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And that's why we use the law to reduce the incidence of drunk driving 
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Mar 13, 2018 16:11
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WampaLord posted:Twodot, if you would like to talk about drunk driving, maybe start a different thread for that. QuarkJets posted:So while an alcoholic is more likely to die from complications related to alcohol consumption than in a mass shooting, they're still going to place greater concern on mass shootings because they can choose to stop drinking but they don't get to choose whether to be shot.
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Mar 13, 2018 16:13
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twodot posted:Yo QuarkJets made a claim, they even made it in bold: I guess it is a good thing people want to more strictly regulate alcohol then. Now onto the regulation of guns, since we can do more than one thing at once.
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Mar 13, 2018 17:19
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twodot posted:Yo QuarkJets made a claim, they even made it in bold: two "if i focus real hard on one offhand comparison they said that might be wrong, i have won" dot
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Mar 13, 2018 17:31
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Dead Reckoning posted:We as a society say, "meh, not worth it" for a lot of other deaths, and often deaths in far greater quantity than those that result from mass shootings. Almost, but not quite, completely immaterial to the discussion at hand, because: 1. There is no meaningful analog for guns. They have specific characteristics, and those unique characteristics are the focus of our objections. 2. loving up somewhere else doesn't make it OK to gently caress up here. Dead Reckoning posted:Even if you have convinced yourself that guns have zero positive utility, the "no utility, causes death, therefore it is right and logical to ban it" argument falls flat in a society that allows the recreational consumption of alcohol. I'm confused why you think mass shooting deaths are especially bad deaths vs all others. That's an incomplete / inaccurate summary of our argument to make it easier for you to attack. Again. Guns primary purpose is to destroy things. They are exceptionally good at destroying humans. They give a single person the ability to quickly and repeatedly destroy other humans. Certain types give people the ability to kill a lot of people faster than others. The ethical calculus of cars and alcohol do not feature this trait. It is a uniquely disqualifying trait. The ethical calculus of cars and alcohol is certainly worth talking about; It seems quite evident to me that cars are a grossly inefficient mode of transport, not sustainable, and frankly humans are generally too loving stupid to use them safely, but it's extremely difficult to categorically ban them without a replacement tool to move humans around as quickly. Their use should be restricted, licensed, and regulated, with an aim to replace them as soon as possible. Alcohol is a recreational drug. Agency and the ability to risk self-harm for a brief period of increased feel-good brain activity, weighed against the social cost, is an absolutely valid discussion to have, but it has absolutely no bearing on guns. Your argument is a weak strawman via lovely analogies and whataboutism. I'll have to address your apparent indifference to mass shootings in another post. I'm having trouble concisely articulating how loving incredulous I am that you don't see any distinctive characteristics about events where people systematically hunt down and kill as many other people as possible. I'll need a minute on that whopper of a question. r.y.f.s.o. fucked around with this message at 18:04 on Mar 13, 2018 |
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Mar 13, 2018 18:01
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twodot posted:Yo QuarkJets made a claim, they even made it in bold:  Yes let's just ignore that I was responding to Dead Reckoning's post, which ended in a complaint about recreational alcohol claiming too many lives. You illiterate clown. Were those who died from alcohol consumption forced to drink, at gunpoint? Hmm maybe there's a link to the thread after all
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Mar 13, 2018 18:52
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Okay, they have a point. We shouldn't solve gun violence by raising alcohol consumption. Wait, no one suggested that? This was all a pointless derail? Huh.
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Mar 13, 2018 21:36
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I like the idea of raising alcohol consumption. Too drunk to shoot has merit as a harm reduction strategy.
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Mar 13, 2018 21:59
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If you outlaw drunk driving only criminals will drive drunk!
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Mar 13, 2018 22:05
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The only thing that can stop a bad guy with a drunk driver is a good guy with a drunk driver.
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Mar 13, 2018 22:15
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twodot posted:
Excuse me, but are you not aware that styrofoam is legal to use, and even the most restrictive jurisdictions in the US don't make it illegal to have it? Like San Francisco has the most things banned for it, and even that's just use for food/drink/medicine packaging. You can still use it in roads, in buildings, in all sorts of other things from packaging computers to making coolers. And it doesn't even "suck" it's just not particularly ideal for certain situations.
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Mar 14, 2018 03:02
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fishmech posted:Excuse me, but are you not aware that styrofoam is legal to use, and even the most restrictive jurisdictions in the US don't make it illegal to have it? Like San Francisco has the most things banned for it, and even that's just use for food/drink/medicine packaging. You can still use it in roads, in buildings, in all sorts of other things from packaging computers to making coolers.
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Mar 14, 2018 03:05
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twodot posted:Oh cool, I didn't know that, just that it was effectively removed from my personal experience by legislation, thanks for the explanation. It wasn't though? You're likely still using styrofoam all the time. It's likely enough in the car you drive or somewhere in the transit you use. Where you work and where you live are likely as not to be full of it. You probably are using a bunch of electronics right now that were packaged in it. Meanwhile actual styrofoam use had dropped out of a lot of things like disposable cups and egg cartons and fast food containers long ago, no legislation required, because alternate materials, some visually indistinguishable from styrofoam, were generally cheaper and easier to use instead. Some things dropped it all together like how a lot of the fast food packaging that was styrofoam in like the 1970s has slowly transitioned to being paper wrappers and cardboard cases and plastic cups by now. You should probably not post straight up lies in this thread.
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Mar 14, 2018 05:37
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fishmech posted:It wasn't though? You're likely still using styrofoam all the time. It's likely enough in the car you drive or somewhere in the transit you use. Where you work and where you live are likely as not to be full of it. You probably are using a bunch of electronics right now that were packaged in it.
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Mar 14, 2018 06:11
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Teacher/cop in CA put a kid in the hospital yesterday during a gun safety demonstration at school. Add one to the school shootings tally.
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Mar 14, 2018 13:41
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Excuse me, I think you'll find that's not a "school shooting" but a "shooting at a school" and doesn't count towards the overall discussion for [reasons, help me out here, anyone? DR? twodot?] I had a cop teacher in college, and it was him / his class that convinced persuaded me to support gun control. He was part of LEAP (Law Enforcement Against  Prohibition) and talked a lot of poo poo on other cops and retired because, basically, ACAB.It was a civics class which turned into mostly him telling stories and giving us good advice on how to avoid / deal with the police.
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Mar 14, 2018 14:51
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Cops develop a lot of really awful gun handling habits and are consistently the scariest shooters at any range.
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Mar 14, 2018 15:09
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Rent-A-Cop posted:Teacher/cop in CA put a kid in the hospital yesterday during a gun safety demonstration at school. Do these people not understand that snap caps/dummy rounds exists, jfc.
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Mar 14, 2018 16:47
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Kibbles n Shits posted:Do these people not understand that snap caps/dummy rounds exists, jfc. To answer your question: They are cops, so probably no.
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Mar 14, 2018 16:49
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America's responsible gun owners, responsibly gun-owning once again 
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Mar 14, 2018 16:51
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VitalSigns posted:America's responsible gun owners, responsibly gun-owning once again
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Mar 14, 2018 16:55
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It's all the gubberment, private gun-owners are responsible  *meanwhile a middle school teacher barricades himself in the classroom and starts shooting*
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Mar 14, 2018 17:17
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Which thread keeps buying you fun new titles?
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Mar 14, 2018 17:19
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Rent-A-Cop posted:Which thread keeps buying you fun new titles? The centrists in the Trump thread apparently get really mad about people actually thinking things could be better and having the moral fortitude to express that belief.
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Mar 14, 2018 17:24
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Rent-A-Cop posted:Someone link the video of the DEA agent shooting himself in the leg in front of a bunch of kids. I would but I'm phone posting. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzHEOSyMqug "I'm the only one in this room professional enough to carry the Glock 40" shoots self
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Mar 14, 2018 17:27
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r.y.f.s.o. posted:Excuse me, I think you'll find that's not a "school shooting" but a "shooting at a school" and doesn't count towards the overall discussion for [reasons, help me out here, anyone? DR? twodot?] Not mentally ill, doesnt count
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Mar 14, 2018 17:28
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r.y.f.s.o. posted:Excuse me, I think you'll find that's not a "school shooting" but a "shooting at a school" and doesn't count towards the overall discussion for [reasons, help me out here, anyone? DR? twodot?] Elizabethan Error posted:because bullets zinging around the physicality of schools is a sub-optimal situation, whether the end result is death or injury. sorry you're too focused on the numbers to see what's actually going on
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Mar 14, 2018 17:35
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Kibbles n Shits posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzHEOSyMqug
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Mar 14, 2018 17:45
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twodot posted:I've always maintained that "literally anytime a gun shoots a bullet on any school anywhere for any reason" was a coherent definition of school shooting, I just wanted to understand what people thought the utility of it was. Turns out the answer was: As dumb as not being able to correctly identify which of two numbers is greater than the other, as you demonstrated twice last week?
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Mar 14, 2018 18:38
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twodot posted:People didn't want to actually talk about outcomes of people shooting guns or the motivations of people shooting guns, just people shooting guns in particular geographies. I think that's dumb, but it's coherent, and I have no real argument against it. That's an impressive amount of wrongness in so few words. It's not the geography, mate, it's the fuckin' kids. Turns out people love kids.
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Mar 14, 2018 18:39
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r.y.f.s.o. posted:Turns out people love (white, American) kids.
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Mar 14, 2018 18:42
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Rent-A-Cop posted:ftfy This is absolutely a fair criticism of the the public's delay in action on this issue. America is, generally speaking, racist AF.
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Mar 14, 2018 18:56
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r.y.f.s.o. posted:That's an impressive amount of wrongness in so few words. twodot fucked around with this message at 19:34 on Mar 14, 2018 |
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Mar 14, 2018 19:30
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twodot posted:I mean the person I quoted was very explicit about it being geography and not kids You're referring to Elizabethan error, who at this moment, cannot clarify this, correct?
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Mar 14, 2018 19:59
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Ahh yes, the completely unwarranted and ridiculous opinion of "maybe bullets shouldn't be flying around in schools???". Gee why would anyone consider these arguments dishonest, I just don't get it.
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Mar 14, 2018 20:13
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QuarkJets posted:As dumb as not being able to correctly identify which of two numbers is greater than the other, as you demonstrated twice last week? also just going around thinking styrofoam was banned
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Mar 14, 2018 22:08
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Raise the price of guns and bullets. A well regulated militia should be able to afford that and gun taxes.
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Mar 14, 2018 22:16
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twodot posted:I mean the person I quoted was very explicit about it being geography and not kids, so it makes sense they care about shootings that happen on some specific geography and not the outcome or motive of the shooting. If you care about kids, but want to talk about shootings that happen on specific geographies without regard to whether any kids were in any possible danger, that's a contradiction you'll need to resolve for yourself. Hmm perhaps there's some demographic that more commonly frequents the geography of "a school" than other demographics? Could it be janitors?
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Mar 14, 2018 22:21
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Every post I read by twobot sounds like a robotic voice in my head and also makes me die a little inside Also ban guns The 2nd amendment doesn’t explicitly give you the right to own guns, only weaponry SWORDS ONLY FINAL DESTINATION
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Mar 14, 2018 22:28
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QuarkJets posted:Hmm perhaps there's some demographic that more commonly frequents the geography of "a school" than other demographics? Cops, soon
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Mar 14, 2018 22:47
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