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GrandpaPants posted:Monumental a deckbuilding Civ-like miniatures game that's entirely Kickstarter exclusive (bingo!). I'm not sure I like this trend of games that are entirely Kickstarter exclusive. I know this is a weir dthing to nitpick, but the choices they made for Warlord baffle me. Ramses, OK, an actual political leader. But then there's Siegfried and Hercules, both purely mythological characters. And I don't think either of them were like, leaders of men. Then Mulan, who at least was a soldier although also not a leader and also probably mythical. And finally Miyamoto Musashi. A real dude, but his military service is a small part of his life, he spent most of his time getting famous by challenging people to duels. I don't get it.
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Mar 14, 2018 21:54
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Guy Goodbody posted:I know this is a weir dthing to nitpick, but the choices they made for Warlord baffle me. Ramses, OK, an actual political leader. But then there's Siegfried and Hercules, both purely mythological characters. And I don't think either of them were like, leaders of men. Then Mulan, who at least was a soldier although also not a leader and also probably mythical. And finally Miyamoto Musashi. A real dude, but his military service is a small part of his life, he spent most of his time getting famous by challenging people to duels. I don't know if it bothers me per se, but it did raise an eyebrow, but then there's an entire Atlantis faction so  . If I bought it in Mare Nostrum, I can buy it here. I do kinda like the way that the actions are played, though, since it mitigates hand screw a bit. I do not like the market row, but who does?
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Mar 14, 2018 21:58
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Guy Goodbody posted:I know this is a weir dthing to nitpick, but the choices they made for Warlord baffle me. Ramses, OK, an actual political leader. But then there's Siegfried and Hercules, both purely mythological characters. And I don't think either of them were like, leaders of men. Then Mulan, who at least was a soldier although also not a leader and also probably mythical. And finally Miyamoto Musashi. A real dude, but his military service is a small part of his life, he spent most of his time getting famous by challenging people to duels. Especially since there are obvious good Warlords for each. Greek - Alexander the Great or Leonidas Chinese - Sun Tzu or pick any of the badasses from the Three Kingdoms era. Hell, go with Lu Bu if you want maximum recognition Japanese - Oda Nobunaga Denmark - Ragnar Lodbrok or (if he's not historical enough, historians are divided) one of his sons
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Mar 14, 2018 22:06
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GrandpaPants posted:Monumental a deckbuilding Civ-like miniatures game that's entirely Kickstarter exclusive (bingo!). I'm not sure I like this trend of games that are entirely Kickstarter exclusive. Looks like a game that is mostly about cards and could have been ~$50-60 and worth buying if they'd skipped the minis. Oh well.
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Mar 15, 2018 00:42
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Coriolis is publishing Emisarry Lost, a campaign for the book. It looks interesting, and I'm a fan of the game, though it does have some flaws. I don't know if I am that interested in the backstory or metaplot stuff. I would rather more tables and structure for using the setting as a sandbox.
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Mar 15, 2018 02:41
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Did Coriolis ever fix the problem of having no guidelines for handing out money? It otherwise looked interesting when a friend showed off his new purchase to my tabletop group, but money is a significant subsystem (to the point that the PCs start in debt to loan sharks for their ship) and yet I couldn't find anything on handling it.
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Mar 15, 2018 05:34
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Do you like the Tokusatsu genre? Do you like Savage Worlds? Then you need Savage Tokusatsu https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/bpbgames/savage-tokusatsu-kaiju-mechs-and-heroes-for-savage quote:Tokusatsu is the Japanese word for any live action movie or television show that makes heavy use of special effects. The word's literal translation is "Special Filming." The people behind this Kickstarter worked on aspects of Red Markets and/or are involved in RPG podcasts like Role Playing Public Radio. It's going to be a print on demand book through DrivethruRPG so it should be easy for them to get this out to backers without complication. (Disclosure I know the people behind this KS) clockworkjoe fucked around with this message at 05:41 on Mar 15, 2018 |
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Mar 15, 2018 05:34
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clockworkjoe posted:Do you like the Tokusatsu genre? Do you like Savage Worlds? Then you need Savage Tokusatsu https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/bpbgames/savage-tokusatsu-kaiju-mechs-and-heroes-for-savage I hope they're careful about never having anything even vaguely to do with Saban's Power Rangers. Previous kickstarters in this genre have got into serious trouble.
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Mar 15, 2018 06:16
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NGDBSS posted:Did Coriolis ever fix the problem of having no guidelines for handing out money? It otherwise looked interesting when a friend showed off his new purchase to my tabletop group, but money is a significant subsystem (to the point that the PCs start in debt to loan sharks for their ship) and yet I couldn't find anything on handling it. They released the Atlas Companion, which does give some rules for generating missions and how much they should pay. It still leaves a lot vague though, which is definitely a weakness of the game.
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Mar 15, 2018 11:42
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clockworkjoe posted:Do you like the Tokusatsu genre? Do you like Savage Worlds? Then you need Savage Tokusatsu https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/bpbgames/savage-tokusatsu-kaiju-mechs-and-heroes-for-savage Well, I do like me some Savage Worlds and some Super Sentai so... sold.
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Mar 15, 2018 13:23
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Antivehicular posted:The Western genre, and derivatives thereof, has always contained a degree of Confederate apologia; "heroic and honorable Confederate veteran living as a masterless man out West" is a pretty stock protagonist figure. See also: Malcom Reynolds.
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Mar 15, 2018 13:28
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GrandpaPants posted:Monumental a deckbuilding Civ-like miniatures game that's entirely Kickstarter exclusive (bingo!). I'm not sure I like this trend of games that are entirely Kickstarter exclusive. It's also Funforge, who have had some notorious difficulties with minis in their projects. Add two years onto the expected delivery date if you back it.
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Mar 15, 2018 15:02
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Aces & 8s really played around with the history IIRC, to the point where the Mormon state of Deseret and Texas were independent nations.
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Mar 15, 2018 15:37
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moths posted:Aces & 8s really played around with the history IIRC, to the point where the Mormon state of Deseret and Texas were independent nations. That is barely playing around with history.
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Mar 15, 2018 16:44
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Yeah, the Republic of Texas was a real country from 1836 to 1846, and the Mormons tried to have a State of Deseret from roughly 1847 to 1850.
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Mar 15, 2018 19:21
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Neither persisted into post-ACW times though. It was a cool idea for a "what if?" history though.
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Mar 15, 2018 20:12
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Victoriana actually somehow did a better job of it, taking place pre-Civil War but with Texas as an independent nation along with California as an independent nation, the Republic of Yucatan actually succeeds and is allied to Texas against Mexico and William Walker's paramilitary takeover/white man invasion of Nicaragua succeeds. Though admittedly it's not really great as a whole because the Civil War is going to still happen albeit over the rights of robots because robots are enslaved as free labor instead of black and Native slaves and using robots instead of people as a reason for the war to happen is its own can of stupid worms.
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Mar 15, 2018 20:35
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LatwPIAT posted:See also: Malcom Reynolds. Is it really apologia though? I don't say this to diminish the terribleness of the cause of the war but it seems overly simplistic to paint the soldiers that fought in the war and the politicians that started it with the same brush. There wasn't really a conscientious objector status available.
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Mar 15, 2018 20:57
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Macdeo Lurjtux posted:Is it really apologia though? I don't say this to diminish the terribleness of the cause of the war but it seems overly simplistic to paint the soldiers that fought in the war and the politicians that started it with the same brush. There wasn't really a conscientious objector status available. So, uh, you take any history classes after highschool? Actually if you're not from the US you probably don't know this but yeah no that's apologia.
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Mar 15, 2018 21:05
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Macdeo Lurjtux posted:Is it really apologia though? I don't say this to diminish the terribleness of the cause of the war but it seems overly simplistic to paint the soldiers that fought in the war and the politicians that started it with the same brush. There wasn't really a conscientious objector status available. The Confederacy's entire, uh, thing was positioning poor whites in a situation where they thought they had to defend their superiority to poor blacks.
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Mar 15, 2018 21:05
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Macdeo Lurjtux posted:Is it really apologia though? No, I don't think it is, and I don't think it is in most cases where it comes up. Designers just realize that balkanization leads to more factions to draw on (and sell books for) and more innate conflict for your setting. If the Confederacy always appears, it's because it's a no-brainer: easy to identify and understand, comes with pre-made flags/symbols, doesn't stretch people's sense of plausibility. In that light it's the same as the second thing every dystopian/alt-history designer does for North America: pencilling in an independent Quebec. My main complaint is that it's lazy, not that it's stealth apologetics.
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Mar 15, 2018 21:06
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Mors Rattus posted:The Confederacy's entire, uh, thing was positioning poor whites in a situation where they thought they had to defend their superiority to poor blacks. not just the confederacy
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Mar 15, 2018 21:11
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Serf posted:not just the confederacy no, but if we were going to list all of them we'd be here all day
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Mar 15, 2018 21:32
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fez_machine posted:I hope they're careful about never having anything even vaguely to do with Saban's Power Rangers. Previous kickstarters in this genre have got into serious trouble. Yeah, they're aware of that issue and have carefully avoided all mention of Saban properties for that reason.
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Mar 15, 2018 23:29
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Macdeo Lurjtux posted:Is it really apologia though? I don't say this to diminish the terribleness of the cause of the war but it seems overly simplistic to paint the soldiers that fought in the war and the politicians that started it with the same brush. There wasn't really a conscientious objector status available. Malcolm Reynolds, and Firefly's treatment of its Civil-War-oid backstory, actually falls into the "Lost Cause" apologia trap really hard -- where the Confederacy, or its proxy in this case, is treated as having fought a noble war for "freedom" and "rights" and being honorable for standing up against an oppressive government, while being vague or silent about what the rebels were actually standing up about. (I don't think Firefly ever makes the actual casus belli of Mal's war clear, besides generic "freedom." Given what examples we see of the rebel vs. central-galaxy cultures in Firefly, they may well have been fighting for the right to abuse sex workers, but that's its own can of worms.) Treating the Civil War as a noble and righteous act and an assertion of freedom is gross apologia, given that the only "right" the CSA was seceding for was the right to own chattel slaves. I agree that not every individual soldier needs to be treated as an embodiment of that fact, but if their characterization involves the concept of mourning their "noble cause," they're right there in the mire. In general, anything that minimizes the degree to which the Confederacy existed and fought entirely for slavery is going to be Confederate apologia of a pretty revolting kind. A common alt-history trope that I've seen show up in a few tradgames products, and which I think someone else already mentioned, is the whole "well, actually the victorious CSA abolished slavery not long after the war" trope, which is just a way to pretend that the CSA meant and was founded on any principle other than "we should be able to treat other human beings as disposable livestock." Spoiler warning: it wasn't!
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Mar 15, 2018 23:41
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clockworkjoe posted:Yeah, they're aware of that issue and have carefully avoided all mention of Saban properties for that reason. Unfortunately if they even so much as mention Sentai or have something that might be misidentified as Saban IP when standing 10m away and squinting, that won't stop Saban from trying to shut them down. 
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Mar 15, 2018 23:44
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Lemon-Lime posted:Unfortunately if they even so much as mention Sentai or have something that might be misidentified as Saban IP when standing 10m away and squinting, that won't stop Saban from trying to shut them down. That's scary. The pregen team is sorta Big Bad Beetle 'Borg-esque.
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Mar 16, 2018 00:08
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Dawgstar posted:That's scary. The pregen team is sorta Big Bad Beetle 'Borg-esque. you mean Metal Heroes.
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Mar 16, 2018 01:14
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Antivehicular posted:Malcolm Reynolds, and Firefly's treatment of its Civil-War-oid backstory, actually falls into the "Lost Cause" apologia trap really hard -- where the Confederacy, or its proxy in this case, is treated as having fought a noble war for "freedom" and "rights" and being honorable for standing up against an oppressive government, while being vague or silent about what the rebels were actually standing up about. (I don't think Firefly ever makes the actual casus belli of Mal's war clear, besides generic "freedom." Given what examples we see of the rebel vs. central-galaxy cultures in Firefly, they may well have been fighting for the right to abuse sex workers, but that's its own can of worms.) Treating the Civil War as a noble and righteous act and an assertion of freedom is gross apologia, given that the only "right" the CSA was seceding for was the right to own chattel slaves. I agree that not every individual soldier needs to be treated as an embodiment of that fact, but if their characterization involves the concept of mourning their "noble cause," they're right there in the mire. Part of the problem with the various confederacy treatments is that real people think the actual confederacy was Good (tm) so anything that looks vaguely like that is hugely problematic because it feeds into this highly problematic cultural norm that the confederacy and its leadership were anything other than Bad People. Reynolds in firefly is more or less analogous to the popular cultural stuff that tries to rehabilitate robert e lee. In a way the entire thing would be way less problematic if he was a german army officer analogue because no-one in the mainstream thinks that hitler and co were good dudes, but people erect statues about lee.
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Mar 16, 2018 02:09
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Hostile V posted:William Walker's paramilitary takeover/white man invasion of Nicaragua succeeds. He did succeed and was overthrown by an international coalition months later. They were worried he had designs on expansion, he probably did, and took him out at the first opportunity. That alone would be a great campaign, removing Walker from power with extreme prejudice.
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Mar 16, 2018 02:49
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Cthulhu Dreams posted:Part of the problem with the various confederacy treatments is that real people think the actual confederacy was Good (tm) so anything that looks vaguely like that is hugely problematic because it feeds into this highly problematic cultural norm that the confederacy and its leadership were anything other than Bad People. The lost cause strain that worships Lee is downright bizarre to track. It has a hidden upside though - the century or so the Confederate apologists spent villifying Longstreet has kept him from taking centre stage as the friendly face of the Confederacy, and he's a lot drat better at that to a modern palate than most of his compatriots were.
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Mar 16, 2018 03:48
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Cthulhu Dreams posted:no-one in the mainstream thinks that hitler and co were good Uhhhh I’m not sure if this is still as true as it once was
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Mar 16, 2018 07:13
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Macdeo Lurjtux posted:Is it really apologia though? I don't say this to diminish the terribleness of the cause of the war but it seems overly simplistic to paint the soldiers that fought in the war and the politicians that started it with the same brush. There wasn't really a conscientious objector status available. Mal is not a reluctant or apolitical soldier who happened to fight for the Space Confederacy: he's a true believer in the Space Confederacy cause.
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Mar 16, 2018 10:16
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Cthulhu Dreams posted:Reynolds in firefly is more or less analogous to the popular cultural stuff that tries to rehabilitate robert e lee. In a way the entire thing would be way less problematic if he was a german army officer analogue because no-one in the mainstream thinks that hitler and co were good dudes, but people erect statues about lee. Oh my sweet summer child. There are whole wargaming companies based on the idea that while Hitler was crazy, the Whermacht were heroically defending their country.
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Mar 16, 2018 10:51
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Knight Models have announced that the reports were incorrect and the Crappy Tosser Toy Soldier Game will be sold at retail. It's only the bigass bundle that is KS exclusive. It's still going to be mediocre at best, but now you know.
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Mar 16, 2018 10:54
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The difference is everyone knows about World War 2 and the Nazis, while nobody gives a gently caress about, or is taught anything about the American Civil War outside of the USA beyond that it happened, so the confederate apologia stuff is meaningless to most of us. I for one had no idea Firefly's setting was a US civil war analogue. I studied history electives in my senior years at high school, and the US civil war received about as much attention in my courses as did the English Civil War and the Meiji Restoration, which was more or less nothing. The Russian Revolution was a core topic, as was World War 2. NTRabbit fucked around with this message at 11:03 on Mar 16, 2018 |
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Mar 16, 2018 11:00
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LatwPIAT posted:Mal is not a reluctant or apolitical soldier who happened to fight for the Space Confederacy: he's a true believer in the Space Confederacy cause. I wasn't really talking about Mal though, there's no argument from me that Firefly has aged into unwatchable territory. I was just replying to the latest post on the topic, I'm sorry I realize it might be confusing.
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Mar 16, 2018 13:17
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NTRabbit posted:The difference is everyone knows about World War 2 and the Nazis, while nobody gives a gently caress about, or is taught anything about the American Civil War outside of the USA beyond that it happened, so the confederate apologia stuff is meaningless to most of us. I for one had no idea Firefly's setting was a US civil war analogue.
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Mar 16, 2018 13:40
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Doctor Spaceman posted:Yeah outside the US we don't really get the apologia so with something like Firefly the absence of slaves means there's no real reason to link it to the Civil War (since "evil central government vs freedom loving rebels" is a pretty generic setup). Unfortunately, that doesn't mean it's not apologia. Not that I think Firefly deliberately set out to whitewash the Confederacy - I think it's way more likely that Whedon just blindly copied a Western character archetype that did, without paying any attention to what he was copying from.
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Mar 16, 2018 14:16
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Lemon-Lime posted:Unfortunately, that doesn't mean it's not apologia.
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