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It's a lot less fun to actually figure out that 40 turn plan yourself though I imagine.
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Feb 25, 2018 21:10
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certain interesting individuals apparently do but i don't have the time or patience to reload that many times after getting completely hosed every turn
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Feb 25, 2018 21:17
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BrightWing posted:It's a lot less fun to actually figure out that 40 turn plan yourself though I imagine. Yep. Especially if you happened to miss a miniscule detail that completely derails your plan and forces you to do the entire fight all over again. Not only that, some of those fights have elements of RNG that will just screw you over if you don't rig the odds in your favor. Ur-Devil has a 50% chance of killing your entire party at the very end of the fight depending on the circumstances. Great boss design there. I really don't like Ur-Devil because that fight really feels out of place in an Etrian game, and demands that you do really weird stuff to get through his attacks. (hello forced row micromanagement) Ur-Child was just EO2U's awful boss design at its peak. Star Devourer was probably one of the few post-game superbosses that was actually well designed. Namely because it didn't demand you memorize a pattern and just asked you to deal with various wrenches that could be thrown into the fight. And the fight itself was fairly straightforward.
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Feb 25, 2018 21:25
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The more I look over it, the more it feels like Star Devourer and Amalgolem are pretty similar concepts, just the difference between "first boss in the game" and "very last boss in the game."
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Feb 25, 2018 22:37
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Violently Car posted:I made it. Read the general changelog and see if you think it sounds good. it sounds pretty good but can i still use the scylla glitch tho
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Feb 26, 2018 16:24
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Tired Moritz posted:it sounds pretty good but can i still use the scylla glitch tho No. The RNG has been made impossible to exploit in real time. I'm looking at adding other ways of getting experience (rare breeds, 6th stratum monsters having much larger EXP pools, post-game bosses granting substantially more EXP, etc.).
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Feb 26, 2018 20:45
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EO6 WHEN
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Feb 26, 2018 21:14
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Buffs the princesses, pirate class and the farmers and it would be even better.
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Feb 27, 2018 00:19
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Tired Moritz posted:Buffs the princesses, pirate class and the farmers and it would be even better. Oh, all the classes are remade to some extent (and further remakes are planned), but I didn't include those in the list because it's all very much in flux right now. The release I have right now is just an alpha.
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Feb 27, 2018 01:38
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My idea for EO3 was always to push monks harder towards fists/status/debuffs and prince(sse)s harder towards buffs. Make their unique abilities force them that way, instead of M/P always just being better than P/M. You'd just pick whichever one worked better for your party. If you figured you wouldn't need as much heal uptime you could go monk, for instance, so they can use their off turns with fist moves. As much as EO4 was easier I really appreciated that every class was useful and I'm glad EO5 seems to have pulled it off as well as long as you can build a party with synergies. I like EO3 but that was always my biggest problem with it over grinding and other issues, just straight that some classes are just flat outclassed by others. I guess you could say EO4 medics get outclassed by arcanists but unlike EO3 I never felt punished for running one over the other. I dunno. I'd probably try and add knuckles for monks and rework barehand into something else too. I'm just kinda rambling my ideas here though.
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Feb 27, 2018 02:17
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The issue with EO3's classes is that they're just incredibly weak overall. This makes it really easy for classes to become homogeneous because they have nothing unique to offer a party. EO2 had weak classes, but it also had really strong (and utterly broken) classes. Not only that, some mechanics were just badly balanced, which made some classes even worse. I suspect the main reason for the main classes being so weak is because of the entire subclassing system. Prince/ss: The skillset is fantastic. The issue is the main class doesn't have much to offer. The class skill isn't particularly fantastic, especially when TP recovery is really easy to get a hold of in this game. Essentially the Prince/ss has nothing to offer that a different class subclassing Prince/ss couldn't already do. Gladiator: The only good attacking class in this game. If we're comparing nothing but main classes, no class even comes close to what a Gladiator can offer a party. Berserker Vow and Charge increases their damage output vastly, and is pretty much needed to let the other classes even compete. This is a big problem with the class balance in this game, since physical attacking classes need a Gladiator subclass to even function because they're too weak without it, which can make things homogeneous since all of them essentially become different flavors of Gladiators. Hoplite: One of the best support classes in the game. Going without one is simply madness due to the sheer amount of survivability they grant a party. Also doesn't help that they're one of the few classes that can pay the skill tax required to actually fight a few of the post-game bosses, unless you feel like being wiped out by a strong elemental nuke on the first turn. Buccaneer: Pincushion is the only good offensive skill they have. Their main gimmick, the Chasers, are worthless since they're terrible. Chasers demand that you build a party around one specific damage type,and due to the way the classes are designed, you can't really build a party around multiple chasers. This also has the issue of stone walling your party if an enemy happens to resist the particular damage type you build your chaser party around. This means that they essentially don't have an early and mid-game presence. They also need a Gladiator subclass to actually function as a physical attacker. Ninja: This is one of the classes in the game that I would say that suffers from a rather big issue the classes in this game have. That they were designed from a thematic standpoint instead of a gameplay standpoint. As for what I mean, there is no cohesiveness to the Ninja's class design, no clear role that it is supposed to take. Instead, a bunch of its skills are based off of things actual Ninjas can do with very little consideration to the gameplay implications. Ninjas have a respectable STR stat... that is completely undermined by the fact that all their skills require a knife to make use of, and knives are one of the weakest weapon types in the game. And due to how the damage formula works, that is a very big deal. Oh and if you want to use them as a physical attacker, they need a Gladiator subclass to function. Also they have access to a bunch of disable skills, but disables in EO3 are awful for several reasons. Monk: A fantastic healing support thanks to how powerful Form Qi is. And they're not actually that fragile. Their VIT is on par with the Buccaneer's, and with how badly armor got nerfed in this game, the difference between heavy armor and light armor might as well be non-existent. So they are capable of front lining if you really wanted them to. Unfortunately, their fist skill tree is really bad. Due to the way fists scale, punch Monks are actually strong in the first Stratum... then are really bad for the rest of the game until post-game comes around, at which point it becomes good again. Of course if you even want to use a punch Monk, they need a Gladiator or Zodiac subclass to function. Zodiac: Strong in the early-game (mainly thanks to all those enemies that basically force you to use a Zodiac to kill them in a timely manner), decent in the mid-game, starts falling off late-game. Post-game, they better be using Meteor, due to the utterly bizarre fact that elemental damage barely has any ways to be boosted. The ways you can buff elemental damage are Charge Tactic, (which is a limit skill and is only a 25% damage boost), Wolf Howl, and... Fore Honor. Yeah, that's pretty dire. Meteor is their best skill because it's physical and that it can be boosted by buffs. Of course if you want to make use of Meteor and let them be a physical attacker, they need a Gladiator subclass to function. Wildling: They suffer from a numerous amount of issues. Now the summons aren't necessarily bad, and Ninja clones don't actually offer that much outside of Tagen Battou. So the summons are fairly on par with the clones there. Unfortunately, subclassing throws that out the window, as that lets other classes clone themselves. For one thing, having a Hoplite clone offers so much more than any other summon could ever hope to live up to. 2 of one class without actually having 2 of that class in the party just overshadows what anything else can do. Then there's what happened with disables. Since accumulative resistance is permanent now, that means Wildlings have an expiration date because all the big enemies are incredibly resistant to disables (which may last for only 2 turns if you're unlucky) and can never be used again. And given that landing ailments is an utter crapshoot because the big enemies are incredibly resistant to them, that means animals aren't good for much other than being meatshields. Which the Hoplite is much better at. Wildlings would actually be a fairly decent class on their own. But they get screwed over by several mechanics in the game, that it's just not worth using one over the other options. As it stands, they don't get the chance to truly shine unless the game lets them. Arbalist: Needs a Gladiator or Zodiac subclass to function. Otherwise a decent backline attacker or a real glass cannon that needs to be babysat if you choose to go with the Front Mortar build. Farmer: A joke class. Considering that field skills are very limited in usefulness (the real threats in the series are the battles, and they have very little to offer there), there is very little reason to use one outside of a gathering party. Shogun: Outside of Warrior Might, they didn't have much going for them. Another class that I would argue that suffers from the "theming" class design, though they don't have it nearly as bad as the Ninja or Yggdroid. They have a workable skillset, it's just a lot of it is fairly incomprehensible at first glance. The only real thing of note is that they have access to the most broken skill in the game, Warrior Might, a chase skill that cannot fail, and chases everything. Oh and if you want to use one as a physical attacker, they need a Gladiator subclass to function. Yggdroid: lmfao.
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Feb 27, 2018 02:40
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So is Botanists healing ability much like Medic in 4 where it was nice to have for a bit but kind of not needed after a bit? Because i'm kinda starting to feel this in 3th Stratum. What would be a good replacement back liner that can do damage but also keep up heals for the group?
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Feb 27, 2018 07:55
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HOOLY BOOLY posted:So is Botanists healing ability much like Medic in 4 where it was nice to have for a bit but kind of not needed after a bit? You could always go the Celestrian Poisoner Botanist route - Celestrians have enough WIS to heal but also enough LUC to actually land ailments and the INT to make Smoke Bomb worth the hassle. Sadly they are pretty slow. So in a way they are similar to an Arcanist/Medic from EOIV although with fewer tools. But a pure Healer Botanist has something EOIV Medic never had: Herb Boost, an overheal passive that maxes out at +33% maxHP. This is one of the best defensive tools since it needs no buff/debuff slot and also doesn't need a turn to set up since it works with all of your heals. If you use a Brouni (which you should for a pure healer) even Bountiful Herb comes out pretty fast - an AGI accessory might be more useful than a WIS accessory, though. But if you are confident that you can survive one turn without Herb Boost you can guarantee it coming out early next turn with Delayed Herb. If you have an attack debuff or a defence buff a Healer Botanist alone is enough to keep you alive through most things the game throws at you (as long as your low LUC Brouni doesn't get disabled) so the other four party members can go on the offensive.
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Feb 27, 2018 08:42
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Did anyone ever make a good overview/review of the eov classes like this? I know Ragnar Homsar made a really good breakdown of what each class does, but it would be good to compare how well each class performs as well as maybe some guidelines for party composition.
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Mar 6, 2018 20:41
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hostess with the Moltres posted:Did anyone ever make a good overview/review of the eov classes like this? I know Ragnar Homsar made a really good breakdown of what each class does, but it would be good to compare how well each class performs as well as maybe some guidelines for party composition. I don't think so and if one exists I am not sure how concise it would or even could be. Because Atlus got way, way better at making these games. In EOIII many skills were trash. Some classes were barely usable outside of a single build (/Gladiator fixes everything!). In EOV only a few skills are outright bad (Sonic Blade - lul). Many are only slightly overshadowed or even worse: situational. Some skills utterly suck in most parties but shine in others. For example: Counter Guard is not all that good in a normal party. Only 33% percent physical damage reduction instead of Line Guard's 50% and you get at most a 300% damage counter from a class with average STR (assuming Earthlain) with a bad weapon. Ok-ish at best in random encounters, dumb against bosses and FOEs. But it can be infused by Prayers and Oils meaning it can deal mixed elemental damage. So it is able to activate Chains. In a dedicated elemental Chain party another activation is worth a ton. So Counter Guard goes from "low reduction for mediocre damage" to "another activation with damage reduction attached" and is suddenly great. I played through EOV multiple times to test all 20 classes throughout the game. And yes, it's actually 20 classes. I found no two Masteries played the same - even Dragoon who has the most important skills in the base class becomes quite different. It took a ton of time and I still haven't tried out everything. I completely ignored stuff like Chain Killer or Hell Slash parties. Also I am still not sure about how to use all the classes properly. Especially dodge Fencer seems really particular about what you build when since they are always playing with fire. It's entirely possible that someone has a way better insight than me into what works best for classes but it seems hard since so many classes have so many good tools. The only guideline would probably be: If you want the bosses to be easy, bring a Celestrian for Chain Blast and lots of damage.
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Mar 6, 2018 21:44
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Re: dodge fencers - I strongly believe that Ray of Light is the way to go. There are simply too many effects that disable evasion - with Ray of Light, your fencer can still contribute meaningfully in such cases without worrying about stiff breezes. At the very least, going full streaker build leaves the fencer without all the stats that come with armor/accessories. Not to say nudism is bad or has no place, but RoL seems more versatile by far for most parties.
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Mar 7, 2018 09:13
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I might be slow, but I just noticed that on the floor-select screen in EOV, the background scrolls to show where on the tree that stratum is- Forest is among the roots leading up to the tree, the Reach is the rocky spikes where the roots lead back into the tree itself, the 3rd looks like it finally goes inside, 4th is just climbing up the innards, 5th is up top, among the boughs, and I assume 6th is just flat-out above the tree. I thought it was interesting, in light of an earlier discussion about where the different strata even were.
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Mar 10, 2018 20:48
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Yup, right at the start of the game they pan out over Yggdrassil and you can clearly identify each strata!
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Mar 10, 2018 22:05
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I know EO2U is meant to be better than the first one, but EOU is a lot cheaper right now. Is it worth getting or should I just save up for 2? (I've already played IV and V)
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Mar 12, 2018 23:29
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il_cornuto posted:I know EO2U is meant to be better than the first one, but EOU is a lot cheaper right now. Is it worth getting or should I just save up for 2? (I've already played IV and V) From what I've seen and played of both of them, EOU is probably not worth the discount. Unless it's under $10.
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Mar 13, 2018 00:13
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It's £8.99, so about $12.50, compared to 2U's £34.99, but if it's that bad I'll probably pass.
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Mar 13, 2018 00:17
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eou is actually a really good game, just don't play story because it blows
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Mar 13, 2018 00:28
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EOU is fine. Story mode is hilariously bad though.
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Mar 13, 2018 00:36
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EOU is still a good entry. Story party is forgettable but pretty strong. And you should see the Grimoire mechanic as a bonus. Forcefully generating them will give subpar results until very late in the game. But the rest is still an EO game - varied classes, dangerous enemies, labyrinths full of enemies. Although it's the EO I played the least I still played and replayed both modes - well worth the price in my book. Oh and EOU Expert is probably the hardest the franchise has to offer. It's quite a step up from EOIV and EOV difficulty.
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Mar 13, 2018 00:38
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I'm wavering but I thought of the easiest way to determine if I want to get it - is it better than Persona Q? I probably wouldn't buy a game that was only as good as Persona Q again, it was just barely good enough to play IMO.
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Mar 13, 2018 00:43
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It’s way better than persona Q. Like, not even close.
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Mar 13, 2018 00:55
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Sold, then, thanks everyone.
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Mar 13, 2018 00:57
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Uhhh EOU story mode has Raquna, who rules. Y'all are getting the two games mixed up. Its EOU2's story party that sucks poo poo
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Mar 13, 2018 12:33
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Story mode is fun in both games eff the haters
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Mar 13, 2018 14:47
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Nothing is better than my imagination
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Mar 13, 2018 15:22
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Jimmy Hats posted:Its EOU2's story party that sucks poo poo Out of curiosity, do you mean character-wise or balance-wise?
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Mar 13, 2018 17:28
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Efe posted:Out of curiosity, do you mean character-wise or balance-wise? I mean, both, but emphatically the former. Chloe is the fuckkin worst
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Mar 13, 2018 18:06
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Jimmy Hats posted:I mean, both, but emphatically the former. Chloe is the fuckkin worst Bert is the second-best after Raquna, though.
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Mar 13, 2018 18:11
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Jimmy Hats posted:I mean, both, but emphatically the former. Chloe is the fuckkin worst
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Mar 13, 2018 18:36
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Batigh posted:Bert is the second-best after Raquna, though. Hmm true. Basically protectors rule.
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Mar 13, 2018 19:04
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So finally getting around to working through EO4 after putting it off since it came out and I have been wondering a few things about class/subclass selection. First, Medic/Arcanist or Arcanist/Medic? If one isn't just kinda flat out better then the other than what are the benefits towards one over the other? Second, if I have an Arcanist is a bind focused Sniper still a good idea or should I be replacing them with something that doesn't have as much overlap? Lastly, what are some good subclass ideas for Sniper and Fortress? I will say, even after the QoL additions from the EOU games returning to 4 just feels really good.
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Mar 14, 2018 13:06
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EO4 rules. I think the rule of thumb is never to have arcanist be the main class but i never really liked that class anyways so im not the expert on it.
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Mar 14, 2018 13:48
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Jimmy Hats posted:EO4 rules. No arcanist main class is great. An arcanist/medic will have way more utility with a bit of emergency direct heals.
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Mar 14, 2018 14:26
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Black Mage Knight posted:First, Medic/Arcanist or Arcanist/Medic? Arcanist/Medic is usually considered the better one. Medic has subpar LUC so all the binds and ailments the Arcanist has won't land all that well. Medic also heals too much. Since there is no overheal the main strength of Medic is just wasted as the HP spill over. Arcanist has two problems: They are a bit slow (although not THAT much slower than Medic). And they have so many good skills that they are constantly starved for skill points, especially when the Medic's box of tools is also offered to them. Black Mage Knight posted:Second, if I have an Arcanist is a bind focused Sniper still a good idea or should I be replacing them with something that doesn't have as much overlap? Oh hey - you know how your Arcanist might safe some skill points? If they don't learn any binds because your Sniper has you covered there. I think they work well together. If you can reliably disable enemies Squall Volley is a great damage skill so your Sniper can easily deal good damage and bind.
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Mar 14, 2018 15:53
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loving hell 5 fencers suck at amalgolem suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck
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Mar 24, 2018 00:02
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