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I apologize that I was not more clear. I’m not trying to say “oh he’s not really native cause he looks like a white dude”, I was more speaking to the (western? probably global?) societal issue of “how you look is how you’re treated”. The optics still play out to “three white all star champs” even if that might not be 100% accurate. E: yeah I can’t tell if Shangela was just marathoning GoT and got stuff jumbled, or if she’s never seen an episode. It could go either way zelah fucked around with this message at 18:01 on Mar 16, 2018 |
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Mar 16, 2018 17:51
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I still can't get over Shangela saying Ned was put under a guillotine. It's super evident that her knowledge of Game of Thrones is probably just memes.
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Mar 16, 2018 17:52
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Pigasus posted:Also, wouldn't it be hilarious watching Shangela go GAME OF THROOONES at everything while thinking about how everybody is going to dogpile her on the last episode? It would be less grating and more hilarious. I think that's the joke the editors wanted to make with showing that footage OVER and OVER again while knowing that she's going to reap what she sow because of it. Totally agreed, they could have done so much more to properly telegraph this and make it entertaining to the audience. I think the longer the show goes on, the more apparent it becomes that the success the show has found has a lot more to do with the contestants being immediately endearing than with the production company being super skilled at what they do (crafting satisfying storylines out of raw footage and helping the contest give off the impression of fairness). The tone of the show has also drifted significantly since the start while the producers figured out exactly what they wanted to do with it, from a tongue-in-cheek parody of America’s Next Top Model and all of its faux-inspirational schlock, to a super bitchy/cutthroat take on Project Runway and its design challenges, to the current “Rupaul’s comedy/variety hour” type show we’ve had since around S7. I think being able to adapt has kept it interesting over time, but the fans all want/expect something different out of it and nobody really goes home all that happy at the end of the season.
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Mar 16, 2018 18:18
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Ubiquitous_ posted:I still can't get over Shangela saying Ned was put under a guillotine. It's super evident that her knowledge of Game of Thrones is probably just memes. constantly comparing herself to Daenerys, the most problematic character in the series, definitely makes that seem correct.
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Mar 16, 2018 18:26
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Where is this race discussion even headed? That Rupaul doesn’t like black queens, or the producers forced her to pick the white one? That the eliminated queens should have voted for two black queens instead of one? Like, I agree that Shangela deserves it more than Kennedy, but even if it was Trixie and Shangela at the end, there were still even odds that Trixie would win. She’s got a bigger career outside of drag and you can only crown one of them.
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Mar 16, 2018 18:30
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It's weird as hell to try to add a racial dimension to a contest that can, by definition, only be won by a minority. I'm a mixed race lesbian trans woman, so I'm all about some intersectionality (I'm it's avatar actually), but boy does it seem misplaced here. Shangela lost because the eliminated queens thought she was shady and none of her skills were better than another queens. She's a great drag queen, but in no way can this be described as a robbery.
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Mar 16, 2018 18:37
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I'd really only have been salty if Bebe was top two, she never deviated from her "poised, graceful, CAMEROOOON" mold, she's not as well-rounded as the other queens (not great at acting, comedy, dancing) and felt like she was being kept in the competition because she won the first season rather than on her merits. The most egregious example of that was in the talent show where Chi Chi got read hard for wearing jazz shoes... while Bebe went barefoot and there wasn't a peep from the judges about it.
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Mar 16, 2018 18:45
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Nemo posted:the producers forced her to pick the white one? There's a little more nuance to it I think but a lot of it does boil down to that. The argument I've heard is that the production company seems to reward the queen with the biggest social media following if they can, and the queens with the biggest social media followings disproportionately aren't black, for whatever reason. I think where those arguments are flawed is that they don't ever really seem to give credit to how the finale/competition played out, or they try and blame it on VH1 forcing Ru's hand or something (why a network that has revitalized itself in the past decade by going after black audiences would want to tip the scales against black competitors on a reality show is never seriously discussed).
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Mar 16, 2018 19:02
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Bebe was doing a dance that fit really well with not wearing any shoes though. Bebe's dance was inspired by African dance whereas ChiChi's shoes looked really dingy. Stuff like that is what makes the difference in my opinion.
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Mar 16, 2018 19:03
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I'm still wrapping my head around Thorgy being the only one to vote for Shangela. I miss when this was a competition show that riffed on other competitions and reality TV rather than a competition show that has a dumb reality TV twist thrown in at the end. I may not have wanted all the past queens who won to win, but I felt they all earned it. I feel Trixie earned this win and even Sasha hers, but the queens they lip synced against didn't earn the top 2 spot to lip sync against them and that sours the whole thing for me. From the start I was team Shangela while hoping Trixie made it far enough to also win. Before Ben left my mind had been changed to her, but after she left it was clearly the Shangela and Trixie show again. The finale ending like this was lame. Even lamer is not getting a reunion episode after those shenanigans. Woulda been fun and shady as gently caress probably.
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Mar 16, 2018 19:39
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the escape goat posted:Bebe was doing a dance that fit really well with not wearing any shoes though. Bebe's dance was inspired by African dance whereas ChiChi's shoes looked really dingy. Stuff like that is what makes the difference in my opinion. Sure, and it was easier for Chi Chi to do her dance routine in jazz shoes rather than heels. Could Bebe do her thing in heels? Maybe, probably. Chi Chi got roasted for her shoe choice, there was zero mention of Bebe going barefoot. Sure, it fits with Bebe's African-themed performance, but it's pure hypocrisy to call out Chi Chi for not wearing heels while ignoring Bebe. My point is that Bebe was mediocre all season and got a pass because of producer fuckery. She already won a crown, so she had to be kept around for whatever reason. Honestly I'd much rather have seen Aja in the top four than Bebe. It's not that I dislike Bebe, she just didn't bring it like many of the other queens and was really flat in the acting/comedy/dancing challenges.
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Mar 16, 2018 20:51
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Pellisworth posted:Sure, and it was easier for Chi Chi to do her dance routine in jazz shoes rather than heels. Could Bebe do her thing in heels? Maybe, probably. Chi Chi got roasted for her shoe choice, there was zero mention of Bebe going barefoot. Sure, it fits with Bebe's African-themed performance, but it's pure hypocrisy to call out Chi Chi for not wearing heels while ignoring Bebe. tbf Chi Chi looked pretty bad during the variety show in general and wasn't really selling her awkward baton routine. But them zeroing in on the flats when Bebe went shoeless was definitely a choice.
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Mar 16, 2018 20:54
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cis autodrag posted:It's weird as hell to try to add a racial dimension to a contest that can, by definition, only be won by a minority. I wouldn't go so far as to say there isn't a race issue in RPDR due to them all being minorities. There's definitely times when white queens get by on mediocrity while black queens don't receive the credit they deserve or even get unjustified ire. Hell, Kennedy on season 7 is the biggest example of that. However, this is not the case in this instance. The issue isn't Trixie getting the crown over a more deserving black queen. It's that the least deserving black queen replaced the most deserving one, thereby handing the "white" queen the win. If it were Shangie vs Trixie, it would've an easy decision for Ru. Bias against black queens was not a factor here. The only way you could spin it that way would be if you thought the jury conspired to pit Kennedy against Trixie because they knew it was the best shot at getting a non-black winner. To think that you'd need to be huffing Jinkx's perfume.
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Mar 16, 2018 21:00
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ngl I think Kennedy did the better lip sync, but as soon as Morgan announced the top two choice it was pretty clear that even if Kennedy mopped the stage with Trixie, Trixie was going to win. I love Kennedy to pieces, but no way was Ru going to crown her over Trixie. e: fwiw w/r/t the race stuff, I've never really thought it exists ON the show. I don't think the producers or Ru ever conspire to have a white (which Trixie isn't entirely, let's be fair, she may look way more white than aboriginal but girl's aboriginal) queen win. off the show the race stuff in the fanbase is definitely real and super loving disappointing.
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Mar 16, 2018 21:03
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makes me long for the simple days when we could argue whether or not Raven was robbed without a care in the world (she was) bring on s10!! just please gawd dont let it be boring
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Mar 16, 2018 21:36
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alf_pogs posted:makes me long for the simple days when we could argue whether or not Raven was robbed without a care in the world (she was) She shouldn't have let Tyra lip sync circles around her, then. Ah, old arguments... 
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Mar 16, 2018 21:46
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Raven is my fave queen of the entire series, but lol at people still thinking Tyra didn't earn it. Chad robbed Raven makes more sense.
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Mar 16, 2018 21:48
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esperterra posted:ngl I think Kennedy did the better lip sync, but as soon as Morgan announced the top two choice it was pretty clear that even if Kennedy mopped the stage with Trixie, Trixie was going to win. I think Kennedys problem in lip syncs is that she depends too much on her acrobatics and loses the emotion of the song. Trixie was bringing the heartbreak. I preferred Trixie's, but honestly lip syncs are so subjective that it's stupid to crown winners off it. It's fine as an eliminator because then it's just "which of the worst 2 are we cutting?", but to pick a winner personal taste comes into it too much and Ru doesn't consider judge feedback for the syncs.
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Mar 16, 2018 23:20
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Also, with all the drama going on, no one's giving any attention to the highlight of the finale: the adorable face Trixie makes after hearing about the single-take lip sync video.
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Mar 16, 2018 23:41
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Just listened to One Stone. Good, but not as good as Two Birds. Moving Parts is amazing though.
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Mar 17, 2018 00:05
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zelah posted:I apologize that I was not more clear. I’m not trying to say “oh he’s not really native cause he looks like a white dude”, I was more speaking to the (western? probably global?) societal issue of “how you look is how you’re treated”. The optics still play out to “three white all star champs” even if that might not be 100% accurate. Yeah, sorry, I didn't intend to grill you on the topic. I think it's fair to say that Trixie is generally thought of as white. But, she grew up in a poor Native American family where her step-father was abusive. She doesn't do much speaking publicly about her heritage and upbringing, but she has said that Trixie Mattel is the opposite of her childhood. Trixie as a character is a rich bratty artificial white girl. Trixie irl was dirt poor and suffered abuse whenever she was effeminate-- in fact, the name "Trixie" came from when her step-dad mocked her for being flamboyant and called her a "Trixie." If you read some her interviews, she briefly mentions the deep poverty and alcoholism which plague many Native American groups (including her own childhood), but it's not something she talks much about. You're not wrong-- she hasn't built her career on being a Native American queen, it's a very small part of her public persona. But it's not accurate to label her as "white." A more neutral way to put it is she's mixed-race with a rough childhood.
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Mar 17, 2018 00:50
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I agree with everyone in the top except Bebe. I cannot lie, part of that is probably that everything about Bebe reminds me of the coworker I want to throttle on a work-daily basis. Ru's workroom suit reminds me of Dippin' Dots I have not yet read any of this thread yet EDIT: Shangela's incredulous laugh at Bebe makes me happy Edit 2: jfc even Bebe's little sniff, it's like my coworker has an older Cameroonian doppelganger Edit 3: Seeing the makeup in progress is always so cool to me
Tendai fucked around with this message at 03:10 on Mar 17, 2018 |
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Mar 17, 2018 03:03
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I'm glad all the nutbar theories about BeBe being a mole were wrong. That would have been dumb as hell.
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Mar 17, 2018 03:06
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Daaaaamn that's a lot of power for the eliminated queens this is gonna be good final edit: It should have been Shangela and Trixie but I understand why Shangela didn't get in the top based on how that was decided, and I think Trixie and Kennedy both had good points in interviews and both worked hard so I'm down long may she reign Tendai fucked around with this message at 03:42 on Mar 17, 2018 |
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Mar 17, 2018 03:18
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I realized what I would want for Season 10: The same Final Four competition, but the person who won the "regular season" (like Shea) gets to choose their opponent instead of it being random chance.
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Mar 17, 2018 04:14
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Just got to watch the finale but I had seen some article titles about "robbery" and poo poo and this was not what I expected I definitely don't get what they see in Bebe though. She didn't deserve season 1 and she didn't deserve top 4
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Mar 17, 2018 04:24
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Pinwiz11 posted:I realized what I would want for Season 10: The same Final Four competition, but the person who won the "regular season" (like Shea) gets to choose their opponent instead of it being random chance. That or have the top queen be a lock for top 2, then have the 3rd and 4th place queen compete to see who lip syncs against the 2nd place queen for the remaining spot. Then we get our lip sync tourney but the girl who did the best gets something out of slaying the whole season.
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Mar 17, 2018 05:23
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Wow, I'm happy Trixie won, but I wish Shangela had of been in the top 2 and given a chance. The Jury should have only eliminated one for a 3-way lipsync. And that should have been Bebe. Oh and Wrecking Ball is a terrible finale song.
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Mar 17, 2018 10:42
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bebe kind of sucked this season but i swear if she puts out a club record i will immediately buy the gently caress out of it. her verses are great and silly and FUN
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Mar 17, 2018 12:36
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Yeah, putting Bebe in front of a mic always makes me happy af
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Mar 17, 2018 12:46
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cis autodrag posted:I'm glad all the nutbar theories about BeBe being a mole were wrong. That would have been dumb as hell. just trying to find a way of explaining the cognitive dissonance of how the gently caress she stayed in the race for so long I wanted to believe so bad
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Mar 17, 2018 14:34
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esperterra posted:tbf Chi Chi looked pretty bad during the variety show in general and wasn't really selling her awkward baton routine. But them zeroing in on the flats when Bebe went shoeless was definitely a choice. ChiChi apparently hurt her hand pretty badly backstage (you can see her wearing a latex glove on one hand and finger cots during the runway) and her baton routine suffered for it. It was said to be pretty good in rehearsals. e: That didn't make the outfit any better though, I kind of got the reference but it didn't do what it was meant to. angerbot fucked around with this message at 15:38 on Mar 17, 2018 |
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Mar 17, 2018 15:05
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Bebe is just how Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt’s Tituss Burgess imagines himself, right?
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Mar 17, 2018 15:43
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Huh, that actually checks out
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Mar 17, 2018 16:27
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Okay that's a permanent part of my Bebe headcanon now.
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Mar 17, 2018 16:45
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Bebe covering Titus Andromedon covering Beyonce I'd watch the poo poo out of that video
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Mar 17, 2018 17:19
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lmao Bebe as Titus is so loving accurate.cis autodrag posted:I think Kennedys problem in lip syncs is that she depends too much on her acrobatics and loses the emotion of the song. Trixie was bringing the heartbreak. Yep, wholeheartedly agree anyway the top 2 of the season are Ben and Shangela obviously but I love Trixie, she's my favorite and I am glad she won. But also, I am glad that Kennedy got some recognition especially from a jury of her queers. I feel bad for Shangela. The jury thing is pretty silly imho. the Kitty Girl thing was so good and so well done and I was marking out hard for it
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Mar 17, 2018 17:31
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Yeah I legit loved the music video it was just the right amount of talent and camp and Drag-Race-style low budget. 
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Mar 17, 2018 17:38
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Game Theory Time! Let's pretend Dela didn't leave the competition, and we take it at face value that she would have eliminated Kennedy. Final five: - Dela - Shangy - Trixie - Bebe - Morgan I think it's a fair assumption that Shanglea was going to win the Movie Challenge and LSFYL no matter what. I could see Ben getting into the Top 2, but Shangela and her fat suit would get the overall win. I'd expect that she'd eliminate Morgan, but who would be in the Final Two? Let's eliminate Bebe completely from Top 2, because... No. What do we have? Likely: If Morgan is eliminated, Dela v Shangy v Trixie, Top 2: Dela v Trixie I'm gagged: If Trixie is eliminatred, Dela v Shangy, v Morgan, Top 2: Dela v Shangy I'm shook: If Dela is elimiated, Shangy v Trixie v Morgan, Top 2: Shangy v Trixie I just don't see the Jury keeping Dela out of the Top Two, and I don't see Shangela winning over the jury if she played it safe. e: Fixed logic.
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Mar 17, 2018 18:08
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I would happily accept if the show would put every contestant in front of Thorgy in granny welder sunglasses perched on an elaborate couch asking slightly neurotic questions of every would-be finalist rather doing than those tired samey dinners with Ru at the end of each season.
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