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Jesus dude, just stop posting.
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Mar 13, 2018 23:40
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bunnyofdoom posted:Jesus dude, just stop posting. not an emptyquote
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Mar 13, 2018 23:48
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You made me want to start replaying WC3 for the X-teenth time. In honor if this thread, I killed every civilian I could find in every level.
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Mar 14, 2018 00:02
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suicidesteve posted:You made me want to start replaying WC3 for the X-teenth time. In honor if this thread, I killed every civilian I could find in every level. Now let's be fair, everyone has played a D&D campaign where the party does this for shits and giggles
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Mar 14, 2018 00:06
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wut
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Mar 14, 2018 03:27
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Dude, you're weird.
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Mar 14, 2018 05:43
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bunnyofdoom posted:Jesus dude, just stop posting. SirSamVimes posted:not an emptyquote Rarity posted:Dude, you're weird. Okay, yes, we get it. Thank you. I've asked him to dial it back a bit, but I guess this can serve as a public warning. If it persists, probations are going to start flying, so just calm down for now.
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Mar 14, 2018 07:14
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Aumanor posted:Wait, so arcane magic suddenly isn't demonic in origin? It's not and hasn't been for some time. It still attracts demons.
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Mar 14, 2018 07:30
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Aumanor posted:Wait, so arcane magic suddenly isn't demonic in origin? Was it ever?
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Mar 14, 2018 07:35
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SirSamVimes posted:Was it ever? I think it only was in that mediocre white wolf RPG.
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Mar 14, 2018 07:52
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What was the origin of arcane magic again? I forget. Or would the answer be spoilerific? All I remember was that dabbling in too much arcane was bad news, but I forget if it was because of sinister origins, or if it's along the lines of 'lust for power = greed = bad' and makes you do bad things.
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Mar 14, 2018 07:56
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I think it’s a very common fantasy staple that too much dabbling in Magic is bad. Unless you’re someone like Elminster, Gandalf, or Dumbledore, and even then... Issues like greed and the origins of Magic being demonic or otherwise are just side issues to this larger dangerous trope.
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Mar 14, 2018 08:06
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Lore Time! Arcane magic, during the WC3-to-early-WoW era, was thought to attract demons, and be corruptive. The demon attraction part was ultimately proved (or quietly retconned) to be Night Elf stigma. As for it corrupting? Not quite, but it is addictive and mutagenic (caveat: in this setting, being highly attuned to any magic source causes physiological changes. Powerful druids tend to have animalistic traits, like antlers, wings and other weird things. Powerful Priests and Paladins tend to glow and be uncannily healthy, as well as sprout light wings. Necromancers are corpse-like. Powerful mages tend to have much longer lifespans and glowing eyes. Demonic fel magic is basically radiation during a 1950s sci-fi movie, it can do anything. The big difference is that arcane magic causes lasting, race wide changes) It's mutagenic processes can be seen in many cases. It led Trolls to evolve into night elves, and later on night elves branched into many other different species depending on magic.
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Mar 14, 2018 08:17
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Siegkrow posted:Lore Time! Wait, if it wasn't, What caused the demons to come to azeroth? I thought it was magic from the well?
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Mar 14, 2018 08:21
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lobster22221 posted:Wait, if it wasn't, What caused the demons to come to azeroth? I thought it was magic from the well? It was the magic from the well, because it's ultimately of Titan origin, and Sargeras was looking very hard for such a thing, because of what it said about the nature of Azeroth (the planet).
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Mar 14, 2018 08:52
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Thanks for the answer. I gueeeeeess I can buy that explanation. Certainly better than Blizzard's typical 'even bigger, more ancient bad' explanation, or some random nonsensical retcon just so we'll have raid bosses to fight in the next WoW expansion.
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Mar 14, 2018 11:24
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facepalmolive posted:Thanks for the answer. I gueeeeeess I can buy that explanation. Certainly better than Blizzard's typical 'even bigger, more ancient bad' explanation, or some random nonsensical retcon just so we'll have raid bosses to fight in the next WoW expansion. Don't you see!? Sageras was a xel-naga all along! The hydralisk model inside the editor wasn't just a cameo!
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Mar 14, 2018 11:28
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lobster22221 posted:Don't you see!? Sageras was a xel-naga all along! The hydralisk model inside the editor wasn't just a cameo! Oh man! I wish someone had used the Space Marine model in the original DoTA. I mean, they used every other character model, why not that one?
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Mar 14, 2018 13:03
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painedforever posted:Oh man! I wish someone had used the Space Marine model in the original DoTA. I mean, they used every other character model, why not that one? They did actually, a couple of versions had him as an extremely rare and op hero you can only get by being lucky with random.
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Mar 14, 2018 13:11
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Lord_Magmar posted:They did actually, a couple of versions had him as an extremely rare and op hero you can only get by being lucky with random. Oh yeah, I never played dota in wc3 because I had multiple grudges against it. I got into it later and learned about some of the removed heroes. I think the one you are talking about was dark terminator. Google says he had crit/evasion, 100% damage illusions, resurrection, blink, and windwalk. I'd imagine he could just go up to you, clone himself, then murder you. lobster22221 fucked around with this message at 13:30 on Mar 14, 2018 |
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Mar 14, 2018 13:27
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Siegkrow posted:It's mutagenic processes can be seen in many cases. It led Trolls to evolve into night elves, and later on night elves branched into many other different species depending on magic. And for some examples that aren't spoilers, it mutated a race called the yaungol into the tauren, murlocs into jinyu, chimpanzees into hozen, and furbolg into pandaren.
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Mar 14, 2018 14:17
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Just to keep things simple for me, and cut down on midweek recording that I have to do, I'm going to start the next campaign on Monday. So tomorrow's update will instead be a supermassive lore post. There's a lot of poo poo to cover, and I don't even know where to start. So I'm going to crowdsource this instead! What would you like me to cover in tomorrow's lore thing? We touched on a lot of poo poo in the Human campaign, and pretty much all of it is now open for discussion and covering.
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Mar 14, 2018 14:29
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I vote for more about the Dwarves. Are the Griffon Riders still just Wildhammers or do they come from more than one clan now? What does Lore say about dwarf gunpowder, Mountain Kings, mortars, etc?
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Mar 14, 2018 14:35
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Dwarf Lore is pretty safe so yeah, go on more Dwarf Lore. There's some really great stuff and we haven't even gotten into deep Dwarf Politics.
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Mar 14, 2018 15:21
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Lord_Magmar posted:Dwarf Lore is pretty safe so yeah, go on more Dwarf Lore. There's some really great stuff and we haven't even gotten into deep Dwarf Politics. +1. Its fun learning about lore, and this is a topic I know even less about than a lot of other lore topics I don't know about, but read something somewhere once. That, and from what I know of the wc3 story, I find it hard to believe that we could really go into campaign spoilers with it. Are there even any more relevant dwarfs in wc3? lobster22221 fucked around with this message at 15:28 on Mar 14, 2018 |
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Mar 14, 2018 15:26
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achtungnight posted:I vote for more about the Dwarves. Are the Griffon Riders still just Wildhammers or do they come from more than one clan now? What does Lore say about dwarf gunpowder, Mountain Kings, mortars, etc?
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Mar 14, 2018 15:27
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Asehujiko posted:Clan Bronzebeard had their capital occupied by the Horde in Warcraft 2 and is probably still rebuilding their infrastructure so aside from Muradin himself, most of the Dwarven expedition are Wildhammers he picked up along the way. Gryphon riders are also the Wildhammer's signature unit in WoW. Wildhammer dwarves are not known for using steam tanks or gyrocopters.
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Mar 14, 2018 15:44
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Torrannor posted:Wildhammer dwarves are not known for using steam tanks or gyrocopters. But they are still Dwarves. In any case the Bronzebeards are also probably handling the sudden influx of Gnomes. Dwarven Politics are great, especially once you get later in WoW and end up with the Council of Three Hammers instead of Magni Bronzebeard.
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Mar 14, 2018 16:02
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NewMars posted:I think it only was in that mediocre white wolf RPG. There was also Day of the Dragon (aka the very first bit of Warcraft EU), which was pretty much the only bit of lore that depicted humans as being mistrustful of mages. Hell, the main paladin of the story outright tells Rhonin, the mage protagonist, that he’s going to burn in hell for using magic.
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Mar 14, 2018 16:30
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See, the problem with that book is it's written by Knaak who is a legendarily bad writer who literally couldn't help but make the "coolest" self insert original character's do not steal. Rhonin is one of them.
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Mar 14, 2018 17:44
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You could, I suppose, just write that off as a Lordaeron thing. Lordaeron's hat among the human kingdoms is (was) being super religious, so not hard to imagine that maybe mages aren't as well received there. The different human nations do, in theory, have different cultures. Lordaeron was super religious, Dalaran is ruled by mages and had a lot of elven influence, Stromgarde was very aggressive and warlike, Gilneas is stubbornly isolationist and close with nature, things like that. Pity the main human nation going forward is Stormwind, whose personality trait of choice is being boring. They're generic high fantasy medieval humans.
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Mar 14, 2018 17:51
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The loss of different Human cultures in WoW IMO is in part a consequence of having so many other playable races. They want to simplify things as much as possible on some level. Human, Orc, Tauren, etc over Gilnean, Kul Tiran, Dalarani, etc, then Orc, Tauren, etc. I wouldn’t be surprised if the individual Orc clans from WC2 were disappearing too. I see the same thing in real life with people wanting to see all humans of a certain skin color or nationality as from the same place for convenience. Simplicity isn’t always a good thing, but it is a very human impulse. Something else I’m curious about- WC3 was the first Real-Time Strategy game I played where the campaigns and different forces were woven into a connected story instead of individual and possibly mutually exclusive plots for each separate force. Starcraft was also like that IIRC, and Starcraft 2 even more so. Has anyone played any other games in the genre like this? I have not, but now that I think about it I am interested in knowing if they exist.
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Mar 14, 2018 19:27
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Total Annihilation: Kingdoms did it but in a weird way. There's one campaign that switches back and forth between the 4 different races. So one level you'll play the beast men taking over a base and the next level you'll be the fish men running away from that base and finding a new place or whatever. It's a neat idea but it makes it kinda hard to get invested in any side.
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Mar 14, 2018 20:00
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achtungnight posted:I wouldn’t be surprised if the individual Orc clans from WC2 were disappearing too. Honestly, aside from a few notable examples, most Clan Identity was largely killed off by the Internment camps. Though I imagine many Orcs still remember what clans they came from or descended from, most of them simply identify as members of the Horde by the time WoW rolls around. Those notable exceptions are those Clans in the Horde who had a notable population that never got interned, like the Warsong or the Frostwolves. Another clan name or two might still be around, but might not be used quite the same way; there is a spy/assassin organization in Orgrimmar named after the Shattered Hand, but there are few other links to the clan. achtungnight posted:Something else I’m curious about- WC3 was the first Real-Time Strategy game I played where the campaigns and different forces were woven into a connected story instead of individual and possibly mutually exclusive plots for each separate force. Starcraft was also like that IIRC, and Starcraft 2 even more so. Has anyone played any other games in the genre like this? I have not, but now that I think about it I am interested in knowing if they exist. Age of Mythology did this; you played as a specific character/group of characters, and the forces available to them changed based on where they were in the world, and the situation unfolding around them. There's a LP of it going in this very forum, which has finished the original campaign, but is taking a break before starting up I think the first expansion's campaign next.
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Mar 14, 2018 21:12
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One of the few good things about Warlords of Draenor was going back and being able to see the Orcish clans pre-Demon Blood and pre-Internment Camps. Always bothers me when fantasy races have essentially a monoculture. Same with them expanding out Kul Tiras in the newest expansion, they seem to have wildly different cultures between their three islands on top of that.
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Mar 15, 2018 00:04
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There weren't that many clans actually put into the Internment camps, all told. Of the fourteen clans Frostwolf, Dragonmaw, Bleeding Hollow and Warsong evaded capture entirely. Stormreaver, Twilight's Hammer and Burning Blade were wiped out. Laughing Skull, Shattered Hand, Bonechewer, Thunderlord, and Shadowmoon all started and ended BtDP on Draenor. Only Blackrock and Black Tooth were captured, and Black Tooth split off after the camps were liberated. Orcs from all clans were captured (Blademaster heroes are Burning Blade specifically) but the bulk of the clans were otherwise free. It makes Grom's "only chieftain never caught!" even more silly.
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Mar 15, 2018 00:05
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McTimmy posted:There weren't that many clans actually put into the Internment camps, all told. The Bleeding Hollow evaded capture initially, but many of them ended up fleeing back to Azeroth toward the end of the events of Beyond the Dark Portal, getting captured and rounded up for the camps. Source: Warcraft 3 manual, partially retconned by BtDP novel in that Kilrogg is killed instead of fleeing, but I don't think it stops parts of the clan from fleeing to Azeroth. This may fall into the "Orcs from all clans were captured" bit, though. Regardless, the orcs that got interned did end up losing most or all of their clan identity. The Orc clans that still have a decent "clan" presence by the time WoW comes around are the ones who maintained a significant "uncaptured" presence. This does include the Blackrock and Black Tooth Grin, though; not as many BTG's got captured as one might think. Rend and Maim took a number of survivors from the Black Tooth Grin and Blackrock Clans and evaded the Alliance forces until they moved on, toward the Portal, at which point they snuck in and took up residence within Blackrock Mountain, fighting for control of it against the Dark Iron Dwarves. Of course, by this point the Black Tooth Grin clan simply started calling itself the Blackrock clan again, since the only reason they'd split off in the first place was because of Doomhammer's betrayal of their father, Blackhand; and Doomhammer wasn't around anymore. As for Grom's "only chieftain never caught" thing, that was, to be fair, before a lot of this lore was developed. BlazetheInferno fucked around with this message at 00:49 on Mar 15, 2018 |
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Mar 15, 2018 00:46
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Also, it's better than saying Only Chieftan still a Chieftan, which is the real claim to fame here because the Chieftans of all the other clans were dead, captured, or ran the gently caress away. The Frostwolf clan don't even have a Chieftan at this point, they just have their Shaman leader from memory.
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Mar 15, 2018 03:35
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McTimmy posted:There weren't that many clans actually put into the Internment camps, all told. Pretty sure they meant the only chieftain on Azeroth not to get caught. Frostmaw’s chief (Thrall’s dad) was dead. That leaves only the chieftains of Dragonmaw and Bleeding Hollow dying and it is covered. Not sure if that contradicts lore.
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Mar 15, 2018 03:48
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suicidesteve posted:Total Annihilation: Kingdoms did it but in a weird way. There's one campaign that switches back and forth between the 4 different races. So one level you'll play the beast men taking over a base and the next level you'll be the fish men running away from that base and finding a new place or whatever. It's a neat idea but it makes it kinda hard to get invested in any side. Frankly it reminded me most of when I was young and would sometimes play both sides of a board game when nobody else was available to play. Which can be a lot of fun, but isn’t really conducive to building a compelling storyline. Lord_Magmar posted:Also, it's better than saying Only Chieftan still a Chieftan, which is the real claim to fame here because the Chieftans of all the other clans were dead, captured, or ran the gently caress away. The Frostwolf clan don't even have a Chieftan at this point, they just have their Shaman leader from memory. MagusofStars fucked around with this message at 12:57 on Mar 15, 2018 |
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Mar 15, 2018 03:56
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