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zapplez posted:Prohibition of firearms might have the same effect. It does not Turns out durable goods used for completely optional hobbies operate entirely differently than consumable commodities which happen to be physiologically addictive, who could have ever imagined this.
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Mar 16, 2018 18:14
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zapplez posted:Prohibition of firearms might have the same effect. No, it won't.
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Mar 16, 2018 18:19
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Maybe I'll just repost that metastudy and its abstract on every page in order to disrupt the endless cycle of this thread. "Maybe gun control doesn't even work." "It does, here's the proof." "What if I cherry-pick this study on Brady laws and then equivocate it with all gun control?" "Bad faith arguments aren't as convincing as a metastudy of over 100 studies on a wide variety of countries and gun control schemes"*pages and pages of bad faith posting, dishonest arguments about whether a shooting at a school is a school shooting, whether it's bad to shoot up a school if the bullets all happen to miss this time, whether human life even has value, slippery slop nonsense, etc ensue in order to change the subject until everyone hopefully forgets about the evidence* "Well why don't we ban alcohol then it would save more lives what about alcohol huh?" "Prohibition doesn't work, other approaches to alcohol would save more lives" "Well........maybe gun control doesn't even work!  "
VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 18:30 on Mar 16, 2018 |
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Mar 16, 2018 18:26
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VitalSigns posted:It does not Just so you are clear I was talking about the outrighting banning of guns. Just like your term prohibition for alcohol. Show me a study where the outright banning of all guns worked well vincentpricesboner fucked around with this message at 18:41 on Mar 16, 2018 |
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Mar 16, 2018 18:31
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zapplez posted:Just so you are clear I was talking about the outrighting banning of guns. Just like your term prohibition for alcohol. Or are you talking about a ban on certain classes of firearms like machine guns, or handguns, or something.
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Mar 16, 2018 18:34
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zapplez posted:Prohibition of firearms might have the same effect. I'm going to take every gun you ever see.
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Mar 16, 2018 18:37
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fishmech posted:I'm going to take every gun you ever see. Checkmate liberals. Rent-A-Cop fucked around with this message at 18:47 on Mar 16, 2018 |
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Mar 16, 2018 18:44
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Decide that v1 of your post was too on-the-nose?
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Mar 16, 2018 18:49
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VitalSigns posted:Are you talking about a total ban on all guns, zero guns allowed? Yup. Im in favour of reasonable gun control. I've gone over it several times. Total ban aka prohibition is a loving luncatic idea. But some hillary bros in here thinks its a real option on the table.
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Mar 16, 2018 18:50
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Marijuana posted:No, it won't. You should do some history of countries where the entire citizenry was disarmed and how it went.
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Mar 16, 2018 18:51
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zapplez posted:You should do some history of countries where the entire citizenry was disarmed and how it went. No, I'm not going to do that. Also, gently caress off. zapplez posted:hillary bros lmao
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Mar 16, 2018 18:52
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zapplez posted:Yup. Im in favour of reasonable gun control. I've gone over it several times. To my knowledge no country has ever tried so there's no data on it. We know that banning classes of firearms works and works well, so at worst a total ban would probably be at least as effective at reducing firearm deaths as say Australia's laws. Whether it would be any more effective is an open question, I doubt it, but it would also never ever happen so it's a bit nutty to start hyperventilating over some shitposts.
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Mar 16, 2018 18:55
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r.y.f.s.o. posted:Decide that v1 of your post was too on-the-nose? This is how I crush capitalism. Edit: I'd have just left it but we don't need a puckins situation ITT. Rent-A-Cop fucked around with this message at 18:57 on Mar 16, 2018 |
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Mar 16, 2018 18:55
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zapplez posted:You should do some history of countries where the entire citizenry was disarmed and how it went. Why don't you list 'em? zapplez posted:Yup. Im in favour of reasonable gun control. I've gone over it several times. I'm currently using a giant bulldozer to destroy every gun within 4 miles of you.
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Mar 16, 2018 19:19
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zapplez posted:Yup. Im in favour of reasonable gun control. I've gone over it several times. "I'm in favor of this reasonable thing that nearly all gun control advocates are in favor of and that gun control opponents usually oppose. But I'm definitely not in favor of this less reasonable thing that has been tried almost nowhere, and that almost no one supports! Prove that it would work, hillary bros!"
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Mar 16, 2018 19:26
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QuarkJets posted:"I'm in favor of this reasonable thing that nearly all gun control advocates are in favor of and that gun control opponents usually oppose. Totally The ones in this thread asking for a total disarmament, they should be shouted out of this thread as well. It adds nothing to say "ban all the guns". Hell there was 3 or 4 posters in the last few pages that said they are for total disarmament. vincentpricesboner fucked around with this message at 20:05 on Mar 16, 2018 |
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Mar 16, 2018 20:01
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VitalSigns posted:To my knowledge no country has ever tried so there's no data on it. Are you being obtuse? Did you sleep through your history classes in high school?
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Mar 16, 2018 20:01
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zapplez posted:Did you sleep through your history classes in high school? Nerd.
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Mar 16, 2018 20:03
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zapplez posted:Are you being obtuse? Did you sleep through your history classes in high school? List the countries with a total ban on all civilian ownership of firearms of any type, no licensing, no exceptions.
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Mar 16, 2018 20:05
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zapplez posted:Are you being obtuse? Did you sleep through your history classes in high school? It’s a wonder how you manage to sleep at all, given how the ideology you defend murders kids every day
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Mar 16, 2018 20:06
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just sitting at the bar, drunk on GUN
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Mar 16, 2018 20:21
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Flowers For Algeria posted:It’s a wonder how you manage to sleep at all, given how the ideology you defend murders kids every day I haven't defended them once? I think we need stricter laws and laws that aren't being followed properly like in Florida's shooting or Texas's last year, they need to be followed better.
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Mar 16, 2018 20:28
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I hope someone comes to take your guns one day and they say something like "Sir / Ma'am, I'm just doing my job." and they are indifferent and unpleasant and while you're waiting for them you think back to the time you fantasized about taking out at least a couple SWAT team members in a firefight, imagining your tactical pants producing magazine after magazine stuffed full of hand-pressed bullets, your tricked out DDM4 at your side, defending your freedom with each perfectly weighted 2-stage trigger pull. And then you kind of snap out of it because the unpleasant government employee is all set and gives you your paperwork, and you go out for a burrito because mexican sounds pretty good and they put the wrong ingredients in yours but you don't notice until you get home. I hope that happens. zapplez posted:ban all the guns. Hell, same.
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Mar 16, 2018 20:30
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VitalSigns posted:List the countries with a total ban on all civilian ownership of firearms of any type, no licensing, no exceptions. Venezuela is a recent one. Wouldn't want guns going around when the country started an epic food crisis. Two years after their initial gun ban, their murder rate is still top 3 in the world. Syria was asking for its citizens to disarm before the uprising there. But looking back a few years something that I am sure was covered in your history classes is that Stalin like to confiscate guns from his citizenry. His kill count was pretty loving high. Oh and the whole Uganda genocide in the 70s. But yeah, sure, there has never been an example of this. Disarmament never has preceded minorities or the poors being slaughtered. 
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Mar 16, 2018 20:45
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r.y.f.s.o. posted:I hope someone comes to take your guns one day and they say something like "Sir / Ma'am, I'm just doing my job." and they are indifferent and unpleasant and while you're waiting for them you think back to the time you fantasized about taking out at least a couple SWAT team members in a firefight, imagining your tactical pants producing magazine after magazine stuffed full of hand-pressed bullets, your tricked out DDM4 at your side, defending your freedom with each perfectly weighted 2-stage trigger pull. And then you kind of snap out of it because the unpleasant government employee is all set and gives you your paperwork, and you go out for a burrito because mexican sounds pretty good and they put the wrong ingredients in yours but you don't notice until you get home. Nah I'd just sell them. I only use them to shoot pop cans and rarely hunt turkeys. Not a big deal. But I am super privileged and live in a safe area of Canada. But lol@ at the guys you disarming that live in Chicago on the south side. They might not even give them up  (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Mar 16, 2018 20:47
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r.y.f.s.o. posted:I hope someone comes to take your guns one day and they say something like "Sir / Ma'am, I'm just doing my job." and they are indifferent and unpleasant and while you're waiting for them you think back to the time you fantasized about taking out at least a couple SWAT team members in a firefight, imagining your tactical pants producing magazine after magazine stuffed full of hand-pressed bullets, your tricked out DDM4 at your side, defending your freedom with each perfectly weighted 2-stage trigger pull. And then you kind of snap out of it because the unpleasant government employee is all set and gives you your paperwork, and you go out for a burrito because mexican sounds pretty good and they put the wrong ingredients in yours but you don't notice until you get home.
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Mar 16, 2018 20:50
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zapplez posted:Venezuela is a recent one. Wouldn't want guns going around when the country started an epic food crisis. Two years after their initial gun ban, their murder rate is still top 3 in the world. The Venezuela ban allowed certain citizens to own guns. Uganda appears to also be the same. The USSR also never completely banned guns. Try again please Edit: And maybe try to come up with links for how the atrocities you're talking about happened and how gun control doesn't actually prevent any of that. Seems like other factors might be a tad bit more influential?
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Mar 16, 2018 20:52
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Is everyone else in this thread a Canadian???Rent-A-Cop posted:I too have fantasies about surly government agents. redundant IMO
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Mar 16, 2018 20:55
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zapplez posted:Totally Why do you think "total disarmament" is bad? zapplez posted:Venezuela is a recent one. Venezuela never disarmed though?
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Mar 16, 2018 20:58
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r.y.f.s.o. posted:redundant IMO I mean, they'll murder your kids, but they're polite about it.
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Mar 16, 2018 21:02
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zapplez posted:Venezuela is a recent one. Wouldn't want guns going around when the country started an epic food crisis. Two years after their initial gun ban, their murder rate is still top 3 in the world. http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/venezuela quote:Restricted Firearms and Ammunition zapplez posted:Syria was asking for its citizens to disarm before the uprising there. http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/syria zapplez posted:But looking back a few years something that I am sure was covered in your history classes is that Stalin like to confiscate guns from his citizenry. His kill count was pretty loving high. quote:On December 12, 1924 the Central Executive Committee of the USSR promulgated its degree "On the procedure of production, trade, storage, use, keeping and carrying firearms, firearm ammunition, explosive projectiles and explosives", all weapons were classified and divided into categories. Now the weapons permitted for personal possession by ordinary citizens could only be hunting weapons. Welp, I'm getting bored trying to chase down your Gish Gallop bullshit, if you want to claim a single country has ever totally banned firearms with no exceptions, provide your own citations rather than just making poo poo up and counting on other people not calling you on your lies. VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 21:14 on Mar 16, 2018 |
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Mar 16, 2018 21:12
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I can take or leave the grumpy gun grabber idea, but the burrito has to be terrible, that part is a dealbreaker. I'd also settle for a burrito that's not itself bad, but definitely not what you ordered, as long as they forget your chips as well. Anyway, ban all guns.
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Mar 16, 2018 21:13
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Oh this is the part of the thread where the pro-mass-shooting side derails into endless bullshitting and quibbling over meaningless poo poo until a few pages from now they can try "maybe gun control doesn't even work did u think of that"
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Mar 16, 2018 21:24
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VitalSigns posted:Oh this is the part of the thread where the pro-mass-shooting side derails into endless bullshitting and quibbling over meaningless poo poo until a few pages from now they can try "maybe gun control doesn't even work did u think of that" i’m frankly surprised that none of them has been intellectually bankrupt enough to go either, “b-but breivik,” or “mass stabbings in china faaaaaaaaaart” usually somebody is dumb enough to do that at this point
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Mar 16, 2018 21:47
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VitalSigns posted:Hmmm...nope Venezeula did ban civilian guns, your site is old lovely info. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-18288430 Syria did ask the citizenry to disarm before their uprising https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052970204621904577017921854605682 Stalin most defiently did disarm any political opponents or anyone that opposed their plans at all. Stop trying to be all "pro mass shooting side" thats loving disgusting. I want them to stop too. I dont think banning certain scary rifles will make them stop when they were committed by those with shotguns and pistols and bolt action rifles before. I want these psychos to get more help before they do it. I want better monitoring of high risk people. I want domestic violence laws enforced. I want mandatory background checks. I want spouses interviewed before a new gun license. I want better poverty programs. Less war on drugs. I want what 90% of you want. But the wackos on your side that think the USA can be disarmed are disillusion idealists. I dont want "more mass shootings" because I think disarment of the citizenry is a loving ridiculous idea. vincentpricesboner fucked around with this message at 22:38 on Mar 16, 2018 |
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Mar 16, 2018 22:30
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zapplez posted:Venezeula did ban civilian guns, your site is old lovely info. zapplez posted:Syria did ask the citizenry to disarm before their uprising zapplez posted:Stalin most defiently did disarm any political opponents or anyone that opposed their plans at all. zapplez posted:Stop trying to be all "pro mass shooting side" thats loving disgusting. I want them to stop too. I dont think banning certain scary rifles will make them stop when they were committed by those with shotguns and pistols and bolt action rifles before. zapplez posted:I want these psychos to get more help before they do it. I want better monitoring of high risk people. I want domestic violence laws enforced. I want mandatory background checks. I want spouses interviewed before a new gun license. I want better poverty programs. Less war on drugs. Those are good programs too, this fact does not mean that gun control isn't proven to save lives. I'm sorry that your refusal to believe the evidence from every other developed country's experience with gun control makes you pro-murder. VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 22:48 on Mar 16, 2018 |
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Mar 16, 2018 22:45
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quote:Disarmament doesn't stop gun violence, is a tool of control by the state, is necessary for self defense due to fear of violent crime, etc This type of reasoning just seems weird coming from anyone in a first world democracy. Even if these problems were real, they are only effectively addressed by political, economic and social policies that are unrelated to firearms stats or whatever. Like, if the government is corrupt, promote legislation to fix it. If there's crime, there are ways to reduce it. If cops murder people all the time and you're scared, change the rules for them. If crazies do violence, treat them. Firearms don't factor into any of these solutions at all. Rather, they might even have a reactionary effect (like if I mowed a bunch of cops who were wrongfully arresting me, the police force would likely become even more militant and aggressive in the future, not less). If I ever went shopping and thought "This neighborhood is so dangerous here I'd better bring my semi-auto talisman of safety with 30 rounds with 0.5" RHA of penetration so I can kill criminals, the police, or the government if the need arises", I'd be struck by how lovely the place I lived was. The gun itself would seem like a shameful band-aid conspicuously retrograde to the goal of having a safe and happy place to live, like a leftover from a more primitive time, to be done away with as soon as possible. e. I would still take it, though, because my rear end in a top hat neighbor is always waving his gun around and if he get's in my face one more time I'll finally be able to Preen Dog fucked around with this message at 23:02 on Mar 16, 2018 |
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Mar 16, 2018 22:49
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Furthermore if the reason we need private arsenals is to overthrow the government, then we've already been disarmed because destructive devices (grenades, military explosives, RPGs, etc all the stuff you'd need to actually carry out an insurgency) are already strictly regulated along with machine guns. By all rights you should already be carrying out your fantasies of bombing police stations, airports, shopping malls, government buildings, etc, setting roadside bombs outside of military bases, murdering local officials and all the rest of it because the government is already tyrannical.
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Mar 16, 2018 22:53
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r.y.f.s.o. posted:I'd also settle for a burrito that's not itself bad, but definitely not what you ordered, as long as they forget your chips as well.
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Mar 16, 2018 22:59
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VitalSigns posted:Incorrect, the gunpolicy site quotes from the 2013 law that you're referencing, the BBC article is an incomplete summary. If I have to do your research for you and you don't offer the courtesy of even reading the citations I give you, I'm not going to take you seriously. Try again. http://www.businessinsider.com/r-venezuela-crushes-2000-guns-in-public-plans-registry-of-bullets-2016-8 http://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-29308509 https://www.theguardian.com/global-...-now-victims-of https://crimeresearch.org/2016/04/venezuela-homicide-rate-rose-after-2012-ban-on-private-ownership-of-guns/ Im starting to think if you cant even bother to do your own research and read my links you aren't arguing in good faith - You  My last point was specifically about that gun control wont stop mass shootings. Because they go on with all weapon types. In order to stop more of those from happening we need to work on preventing vulnerable people from having access to guns and more access to mental health support. A guy like Cruz shouldn't have been able to buy a gun. The Sutherland Springs shooter legally wasn't allowed to, but some lovely clerks didn't do their job. Can we not argue which of the particular gun control measures are the most worth while? I think we can both agree total disarmament is impossible in the USA anyways so who cares?
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Mar 16, 2018 23:01
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