|
Epicmissingno posted:So now that Arthas has gone bad, what happened to Thassarian? Or would that be spoilers for events in the other campaigns? He's a WoW character. Thassarian is, in the WoW story, one of Arthas' subordinate death knights and continues to be a loyal minion of the Scourge for years to come.
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2018 02:04
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 11, 2024 14:49 |
|
|
The majority of Arthas' expeditionary force were slaughtered and raised as the undead. The same with all the citizens in the Capital City. The lieutenants were turned into Death Knights, like Arthas became. So yeah, Lordaeron is hosed.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2018 02:16
|
|
|
Poor Thassarian was one of the few (initial) survivors of the final battle with Mal'ganis. He went out wandering in Northrend to see what the gently caress Arthas had gotten up to after abandoning them, and came across either Falric or Marwyn, one of the characters who got retconned into being "the Captain". He predictably got shanked, and brought back as a Death Knight. At the ceremony in the cutscene, he was compelled into slaying his own mother when the revelry gave way to slaughter. Anything beyond that spoils at least the next campaign, though.
|
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2018 02:31
|
|
|
painedforever posted:So awesome. So very awesome! The listed soundset for the revenants is "revenant". It literally only has a death sound listed. The creep nerubian units all have "nerubian" as well. Weirdly, I can't seem to find it. There is an arachnathid set though. It has no interesting lines, just a bunch of gurgles. So you are not missing much. In fact, most creep units don't have notable sounds, mostly being machinery or howling. However bandits, forest trolls, ice trolls, and ogres have actual voice lines. There might also be some that have sounds listed elsewhere. And there are definitely one or two spoiler units in there. I think you covered sappers already, right? The sound editor also lets you raise the pitch of lines, which can be quite amusing. lobster22221 fucked around with this message at 02:46 on Mar 13, 2018 |
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2018 02:42
|
|
|
The Nerubians just use the Crypt Fiend voice lines, I believe.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2018 02:44
|
|
|
SirSamVimes posted:The Nerubians just use the Crypt Fiend voice lines, I believe. I just tested in the campaign. It seems like they use the regular subset, but I could not get the annoyed quotes to activate. Weird. Revenants also have some kind of sound, but nothing interesting. There is some weird mapping between the sound sets in the object editor and the sound editor apparently.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2018 02:58
|
|
|
Cythereal posted:He's a WoW character. Thassarian is, in the WoW story, one of Arthas' subordinate death knights and continues to be a loyal minion of the Scourge for years to come. I got Thassarian and Thaurissan mixed up for a long time and it was very confusing.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2018 03:14
|
|
|
Xenocides posted:But I do not get a lot of this. He kills Mal’Ganis and goes mad. Then he heads home. Presumably he does not have an Alliance army anymore. He comes home and tells someone they won. They throw a huge celebration all procession when Arthas lost the whole expedition? Terenas seems confused and does not ask any questions when his son walks in like what happened to the army I sent a recall order to? Why did you defy Uther? Where is Jaina who I sent with you? Why did you wipe out a whole city? Why are you not holding the hammer of the Paladin and have a glowing skull sword instead. Instead just “My son....”. I know, probably would have ruined the moment..... There's a bit to unpack here. This is basically "Hero's Fall 101". The noble but flawed hero, led down the path of corruption, reaches the end of his quest. Triumphant, he looks back at all that's he lost, all that he's sacrificed, and goes mad due in part to the cursed artifact that led him to this final step. This is Anakin Skywalker. This is Horus Lupercal. This is Harvey Dent and Michael Corleone. His army follows him into madness, because, y'know, he's a charismatic prince, and they've already been into the crucible of war with him. Somebody here mentioned Nazis, and yeah, that's pretty close to what happens; people following orders, believing that they come from a legitimate source, not questioning what they're getting into, not questioning what's happening. It's not Nazism, but more like what happens around autocratic demagogues. I agree with Siegkrow and MagusofStars, that King Terenas is relieved that his son has returned. I don't know if Jaina would have gone back to the King (and it wasn't King Terenas who sent her, but Antonidas), but Uther would have. But in order for Arthas to have been punished, he would have to return home. Now, Arthas returns, with his army, banners aloft. They're seen by various watchtowers and guards approaching. It's assumed they're returning in triumph. Tribunals come later, first, there needs to be a royal welcome. Maybe Arthas went too far, but as a King, Terenas would feel that, y'know, sometimes the ends justify the means. Willing to give his son the benefit of the doubt. So far as Frostmourne is concerned... I remember reading that the Lich King had been planning this for a long time, seeding rumours and stories ahead of the Scourge, to bait some hero powerful enough to claim the sword. The Scourge is a means to an end, I think, both a lure, and an army. The Revenants, I think, are supposed to be the shades of other heroes who attempted to claim Frostmourne themselves, but realized that it's evil? Or the old WarCraft standby of "Dragons"? They don't come from the Lich King, at least not directly. It could also be that the heroes who fell in trying to claim Frostmourne became corrupted themselves by its influence, with the most powerful one still having enough willpower to rally the other shades into keeping others away from Frostmourne. So, lots of theories. Muradin definitely "dies" to the ice-shard that flies off of Frostmourne's prison. I think it's meant to be deliberate, Frostmourne taking a "price". Notice, that Arthas didn't mourn Muradin at all, his final step down the road to corruption. Arthas has shown that he's "worthy" of Frostmourne, sacrificing all in the name of vengeance. ****** I want to talk a little bit about how the Human army works, and I hope that someone who's actually good at RTS's will chime in with some proper insights. The Human army is very tanky, very conservative (in more ways than one). They play the closest to how most RTS factions work. Their units are middle of the road in terms of price. The footman has a defensive shield, and their primary hero heals and resurrects, and they have a dedicated healer in the list as well. Their worker units also exist as a final line of defence, in that when you ring the alarm bell on your Town Hall, all of the workers rush in, get armed and armoured, and then can act as second-rate warriors. They're not very good, but y'know, better than nothing.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2018 04:16
|
|
|
You know, something that just occurred to me is that for Humans, their last-ditch defense (or cheesy rush strat) is to outfit their peasants with weapons and engage in melee... while for the orcs, it's to hide away in burrows and shoot from range. Just kind of a funny thematic reversal I guess.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2018 04:39
|
|
|
Mazerunner posted:You know, something that just occurred to me is that for Humans, their last-ditch defense (or cheesy rush strat) is to outfit their peasants with weapons and engage in melee... while for the orcs, it's to hide away in burrows and shoot from range. Just kind of a funny thematic reversal I guess. Thing is, human peasants are people who could, if needed, train to be soldiers, and the very fact that they're able to pick up equipment and be decent with it shows they're already hardy, tough people who would just need some training and discipline. Orc Peons however, are the idiots and cowards among the orcs who are horrible at everything but menial labor. Their defense is to hide them away somewhere they can try to do something from safety because the Orcs have already decided that sending them into melee combat is a waste of time.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2018 05:54
|
|
|
Orc peons are the members of Orcish society that failed at life.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2018 06:46
|
|
|
They just are not that kind of orc.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2018 06:53
|
|
|
W.T. Fits posted:You've alienated your mentor and your former lover. You are still a good person.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2018 09:11
|
|
|
sebmojo posted:You are still a good person. Uh...no. Arthas is not at all. 
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2018 09:18
|
|
|
painedforever posted:There's a bit to unpack here. This is basically "Hero's Fall 101". The noble but flawed hero, led down the path of corruption, reaches the end of his quest. Triumphant, he looks back at all that's he lost, all that he's sacrificed, and goes mad due in part to the cursed artifact that led him to this final step. This is Anakin Skywalker. This is Horus Lupercal. This is Harvey Dent and Michael Corleone. Michael Corleone doesn't belong on that list though, as his fall is predictable, believable, and meaningful. It's also full of atrocities, but has no "well, NOW I'm the bad guy (dramatic chipmunk turn) (dun dun dun)" moments.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2018 09:49
|
|
|
Xander77 posted:Hah. I don't think you've intended "Hero's Fall 101" as in "Hero's Fall as written by first year creative writing students", but it works exceedingly well. And then Corleone was a zombie.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2018 09:53
|
|
|
Xander77 posted:Hah. I don't think you've intended "Hero's Fall 101" as in "Hero's Fall as written by first year creative writing students", but it works exceedingly well. Are we talking about the book or the movies? I'll admit that compared to the other examples (Star Wars, WarHammer 40k, superhero comics), the Godfather is significantly more mature. Anyway, you ken what I mean, yeah? And honestly, when I said "101", I meant, "by the numbers", which works for first year students as well. I was going to go with "every single PC Paladin in D&D history", but seeing as Arthas is also a Paladin, that's a bit too on the nose.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2018 14:58
|
|
|
painedforever posted:I was going to go with "every single PC Paladin in D&D history", but seeing as Arthas is also a Paladin, that's a bit too on the nose. Unfortunately, Warcraft paladins are not D&D paladins and as far as I know there's never been a case of a paladin in Warcraft falling and losing their powers. Plenty have abandoned the Light for other powers, but there's lots of examples of paladins doing blatantly evil poo poo like Arthas, and even one outright undead paladin who was part of the Scourge. The Light in Warcraft only cares about personal conviction and force of belief, not any moral standard of behavior.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2018 15:03
|
|
|
Cythereal posted:Unfortunately, Warcraft paladins are not D&D paladins and as far as I know there's never been a case of a paladin in Warcraft falling and losing their powers. Plenty have abandoned the Light for other powers, but there's lots of examples of paladins doing blatantly evil poo poo like Arthas, and even one outright undead paladin who was part of the Scourge. The Light in Warcraft only cares about personal conviction and force of belief, not any moral standard of behavior. Isn't the light just windchimes in space?
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2018 15:05
|
|
|
lobster22221 posted:Isn't the light just windchimes in space? No, I think it's the other way around. Wind chimes are light in space, but The Light is something a level above them.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2018 15:08
|
|
|
lobster22221 posted:Isn't the light just windchimes in space? The relationship between the Naaru and the Light has never been explicitly clarified. In general, it's whatever the plot demands.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2018 15:08
|
|
|
Cythereal posted:The relationship between the Naaru and the Light has never been explicitly clarified. In general, it's whatever the plot demands. I can't decide if I am happy or sad that this point in WoW lore is not as silly as I had heard.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2018 15:10
|
|
|
 poo poo's gotten complicated real fast, and will probably only get real complicated now the Void Lords are getting shoved into the murderhobo sights.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2018 16:08
|
|
|
I don't think the Naaru are the source of the Light so much as deeply connected to it, whatever it is, on some fundamental level. Like, Ragnaros and the other Elemental Lords aren't the source of the four "normal" elements, but they are of the elements as well as incredibly ancient and powerful. It's never been clarified really, but I think comparing the Naaru (and their shadow counterparts) to them gets you pretty close. Much like a shaman can harness elemental magic, a priest or paladin can harness light magic, and at no point does a fire elemental/naaru need to be personally involved.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2018 16:15
|
|
|
Since the Greater Cosmological Bullshit is thus far relegated to companion books I think you can rest easy knowing that the game(s?) will retcon the poo poo out of it all if the designers think doing so will help move the plot along. It's a fantasy setting. Either a wizard did it, or it's a state of mind.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2018 16:24
|
|
|
There’s at least one semi-large faction in WoW who are full of paladins and basically are all terrible racist dirtbags whose redeeming features are far and few between. But I think explaining more will have to wait. The light gives no actual moral judgement, it just asks for strength of conviction in your beliefs.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2018 17:43
|
|
|
Lord_Magmar posted:There’s at least one semi-large faction in WoW who are full of paladins and basically are all terrible racist dirtbags whose redeeming features are far and few between. But I think explaining more will have to wait. Which group are we talking about because I can think of at least 3 that fit: Dark Iron dwarves, Scarlet evereything and Zandalari Prelates.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2018 17:50
|
|
|
Probably the Scarlets, but getting into them involves spoiling one of the first few missions of the next campaign.
|
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2018 17:56
|
|
|
Lord_Magmar posted:There’s at least one semi-large faction in WoW who are full of paladins and basically are all terrible racist dirtbags whose redeeming features are far and few between. But I think explaining more will have to wait. I don’t know why, but I’m just not comfortable calling people like this Paladins. Maybe it’s all the D&D I’ve played, but it’s just hard for me to accept them as worthy of the title. Then again, some of the “awful good” D&D Paladins I’ve dealt with have really crossed the line too- and kept their powers for whatever reason. Every hero is flawed these days. There are no more ideal heroes to look up to. People say the good guy ideal hero is overdone? I honestly have trouble recalling the last time I saw it done. I’m way more used to either the flawed hero going bad and thus no longer being much of a respected hero or the hero trying to be good and getting poo poo on at every turn repeatedly. Drama or not, it’s really frustrating sometimes. Oh well, enough venting. I know complaints won’t help. One best just try to be good in the bad world as best they can- no matter how hard it is to find continual ongoing inspiration for such. Or so I keep telling myself. Sometimes it’s just easier, even cathartic, to let loose and play Evil- as I suspect many will agree when the next campaign gets going. I felt that way last time I played it and am expecting to relive the memories as we go through upcoming missions. Not saying Evil is always desirable, mind you, I’ve already established I am frustrated sometimes by its abundance and predictability. But when it is expected, well... you got an easy fix there. 
achtungnight fucked around with this message at 22:06 on Mar 13, 2018 |
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2018 21:13
|
|
|
SteelMentor posted:
I see someone at Blizzard is a big fan of Planescape.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2018 21:23
|
|
|
WrightOfWay posted:I see someone at Blizzard is a big fan of Planescape. Nothing wrong with that.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2018 21:30
|
|
|
achtungnight posted:*Snip* Sir this is a McDonald's drive through
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2018 22:44
|
|
|
[sigh] I'll have a Filet of Fish Meal, add lettuce and tomato, large. I wish you still had orange lavaburst, but I'll settle for Cherry Coke no ice. Charge me for Sweet & Sour Sauce if you must. One apple pie too please. Thanks. [car behind me] I'll have two number 9s, a number 9 large, a number 6 with extra dip, a number 7, two number 45s, one with cheese, and a large soda.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2018 22:57
|
|
|
achtungnight posted:Every hero is flawed these days. It's incredibly baffling that you seem to think this is a bad thing. quote:There are no more ideal heroes to look up to. There never were.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2018 23:00
|
|
|
It is a bad thing. Sometimes you need and want a good guy, a good story, a good hero. And I suppose it can make you appreciate them all the more when they’re few and far between. I have already accepted that this ain’t that kind of story.  I don’t need you reminding me, thanks.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2018 23:11
|
|
|
SteelMentor posted:
Wait, so arcane magic suddenly isn't demonic in origin?
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2018 23:17
|
|
|
I can get where you're coming from, achtungnight- the 'incorruptible paragon' archetype is one of my favourites as well. Thing is, sometimes it takes a dark story environment to let the brightness shine through. See, Arthas was never meant to be the hero of Warcraft 3, or Warcraft's universe if WoW is anything to go by- he's merely a plot catalyst, the darkness that allows the goodness of others to shine through. And Warcraft 3 does have good, pure-hearted heroes in both Jaina and Thrall, at least by my lights, but we'll get to that when their respective parts come up again (it's not a spoiler to say that, right?)
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2018 23:21
|
|
|
[nods at Commisar Mega] Amen. Looking forward to it. Doesn't mean I won't enjoy some cathartic release before we get there with the Undead Campaign either. Recent Villain Speech I really admire (paraphrasing)- "Have you heard the story of the Good Samaritan? I've always loved it. Recently, though, I've been looking at it in a new way. Oh, you need me to remind you? Ok. There's this traveler, he gets robbed by men of ill intent for no good reason. A Priest and a Levite walk past him as he lies wounded, don't bother helping him, perhaps even chuckle at his misery. Then a Samaritan, a man of prejudged bad character, does help him- but never mind that now. The way I look at that story after all I've lived through... before now, I thought I should be like the traveler, or the Samaritan. But I'm not. I can't be. I'm not the Samaritan. I'm not the traveler. I'm not the Priest or the Levite either. I am the Ill Intent that befell the traveler on a road he should not have been on!" - Wilson Fisk, Netflix Daredevil Season 1.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2018 23:28
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2018 23:35
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 11, 2024 14:49 |
|
|
achtungnight posted:[sigh] I'll have a Filet of Fish Meal, add lettuce and tomato, large. I wish you still had orange lavaburst, but I'll settle for Cherry Coke no ice. Charge me for Sweet & Sour Sauce if you must. One apple pie too please. Thanks. Hah! I can appreciate it when someone can take the snark-punch and deliver a good come back.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2018 23:40
|
|