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Another reason for the insane ghetto strategy could be that results from the so-called welfare ceiling and 225-hour rule came in: 190 more people employed, or 600 after the ministry had juked the stats, and at least 10,000 more children below the poverty line in a single year. The first order of business for the government after the last election was abolishing the official poverty line, however.
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Mar 6, 2018 14:21
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SplitSoul posted:The first order of business for the government after the last election was abolishing the official poverty line, however. One weird trick to get rid of poverty! Socialists hate it!
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Mar 6, 2018 14:59
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Buller posted:Strikes are coming to Denmark, most notably the anestesians and ortophedians are striking. Should create some chaos at least. Anaesthetists and radiologists, actually. This means delays in planned surgeries. I don't know of a speciality that doesn't depend on radiologists to review imaging. https://www.laeger.dk/nyhed/strejkevarsel-paa-alle-anaestesiafdelinger-og-radiologiske-afdelinger posted:Yngre Læger og Overlægeforeningen har i lighed med alle andre organisationer for offentligt ansatte udtaget ca. ti pct. af medlemmerne til konflikt. Men i stedet for at gå efter bestemte hospitaler eller regioner har overlægerne og de yngre læger valgt to specifikke områder: anæstesiafdelingerne og de radiologiske afdelinger.
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Mar 6, 2018 15:29
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I'd love to see a general strike, but it's nice to see the unions showing a little teeth for once at least. Reminder that the government has dropped all pretense of impartiality in the conflict. The Danish model is stone dead. Potrzebie posted:One weird trick to get rid of poverty! Socialists hate it! It was a ridiculously low poverty line, too.
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Mar 6, 2018 15:41
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We don't need a general strike, that would just empty the strike coffers faster. Just make the people whose absens is very noticable strike.
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Mar 6, 2018 19:45
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The whole idea of lockout is to empty the strike coffers by making everyone functionally unemployed rather than the 10% the unions have elected for strike.
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Mar 6, 2018 20:42
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Last time there was a public sector strike in Denmark, the government intervened after a month, and literally gave the employer side everything they wanted, contrary to all tradition and completely in the face of the danish model (considered by most industrial relations researchers to be among the most effective in the world). Traditionally, and really the only reasonable thing to do when there is a longer, unsolvable, strike, is for the government to just prolong the current agreement, and say 'sorry guys, if you can't figure it out, you get four more years of the same', but no, the loving social democratic party literally gave the employers everything they wanted, going directly against labours interests. It was found out afterwards, that the government had planned the intervention with the employer side beforehand and therefore the employer side could just lockout without fear, and say NO to all labour demands, because they knew that their demands would be implemented by law. It's such a loving disgrace, and another reason that the social democrats are the loving worst. I know several people who have sat in at the current negotiations (or rather been very close to the process, as aides or observers) and they all say that the employer side have been completely dismissive of everything. No giving an inch or even been willing to negotiate to any degree. The fear is obviously, that they know (like last time) that there will be an intervention and they will get their demands by the government anyway. They don't even have to plan it directly again, since they can now just expect it. I honestly think that if it happens again, it's time for unions to actually start resisting for real. If it happens again, the much loved danish model is dead.
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Mar 6, 2018 22:58
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Revelation 2-13 posted:Last time there was a public sector strike in Denmark, the government intervened after a month, and literally gave the employer side everything they wanted, contrary to all tradition and completely in the face of the danish model (considered by most industrial relations researchers to be among the most effective in the world). Traditionally, and really the only reasonable thing to do when there is a longer, unsolvable, strike, is for the government to just prolong the current agreement, and say 'sorry guys, if you can't figure it out, you get four more years of the same', but no, the loving social democratic party literally gave the employers everything they wanted, going directly against labours interests. It was found out afterwards, that the government had planned the intervention with the employer side beforehand and therefore the employer side could just lockout without fear, and say NO to all labour demands, because they knew that their demands would be implemented by law. It's such a loving disgrace, and another reason that the social democrats are the loving worst. That was the teachers, right? My mom had the theory after unions sold Alka that they did it to build a warchest for the coming strikes. It would show some forward thinking and that there's a general sense that solidarity is required between labor organizations because the government showed with the teachers that it won't act in good faith.
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Mar 6, 2018 23:22
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Demiurge4 posted:That was the teachers, right? Yeah, that was the teachers strike. The problem is that if the employers planned an intervention with the government again, there is literally nothing the unions can do under the current system. Strike->lockout->government intervenes - and gives the employers all they want. Unions can do nothing about that because it would be illegal. The only solution is to go back to a less structured and more... Uhm, aggressive, time and say gently caress you to government interventions unless it's in favor of labour (or at least neutral). Unfortunately neither the unions (traditionalist as they are) nor the general populace (complacent as they are) probably have the stomach for that sorta thing. We can literally only hope the government and employers stick to the best labour market system in the world, rather than gently caress it over for short term gains.
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Mar 7, 2018 00:01
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Do keep us posted on this, if the state intervention can be assumed to favour one party that's genuinely big news
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Mar 7, 2018 07:29
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How did gov intervention turn out in practice? If they tried that in more hardcore syndicalised places the employees would just laugh and stay on strike.
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Mar 7, 2018 07:44
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evil_bunnY posted:How did gov intervention turn out in practice? If they tried that in more hardcore syndicalised places the employees would just laugh and stay on strike. it carries the force of law so that'd be interesting Scandinavian unions are very powerful institutions, in exchange for strikes &c being highly ritualised affairs. the state is supposed to mediate between employers' confederation and union, and has the emergency power to halt a strike in the case of a legitimate emergency, like say a nurse's strike getting out of hand and leading to people potentially dying crucially, this system relies on quite a lot of good faith, and we're living in an era where that's in short supply. if government intervention and mediation can no longer be trusted it's a huge deal because it means that labour can no longer effectively enforce its end of the system to put it this way: scandinavian tripartism is the fundamental basis for social democracy in the form almost universally admired by anyone even slightly left-leaving in the western world. its erosion, more than any electoral result or government policy, marks the final death of our basic system of governance like, this sounds very dramatic because it legitimately is. this being inevitable has been the union left's critique of this system since the beginning
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Mar 7, 2018 08:15
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My GF works as part of Regions Apoteket, and she's been notified her workplace will be part of the conflict. From her email I also saw the teachers and doctors and nurses and a list of kommunes are also going out. I work in the private sector, so not going out, but this is as close to a General Strike as I probably will see in my life...
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Mar 7, 2018 08:23
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SplitSoul posted:You didn't even read them, did you? Ethnic Danes score worse than immigrants and their children on a wide range of issues that immigrants are routinely lambasted for, including support for religious freedom, gender equality, acceptance of minorities, willingness to pursue higher education and friendships with people outside their own ethnicity, etc. "Parallel societies" is the current mantra of pretty much every party in parliament, but especially the governing ones. The discussion is literally turned on its head. It's also the reason why the average Dane thinks there are three times as many Muslims here than is the case. No point in arguing. If brown people do it it's uncivilized snik-islamifisering, but when white people do it it's common sense nationalism and/or conservatism. Look, he's ready to start an argument about whether basic liberal values should be considered "good" because this poll makes white people look bad. Why waste your time?
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Mar 7, 2018 08:44
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It's not like Danes are alone in this problem, the Gothenburg harbor dispute wouldn't be such a sore point if the government hadn't actively worsened the situation by promising the employer that they would intervene on their behalf. That this battle is being fought by a Social Democratic government on behalf of a strongly anti-union danish company, who is happily losing millions to come out on top, is just the race to the bottom coming full circle.
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Mar 7, 2018 08:49
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Rust Martialis posted:My GF works as part of Regions Apoteket, and she's been notified her workplace will be part of the conflict. From her email I also saw the teachers and doctors and nurses and a list of kommunes are also going out. Government employee here, not selected to strike. But as Sophie Løhde is expected to give a lockout warning today at press conference at 11:00, I'm sure we'll be directly involved as well - at least from the 7th of April.
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Mar 7, 2018 09:12
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V. Illych L. posted:it carries the force of law so that'd be interesting When the govt forced the anesthesiologist back to work, they did emergency stuff but refused to fill out any financial paperwork. They also did the by-the-book kind of striking, scrupulously following all the CYA regs to letter, and refusing to do the usual OT that had become the norm. IMO yes the government is obviously to blame but you can still do better than throw your hands up and give up.
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Mar 7, 2018 09:16
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evil_bunnY posted:Oh that’s just loving peachy. yeah this would probably be the next step if it turns out the government genuinely can't be trusted keep in mind that this has also gone in favour of workers defending existing rights in the past
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Mar 7, 2018 11:20
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The only guys who didn't vote to gently caress the workers last time was EL and LA. http://www.ft.dk/samling/20121/afstemning/316.htm
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Mar 7, 2018 15:04
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evil_bunnY posted:How did gov intervention turn out in practice? More than 10% of teachers quit their jobs. Success!
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Mar 7, 2018 16:40
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SplitSoul posted:More than 10% of teachers quit their jobs. Success! It's probably way worse than that. I can't find it right now, but I think there was an article recently when showed that only about 40% of teachers from back then are left now (which is massive, even if there is some natural retiring and so on). About 25% more teachers left the school system than usually, in the following years and the number of newly educated teachers who quit after working for 1 year or less have exploded. So, while we may think it's terrifying that we lose that much experience and knowledge, in a form of enforced school sector brain-drain, from one of the most important institutions in our society, the assholes are without a doubt high-fiving each other, because they've taken a huge leap in furthering the end goal of dismantling the public schools, in favor of private education, and on. Here is solid research on why they're leaving - https://www.folkeskolen.dk/596569/forskning-stram-styring-faar-laerere-til-at-forlade-folkeskolen Revelation 2-13 fucked around with this message at 18:21 on Mar 7, 2018 |
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Mar 7, 2018 17:40
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And we already know which political parties poorly educated people generally gravitate towards. Edit: Social Democrats voted for lockout. Again. 
SplitSoul fucked around with this message at 19:44 on Mar 7, 2018 |
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Mar 7, 2018 18:16
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Yeah, there are now lockout warnings for 250.000 municipality employees, 70.000 region employees and 120.000 state employees, for the10th of April. It signals that the public sector employers feel they're in a very strong position, which one can only wonder why would be the case.
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Mar 7, 2018 22:13
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Yeah the gubmint got their negotiate-through-legislation plan lined up, just like with the teachers. The poor public sector employees are going to get suckerpunched 
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Mar 7, 2018 22:18
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What happens if people strike illegally?
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Mar 7, 2018 23:55
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You can’t strike on a lockout. E: If the government is demonstrably acting in bad faith (setting up the legal basis for a later lockout) the logical course of action is to slowdown/strike unannounced. Like right now. evil_bunnY fucked around with this message at 01:19 on Mar 8, 2018 |
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Mar 8, 2018 01:16
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A labor system based on labor unions and employer unions fighting with strikes and lockout when failing to reach an agreement, doesn't really work for the public sector. With the private sector, the state is an outside forcing a compromise on the parties. With the public sector, the state is one of the parties, so it just becomes politics as usual. When the public sector was smaller, the state had to take care as the workforce could bugger off to the private sector if the conditions weren't good enough. On the other hand, the state could ignore any unreasonable demands, as they had to backing of majority private sector to not favor the public sector. The public sector is now huge, it's impossible to figure out if public employees have poor, fair or good working conditions/wages as there isn't a private sector comparison for many groups. It becomes a bullshit populist theater of pretend old-school labor / employer conflict. But it's a completely different, and essentially the old tale of a planned economy being extremely hard to run without it turning into sections of the populace arguing about who deserves how many pie slices. There is no way to have a non dysfunctional relationship between labor unions and the state when the public sector has this size. I consider it an inherent failing of a socialist system and a planned economy, that it's effectively not possible to have a meaningful negotiation of employment terms. There is no neutral 3rd party, and one party is much stronger than the other. Edit: Oh and many public sector employees have absolutely lovely working conditions. I'm not taking sides in this conflict. Just saying there is no way to avoid it. It's going to be legislation-based from now on. It's too big to be otherwise. Edit 2: Especially teachers have seen their profession reduced from well-respected civil servant status with a high degree of autonomy and decentralization to well the opposite - no respect, micro-management and centralization. I certainly understand why they are upset at seeing their power to influence these conditions disappear with the shift towards legislation instead of negotiation and labor conflicts. But it's been a political decision (from the majority of parties left to right) to dismantle their privileges, then their rights - most of them voted for the politicians implementing it. The socialist Jørgen S Dich predicted most of this 30-40 years ago in his book "Den Herskende Klasse" (The Ruling Class), with the technocracy taking over control of everything and the fight for the swing-voters causing the working class to be sold out. PederP fucked around with this message at 14:29 on Mar 8, 2018 |
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Mar 8, 2018 13:48
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Public labour has to start to not loving cooperate. We are to loving nice.
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Mar 9, 2018 09:33
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NSFW:
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Mar 15, 2018 15:05
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TheRat posted:NSFW: Context?
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Mar 15, 2018 16:13
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MiddleOne posted:Context? She posted this on facebook the day the film about Utøya was released 
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Mar 15, 2018 16:25
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https://twitter.com/MariHuup/status/974363507167846400 lol
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Mar 15, 2018 22:25
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Hanif Bali: Russian influencer agent or just useful idiot? You decide!
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Mar 16, 2018 17:12
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In this case probably useful idiot. https://twitter.com/hanifbali/status/974696110425083906?s=21 What is the thing about anyways, since the article is behind a paywall and I don’t read local newspapers like DN  ?Something about Oksanen? Also what is the deal about New Karolinska, as far as I understood it is the normal political gently caress up in terms of cost overruns, nepotism and corruption that we see on a regular basis, irrespective of party ie see Gothenburg. Or is it more ?
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Mar 16, 2018 19:59
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Oh boy, where do we begin with Nya Karolinska - Paret Svenonius, på varsin sida av näringslivet / privata skötte delar av affärerna. - Man tog sig an att gå med på en upphandling trots att det bara kom in ett bud från privat konsortium. - Vårdmodellen man använder är Michael Porters tankeexperiment "Värdebaserad vård" - vilket, såklart, visat sig vara gift. - Man gav riskkapitalisterna en ränta på 15%~ trots att man som motpart är staten, och således har skattekranen - vilket de facto är riskfritt. - Man anställde en chef från BCG, som sedan anställde BCG för uppskattningsvis en miljard konsulttimmar. (En otrolig mängd av vilka saknar underlag) - Denna enorma investering till trots lyckas man inte ens leverera fungerande vård. Sjukhuset fungerar inte ens. AMA, I turned down an offer to do a phd in operations management on-site @ NKS
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Mar 16, 2018 20:56
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so that means I can be a cheapskate and post about posting instead of having some wit or spending any more on comedy avs for people. Which I'm also incapable of. Comedy.
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Retarded Goatee posted:Oh boy, where do we begin with Nya Karolinska Was there anywhere in this miserable failure sought any input from actual hospital staff? E: please do tell us more about that offer and what made you reject it. E2: Cardiac posted:In this case probably useful idiot. But wait, there's more! He feels compelled to lie about the source for some reason. https://cached-images.bonnier.news/...put-format=webp Potrzebie fucked around with this message at 21:16 on Mar 16, 2018 |
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Mar 16, 2018 21:10
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Cardiac posted:In this case probably useful idiot. Well during the day the story spun from 'Bali spread inappropriate documents' to 'Bali lied about how he got a hold of said documents' so things are certainly escalating. quote:Men en skärmdump från en konversation på sociala medier visar att han tidigare gett en helt annan version. Då svarade han: ”Fick det av en bekant”. Bali is currently busy being grilled by both his party and SÄPO so I wouldn't expect any clarity until tomorrow. Cardiac posted:Also what is the deal about New Karolinska, as far as I understood it is the normal political gently caress up in terms of cost overruns, nepotism and corruption that we see on a regular basis, irrespective of party ie see Gothenburg. Way more. MiddleOne fucked around with this message at 21:19 on Mar 16, 2018 |
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Mar 16, 2018 21:16
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Potrzebie posted:Was there anywhere in this miserable failure sought any input from actual hospital staff? Well it was nothing super-exciting - I finished up my masters at the Stockholm University School of Business and had good recommendations from a group of senior professors and p. good grades - ultimately decided to go into private sector because Stockholm cost of living. As operations management is a field both preoccupied with efficency and outcome they would probably test a lot of theoretical models regarding the OPS-model
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Mar 16, 2018 21:43
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Retarded Goatee posted:Oh boy, where do we begin with Nya Karolinska förklara gärna vill höra, för det jag hört om själva idén bakom verkar inte dålig, bara inte anpassad till svensk sjukvård. mvh sjuksköterskestuderande
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Mar 16, 2018 22:01
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MiddleOne posted:
In my head I imagine Bali trying to own those lefist SÄPO-scrubs with his sick burns, and then get upset when he realises that the real world doesn't work like Twitter.
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Mar 16, 2018 23:21
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