areas.
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Mar 12, 2018 21:42
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Birdstrike posted:ah yes, the fabled land of “Singapore” Jesus coffee came out of my nose
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Mar 12, 2018 21:53
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Birdstrike posted:ah yes, the fabled land of “Singapore” Unfortunately we'd have to bulldoze our cities entirely to imitate a lot of high density cities that have good transport models. I don't like it and I think it's bad for everyone, but people continue to buy parcels of land in distant place because it's cheaper and they must have a yard or whatever for their children. So you get these population surges in spots west of Melbourne that have literally nothing there except maybe (big maybe) a rail line because no one ever contemplated servicing them.
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Mar 12, 2018 22:00
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China bulldozes entire cities all the time. Heck they are building a high speed rail project at the moment and demolishing villages and suburbs in order to build through it and rebuild the entire town around it. And the government let's all the displaced citizens live in 4 star hotels while they wait to own a home again. Wish I could find a news article on it
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Mar 12, 2018 22:06
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gay picnic defence posted:How much growth are they creating though? If a 1.5% increase in population through immigration is producing a 1.5% increase in GDP all it's doing is costing more in infrastructure and papering over stagnant economic growth in other areas. It's becoming more commonly acknowledged right now that immigration is being used to mask some serious economic weaknesses and prop up neoliberalism. Some people are stating it for nefarious reasons, others are just saying that the system is broken and unsustainable if we don't deal with the litany of fuckups that led this point. The property market has a lot to answer for essentially. I don't think anyone should lose a family home if it goes south and we should defend them, but investors/developers should be left to their own devices and brutally punished by the market in a downturn.
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Mar 12, 2018 22:08
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I feel like China has very different rules around compulsory acquisitions and that their government can't be destroyed at an election for doing something like bulldozing an entire city.
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Mar 12, 2018 22:12
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Whitlam posted:Nah not people living in their cars or anything, more "it's hard enough being a single parent, let alone with two or more kids, let alone if you're homeless on top of that." Buses and trams are (I'd argue) underutilized methods of public transport, but due to their circuitous and slow nature, they aren't always a realistic option, especially if there are multiple competing time pressures (for instance, one kid has after school sport and you also need to be at your housing meeting, which the kid is required to be there for - that's not a hypothetical example, if you're arguing that you need space for a kid they need to come to the meeting where I live). Trains can only go where there are stations. If you've got multiple competing time pressures, your options may be to choose between them or drive. So your argument is that people don't use PT because it's infrequent and slow, therefore we shouldn't invest money into making it faster, more reliable, and expanding the areas it covers?
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Mar 12, 2018 22:14
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Don't live in the western suburbs :smugeastie:
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Mar 12, 2018 22:16
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Official theme song of the Melbourne Westie https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Ox1Tore9nw
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Mar 12, 2018 22:17
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Nothing like living so close to public transport here in the east *drives to work*
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Mar 12, 2018 22:18
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JBP posted:I feel like China has very different rules around compulsory acquisitions and that their government can't be destroyed at an election for doing something like bulldozing an entire city. another win for authoritarianism
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Mar 12, 2018 22:18
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Mad Katter posted:So your argument is that people don't use PT because it's infrequent and slow, therefore we shouldn't invest money into making it faster, more reliable, and expanding the areas it covers? Please quote me where I've said at any point not to invest. I've said multiple times we need to invest more. My argument is that that right now at this point in time in history in Melbourne, a car is not necessarily something people can just forego.
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Mar 12, 2018 22:19
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Actually China is.... *Checks citizen score* good!
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Mar 12, 2018 22:30
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Imagine if syd/melb had train lines that linked middle/outer suburbs that didn’t just funnel people into the CBD. Wait JBP says it’s too hard, better bulldoze Rozelle for Westconnex and the duplicate harbour tunnel.
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Mar 12, 2018 22:32
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Birdstrike posted:Imagine if syd/melb had train lines that linked middle/outer suburbs that didn’t just funnel people into the CBD. Get Juche and bulldoze easy. No pesky elections. Government owns bulldozer. Ask me how.
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Mar 12, 2018 22:33
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We don't need to bulldoze anything we just need to build a monorail that loops around the entire east coast.
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Mar 12, 2018 22:35
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Anidav posted:We don't need to bulldoze anything we just need to build a monorail that loops around the entire east coast. Elon hush
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Mar 12, 2018 22:36
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Whitlam posted:Please quote me where I've said at any point not to invest. I've said multiple times we need to invest more. My argument is that that right now at this point in time in history in Melbourne, a car is not necessarily something people can just forego. I'm sure a lot of people would migrate to rail or whatever alternative if the services were less than ten minutes away by walking. A lot of morning drivers are crossing town from poor services to poor services, which sucks. Also if you say road in a post you just get a series Mark Lathams cherry picking it so they can drop whatever hot bombs they've got lined up. This conversation started because someone cherry picked my post where I said roads among like seven posts about infrastructure, which was as a response to people's anger at the right cherry picking the word immigration to beat people up.
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Mar 12, 2018 22:37
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Birdstrike posted:ah yes, the fabled land of “Singapore” Cool. Just need 2 things. 1. A lot more high rise living, as in for everyone. 2. A lt less private home ownership. Not sure either are pallatable for the electorate. The cities themselves can be very livable.
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Mar 12, 2018 22:42
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Rail is cool and good. I'm on the V-Line to Geelong right now. V-Line trains are infinitely nicer than Metro trains.
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Mar 12, 2018 22:42
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I'm on the stinking meat crate in the loop hating life.
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Mar 12, 2018 22:44
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In Queensland we just use one of those manual rail line carts.
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Mar 12, 2018 22:44
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We forgot what trains were in Tasmania.
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Mar 12, 2018 22:47
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I'd like to live in the Huon in a midcentury when I retire. Tasmania is the best.
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Mar 12, 2018 22:49
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*dies at desk*
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Mar 12, 2018 22:50
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You decide Australia's population, we'll show you how it looks http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-03-13/big-australia-or-small-australia-you-decide-our-population/9470156
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Mar 12, 2018 22:52
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Gee ABC thanks for creating a migration control simulator.
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Mar 12, 2018 22:53
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Anidav posted:Gee ABC thanks for creating a migration control simulator. this Chris Roberts version of papers please sucks
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Mar 12, 2018 23:21
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Birdstrike posted:this Chris Roberts version of papers please sucks
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Mar 12, 2018 23:25
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Chris Kenny's Pedigree Papers Please
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Mar 12, 2018 23:41
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i loving warned you people four corners and the abc in general were leaning into full hitler re: migrant australians but did you listen to me? no. an armed takeover at the right time could have fixed all this
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Mar 12, 2018 23:51
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Stop the immigants
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Mar 12, 2018 23:53
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I am bathing in the ocean of boomer tears shed over the ALP abolishing excess franking credit refunds.
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Mar 13, 2018 00:08
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ALP should double down on attacking banking and rich people, kill off negative gearing, announce some FDR level infrastructure poo poo and reduce skilled immigration in favour of mandatory, free vocational training to deliver a thousand year Shorten Reich.
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Mar 13, 2018 00:16
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Just loving kill them all and nationalise their assets
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Mar 13, 2018 00:18
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actually the franking credits thing is dumb, it only really affects people who save just enough that they can live a modest retirement underneath the tax-free threshold. I wouldn't call these people rich, just good with money. it will just result in a whole lot of restructuring for capital growth instead of dividends because otherwise the precious capital will flow overseas labor now poo poo edit: maybe they were always poo poo and it only just became clear to me
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Mar 13, 2018 00:21
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Birdstrike posted:I am bathing in the ocean of boomer tears shed over the ALP abolishing excess franking credit refunds. You can always tell that it's a decent policy when the IPA shills are out in full force on the comments claiming this will hurt pensioners. I don't know how they do the mental gymnastics but apparently the ~92% of the population that are unaffected should be up in arms for the ~8% claiming the credits.
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Mar 13, 2018 00:22
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Chadzok posted:actually the franking credits thing is dumb, it only really affects people who save just enough that they can live a modest retirement underneath the tax-free threshold. I wouldn't call these people rich, just good with money. it will just result in a whole lot of restructuring for capital growth instead of dividends because otherwise the precious capital will flow overseas This isn't the way it was put to me by a broker this morning but I don't know poo poo.
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Mar 13, 2018 00:22
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believe me, I share a long history of forum membership with you
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Mar 13, 2018 00:25
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