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weirdly chilly pussy posted:
Anytime I see someone steamrolling the absolute slog and horror show that is tomb, it makes me tear up a little bit
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Mar 12, 2018 18:10
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so when is norris going to get his domesticated wave? roxanne should get the ability to teleport into los of you whenever you go too far from her while on her level
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Mar 12, 2018 21:32
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Tollymain posted:roxanne should get the ability to teleport into los of you whenever you go too far from her while on her level 
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Mar 12, 2018 21:39
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right now there's just very little reason to interact with her, even moreso than other uniques. she doesn't really exert any pressure on the player at all beyond making you stay out of her los
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Mar 12, 2018 23:45
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Roxanne having teleportitis amuses me greatly, and for that reason alone it should happen.
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Mar 12, 2018 23:53
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Alternatively (or in addition to teleportitis) Roxanne could be like a Grotesque in Sil, a statue monster that can only move when it is not in your line of sight. EDIT: I just realized that wandering mushrooms already have this logic. But Wandering Mushrooms can't use blink other close followed by LCS on you, either. EDIT 2: BTW, if anyone in the thread is interested in learning how to make pull requests for Gooncrawl, covering everything from -compiling Crawl -how to read the code and figure out where you need to make your changes -using Github Desktop and opening a pull request I can help you figure it all out, hit me up on Discord: Patashu#8123 Patashu fucked around with this message at 03:54 on Mar 13, 2018 |
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Mar 13, 2018 01:15
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if we make a wandering mushroom unique it should be a new fedhas worshipper unique
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Mar 13, 2018 05:44
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Patashu posted:Alternatively (or in addition to teleportitis) Roxanne could be like a Grotesque in Sil, a statue monster that can only move when it is not in your line of sight.  Tollymain posted:if we make a wandering mushroom unique it should be a new fedhas worshipper unique
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Mar 13, 2018 06:01
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Patashu posted:Alternatively (or in addition to teleportitis) Roxanne could be like a Grotesque in Sil, a statue monster that can only move when it is not in your line of sight. I like this, just make sure that she's just the correct amount of aggressive with her teleporting, too much and she's becomes an annoyance. If you ignored her she would essentially turn into a horror movie monster stalking you around the level but never moving when you look at her, always just appearing at the edge of LoS. I'd also support more changes that continued to turn her into a horror movie monster, like blood appearing around her after she teleports.
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Mar 13, 2018 09:52
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roxanne following the player out of los seems just a little too much pressure, i think like, that's just oppressive e: have we had the debate yet about inventory size and whether or not it should be expanded or divided up or what have ye my personal opinion on that is it gets kind of annoying later in the game when i keep having my inventory fill up because i forgot to turn autopickup off for things but also i don't think player characters should be able to pick up the contents of the dungeon like some sort of human roomba either ee: i keep having more thoughts. sticky flame and clouds of flame should have -scroll and the same goes for -potions w clouds of ice and some cold spells Tollymain fucked around with this message at 11:05 on Mar 13, 2018 |
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Mar 13, 2018 10:42
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I'm for roomba mode since most of the time you can ctrl+f back to any stuff you had to dump anyway so having having infinite room for things is just a question of a chore and nothing more
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Mar 13, 2018 12:33
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Tollymain posted:if we make a wandering mushroom unique it should be a new fedhas worshipper unique It should be a unique oklob/thornhunter that moves like a wandering shroom. And seriously fedhas should be reworked to give nature-forms instead of allies, just throwing that out there again.
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Mar 13, 2018 12:53
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Tollymain posted:ee: i keep having more thoughts. sticky flame and clouds of flame should have -scroll and the same goes for -potions w clouds of ice and some cold spells I like this kind of thing, it's like how perma corrosion became a harsh but temporary tactical debuff, except item destruction got replaced with nothing. I remember there used to be an enemy (retching horror) that gave you -Potion, what happened to that? also RE inventory size, dcss-spicy has some code to double the inventory size to 104 items. It could be worth borrowing if people generally want a larger inventory. Patashu fucked around with this message at 13:18 on Mar 13, 2018 |
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Mar 13, 2018 13:16
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Has anyone suggested making food interesting by keeping the hunger timer but making each food type have a unique small buff. Meat gives a simple short term +1 strength, for instance. Other rarer foods give cooler unique buffs or abilities. Need a quick see inv? Scarf down one of those magic kumquats you been hording. Garlic surrounds you with an undead repellant field. Pizza gives you uh.... +1 unarmed skill I dunno. Also like the idea that eating the chunks of some enemies has a chance of temporarily infecting you with some of their abilities.
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Mar 13, 2018 13:21
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6203 posted:Has anyone suggested making food interesting by keeping the hunger timer but making each food type have a unique small buff. Meat gives a simple short term +1 strength, for instance. Other rarer foods give cooler unique buffs or abilities. Need a quick see inv? Scarf down one of those magic kumquats you been hording. Garlic surrounds you with an undead repellant field. Pizza gives you uh.... +1 unarmed skill I dunno. I would personally not be interested in micromanaging food like that. By which I mean I would be extremely anti-interested. It's not a good idea.
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Mar 13, 2018 13:44
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6203 posted:Also like the idea that eating the chunks of some enemies has a chance of temporarily infecting you with some of their abilities. Implement the mutant class from that old final fantasy game on gameboy. Eating corpses has a chance to change your abilities or base monster type.
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Mar 13, 2018 13:46
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i think powder does that thing w the corpses
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Mar 13, 2018 13:49
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baby delivery truck posted:Implement the mutant class from that old final fantasy game on gameboy. Eating corpses has a chance to change your abilities or base monster type. YES YES YES
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Mar 13, 2018 14:14
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baby delivery truck posted:Implement the mutant class from that old final fantasy game on gameboy. Eating corpses has a chance to change your abilities or base monster type. This, on the other hand, is a whole different thing that - wait baby delivery truck posted:Implement the mutant class from that old Okay there we go. This is a little better because my inventory doesn't get cluttered up with 10 kinds of meat chunks again if I just eat it when it drops and don't have to worry about regular satiation at the same time. 
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Mar 13, 2018 14:17
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Whenever you kill a monster you eat it automatically so there's no hoarding chunks. Than the downside is no magic involving corpses. OR whenever you kill a monster its DNA gets added to your bank, and whenever you eat chunks it has a chance to draw from a recently killed monster.
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Mar 13, 2018 14:58
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What about this: Various foods give you cool long term buffs that last until the food clock hits hungry again.
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Mar 13, 2018 15:37
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Players spend a significant amount of time optimizing their inventory but the game rarely produces a situation where survival is decided by the 52nd most important item in your inventory. Most things (healing, curing, blinking, teleportation...) are no-brainers. My solution would be that potions, scrolls, and evocables are moved to their own menus and given letters that stay constant between games. So you'd press q and see something like a - 2 potions of healing b - 3 potions of curing c - 1 potion of might ... A - 2 fizzy blue potions B - 1 gray potion ... These menus would also have shortcuts for controlling autopickup. For evocables it also solves the problem of a HOM doing optimization with wand stacking. Spellbooks would either be moved to [p]eruse (they're only in [r]ead for fluff/historical reasons anyway) or get a similar system where any spellbook that's walked over is automatically read and added to a spell library. Now that food has been consolidated and there's no more inventory optimization it could probably be moved to its own counter ("you have 2 chunks and 1 ration").
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Mar 13, 2018 17:10
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^^^^ This Just potions and scrolls would be easy to navigate and would free up all the inventory space you need for other equipment. Maybe wands, too? They already did it with books in Trunk and it's great. Tollymain posted:roxanne following the player out of los seems just a little too much pressure, i think Thalamas fucked around with this message at 17:33 on Mar 13, 2018 |
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Mar 13, 2018 17:30
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Having to spend 5 minutes out of every 15 scrolling through my inventory deciding what items i should drop is probably one of my main gripes with the game as it is now. It's just hella annoying and it's mostly completely meaningless, apart from that it might gently caress over newbies that drop the wrong things at the wrong times and forget the items exist.
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Mar 13, 2018 17:34
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I don't think food really needs to be changed substantially, never mind removed, because it does something important and strategically meaningful already: spell hunger. Hellcrawl kind of did a bad thing when they removed it, because they forgot about the fact that the point of the food clock isn't primarily to limit your ability to explore the dungeon. It's meant to give you a reason to ever use anything other than the strongest damage spell you can reliably cast. The thing about spell costs in Crawl is that MP cost and spell power don't increase in linear proportion to each other. A level 9 spell will cost nine times as much as a level 1 spell. It will, however, do far, far more damage than nine casts of any level 1 spell would, in addition to having additional tactical benefits like AOE or freeze effects. A single cast of Magic Dart costs 1 MP. Nine casts of it will let you kill one or two Yaktaurs, if you're lucky. A single cast of Firestorm costs 9 MP. One cast of it will let you clear entire rooms and spawns a bunch of chaff units while it's at it. It's pretty obvious from this kind of comparison that high-level spells are actually cheaper to cast in terms of damage-to-MP ratio than an equivalent volley of low-level spells would be. You do more damage faster and get a bigger bang for your buck. The biggest limiting factor on this is spell hunger, especially on low-int hybrid characters. It does so in two different ways: first of all, it makes you pay for that extra damage per turn by taking away a certain amount of turns you can spend to explore later before needing to resupply, which can hurt especially in the early and very late game. Second, it actively prevents you from casting spells with high food hunger once you drop past the threshold where you can afford them even if you still have MP left. This can be an issue especially in protracted fights, where you really want that all fast, powerful burst damage and can't just take a turn or more scarfing down food rations, limiting you to using the other and proportionally weaker spells as your disposal. So the issue there is that basically, every character in Hellcrawl can cast like they were a Mummy, which is to say use their most MP-to-damage efficient spell every time all the time without having the Mummy's biggest drawback of being unable to drink potions. There is no opportunity cost to doing so at all. You might as well drop Glaciates on every ant that you see so long as you have the MP to get away with it, because waiting for the regen costs you nothing. Since the Mummies' entire original gimmick was the ability to circumvent this cost, I think you guys can see how this changes the power dynamic of the game immensely. This kind of calculated trade-off is exactly the kind of meaningful strategic choice that Crawl is supposed to be about.
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Mar 13, 2018 17:58
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spider wisdom posted:Since I am bad at DCSS and restart constantly (though I just discovered gooncrawl and my overall game is better), I'm picking my character pretty often. Is there a reason in webtiles why I can't use numpad to select these things? Signed, Poor Player Uhh, late as hell response on this, but this is usually a num lock issue.
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Mar 13, 2018 19:01
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Cardiovorax posted:I don't think food really needs to be changed substantially, never mind removed, because it does something important and strategically meaningful already: spell hunger. I'm going to be blunt about this, but food still doesn't matter in this regard. There was, and still is, enough permafood and corpses in the game to sustain casting L8/L9 spells at low Spellcasting during every encounter without suffering consequences. I've done it while also worshipping Ely, which adds even more food costs on top. Food (for non-Gozag worshippers) only becomes an issue if you eat your permafood at any point above starving (especially if you do it when you could have eaten a corpse instead) or do metric fuckloads of backtracking and grinding. This is because food has to double as both an exploration timer AND an ability cost. There has to be enough available to cover both, or you are telling slower/less efficient players that they can't use most of the fun things in the game or risk running out of food later on for doing so. Hellcrawl cut food because it cut backtracking and XP grinding, meaning it was harder in the first place to get big abilities usable. This made experience a good strategic cost for abilities, and a tactical cost wasn't considered necessary. The thread said last survey that they don't want food removed, which I'm okay with. However, one recommendation I would throw out is to separate 'timer' food from 'ability' food to make it easier to balance both (as well as throw in the cool stuff like corpse intrinsics). Have permafood be the timer for how long you can spend in the dungeon (and tweak generation numbers around that), while corpses/butchering fuels abilities. It would need some tweaking with the species that revolve around food gimmicks, obviously.
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Mar 13, 2018 19:27
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Yeah maybe food as a game clock is interesting, and maybe food as an ability limiter is interesting, but they definitely shouldn't be the same thing. As floodkiller says, there's enough perma-food to spam L9 spells with low spellcasting, that's not really a limitation. It might still be interesting within the course of a single fight - becoming starving in the middle of a fight could be disastrous, but there's already something preventing you from casting big spells too much in a fight - your MP bar. Thus, to me, the game clock is the only actually valuable purpose of food remaining. I wonder what alternative ways we could have for pushing the player forward that aren't food. (The idea is to make it so waiting in a room for 1000 turns until a monster walks by at max range isn't optimal, like it is in DoomRL. I think that kinda works in doom but is bad for crawl.) Maybe you could scale monsters XP rewards by how long many turns you've spent on the floor they spawned on. This way monsters slowly decay to not giving any XP if you dilly-dally too much. You're incentivized to kill stuff when you see it. Jeffrey of YOSPOS fucked around with this message at 19:37 on Mar 13, 2018 |
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Mar 13, 2018 19:34
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Can we at least goldify food, i.e. when you pick up a ration or an enemy drops a corpse, your food stash number increases, and pressing 'e' just subtracts one from your stash counter and gives you some satiation. Mostly butchering corpses is super annoying when trying to come back from hellcrawl and I don't want to do it. This is a slight buff to necromancers but I don't care.
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Mar 13, 2018 19:34
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Higher level spells also have a vastly higher opportunity cost from skill training than lower ones. The spell difficulty increases exponentially, and so too does the xp cost of raising your skills as you get to higher level. A character with low int, bad apts and heavy armour can still cast level 1 and 2 spells with minimal xp investment, while a spellcasting focused character may still struggle to get a level 9 spell online in a 3 rune game.
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Mar 13, 2018 20:32
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e: double phone post
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Mar 13, 2018 20:45
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Hmm, casting higher level spells twice... double the effect... that might be an interesting buff
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Mar 13, 2018 20:46
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By the way, design poll will come when I'm available and willing enough to sit down and make it. I'm aiming to have it up at least before the weekend is over.
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Mar 13, 2018 20:59
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Cool species proposal for a 'easy to learn beginner spellcasting race', Faerie Dragon, over at the Tavern: https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=25195
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Mar 13, 2018 23:01
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not really surprised that there's already people going 'what about deep elf' which kind of ignores the idea behind the species in the first place
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Mar 14, 2018 00:44
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Patashu posted:Cool species proposal for a 'easy to learn beginner spellcasting race', Faerie Dragon, over at the Tavern: I'm extremely gay for this idea for both stylistic and gameplay reasons still needs a little bit something to keep them from getting completely pincushioned by the first centaur but other than that I'm hyped
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Mar 14, 2018 00:45
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I think this is a pretty cool idea, and I'm all for it.
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Mar 14, 2018 01:01
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ran upstairs from a fight, went back down a different staircase and got instantly blown up by azreal hurling damnation at me before I could even make an action. 0/10 would not recommend it.
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Mar 14, 2018 02:44
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baby delivery truck posted:ran upstairs from a fight, went back down a different staircase and got instantly blown up by azreal hurling damnation at me before I could even make an action. 0/10 would not recommend it. When you enter a new floor you wait 0.75 turns, but when you enter a floor you've seen before you wait 1.5 turns, so unless the first staircase is REALLY bad, you want to suck it up and keep using it, or poo poo like that can happen. (I've also had a recent 'second staircase into instant death' death.) No one wants to meet Azrael early either, he's a dick with his damnation.
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Mar 14, 2018 03:35
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| # ? Jun 8, 2024 17:33 |
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Patashu posted:When you enter a new floor you wait 0.75 turns, but when you enter a floor you've seen before you wait 1.5 turns, so unless the first staircase is REALLY bad, you want to suck it up and keep using it, or poo poo like that can happen. (I've also had a recent 'second staircase into instant death' death.) Yeah I'm not saying it's bad or unfair or anything, I knew the risk doing it. I just felt super overpowered with steam breath blocking LOS from everything and decided to clear d15 before I even started lair haha. But yeah going from 100+hp to 0 in one keystroke felt bad and I had to vent.
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Mar 14, 2018 03:52
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