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rumble in the bunghole posted:What do unions have to do with this Skarka It means he knows the minimum amount they were paid to do the streams, as the union sets that out for 'new media'.
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Mar 13, 2018 08:49
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Someone really needs to let GMS know that there are plenty more varieties of fruit besides sour grapes.
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Mar 13, 2018 09:00
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Someone should explain to him that, to get paid more, you have to release a product, like a complete or finished session of a game, akin to...chapters, in a book, maybe. Basically, you have to release something to get paid for it. Might be an alien concept for him, though.
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Mar 13, 2018 09:06
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Rand Brittain posted:Dungeons and Dragons, generically, has basically nothing interesting about it that hasn't already become part-and-parcel of the general fantasy wheelhouse. The problem with this is that you don't need the D&D brand to do that. They did the James Franco Oz movie which is more or less a variation of this theme. Honestly the only D&D movie I want to see is one where Drizzt is played by Ice-T like in that audiobook.
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Mar 13, 2018 09:07
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It's appalling that people are making money off of the hard work of others! Now, if you'll excuse me, I need to go back to filing the serial numbers off of John Carter novels and applying Photoshop filters to the production stills of kung fu movies.
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Mar 13, 2018 09:15
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Kemper Boyd posted:The problem with this is that you don't need the D&D brand to do that. They did the James Franco Oz movie which is more or less a variation of this theme. I mean you don't need any brand to do a movie. you can just as easily make a movie about transforming robots that isn't transformers. the reason that d&d movies haven't worked out before is that they were low budget and nerd properties weren't as hot, like there's no reason D&D doesn't have a movie, cartoon and toyline out right now.
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Mar 13, 2018 09:22
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Kai Tave posted:Someone really needs to let GMS know that there are plenty more varieties of fruit besides sour grapes.  
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Mar 13, 2018 09:54
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RPG liveplay/podcasts aren't even the same thing as a Let's Play of a video game where you could at least argue the point that showing an entire video game from loading screen to credits hypothetically devalues the game in some nebulous "people might not buy it if they can watch the whole thing for free" way (which isn't even all that accurate anyway because a lot of video game publishers these days enter into arrangements with LPers/streamers as a promotional gimmick, though not every publisher is totally sanguine about it, but that's a topic for another subforum), it's using a game as a framework to create brand new content. If they're being paid more than the people who made the game they're running it's probably due to some combination of A). the fact that they're actually releasing content regularly (as Mr.Misfit points out) and B). more people want to partake of that content than want to buy a copy of whatever game it is themselves. James Wallace pops in to gripe about a Yogscast video where they play the Extraordinary Adventures of Baron Munchausen claiming that they never even name the game or mention it's a thing you can buy, except for the fact that they name the game in the beginning of the video, in the description of the video, in the title of the video, and at the end of the video. Maybe he's got a point in that they don't name Wallace or throw a link to where you can buy the game, but on the other hand we live in an age where Google exists and none of them were trying to claim they created the game themselves so. There's a reasonable point somewhere in there (give shout-outs to people whose stuff you enjoy, word of mouth is a great thing to give to creators, especially of the indie/niche sort) but it's buried under some self-indulgent whine.
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Mar 13, 2018 10:02
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Honestly, a dungeon crawl as a movie would probably sell if you were to actually pay someone with some modicum of skill to write it. Set it in the Realms, cameo Elminster, call it good enough. Focus on making a fun fantasy action movie more than a series of lovely injokes. Nobody'd invest in it, though, so you'd never get the budget to do it well.
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Mar 13, 2018 10:34
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Kemper Boyd posted:A bunch of designers (Skarka and Wallis) complain about.... tabletop streamers who get more money than the designers of said games. Is Skarka even a designer any more? What's he done since not releasing Far West?
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Mar 13, 2018 11:32
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DigitalRaven posted:Is Skarka even a designer any more? People occasionally hire him for other projects, or talk about hiring him, and then someone says "Hey, uh, really? Given he hasn't delivered on Far West" and then often as not his role on said product is reduced.
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Mar 13, 2018 11:40
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Liquid Communism posted:Honestly, a dungeon crawl as a movie would probably sell if you were to actually pay someone with some modicum of skill to write it. Set it in the Realms, cameo Elminster, call it good enough. Focus on making a fun fantasy action movie more than a series of lovely injokes. The second D&D movie is basically this, but without Elminster. It didn’t sell due to poor marketing, but it was decent enough.
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Mar 13, 2018 11:59
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Leperflesh posted:The Dungeon Siege movies are basically D&D movies too. Woof, those DS movies are awful. American audiences just don't seem to have much of an appetite for swords and sorcery movies--even Willow was only a modest success and not the blockbuster they expected. Those types of movies do much better in China and Japan, where they showcase either martial arts or samurai. Even non-DnD movies set in that era struggle--13th warrior and Kingdom of Heaven were both big flops, for example. If I had to guess, it's partly because American history doesn't start until well after guns had revolutionized warfare. But it makes the prospect of a big budget DnD movie really unlikely.
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Mar 13, 2018 12:20
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clearly you make a d&d movie with guns
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Mar 13, 2018 12:43
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Serf posted:clearly you make a d&d movie with guns I too enjoyed Antoine Fuqua's The Magnificent Six remake
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Mar 13, 2018 12:50
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Doesn't matter what the plot looks like as long as the script is written such that stuff like someone saying "I'm sick of these motherfucking dragons in these motherfucking dungeons" is either avoided completely or comprises 90% of the dialogue.
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Mar 13, 2018 12:55
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gradenko_2000 posted:I too enjoyed Antoine Fuqua's The Magnificent Six remake the original was itself a remake of seven samurai so we're not that far away from a typical d&d adventure
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Mar 13, 2018 13:12
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Seven Samurai would make a fantastic adventure premise.
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Mar 13, 2018 13:19
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Nickoten posted:Seven Samurai would make a fantastic adventure premise. How very old school. Bandits No. Appearing 30-180(3d6x10)
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Mar 13, 2018 13:32
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gradenko_2000 posted:I too enjoyed Antoine Fuqua's The Magnificent Six remake The Magnificent Seven remake was absolutely dire and comically missed the point by changing the leader's motivation for standing up to the bandits. 
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Mar 13, 2018 13:36
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Kai Tave posted:Someone really needs to let GMS know that there are plenty more varieties of fruit besides sour grapes. Maybe if he ever made a game we could have people getting paid union scale to play it.
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Mar 13, 2018 13:59
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Lemon-Lime posted:The Magnificent Seven remake was absolutely dire and comically missed the point by changing the leader's motivation for standing up to the bandits. this guy gets it Though I'm probably biased because the original Magnificent Seven is one of my favorite movies
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Mar 13, 2018 14:11
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Maybe that dude's point is that tabletop devs and people who work on TRPGs as a whole don't have a strong union like the SAG and are paid in peanuts because of that???
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Mar 13, 2018 14:28
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Kai Tave posted:James Wallace pops in to gripe about a Yogscast video where they play the Extraordinary Adventures of Baron Munchausen claiming that they never even name the game or mention it's a thing you can buy, except for the fact that they name the game in the beginning of the video, in the description of the video, in the title of the video, and at the end of the video. Maybe he's got a point in that they don't name Wallace or throw a link to where you can buy the game, but on the other hand we live in an age where Google exists and none of them were trying to claim they created the game themselves so. I've noticed that Wallis in general tends to take a very strong view on how much a game designer contributes to your home game experience. I finally managed to have a look at Alas Vegas recently (didn't get my own copy since I got a refund during the long silence on the Kickstarter) and the central adventure in there is extremely railroady, and he more or less directly talks about how he and the person currently running the game (it's a revolving-GM setup) are collaborating somehow. ("That doesn’t give you a licence to make poo poo up. This isn’t one of those indie games. Improvise by all means, but this is guided storytelling not a freeform bullshit session, and in each session there are two guides, you and me, and we’re in this together." - Infuriating not least because the nature of the adventure is such that in the early sessions the person GMing a) doesn't know what is going on and b) as per the rules as written isn't allowed to know what is going on, and so can't answer player questions or handle unexpected actions at all well because they don't have the underpinnings of information necessary to work out what happens as a result of actions which ping the underlying metaphysic.) The fact is that the Death of the Author applies doubly to game designers - once a game's out in the wild and in someone's hands you don't have the designer right there to interpret them for you, all you have are dead words on a page that the participants have to interpret. I think Skarka and Wallis are radically underestimating the talent required on the part of performers to actually make a game session interesting for a non-participant to watch to begin with, and radically overestimating the capacity of a game designer to shape people's experience at the table. At the end of the day, especially with RPGs, all you are doing is handing the play group a packet of suggestions, and you aren't there to complain when they ignore them.
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Mar 13, 2018 14:38
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Plutonis posted:Maybe that dude's point is that tabletop devs and people who work on TRPGs as a whole don't have a strong union like the SAG and are paid in peanuts because of that??? Though given that both Skarka and Wallis self-publish a substantial chunk of their work they wouldn't necessarily benefit so much from one anyway. (Especially since Skarka isn't getting that much freelance work due to the Far West stink, and Matt Sprange has all but openly accused Wallis of being unprofessional concerning his Paranoia obligations.)
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Mar 13, 2018 14:41
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"Please! Won't someone stop these talented and entertaining people from advertising my games for free!"
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Mar 13, 2018 14:50
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dwarf74 posted:"Please! Won't someone stop these talented and entertaining people from advertising my games for free!"
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Mar 13, 2018 15:11
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You're right, he should be happy to be paid in exposure! ... in any case, it is part of a legitimate conundrum that creators face overall online whether it's RPG Streams, Let's Plays, fanart, etc., and other derivative works making a lot more money than the original product, or a lot of money in general. There isn't an easy answer, but it'd probably be more productive for him to reach out to the streamers in question and see if, say, they'd be interested in having him guest star or otherwise feature him in an interview or chat. I'd think most would be glad to have that sort of thing.
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Mar 13, 2018 15:18
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https://twitter.com/rdonoghue/status/973554324163919872?s=19 Rob Donohugh has much more gracious things to say about the matter (unsurprisingly ).
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Mar 13, 2018 15:23
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Evil Hat's gotten a lot of good exposure and sales increases from streaming games of Fate and Monster of the Week. (TAZ's MOTW mini-arc paid off by selling off their initial print run to the point they're doing reprints.)
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Mar 13, 2018 15:26
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The above about Alas Vegas is completely agreed - I can’t imagine it running coherently with rotating GMs as proposed in the book. Wallis occasionally shows up at my FLGS. He’s never been anything but encouraging to people playing Baron or any of his stuff, so I guess just emphasising that it is a book as opposed to just a random game to be learned by hearsay is what he wanted? Spyfall has a similar problem.
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Mar 13, 2018 15:31
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Alien Rope Burn posted:You're right, he should be happy to be paid in exposure! Presumably these folks have already bought the RPG and didn't get free copies.
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Mar 13, 2018 15:36
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Aren't high profile live-play podcasts, streams, and reviews what most people are explicitly hoping to generate when they send out promo copies?
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Mar 13, 2018 15:39
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dwarf74 posted:...no? pretty sure ARB is taking the piss
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Mar 13, 2018 15:43
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moths posted:Aren't high profile live-play podcasts, streams, and reviews what most people are explicitly hoping to generate when they send out promo copies? You'd think, especially when outside of WoTC, the marketing budget for RPGs is basically zero bucks.
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Mar 13, 2018 15:44
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slap me and kiss me posted:You'd think, especially when outside of WoTC, the marketing budget for RPGs is basically zero bucks. I know Pinnacle is, for example, delighted that the Saving Throw Show Twitch channel has a weekly Deadlands game.
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Mar 13, 2018 15:55
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Dawgstar posted:I know Pinnacle is, for example, delighted that the Saving Throw Show Twitch channel has a weekly Deadlands game. For sure. If I managed to get anything I'm working on carried by a popular podcast, I'd be thrilled, no matter how much money they (and not I) made from it.
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Mar 13, 2018 16:00
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Alien Rope Burn posted:You're right, he should be happy to be paid in exposure! There's a couple special advantages podcasts of tabletop rpgs have over video game lps or live reads of books. First, unless you're doing a premade adventure, your story is unique and you're not "spoiling" the plot to you're audience. It's not really that different from broadcasting an improv story or radio play because either way you're drawing in listeners who are there for your particular adventure. Second, a lot of those listeners are going to be interested in making their own story with the game and probably base a lot of how they play or GM it on how the podcast ran it. It's a great way to help teach the game to others. But people doing the podcasts should totally be providing links to buy the game from, if the author consents to it.
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Mar 13, 2018 16:06
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I don’t think most of the video game LPs I’ve watched have linked to the game, but maybe I’m misremembering.
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Mar 13, 2018 16:14
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I think that can be the reverse. What GMing works in a podcast may not work outside one, and what works for people with the talent to be successful podcasters might not work for anyone else.
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Mar 13, 2018 16:14
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