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Wastrel_ posted:I think a fair change to stealth would be to make it easier for guards to be alerted (currently with 3 detection you can literally crouch-move about 10m in front of a guard and not get detected, which is stupid as gently caress) but to stop pagers from going off when you kill unalerted guards (yes, like in Silent Assassin). The pager limit can remain or even be reduced if 4 pagers is found to be too many in such a system. But that would probably be pretty easy to abuse to be able to clear a heist out of guards.
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Mar 16, 2018 12:54
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I know that I was JUST arguing against RNG, but what if the pagers were somewhat random? As in, not every single guard requires a pager call. Nothing about the pager makes sense to me. Am I to believe that every guard I kill accidentally hits his pager? Or what if I could hold a guard, ala Metal Gear, and force him to answer or disable his own pager, perhaps not contributing to the 4 count. The downside being, this takes some time so he really needs to be alone for it to work.AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:I was going to suggest that guards that you melee that are unalerted dont use a pager. Maybe more guards then? I think its a bit dumb that the heists are being designed around the idea of the 4 pager limit. That just seems unnecessarily limiting. Even if it was easy to abuse, its still you playing the game. If it seems easy after your 300th hour of play, that's not necessarily the games fault. SolidSnakesBandana fucked around with this message at 14:21 on Mar 16, 2018 |
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Mar 16, 2018 14:13
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I really like in the Raid that I can just kill as many Nazi guards as I like with my knife
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Mar 16, 2018 14:16
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It's been pointed out that the fundamental problem with PD2 stealth is the absence of an intermediate stage between total success and total failure. In earlier iterations of the game this was still possible, hence the existence of hybrid builds and skills like the (only recently removed) Silent Killer/Specialized Killing, but the game has not continued to develop in that direction. The later heists that offer both stealth and loud options - eg Transport: Train, Big Bank, GGC - are all too huge and complex for any team to battle it out using hybrid builds. With forced stealth heists, the skill tree revamp and the introduction of skill slots, the game has basically entirely dichotomized loud and stealth, so the only sensible way to react to a stealth fail is to restart entirely. I also think 'high level stealth' in PD2 is complete rubbish because: 1) There is no difference between Mayhem and Death Sentence in terms of stealth. 2) Stealth (and admittedly, loud also but it's easier to recover the situation) is highly dependent on RNG. 3) Stupid game mechanics like being able to avoid detection by crouch-moving in front of guards and cameras. But worst of all, if you ask me, is that stealth in this game is just boring as gently caress. I derive no satisfaction from it except easy xp and cash when both those things still mattered to me.
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Mar 16, 2018 15:00
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FAUXTON posted:How about suppressors don't just remove the sound from the universe but simply make it so they can't be heard through walls, and rifles don't count as suppressed at all because they're firing supersonic rounds. I.e. you're really discouraged from using guns unless you're beaning some mook from another rooftop. These would both be hard to implement and not fun to play. The walls thing is doable but it would have the same "single pixel gap issue," and I think it might be really processor-heavy depending on how it's implemented. Wastrel_ posted:I think a fair change to stealth would be to make it easier for guards to be alerted (currently with 3 detection you can literally crouch-move about 10m in front of a guard and not get detected, which is stupid as gently caress) Stealth maps released over the past 3 years are all designed around the current detection ranges of guards and civilians. I touch those values, they break. Wastrel_ posted:Stop pagers from going off when you kill unalerted guards (yes, like in Silent Assassin). The pager limit can remain or even be reduced if 4 pagers is found to be too many in such a system. This would let skilled players lock down almost any map in less than a minute. The maps are designed around players having four pagers. They're not meant to be locked down. SolidSnakesBandana posted:It's hard to say because achievements weren't in from the beginning, but I'm going to assume that "high level stealth play" is enjoyed by something like 0.5% of the entire Payday 2 population. Can someone link me some videos of this high level stealth play? Are there people out there so good that any stealth mission is effortless? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyafwW2RRxU There are a lot of people who now mod the game to make stealth harder, or give themselves additional restrictions like the guy above. Note that, for instance, he knows the nonrandom distribution of powerbox spawn positions, and the alert radius for broken display cases. The big difference, though, regarding high level stealth play is that the player knows the guard patrol areas, and in some cases, exactly where the guards can idle in each area. This makes it easy to time when you can safely complete objectives, and to set up kills on guards you want to kill. This means way, way less restarting, because RNG is almost nonexistent. The player understands why they fail, when they fail, so it's not frustrating. The heist that was notorious as the exception to this, Car Shop, recently got revised so that RNG doesn't determine a clean stealth run. SolidSnakesBandana posted:I realize I'm a scrub compared to most of you guys so I probably don't represent the target audience of what you're describing. I just know that restarting 50 times isn't fun, especially in a game with such a massive money/exp grind. All 50 of those restarts are straight up wastes of time and it just puts a sour taste in your mouth. Game mechanics should allow you to make mistakes and still be able to continue in some way, unless you're on the hardest difficulty or something. I'm afraid the mod's really only looking to address the highest difficulty. It may just be that payday 2 stealth isn't your cup of tea, which is fine- it requires a ton of memorizing map features compared to loud play. SolidSnakesBandana posted:Then there's something like Shadow Heist where the pieces you need might be right next to the entrance, or all the way in the fuckin back. That's what I meant by RNG factoring into the missions. What makes them so frustrating is, once again, the 4 pager hard limit. I don't know what you're referring to with Shadow Raid, usually the preferred tactic is 1. go in from the roof and take out cameras, 2. drop all the loot from the top floor into a safe spot by the docks, 3. clean out the interior, 4. pick up whatever else you want before you leave. The heist spawns much more loot than you strictly need to escape, even on the top difficulties. Mallcrashers straight up isn't supposed to be stealthable, that was a bug that they turned into a side job that's basically a joke. I've been able to do it 3-4 times solo, but the execution is miserable. Unlike maps that are designed for stealth (and a couple of the launch ones like Framing Frame 3), there's a lot of actual RNG in whether or not you can succeed. Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 15:57 on Mar 16, 2018 |
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Mar 16, 2018 15:20
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Discendo Vox posted:The big difference, though, regarding high level stealth play is that the player knows the guard patrol areas, and in some cases, exactly where the guards can idle in each area. This makes it easy to time when you can safely complete objectives, and to set up kills on guards you want to kill. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiKbSM1FGUg high level stealth in a nutshell
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Mar 19, 2018 19:15
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I'm having a very unlucky streak of cloakers kicking me in the balls when I'm hosing them with a flamethrower at point blank range 
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Mar 20, 2018 03:04
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37 new achievements... new heist (maybe even 2!) almost certainly incoming. Along with perhaps a weapons pack and maybe a sprinkling of new achievements for already extant heists.
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Mar 20, 2018 11:27
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Wastrel_ posted:37 new achievements... new heist (maybe even 2!) almost certainly incoming. Along with perhaps a weapons pack and maybe a sprinkling of new achievements for already extant heists. Or another new difficulty. One Down achievements for Death Wish! And Overkill! And Normal! gently caress it, let's have Payday hit the 2000 achievements mark.
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Mar 20, 2018 14:16
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Tempest_56 posted:Or another new difficulty. Please, no.
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Mar 20, 2018 16:28
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It appears likely that next week will feature a spring break event. The fbi files have several references that appear to indicate that the Elephant is going down, so that the mysterious antagonist group, "the Kataru" can get something he has.
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Mar 20, 2018 17:10
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Is it a prototype Mr Fusion, a brainwave-driven remote control for drones, a piece of random occult poo poo with cuneiform for us to translate or a Russian briefcase with research papers on cyborgs and/or psychic powers? Find out next week in Bag Throwing Simulator 2018!
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Mar 20, 2018 20:07
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Tempest_56 posted:Or another new difficulty. Heists make more sense. 8 difficulty achievements per heist, so we're probably getting 2 heists plus miscellaneous achievements for them. Maybe some new weapons too.
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Mar 20, 2018 20:43
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when are they going to give us a g11/ T&C encore
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Mar 20, 2018 20:47
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EorayMel posted:when are they going to give us a g11/ T&C encore i KNOW, right?
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Mar 20, 2018 21:29
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maswastaken posted:Is it a prototype Mr Fusion, a brainwave-driven remote control for drones, a piece of random occult poo poo with cuneiform for us to translate or a Russian briefcase with research papers on cyborgs and/or psychic powers? Find out next week in Bag Throwing Simulator 2018! The first time I thought I might play this game too much was when I was playing Farm Sim 15 and saw a powerbox on the side of a barn and thought "well that's no good, gonna have to set up turrets there so police don't shut off my power."
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Mar 20, 2018 21:33
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Hey, can someone give me a rundown on what guns I should have when playing this in VR? I'm re-installing after a long time, used to play pretty regularly around the time the john wick tie-in happened but it's been years at this point. I guess you can dual wield, but only with a melee weapon in one hand? Also uh, skill builds I guess... and I see you can swap between a bunch of different ones, which is real nice. What else should I know?
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Mar 21, 2018 05:40
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Bhodi posted:Hey, can someone give me a rundown on what guns I should have when playing this in VR? I'm re-installing after a long time, used to play pretty regularly around the time the john wick tie-in happened but it's been years at this point. I guess you can dual wield, but only with a melee weapon in one hand? The big difference with VR is that stability isn't a thing so get a minigun/lmg/etc and go hog wild. For skill builds and perk deck the new hotness a lotta people are loving with is Stoic, wherein instead of a throwable you get a flask of booze. Drinking the booze makes the pain go away. Normal damage is replaced with ennui/depression DoT ticks that can be wiped with violence and/or booze. Other noteworthy new stuff: akimbo autoshotguns is a thing, as is putting duckbills on them. Also the guy in charge of balance is bad at his job and so LMGs aren't just hot for VR but are absurdly good across the board, much like autoshotguns and any method of making fire and/or explosions happen Over There. Ninja Edit: Oh yeah Sniper rifles got an AOE attack so they can be like lovely shotguns. That thing with the guy in charge of balance being bad, this was his idea for how to "fix" sniper rifles being mediocre-to-bad in a horde shooter. chairface fucked around with this message at 06:52 on Mar 21, 2018 |
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Mar 21, 2018 06:49
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Discendo Vox posted:I will say that I'm not doing any of the most commonly proposed "quick fix" ways of making stealth harder, all of which are terrible. I've seen mods with faster alert time, wider enemy viewcones, even a flat pager reduction and re-introducing a small alert radius for silenced weapons, which is just I know! Add a pager reduction for higher difficulties, but introduce a QTE to allow you to avoid setting off pagers! Yes this is a joke
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Mar 21, 2018 06:50
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chairface posted:Ninja Edit: Oh yeah Sniper rifles got an AOE attack so they can be like lovely shotguns. That thing with the guy in charge of balance being bad, this was his idea for how to "fix" sniper rifles being mediocre-to-bad in a horde shooter. Graze is actually hilarious effective, if you ace it and can nail headshots on a consistent basis. It'll probably get a nerf.
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Mar 21, 2018 10:41
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Shooting Blanks posted:I know! Add a pager reduction for higher difficulties, but introduce a QTE to allow you to avoid setting off pagers! What I'm planning for Golden Grin is: 1. No preplanning. At all. Handily, the current heist editor is stripping preplanning out anyways, so I don't have to do anything! 2. The only stairs will be the ones at the front of the casino. 3. All possible guards and cameras spawn (this really just means there will be two more guards, one of the ones that walks around, and one stationary one by the non-VIP so you can't identify him in advance). 4. More lasers in the vault. Not sure I can do this one, for reasons that are...complicated. 5. No room or code number reminders. Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 15:54 on Mar 21, 2018 |
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Mar 21, 2018 15:47
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Discendo Vox posted:5. No room or code number reminders.
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Mar 21, 2018 16:38
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maswastaken posted:Please reconsider this in favour of a long series of "Hold it, you didn't put it in did you?" plus spurious alternatives with the correct sequence somewhere in the middle, ending in a "I don't know, something". I would, but I haven't mapped those assets from Rats/Cook-off yet, and I'd have to load them into Golden Grin. Maybe for the diamond heist remake. I have some ideas there.
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Mar 21, 2018 16:48
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Fellis posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiKbSM1FGUg I'm still mad that we don't have a Bill Murray Heister. Crabtree fucked around with this message at 01:34 on Mar 22, 2018 |
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Mar 22, 2018 01:30
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To steal the Wutang album from
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Mar 22, 2018 01:35
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There's a Bill Murray movie from 1990 that I've never even heard of? That's the most surprising thing from this post to me.
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Mar 22, 2018 04:30
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Discendo Vox posted:What I'm planning for Golden Grin is: Question about this: does this mean that the only option will be to find the guitar case at the beginning instead of having the option of a loud opening, or is there a way to fudge this by placing the case by the limo?
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Mar 24, 2018 04:47
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TheObserver posted:Question about this: does this mean that the only option will be to find the guitar case at the beginning instead of having the option of a loud opening, or is there a way to fudge this by placing the case by the limo? Gotta find the guitar case. Without getting into spoilertown, things would break otherwise, sorry. Oh, by the way, on a completely unrelated note, I’ve figured out how to make custom laser grids and killzone triggers. Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 04:51 on Mar 24, 2018 |
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Mar 24, 2018 04:49
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Discendo Vox posted:Gotta find the guitar case. Without getting into spoilertown, things would break otherwise, sorry.
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Mar 24, 2018 11:03
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maswastaken posted:When can we expect The Big Bank's vault entrance to start gassing us? I expect the knockout gas to have been swapped with the poison tear gas that the cops use, thus killing the cops in the control room, resulting in the heist inevitably going loud after you helplessly watch the locked room full of pagers go unanswered.
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Mar 25, 2018 08:58
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Too unfair, IMO. What should happen is about 30 seconds after the gas is released, there should be a ringing phone that needs to be answered or the alarm should activate. “This is Mortimer, at the - control room -, your money is safe. How can I help you?”
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Mar 26, 2018 20:38
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Make all stealth maps have the same rng variance of GO BANK or bust
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Mar 26, 2018 20:46
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EorayMel posted:Make all stealth maps have the same rng variance of GO BANK or bust I had been 25-100 for around a year before I ever got the car mechanic guy demanding we give him some of the take. I thought it was a new thing they'd just added or something. 
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Mar 26, 2018 21:08
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VOX https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9arZybBz33k WHAT DID YOU DO
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Mar 29, 2018 19:17
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Kikas posted:VOX overdrill secrets part 2?!!?
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Mar 29, 2018 19:26
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Nah it's probably to do with Viklund (who voices Bain) being off to do his own work now.
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Mar 29, 2018 19:36
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I’m in DC for a conference, I haven’t done jack. But I did stop by the Riggs building, the basis of Big Bank, and it turns out it’s getting turned into a museum.
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Mar 29, 2018 19:49
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Discendo Vox posted:I’m in DC for a conference, I haven’t done jack. But I did stop by the Riggs building, the basis of Big Bank, and it turns out it’s getting turned into a museum. much like the search for the secret
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Mar 29, 2018 19:54
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Vox, is Bain Baldwin.
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Mar 29, 2018 20:41
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John Murdoch posted:Vox, is Bain Baldwin. I thought they were going that route, but it looks like he’s just some guy.
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Mar 29, 2018 20:54
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