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Your character starts with medium racism, but over time you level up to being not racist against Conquistadors.
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Mar 13, 2018 21:44
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| # ? May 14, 2024 04:21 |
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:You're now accusing a Mexican writer who wanted to do an alternate history RPG of grovelling to the conquistadors. And you think you're being clever. Just pointing out he's not being clever. I say this as a Latino. Him being Mexican doesn't shield him from bad taste. Guy Goodbody posted:Your character starts with medium racism, but over time you level up to being not racist against Conquistadors. I will play as Woke the Spaniard. I will be "one of the good ones" when I get enough points. Bombadilillo fucked around with this message at 21:49 on Mar 13, 2018 |
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Mar 13, 2018 21:44
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Bieeanshee posted:Social interactions are shaped by a TOLERANCE AND PREJUDICE system. We want you to feel like your character belongs to this harsh era, so they'll start flawed and prejudiced, but the upgrade of the Tolerance skill can be used to create a natural arc away from bigotry. For one skill point I’ll be less racist... for five skill points I’ll be extremely less racist...
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Mar 13, 2018 21:55
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Oh god, this again. Unless they did substantial rewrites over the original version it's bad people. It's like if I write a game about the conquest of Ireland I don't get a pass if I make the British the good guys just because I'm irish. Hamfisted morality and playable conquistadors do not mix. Hard pass.
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Mar 13, 2018 22:08
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Companies based in Spain  Literally have no clue how Spain views conquistadors. But to be playable? Jesus Cristo
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Mar 13, 2018 22:09
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What's bizarre to me is that Deadlands kept the Confederacy around and lets players be playable Confederate heroes (not that I ever allow that) and virtually nobody cares, nobody called out the Doomtown Kickstarter for it and barely criticizes Deadlands for it. I guess because it just faded into the background? But whatever, clearly the writers of Dragons Conquer America were not up to the task of convincing y'all that their alternate history RPG about dragons was up to navigating these morally hazardous waters. I can't deny they put their worst foot forward and gave people plenty of room to interpret them negatively...it's now a punching bag...too bad. I hope people take the right lessons from this.
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Mar 13, 2018 22:41
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deadlands is extremely bad tho
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Mar 13, 2018 22:45
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Serf posted:deadlands is extremely bad tho It's also all kinds of racist.
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Mar 13, 2018 22:47
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:What's bizarre to me is that Deadlands kept the Confederacy around and lets players be playable Confederate heroes (not that I ever allow that) and virtually nobody cares Are you fuckin kidding me? Deadlands has in fact gotten flak for its "oh well slavery just ~spontaneously ended~ because of reasons I guess" handwaving away of the subject matter in the past, it's also a 22 year old game and this one is brand new being Kickstarted in 2018.
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Mar 13, 2018 22:48
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Kwyndig posted:It's also all kinds of racist. exactly what i mean but apparently there is an insufficient amount of calling out of deadlands, so lets work on that let me be the first to say: hosed up, deadlands
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Mar 13, 2018 22:51
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Serf posted:deadlands is extremely bad tho Yeah basically the answer to why Deadlands isn't called out is: it is, and it has been, and literally everything on the topic has been said, repeatedly, since the late 90s. Deadlands manifestly doesn't care.
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Mar 13, 2018 22:51
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I think there was some type of fight over slavery, I don't know, I'm no historian. I like to think we worked it out amicably. *rolls Confederate*
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Mar 13, 2018 22:51
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:What's bizarre to me is that Deadlands kept the Confederacy around and lets players be playable Confederate heroes (not that I ever allow that) and virtually nobody cares, nobody called out the Doomtown Kickstarter for it and barely criticizes Deadlands for it. I guess because it just faded into the background? I didn't see this one. It would probably have poo poo on it too. You don't seem to get that, even with dragons around, a literal woke-meter between indigenous peoples and the conquistadors is in the worst taste and should be punching baged.
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Mar 13, 2018 22:53
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I'm pretty sure that Deadlands was in large part responsible for the bit in Benjamin Baugh's Kerberos Club where the Confederacy in that particular alt-history-with-magic setting is explicitly called out as not being some romanticized land of refined gentlemen and ladies but as a bunch of slave-owning assholes whose society eventually implodes under its own corruption and ineptitude even if left alone.
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Mar 13, 2018 22:55
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Kai Tave posted:Are you fuckin kidding me? Deadlands has in fact gotten flak for its "oh well slavery just ~spontaneously ended~ because of reasons I guess" handwaving away of the subject matter in the past, it's also a 22 year old game and this one is brand new being Kickstarted in 2018. Why would anyone want slavery in their motherfuckin’ game about Cowboys vs Zombies? It’s a fantasy game, so why not focus on good times instead of seriously asking yourself about whether or not it’s okay for a racist NPC to use racist slurs on a black PC, who is probably played by your Chinese friend? Besides, slavery ended in Deadlands because it promoted the weird zombie poo poo?
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Mar 13, 2018 22:55
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Bedlamdan posted:Why would anyone want slavery in their motherfuckin’ game about Cowboys vs Zombies? It’s a fantasy game, so why not focus on good times instead of seriously asking yourself about whether or not it’s okay for a racist NPC to use racist slurs on a black PC, who is probably played by your Chinese friend? Did they change that recently? For the longest time their reason for slavery ending was because it was Jefferson Davis' intention all along. At least until he was killed and replaced with a doppelgänger that perpetuated the practice to cause dissent. Then after it was killed it was ended by his Vice President, you know the guy that gave the Cornerstone of the Confederacy speech. Macdeo Lurjtux fucked around with this message at 23:04 on Mar 13, 2018 |
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Mar 13, 2018 23:00
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Bedlamdan posted:Why would anyone want slavery in their motherfuckin’ game about Cowboys vs Zombies? It’s a fantasy game, so why not focus on good times instead of seriously asking yourself about whether or not it’s okay for a racist NPC to use racist slurs on a black PC, who is probably played by your Chinese friend? you probably wouldn't want that, in which case you shouldn't alt-history the loving confederacy back into existence
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Mar 13, 2018 23:02
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Bombadilillo posted:You don't seem to get that, even with dragons around, a literal woke-meter between indigenous peoples and the conquistadors is in the worst taste and should be punching baged. We don't know that's how it works, it might not be making literal friends with the Conquistadors. Aztecs poo poo on lots of other Mexicali people, you know. It might be directed internally, that's the problem, they put this controversial aspect front-and-center and allowed people to read "it means making friends with the goddamn Conquistadors? Are you kidding me?" And yeah if it actually works like that, it sucks. I mean it's a dumb concept no matter what, but it extra-sucks if it's a Bootlicker Friendship Gauge.
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Mar 13, 2018 23:02
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Macdeo Lurjtux posted:Did they change that recently? For the longest time their reason for slavery ending was because it was Jefferson Davis' intention all along. It really depends. In one version it was because of pressure from the British, who they wanted to buddy up with.
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Mar 13, 2018 23:02
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I'm not sure my tolerance is sufficiently leveled up to put up with this game.
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Mar 13, 2018 23:05
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In other Kickstarter news, Hannah Shaffer (previous creator of Questlandia; Noirlandia; drat The Man, Save The Music and maybe some other things) has launched a board game Kickstarter about dogs versus zombies.
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Mar 13, 2018 23:06
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Jeb Bush 2012 posted:you probably wouldn't want that, in which case you shouldn't alt-history the loving confederacy back into existence It’s at least a decent way of at least showing that the Union is now hosed, and things are now a big mess. See also how Shadowrun brought back the Confederacy too, with their fuckin’ flag and everything.
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Mar 13, 2018 23:08
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The Western genre, and derivatives thereof, has always contained a degree of Confederate apologia; "heroic and honorable Confederate veteran living as a masterless man out West" is a pretty stock protagonist figure. If people gave Deadlands slack, it's possibly because of that genre precedent. Honestly, I would be okay with the Tolerance Gauge thing if it were strictly in relation to other Mesoamerican nations, both to understand them and to work together productively, form alliances, etc. It shouldn't cost advancement points, because forcing players to spend advancement to make their characters less assholish is never a good call, but sure, make cultural exchange and mutual respect a thing you have to develop. Conquistadors ain't nobody's buddies, though.
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Mar 14, 2018 05:12
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Bedlamdan posted:It’s at least a decent way of at least showing that the Union is now hosed, and things are now a big mess. See also how Shadowrun brought back the Confederacy too, with their fuckin’ flag and everything. Shadowrun's Confederacy, though, isn't a 'we brought back a slave state!' thing, it's 'the US as a political entity collapsed because the native peoples rose up and demonstrated they had the magical equivalent of nuclear weapons, and took half the land mass in the treaty that kept them from using them'. The South seceded after the US merged with Canada to form the UCAS.
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Mar 14, 2018 05:42
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Liquid Communism posted:Shadowrun's Confederacy, though, isn't a 'we brought back a slave state!' thing, it's 'the US as a political entity collapsed because the native peoples rose up and demonstrated they had the magical equivalent of nuclear weapons, and took half the land mass in the treaty that kept them from using them'. The South seceded after the US merged with Canada to form the UCAS. It's still pretty fuckin dumb that every alt-future or alt-history decides that the Confederacy Will Rise Again.
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Mar 14, 2018 05:45
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Kai Tave posted:It's still pretty fuckin dumb that every alt-future or alt-history decides that the Confederacy Will Rise Again. It's dumb that a bunch of people living there want it to, but such is life.
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Mar 14, 2018 05:46
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Liquid Communism posted:It's dumb that a bunch of people living there want it to, but such is life. I'm okay with those people not getting what they want in the form of Heroic Confederate narratives tbh.
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Mar 14, 2018 06:09
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Golden Bee posted:For one skill point I’ll be less racist... for five skill points I’ll be extremely less racist... https://twitter.com/dril/status/841892608788041732?lang=en
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Mar 14, 2018 06:22
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Didn't Aces & Eights go for an alternate history with the Confederacy surviving a bit longer? Though at least there the stated intention was to delay the extension of Federal authority out west so you didn't have to deal with the fact that the Old West was a bubble whose time was limited. (Though that also infuriates me. Why not make that part of the game? Why not just say "The Old West more or less stops being the Old West over time"? It's not like the span of time it existed for is so constrained that you couldn't fit a fairly enormous campaign in there.)
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Mar 14, 2018 13:13
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People just like the Confederacy flag like the Terrans in StarCraft
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Mar 14, 2018 13:17
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Mr. Maltose posted:Cortex Prime. It has not yet been released, sadly, but should be coming out within the next couple of months? Backerkit just charged me for shipping like four days ago so I imagine it might even be sooner than that.
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Mar 14, 2018 17:18
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Antivehicular posted:Honestly, I would be okay with the Tolerance Gauge thing if it were strictly in relation to other Mesoamerican nations, both to understand them and to work together productively, form alliances, etc. It shouldn't cost advancement points, because forcing players to spend advancement to make their characters less assholish is never a good call, but sure, make cultural exchange and mutual respect a thing you have to develop. Conquistadors ain't nobody's buddies, though. If you wanted to be more historical, the conquistadors won by pretending to be buddies with Tlaxcala and other disaffected native groups during the conquest. Then afterwards the conquistadors decided their local allies had outlived their usefulness. Of course, that doesn't have to be anything like a Tolerance Gauge towards the conquistadors. I'd probably keep it strictly in relation to other Mesoamerican nations, with the note that characters that hate any other Mesoamerican nation can form an alliance of convenience with the conquistadors, with the understanding that there will be a sudden-but-inevitable betrayal right after the war.
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Mar 14, 2018 17:26
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:What's bizarre to me is that Deadlands kept the Confederacy around and lets players be playable Confederate heroes (not that I ever allow that) and virtually nobody cares, nobody called out the Doomtown Kickstarter for it and barely criticizes Deadlands for it. I guess because it just faded into the background? Doomtown is only a subset of Deadlands, set on the frontier where the Union and Confederacy aren't established. Slavery isn't really a huge issue compared with, say, deliberately collapsing mines so you could work the reanimated dead miners on a three-shift basis. It was also explicitly stated that the only Dude in the game who would ever have a natural 5-Stud bullet rating was Black Jack.
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Mar 14, 2018 17:39
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golden bubble posted:If you wanted to be more historical, the conquistadors won by pretending to be buddies with Tlaxcala and other disaffected native groups during the conquest. Then afterwards the conquistadors decided their local allies had outlived their usefulness. Of course, that doesn't have to be anything like a Tolerance Gauge towards the conquistadors. I'd probably keep it strictly in relation to other Mesoamerican nations, with the note that characters that hate any other Mesoamerican nation can form an alliance of convenience with the conquistadors, with the understanding that there will be a sudden-but-inevitable betrayal right after the war. Since it's already a fantasy setting, just made Conquistadors basically demons. Metal-clad monster-men astride massive war beasts who plunder and kill, but you can distract them by directing them towards your enemies.
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Mar 14, 2018 18:55
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Kai Tave posted:I'm okay with those people not getting what they want in the form of Heroic Confederate narratives tbh. What is the overlap between modern day Confederate Die-Hards, and people who are willing to play a convoluted as gently caress game about Cyborg Elves?
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Mar 14, 2018 20:46
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Bedlamdan posted:What is the overlap between modern day Confederate Die-Hards, and people who are willing to play a convoluted as gently caress game about Cyborg Elves? 4chan
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Mar 14, 2018 21:00
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Bedlamdan posted:What is the overlap between modern day Confederate Die-Hards, and people who are willing to play a convoluted as gently caress game about Cyborg Elves? Too high
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Mar 14, 2018 21:41
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Well sweet, looks like Flying Circus is funded all the way to Blimpleggers. I've already set up some basics for conversion to the system but now I'm gonna really haul out the rest of the material and get it cleaned up. This is awesome.
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Mar 14, 2018 21:42
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Monumental a deckbuilding Civ-like miniatures game that's entirely Kickstarter exclusive (bingo!). I'm not sure I like this trend of games that are entirely Kickstarter exclusive. It's pretty drat expensive, too.
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Mar 14, 2018 21:44
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Kai Tave posted:It's still pretty fuckin dumb that every alt-future or alt-history decides that the Confederacy Will Rise Again. Broke: Neo Confederacy Woke: Neo Inca, Angevin, Holy Roman and Taiping Empires
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Mar 14, 2018 21:47
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