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KillHour posted:
You literally flip-flop between "the software works" and "the software is breaking" right next to each other, and then admit that you need all of the software to work for what you're doing and it doesn't work. This means your whole system is broken. You don't have a solution. You just have broken software. KillHour posted:I did. I went back to an image 4 months old. Guess what? It wanted to update as soon as I connected it to the internet even though updates were disabled with GPO. The temporary fix was to block Microsoft's website and delete the files they snuck on there God knows how long ago. The long term solution will be to change the version of Windows I'm using to the long term support platform that doesn't have forced updates. This sure reads as you being massively incompetent at imaging things. Also there is no version of Windows 10 that doesn't have "forced updates". LTS versions just mean changes occur less often.
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Mar 16, 2018 19:26
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fishmech posted:You literally flip-flop between "the software works" and "the software is breaking" right next to each other, and then admit that you need all of the software to work for what you're doing and it doesn't work. This means your whole system is broken. We have multiple software packages and they work if you deploy them in a supported configuration. This is not a supported configuration (Windows 10 is not officially supported by one of the packages, but it's the only way to get them to 'work' side by side). I have to do things differently because of the constraints of a class or demo. This does not mean my whole system is broken, it means I have problems that I have to work around on occasion because the guys in R&D don't care if my job is miserable and don't want to spend time fixing things that will only ever happen in my special environment that no customer will ever have. But hey, you keep doing you fishmech. fishmech posted:This sure reads as you being massively incompetent at imaging things. Also there is no version of Windows 10 that doesn't have "forced updates". LTS versions just mean changes occur less often. https://blogs.technet.microsoft.com/uktechnet/2015/07/13/windows-10-licensing-logic/ quote:PCs running life-dependent, highly secure or mission-critical systems, for example in a life-support centre or a military aerospace controller etc. have the option to deploy point-in-time releases known as Long Term Service Branch (LTSB). These will not be updated with new features but will have security and critical updates applied, although the organisation can manage and control the distribution of these updates. LTSB releases will be supported for at least 5 years (10 years if the customer has software assurance). New LTSB releases will be made available every two-three years and customers will have the option whether to install them or not. Oh hey look you're wrong. KillHour fucked around with this message at 19:33 on Mar 16, 2018 |
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Mar 16, 2018 19:30
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Edit: ^^^^^ You still probably want to get at least SOME help in streamlining your setup regardless if your dev team wants to help you or not. A simple hey it breaks X amount of times costing Y amount of lost sales, training time, etc. Please Fix. General rule of thumb is try the get things right the first time around because chances are that's what's going to get pushed into production  KillHour posted:Edit: I deleted the part where I talked about the security patches because it was misleading. I installed some security patches on other VMs on the same server that were not the same as the VMs I don't want to update. That somehow caused the other VMs to update spontaneously. Yes, I tried reverting those to before the update as well - still happened. I think it's because they all use the same volume licensing and there's something with the license phone-home that tells the Microsoft servers "This machine should already be updated." Correlation is not Causation. It's just that the house of cards you(or your dev team or whoever) built finally decided to collapse on you. It sucks. You probably want to have a really good baseline snapshot(s) for all your VMs so that you can push button and bring it back to a usable/known working state. From all your descriptions it seems like you have a super kludgey frankenbuild of craziness going on. You'd probably want to push some of your findings up the stack or do your dev team so they can streamline/fix some of it so you're not left dangling in front of customers next time. Stanley Pain fucked around with this message at 19:37 on Mar 16, 2018 |
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Mar 16, 2018 19:34
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KillHour posted:We have multiple software packages and they work if you deploy them in a supported configuration. This is not a supported configuration (Windows 10 is not officially supported by one of the packages, but it's the only way to get them to 'work' side by side). I have to do things differently because of the constraints of a class or demo. This does not mean my whole system is broken, it means I have problems that I have to work around on occasion because the guys in R&D don't care if my job is miserable and don't want to spend time fixing things that will only ever happen in my special environment that no customer will ever have. But hey, you keep doing you fishmech. So you're mad that software which doesn't support your environment, doesn't support your environment, and this made you had a big whiny rant about how Windows 10 is evil. And once again, yes, it does mean your whole system was broken, because you were trying to run things side by side and couldn't, and can just barely make it work now through a bunch of hacky poo poo that will probably break once again. KillHour posted:https://blogs.technet.microsoft.com/uktechnet/2015/07/13/windows-10-licensing-logic/ That literally says they will be updated. Are you illiterate? "Security and critical updates" are the things that broke your trash software setup.
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Mar 16, 2018 19:37
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Stanley Pain posted:General rule of thumb is try the get things right the first time around because chances are that's what's going to get pushed into production The problem is I do have a kludgey frankenbuild and that is literally never going to change. There is no appetite in the organization to put R&D effort into what I specifically need it for and when I asked if QA could test new releases on my environment I was explicitly told no. I'm responsible for making it work and I'm a one man show with no real time for anything except fixes when things come up. I'm sorry if you think that not enough thought was put into this, but that's where I am. I was given 2 weeks to build this thing from scratch before I had to use it for the first time and I've been slowly fixing things as I can. I really do have good backups of everything that I make before I change anything and multiple copies of those backups, but rolling back didn't work and I don't have time to figure out root cause or anything, I have class Monday. I got it working and that's all I really care about right now. KillHour fucked around with this message at 19:43 on Mar 16, 2018 |
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Mar 16, 2018 19:39
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fishmech posted:So you're mad that software which doesn't support your environment, doesn't support your environment, and this made you had a big whiny rant about how Windows 10 is evil. And once again, yes, it does mean your whole system was broken, because you were trying to run things side by side and couldn't, and can just barely make it work now through a bunch of hacky poo poo that will probably break once again. No it loving wasn't, it was the Fall Creators Update which is EXPLICITLY not a security or critical update also you missed this part: quote:although the organisation can manage and control the distribution of these updates.
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Mar 16, 2018 19:40
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KillHour posted:No it loving wasn't, it was the Fall Creators Update which is EXPLICITLY not a security or critical update also you missed this part: The Fall Creators Update, which broke your kludgey pile of poo poo software with the security updates in it. You've already established you don't know what you're doing, and it's nearly always cleaning up security issues which breaks old shoddy software. They're talking about controlling actual adding in new features for what you can control and being able to delay security stuff. That means your shitball software will still break on it no matter how you scream about demanding the square peg in the round hole.
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Mar 16, 2018 19:44
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KillHour, please find another job. You've been hung out to dry good and proper by your employer and you're tying yourself in knots trying to make a situation work that your support have point-blank refused to support you on. Find something, anything else, and walk the gently caress out while nuking everything you've put together for their benefit, because they clearly don't deserve your commitment.
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Mar 16, 2018 20:01
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Doctor_Fruitbat posted:KillHour, please find another job. You've been hung out to dry good and proper by your employer and you're tying yourself in knots trying to make a situation work that your support have point-blank refused to support you on. Find something, anything else, and walk the gently caress out while nuking everything you've put together for their benefit, because they clearly don't deserve your commitment. You should see my posts in the Business Travel thread if you want to see the true extent of my Stockholm Syndrome at this company. The truth is I stick around because the contacts I'm making here are some of the most important people in my industry. I have some irons in the fire but I'm not going to jump for the first thing that comes my way - I'm paid well enough that I can afford to wait for the right move. In the meantime, all i can do is try to keep poo poo running and spend all my money on good whisky. A sincere thank you to everybody that offered advice. Yes, it's stupid that an OS update can brick our software and that QA somehow didn't find out about it until I told them. But at least I have a temporary fix and a more long-term solution I can pursue.
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Mar 16, 2018 20:13
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Doctor_Fruitbat posted:KillHour, please find another job. You've been hung out to dry good and proper by your employer and you're tying yourself in knots trying to make a situation work that your support have point-blank refused to support you on. Find something, anything else, and walk the gently caress out while nuking everything you've put together for their benefit, because they clearly don't deserve your commitment. I can't help but agree with this, they are just leaving you alone in the cold here, if you aren't already start sending out those resumes. Fake edit: KillHour posted:You should see my posts in the Business Travel thread if you want to see the true extent of my Stockholm Syndrome at this company. The truth is I stick around because the contacts I'm making here are some of the most important people in my industry. I have some irons in the fire but I'm not going to jump for the first thing that comes my way - I'm paid well enough that I can afford to wait for the right move. In the meantime, all i can do is try to keep poo poo running and spend all my money on good whisky. Are those connections really worth that much if they are with people who will just gently caress you over like this? It's your own life but I have to wonder. 
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Mar 16, 2018 20:30
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AVeryLargeRadish posted:I can't help but agree with this, they are just leaving you alone in the cold here, if you aren't already start sending out those resumes. Not the people at my company, our customers. I stand in front of customers all day and they are all high-ups for some of the biggest companies and government agencies in the world. I can't name names, but the person who did this before me left for a contracting position through those same contacts and is making $350k / year. I have people regularly asking me if I'd be interested in working for them; I just haven't had the right opportunity come my way yet.
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Mar 16, 2018 20:37
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Kill Hour, there's a reason that 'fishmech' is a verb. You're being fishmeched. You have your fix, just get out of here.
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Mar 16, 2018 20:53
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He was told what the fix was long ago, he just refuses to do it.
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Mar 16, 2018 20:56
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xamphear posted:Kill Hour, there's a reason that 'fishmech' is a verb. You're being fishmeched. You have your fix, just get out of here.
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Mar 16, 2018 22:08
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KillHour posted:
Weird, the FCU does not run on mine. It should work.
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Mar 16, 2018 23:30
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This is sick if it works. Thank you.'
fishmech posted:He was told what the fix was long ago, he just refuses to do it. If you actually read KillHour's posts you would have noticed that he already implemented a fix, he's mentioned this multiple times, including in posts that you quoted.
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Mar 16, 2018 23:56
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If the fix is LTSB, isn’t that a lot of work to clean install an OS, add LOB software, etc.? Relative to the things that one has no time at all for already, as stated, that is. “Go back and get it done right (paraphrased from several suggestions)” was pissed on pretty quick, but now a spin on that is suddenly one’s deus ex machina? For “Just want a simple fix,” one sure wobbles real far back and forth on this. Weird, man. Your lifestyle may be affecting one’s capability for rational though, I fear.
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Mar 17, 2018 02:06
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Tapedump posted:If the fix is LTSB, isn’t that a lot of work to clean install an OS, add LOB software, etc.? No it's actually pretty easy to start from a scratch OS because part of the demo/class is the installation. I just have to install a couple prerequisites (.net frameworks) and map the network share. All of the network stuff is handled by DHCP and DNS - the VMs register their host name with the DNS server. There's more to it than that, but not a lot and nothing particularly terrible. It's also just one master template that gets cloned 13 times so I'm not doing a lot of duplicate work. I just need to wait until the next time I have a week at home and spend a day or 2 on it and then another day to do a dry run and make sure everything still works and the problem doesn't come back. The problem isn't rolling back to a fresh VM, it's making sure the update doesn't happen during a class/demo because then I have to start from the beginning or load a preinstalled snapshot, which takes like an 30 mins to do on all 13 environments and makes me look unprepared. I'm not joking when I say I tried rolling back to earlier images. I even tried reinstalling a vanilla Windows 10 install from ISO and it still did the install when I left it overnight with updates disabled in GPO.  The other option is to use WSUS and put everything on a domain, which I realize is probably the better way to go but that would require changing a lot more stuff and would take me a good 2-3 weeks to figure everything out and run testing to make sure it all works. It also changes the flow of class because installing on a domain is a different process so there is documentation to rewrite and blah blah blah.... Then there's the additional management overhead of extra VMs and it's just more than I want to take on right now. I might be able to schedule something like that for 3-6 months from now (and probably will, I've been meaning to look into it), but it's not a quick fix for sure. As I said before, I was just looking for a hack to keep things stable until I could go back and do it 'right.' Even if/when I end up on a domain, I'll probably keep it on LTS because it's actually pretty important that things like the OS interface don't change since the class is supposed to stay the same for 2 years until it's refreshed. I'm not against updates. I think it's a good thing that home machines update automatically so that Grandma doesn't have a machine full of spyware. I just need to be able to control when they happen because I don't have time to keep everything up to date and tested with the latest patches. Actually performing these things is a full time job; all the maintenance stuff I have to do is on top of that. KillHour fucked around with this message at 02:38 on Mar 17, 2018 |
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Mar 17, 2018 02:25
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wolrah posted:There is a reason fishmech is a verb, but this is not a case of that. fishmech is on the right side here.
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Mar 17, 2018 02:43
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I'm pretty sure there is some room between "Microsoft shouldn't make it easy for users to disable updates" and "you are literally an antivaxxer if you want Windows not to restart for updates while you're demoing software."
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Mar 17, 2018 02:49
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Not that it matters, but I think I figured out why my VMs were updating even though I did properly roll back to a known clean image, updates disabled in GPO, with Microsoft's websites blocked. They were on the same network as my home workstation which has the update on it, and the "upload to other computers on your LAN with P2P" setting was enabled. 
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Mar 17, 2018 02:53
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Nobody (well, only the fringiest of cases) would be trying to disable updates if there was literally any wiggle room between "tear out the update service with a crowbar/block its IPs at the firewall level" nuclear option type poo poo and "updates restart your computer at random without permission". Windows 7 lets you be prompted to install and you can do it at a time that actually works. This was a pretty good setup.
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Mar 17, 2018 02:54
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OS as a service is a stupid idea and in 2 years, MS will make us all buy a Windows subscription if we want network connectivity outside of the Windows app store just like the XBOX. And if you're on Windows 10 now, you literally will not have an option to avoid it.
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Mar 17, 2018 02:56
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mystes posted:"you are literally an antivaxxer if you want Windows not to restart for updates while you're demoing software."
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Mar 17, 2018 03:04
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Thought experiment: What if Microsoft started selling Windows as a service with a monthly fee, and gave a discount if your system is at the highest patch level. Would that be enough to convince people to keep up to date? Let's assume for this scenario that such a move somehow doesn't cost them tons of customers or turn into a technical train-wreck.
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Mar 17, 2018 03:15
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Hungry Computer posted:Thought experiment: What if Microsoft started selling Windows as a service with a monthly fee, and gave a discount if your system is at the highest patch level. Would that be enough to convince people to keep up to date? Nah, for maximum evil they make all updates micro-transactions that both auto download and automatically charge your credit card, however you can get the updates for free if you buy a 100 key enterprise pack.
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Mar 17, 2018 03:23
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KillHour posted:OS as a service is a stupid idea and in 2 years, MS will make us all buy a Windows subscription if we want network connectivity outside of the Windows app store just like the XBOX. And if you're on Windows 10 now, you literally will not have an option to avoid it. That's not how any of the Xbox systems work in the first place. Javid posted:Nobody (well, only the fringiest of cases) would be trying to disable updates if there was literally any wiggle room between "tear out the update service with a crowbar/block its IPs at the firewall level" nuclear option type poo poo and "updates restart your computer at random without permission". This is entirely false: shitloads of previous Windows systems were sitting around with updates disabled before, everyone knows this. That's the entire reason Microsoft finally did what they should have done a long time ago.
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Mar 17, 2018 03:34
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The problem is the major version upgrades never work consistently. Of around 100 systems we have at work like 87 of them went from 1511 to 1709 without issue and the others had various weird issues ranging from broken Start menu/Settings to awful battery life to completely trashed user profiles
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Mar 17, 2018 03:54
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Wouldn't it have been reasonable for MS to start by simply outright removing the "never" option that 7 and 8/8.1 had, instead of... well, what we've got now. If KillHour had the option of "download but let me choose when to install," the worst he'd have to deal with would be the nag notifications in the tray, which'd be pretty trivial compared to the shitshow he's been put through, and we wouldn't be having this conversation.
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Mar 17, 2018 03:58
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KillHour posted:OS as a service is a stupid idea and in 2 years, MS will make us all buy a Windows subscription if we want network connectivity outside of the Windows app store just like the XBOX. And if you're on Windows 10 now, you literally will not have an option to avoid it. Eh, bullshit. People have been saying this since at least Windows XP and it ain’t happened yet. I’m sure Microsoft would love to see it, but even Redmond knows it would be an utter disaster for the company.
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Mar 17, 2018 05:43
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OSes will become a service. That much is inevitable but I’m sure typical brick and mortar OSes will still exist.
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Mar 17, 2018 05:52
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JnnyThndrs posted:Eh, bullshit. People have been saying this since at least Windows XP and it ain’t happened yet. I’m sure Microsoft would love to see it, but even Redmond knows it would be an utter disaster for the company. We just had 10 pages of argument over MS making windows a subscription service. It is one right now. No, you cannot opt out. Of course you like it, what kind of a degenerate low life pirate wouldn't like that.
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Mar 17, 2018 06:00
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I hope they do make it a full subscription service, and it totally fails.
GRINDCORE MEGGIDO fucked around with this message at 07:00 on Mar 17, 2018 |
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Mar 17, 2018 06:03
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mystes posted:I'm pretty sure there is some room between "Microsoft shouldn't make it easy for users to disable updates" and "you are literally an antivaxxer if you want Windows not to restart for updates while you're demoing software." You would think that, wouldn't you.
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Mar 17, 2018 08:14
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Someone should tell Microsoft no means no. KillHour I do sympathize with you cause I’ve been there before where I just needed poo poo to work right now but that job sounds horrible in so many ways. You’re essentially your own IT department, sales, research and development (of educational materials), and so on, and it doesn’t sound like the company values that at all because they don’t give you the support you need to improve. Plus all the traveling. Seriously I would ask yourself if this is really worth the stress and associated health problems from stress and the loss of so much personal time. If you really do have contacts that have offered you a job I would seriously consider them with the #1 question being “is this less stressful.” Boris Galerkin fucked around with this message at 08:19 on Mar 17, 2018 |
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Mar 17, 2018 08:14
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Hungry Computer posted:Thought experiment: What if Microsoft started selling Windows as a service with a monthly fee, and gave a discount if your system is at the highest patch level. Would that be enough to convince people to keep up to date? I don't mind patching my computer if the quality of the patches is good, since Windows 10 the quality of the stuff coming out of Redmond has taken a nosedive, making this the first OS since XP where I don't have Windows Update enabled.
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Mar 17, 2018 08:17
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My favorite part of 10 is that it has no features to recommend it over 7, the only reason I upgraded is because MS isn't going to support 7 in the future. On top of that 10 has caused me more problems in a couple weeks than 7 did in years of use, almost every issue I encountered in 7 had a solution or workaround, in 10 the answer to problems is either nothing because there is no solution or that your problem is actually a "feature" that MS won't let you turn off. Going from 7 to 10 felt like going backwards. I'd especially like to thank MS for repeatedly installing a driver that caused PFN_LIST_CORRUPT BSODs over the working and more recent driver I had installed, in conclusion:  MS.
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Mar 17, 2018 08:37
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AVeryLargeRadish posted:I'd especially like to thank MS for repeatedly installing a driver that caused PFN_LIST_CORRUPT BSODs over the working and more recent driver I had installed, in conclusion: I thank MS for forcing a broken audio driver on my old laptop so it has no sound output.
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Mar 17, 2018 08:42
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Mr Shiny Pants posted:I don't mind patching my computer if the quality of the patches is good, since Windows 10 the quality of the stuff coming out of Redmond has taken a nosedive I don't agree with your sentiment of having Windows Update turned off entirely but since they killed off their old Q/A process staff there has definitely been a decline in patch quality. I've had 2 different updates render one or more of my Windows machines unbootable and numerous rollbacks. I finally gave up awhile ago and now the whole thing is imaged on an ESXi box. I just do snapshots once a day and if there's a problem I roll back.
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Mar 17, 2018 13:34
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The Gunslinger posted:I don't agree with your sentiment of having Windows Update turned off entirely but since they killed off their old Q/A process staff there has definitely been a decline in patch quality. I've had 2 different updates render one or more of my Windows machines unbootable and numerous rollbacks. Me neither, but I don't run my box on ESXi, so I do a Macrium backup once in awhile and patch all the stuff. I don't want it rebooting when it thinks it needs to, leaving me with a backup from a couple of weeks/months old. But that is soon to change, I have an installation running on KVM now, so with a little luck I won't need my bare metal installation anymore.
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Mar 17, 2018 13:48
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