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ah, so other elves consider genderfluid drow 'one of the good ones'
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Mar 16, 2018 00:50
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Brother Entropy posted:ah, so other elves consider genderfluid drow 'one of the good ones' From the sound it, less one of the good ones. More of "More willing to give a chance, cause they are blessed by our god." as Elves have been known to accept outcast drow before. Anyway I feel I need to read the actual book to get a better understanding of this and how the Elves perceive this stuff.
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Mar 16, 2018 01:03
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Boy do I not like their use of language here, people IRL are genderfluid. They're talking about being able to magically change their sexual morphology.
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Mar 16, 2018 01:18
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mango sentinel posted:Boy do I not like their use of language here, people IRL are genderfluid. They're talking about being able to magically change their sexual morphology. i mean, if magic were real i (and presumably other genderfluid or non-cis people) would sure like a way to change sexual morphology the way it's described
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Mar 16, 2018 01:24
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I don't know what's more tasteless, the lack of understanding that sex and gender are different things or the TERF Murder Drow.
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Mar 16, 2018 01:24
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mango sentinel posted:Boy do I not like their use of language here, people IRL are genderfluid. They're talking about being able to magically change their sexual morphology. Well Crawford never used the term genderfluid. That was us. Edit:Oh you are talking about the article. Mr. Maltose posted:I don't know what's more tasteless, the lack of understanding that sex and gender are different things or the TERF Murder Drow. Don't get the first comment, as the interview does not seem to confuse the two. You are fine to be offended with the TERF Murder Drow, but is that really any worse then the Racist Murder Drow, or the Rapist Murder Drow. The Drow passed the point were people should start getting offended long ago. Edit Just got you were talking about the linked article for the 1st part. MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 01:34 on Mar 16, 2018 |
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Mar 16, 2018 01:26
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Brother Entropy posted:i mean, if magic were real i (and presumably other genderfluid or non-cis people) would sure like a way to change sexual morphology the way it's described
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Mar 16, 2018 01:30
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Mr. Maltose posted:I don't know what's more tasteless, the lack of understanding that sex and gender are different things or the TERF Murder Drow. Everything about this is loving gross AND boring. MonsterEnvy posted:Well I think 'neat storytelling twist' was a type of Drow that other Elves are more ok with cause they have a trait they consider blessed. You can always make something worse. The drow are now exclusively cannibals for example would make them worse. Also gently caress the idea that you are born good or evil goddamn, everything about this is poo poo. kingcom fucked around with this message at 01:34 on Mar 16, 2018 |
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Mar 16, 2018 01:30
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mango sentinel posted:I'm absolutely there with you. I just don't like how the comicbook.com article keeps using language of gender and genderfluid because I don't want folks playing D&D to associate the concept of genderfluidity with weird elf game magic. I can't sit through more than 30 seconds of that Jeremy Crawford video because he talks really strange, so I can't tell what kind of language he actually uses, I just hope the book is consistent in referring to biological sex or similar. Also the Drow have always been a massively problematic mess that should just be burned and redone from the ground up. I can't listen to him ether. Here is the transcript https://www.dndbeyond.com/posts/174-learn-more-about-the-drow-in-d-ds-mordenkainens kingcom posted:Everything about this is loving gross AND boring. I am fairly certain that several cannibal Drow were introduced in the books. I recall a scene in a early Drizzt book were one Drow on a raid expressed interested in skinning and eating an Elf child. The interview itself actually says they are not born evil, they do have free will, the big problem is their horrible culture and god. MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 01:42 on Mar 16, 2018 |
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Mar 16, 2018 01:32
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MonsterEnvy posted:I am fairly certain that several cannibal Drow were introduced in the books. I recall a scene in a early Drizzt book were one Drow on a raid expressed interested in skinning and eating an Elf child. Are you seriously trying to get into a 'I say something worse and more horrific' and then you say nah they put that in a book its fine. Like come on, there is always worse, I just put that and not something nobody wants to think about in there so please don't loving continue on this tangent. You know there can be something worse, there absolutely can be something worse. Do not play around with this point. MonsterEnvy posted:From the sound it, less one of the good ones. More of "More willing to give a chance, cause they are blessed by our god." as Elves have been known to accept outcast drow before. The black ones are bad is too much of a thesis statement for Drow, there is no way you get to write around this unfortunately as long as you sit on this idea. The more you connect it to the real world, the more you reinforce this thesis. kingcom fucked around with this message at 01:44 on Mar 16, 2018 |
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Mar 16, 2018 01:41
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kingcom posted:Are you seriously trying to get into a 'I say something worse and more horrific' and then you say nah they put that in a book its fine. Like come on, there is always worse, I just put that and not something nobody wants to think about in there so please don't loving continue on this tangent. You know there can be something worse, there absolutely can be something worse. Do not play around with this point. No I am just saying they already did that. Not that it's fine. (Cause it's a really awful thing. The later one I am not 100% sure happened Its just what I recalled when thinking of it.) MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 01:44 on Mar 16, 2018 |
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Mar 16, 2018 01:42
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MonsterEnvy posted:No I am just saying they already did that. Not that it's fine. You're missing my point. I'm saying you can always bring up something else to show how they are worse and used cannibalism as an example and you said 'well actually they already did that' not understanding that as an example. I just don't want to bring even worse stuff up because its never the time or place to bring those kinds of things up. You said you cant do anything to make drow worse and I'm saying yes you absolutely can but I don't want to bring up that stuff because its not appropriate it.
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Mar 16, 2018 01:47
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kingcom posted:The black ones are bad is too much of a thesis statement for Drow, there is no way you get to write around this unfortunately as long as you sit on this idea. The more you connect it to the real world, the more you reinforce this thesis. Indeed it's why I prefer the Warhammer Dark Elves. Where they are straight up the same species with no real differences physically. One group of them are just dicks. The Drow's skin has just become too ingrained into D&D and popular culture that it is unlikely to ever be changed. (Well other then the shift away from black to more grey and purple skin tones.) kingcom posted:You're missing my point. I'm saying you can always bring up something else to show how they are worse and used cannibalism as an example and you said 'well actually they already did that' not understanding that as an example. I just don't want to bring even worse stuff up because its never the time or place to bring those kinds of things up. You said you cant do anything to make drow worse and I'm saying yes you absolutely can but I don't want to bring up that stuff because its not appropriate it. Fair enough and I understand your point.
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Mar 16, 2018 01:48
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MonsterEnvy posted:Indeed it's why I prefer the Warhammer Dark Elves. Where they are straight up the same species with no real differences physically. One group of them are just dicks. Warhammer DE's are also a functional culture with a central drive and an army of mostly soldiers all on a mission to go retake their homeland and throne (where the population is only a single generation old so nothing is ingrained whatsoever). Virtually every other version of 'dark elf' tends to go out of its way to either not make them black or if they are, they are not non-functionally evil because thats a real big problem to think about on any conceptual level. The Drow skin poo poo wont change, you're right. Reinforcing real world issues onto them will continue to remind everyone of this problem, and its why you don't do it. EDIT: You want to bring up genderfluid in D&D, thats great and I'm sure many people would be in favour of it even if its inevitably handled poorly but when you use Drow as your touchstone for it, you run into a 100 problems you've just created and mapped on what you've just introduced. Why is this not just a thing any elf or worshipper of Corellon can do? kingcom fucked around with this message at 01:53 on Mar 16, 2018 |
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Mar 16, 2018 01:50
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you'd have to be actively trying to end up with dark elves worse than d&d drow even my favorite edition (4th) has that one loving epic destiny and my favorite setting (eberron) just makes them not-subsaharan tribes in eberron's not-Darkest Africa
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Mar 16, 2018 01:54
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mango sentinel posted:Also the Drow have always been a massively problematic mess that should just be burned and redone from the ground up. Yes, it's this. I can't believe the Drow are so bad that Skyrim's Falmer are actually more interesting and compelling. Their lore is barely enough to dip your toes in but their morphology makes sense for subterannean elves, Blackreach has an Underdark feel that's suitably wondrous and exciting, and they're not packed with decades of seriously problematic bullshit (because they left all of that for Molag Bal to monopolize.)
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Mar 16, 2018 01:57
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kingcom posted:Why is this not just a thing any elf or worshipper of Corellon can do? For why not just any elf. I am assuming it's because they want to keep Drow culture as it is, because the Drow are popular and the power to change sex would muck that up (The reason given in the interview as to why the drow dislike it.). As for why not any worshiper of Corellon, I imagine, it's because they want it to been see a sign of Corellon's blessing of an individual not his worshipers in general. Thit could be wrong, but I think I will just wait on the book to digest this better, as I have a feeling it will be better explained there. MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 02:07 on Mar 16, 2018 |
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Mar 16, 2018 02:05
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I'm absolutely narrating it to be given to the Eladrin in my Feywild campaign. If they can change sex characteristics, they're doing to do it to suit their shifting moods all the drat time.
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Mar 16, 2018 02:10
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All elves are David Bowie in my campaign so we’re good.
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Mar 16, 2018 02:11
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Nehru the Damaja posted:I'm absolutely narrating it to be given to the Eladrin in my Feywild campaign. If they can change sex characteristics, they're doing to do it to suit their shifting moods all the drat time. The Eladrin are described as being the most mutable. I would not be shocked if it was something they could all do.
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Mar 16, 2018 02:13
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Kaysette posted:All elves are David Bowie in my campaign so we’re good. This is the most correct way of running elves, the different elves are the different David Bowie era, Drow are Glam Rock 70s bowie.
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Mar 16, 2018 02:27
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My elves are New Jersey Italians.
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Mar 16, 2018 02:36
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ayyy, i'm trancing over here
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Mar 16, 2018 03:09
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MonsterEnvy posted:There are, they are just few and far between. I remember in the Neverwinter MMO you work with a small group of drow who are members of Harpers to fight off an raid from some other Drow. The primary drow you work with calls his kin disgusting scum, gives you advice never to take a drow at their word until you know they are trustworthy, even if they are claiming to be good. As far too many try to take advantage of some of the good will drow like him and Drizzt have managed etch out. I, Claudius is pure gold mate.
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Mar 16, 2018 03:10
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kingcom posted:Why is this not just a thing any elf or worshipper of Corellon can do? I thought it was something any elf can do? Just that when it happens to be a drow, the other drow, being awful, fear/hate them for having Corellon's blessing and being able to functionally change castes at will.
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Mar 16, 2018 03:34
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MonsterEnvy posted:the Drow are popular and the power to change sex would muck that up I'm just staring at this, trying to figure out what you were trying to say because it cannot possibly be what these words are saying. There is zero connection between these two things and I'm just baffled by this. 
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Mar 16, 2018 03:51
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Dragonatrix posted:I'm just staring at this, trying to figure out what you were trying to say because it cannot possibly be what these words are saying. There is zero connection between these two things and I'm just baffled by this. Yeah I phrased it wrong, comma in the wrong place and such. Here is what I was trying to say. The Drow are popular and as a result WotC want to keep their society the same, and the power to change sex would muck up their society if they could all do it. I also think I misread his comment about any elf being able to it, thinking he meant that all elves could freely change sex. Rather then any type of elf being capable of it. (Which is the case.) MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 03:58 on Mar 16, 2018 |
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Mar 16, 2018 03:55
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5e really should have just said actually the elves that have spent millennia in the outdoors loving life are all deep dark brown/black, and the elves underground hating everything forever are lily white
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Mar 16, 2018 04:20
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I mean, the first person pitching Evil Underground Elves should have remembered literally all of biology and thought that. Because come on. And then on second thought realized it was terrible to mix skin color and/or race into this and then just never brought it up. Because come on. But. Whelp.
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Mar 16, 2018 05:36
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Drizz't isn't the reason Drow will never be fixed, it's because pitch black skin and long white hair looks radical.
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Mar 16, 2018 06:51
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I mean hell, make Drow sailors who spend their time out on the ocean and Elves are just elves and Eladrin are just elves that live in the feywild. Boom, the only reason Drow are dark is because they have a tan. That's just how elves tan.
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Mar 16, 2018 07:44
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Mr. Maltose posted:I don't know what's more tasteless, the lack of understanding that sex and gender are different things or the TERF Murder Drow. I mean, the drow are already literally black elves who are black because they got Curse of Ham'd and are all evil (but they're not really evil, it's just nasty drow culture) due to their evil heathen goddess and their nasty evil feminist matriarchs who are also coincidentally very sexually aggressive and their sneaky conniving yet also very strong men who want to go to the surface and corrupt - you know what? You get the idea. What I'm saying is, that's all old and done with! The thinnest veil to racism? It's 2018, we got nazis marching in the streets! It's time for a more modern reason for them to be absolutely disgustingly written! And hey, there you go, they're all TERFs! Holy poo poo this is loving horrifying! What's actually killing me is how breathlessly proud they are about this, and how little clue they are how actually hosed all this is.
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Mar 16, 2018 07:44
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Torchlighter posted:I mean hell, make Drow sailors who spend their time out on the ocean and Elves are just elves and Eladrin are just elves that live in the feywild. Boom, the only reason Drow are dark is because they have a tan. That's just how elves tan. Drow are dark skinned for the same reason wood elves match their trees, for the same reason high elves match their farms and fields, for the same reason winged elves match the clouds and sun. Elves resemble their surroundings. "Home" means a lot when you have fey blood.
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Mar 16, 2018 07:52
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ProfessorCirno posted:I mean, the drow are already literally black elves who are black because they got Curse of Ham'd and are all evil (but they're not really evil, it's just nasty drow culture) due to their evil heathen goddess and their nasty evil feminist matriarchs who are also coincidentally very sexually aggressive and their sneaky conniving yet also very strong men who want to go to the surface and corrupt - you know what? You get the idea. What I'm saying is, that's all old and done with! The thinnest veil to racism? It's 2018, we got nazis marching in the streets! It's time for a more modern reason for them to be absolutely disgustingly written! And hey, there you go, they're all TERFs! yeah i just take this and say eladrin are loving racist, dark elves is dark cause loth thinks it looks cool and the drow got exiled after loth lost a spat with corelon
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Mar 16, 2018 08:23
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I'm looking to homebrew an Ancient Faerie Dragon. I started by just putting Violet Faerie Dragon innate spellcasting on top of an Ancient Red Dragon with Euphoria Breath but I definitely need to change the overall statblock to feel more like even in its massive size, it's more agile and less brute-force than an ancient red. Probably wants a few more spells, too. Too tired to keep going on it right now but if anyone has any suggestions or ideas I'm totally down for input.
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Mar 16, 2018 08:45
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Admiral Joeslop posted:Not that you would, mechanically, want to play one anyway. Disadvantage while in sunlight is real dumb. You should probably drop that entirely for anyone who wants to play a Drow, considering how the Drow were never really meant to be a playable race anyway ... except then Drizzt happened, etc etc etc
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Mar 16, 2018 08:57
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Bring back that one loving 3.5 "magic item" that removed your sunlight disadvantage that were literally sunglasses.
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Mar 16, 2018 09:16
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ProfessorCirno posted:Bring back that one loving 3.5 "magic item" that removed your sunlight disadvantage that were literally sunglasses.
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Mar 16, 2018 09:25
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Elysiume posted:The 3.5 ones appear to have been way cheaper (although I can't find a non-poo poo source), but I know of Definitely Not Sunglasses from Pathfinder. Races of the Dragon had "sundark goggles" for kobolds, but they worked just as well for drow, and were basically shades, and were like...300 gold or something like that? They gave a super forgettable penalty to Spot and an equally forgettable bonus to gaze attacks, and removed light blindness, which, to be fair, was only like -1 to some poo poo in 3.5 instead of straight up disadvantage to goddamn all attacks, but to be unfair drow were saddled with level adjustment, kneecapping them just the same.
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Mar 16, 2018 10:45
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gradenko_2000 posted:You should probably drop that entirely for anyone who wants to play a Drow, considering how the Drow were never really meant to be a playable race anyway ... except then Drizzt happened, etc etc etc My entire way of running 5e is "Yeah do whatever, X is stupid and we're ignoring it." This applies to a lot of the book, as I'm sure you know.
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Mar 16, 2018 11:54
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