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Panzeh posted:The goal of the Ottomans is Kurdish genocide, my man. It's probably not genocide. They'd probably be happy enough with Kurds living in the region so long as whoever is running it isn't Kurdish and would suppress any Kurdish armed groups. They'll try to either prop up an Arab government with similar goals to their own or, as the previous poster said, push the Kurds out of the area.
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Mar 18, 2018 00:55
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Turkey will definately seek to settle its pet jihadis in Afrin and escalating this poo poo into another great war is what they'll succeed in trying that.
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Mar 18, 2018 01:17
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IS counteroffensive in DeZ may have captured T2 station https://twitter.com/Elly_Ammar/status/975099052206575616?s=20
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Mar 18, 2018 03:13
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So, uh, they stopped paying attention to IS and got surprise attacked again?
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Mar 18, 2018 04:28
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IS also launched a raid out of Yarmouk against government forces.
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Mar 18, 2018 06:55
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Darkman Fanpage posted:IS also launched a raid out of Yarmouk against government forces. Yes, and it appears they were caught utterly unprepared for it again. If only ISIS got as much attention from Assad's ISIS hunters as random Kurdish bases.
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Mar 18, 2018 08:04
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Well ISIS isn’t holding anything of value and is a greatly diminished threat.
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Mar 18, 2018 08:13
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lollontee posted:Turkey will definately seek to settle its pet jihadis in Afrin and escalating this poo poo into another great war is what they'll succeed in trying that. Hey man, Turkey just needs its Lebensraum.
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Mar 18, 2018 09:12
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So about that last great climatic battle for Afrin... https://twitter.com/QalaatAlMudiq/status/975300976985899008
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Mar 18, 2018 10:25
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Welp, gently caress me raw and call me an omelet. The siege did go a bit different, that’s for sure. lollontee fucked around with this message at 12:21 on Mar 18, 2018 |
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Mar 18, 2018 12:16
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No friends but the mountains
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Mar 18, 2018 12:23
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I'm glad they were smart enough to cut their losses and run, but holy poo poo was this operation a cake walk for Turkey.
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Mar 18, 2018 12:45
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Was it though? Two months to beat up a bunch of farmers with ak’s and a bad attitude, while employing the entire might of Turkey’s armored corps and air force doesn’t isn’t very impressive.
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Mar 18, 2018 13:03
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lollontee posted:Was it though? Two months to beat up a bunch of farmers with ak’s and a bad attitude, while employing the entire might of Turkey’s armored corps and air force doesn’t isn’t very impressive. This is some pretty massive goalpost shifting. Even people cheering Turkey on didn't expect the operation to be wrapping up this fast. Yeah, superior firepower tends to win the day, but Turkey still gets credit for using it effectively (even if I wish they hadn't).
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Mar 18, 2018 13:24
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lollontee posted:farmers with ak’s and a bad attitude Also describes the Taliban, and yet here we are, still losing the war in Afghanistan.
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Mar 18, 2018 13:45
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Sinteres posted:This is some pretty massive goalpost shifting. Even people cheering Turkey on didn't expect the operation to be wrapping up this fast. Yeah, superior firepower tends to win the day, but Turkey still gets credit for using it effectively (even if I wish they hadn't). I didn't know I was trying to score a goal? Um, what was the goalpost I shifted? I'm just saying that considering the opposition, taking two months to conquer Afrin is not sign to me that the turkish army can take on Rojava. And yes, I was indeed completely mistaken in my belief that YPG would put up a fight in Afrin city. I got much egg on my face you could roll me up amd call me an egg burrito. svenkatesh posted:Also describes the Taliban, and yet here we are, still losing the war in Afghanistan. I thought wars were supposed to end when the attacker declares victiry. Wekl, the kurds are more honourable than those pashtun sneaks
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Mar 18, 2018 14:54
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Darkman Fanpage posted:Well ISIS isn’t holding anything of value and is a greatly diminished threat. They briefly held an SAA base and killed a bunch of troops while taking it. Overall they are a diminishing threat - because other groups are actually fighting them, or at least keeping tabs on their activity to prevent things like this. I do agree that the SAA views the Syrians living in most of Syria as having no value, though.
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Mar 18, 2018 15:00
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lollontee posted:I didn't know I was trying to score a goal? Um, what was the goalpost I shifted? I'm just saying that considering the opposition, taking two months to conquer Afrin is not sign to me that the turkish army can take on Rojava. I didn't mean that to come across as a hostile comment; what I mean by goalpost shifting is that anyone would have called this a huge win for Turkey two months ago, whereas now the standard is 'big deal, they're a real army fighting some scrub militia guys.' It's true, but to some extent that perception of both sides is colored by how they peformed over the last month or two. I always thought Turkey was going to win, and that people were overestimating the YPG going into this, but even with that mindset I think I underestimated Turkey and overestimated the YPG. Of course that doesn't mean Turkey's ready to take on the US and win, but if the US withdraws its support from the YPG in Rojava at some point, I don't see any reason why this couldn't be repeated there. I'm inclined to think Assad would fare better against the YPG now than a lot of us thought he would a few months ago too, though not as well as Turkey has obviously. That said, at some point Rojava would be a harder fight than Afrin if for no other reason than because the YPG would run out of places to run, so they'd have to stand and fight like they did in Kobane.
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Mar 18, 2018 15:12
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https://twitter.com/EgyIndependent/status/975373137352232960?s=19
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Mar 18, 2018 15:18
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svenkatesh posted:Also describes the Taliban, and yet here we are, still losing the war in Afghanistan. The Talibans are backed by Pakistan and the USA are suffering from war weariness after 15 years of foreverwar there. The Afrin Kurds are backed by no one and Turkey is enjoying a morale boost from a successful blitzkrieg.
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Mar 18, 2018 15:47
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The Kurds might have tried an Aleppo style publicity campaign to elicit western sympathy but inconveniently for that narrative the SAA were at the same time reducing East Ghouta which was controlled by the same Al Qaedas who the Kurds were fighting, so that was a little too complicated to explain in a single tweet. https://twitter.com/MIG29_/status/975372924747239424
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Mar 18, 2018 15:53
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Sisi is still in Egypt, then.
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Mar 18, 2018 16:18
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Throatwarbler posted:The Kurds might have tried an Aleppo style publicity campaign to elicit western sympathy but inconveniently for that narrative the SAA were at the same time reducing East Ghouta which was controlled by the same Al Qaedas who the Kurds were fighting, so that was a little too complicated to explain in a single tweet. Civilian casualties were also just very low. Some Europeans complained a bit, but as far as illegal wars go it was about as clean as could be. Yeah, the YPG probably could have drawn Turkey into killing more civilians by making a stand in Afrin city, but by then it would be too late to matter anyway, and would just be bad for everyone. It's not like the publicity campaign saved Aleppo either, or is saving Eastern Ghouta. That's crazy.
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Mar 18, 2018 17:15
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It’s over Afrin has been taken:- https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/...8081430817.html Don’t you guys love it when i keep being proven right over and over? I kept telling you guys that the Kurds narrow ethnic nationalism will end up like this, I kept telling you that them standing neutral and greedily thinking that they can go it alone while Assad kills off his country will end up like this, I kept pointing out that the second America lifts its Air Force from protecting the Kurds they’re gonna be royally hosed. And over and over you guys kept squealing and squaking gently caress the Syrian people, gently caress the revolution gently caress democracy, alqaeda alqaeda rojava rojava, etc. and now look where that’s gotten them. The Kurdish national project is finished on both Iraq AND in Syria, not only did the Syrian people lose everything, the Kurds lost everything as well. Hope you guys are happy. I will keep saying this over and over until I’m blue in the face, the freedom one exclusive group of people cannot be attained until freedom is gained for all people. Any change Forward towards has be a project that is arm-locked between all ethnic, National and sectarian groups, that’s the only way people like the Kurds will get their autonomy and their freedom is through helping their neighbors get freedom as well so that a deal can be reached. In the end, the House was divided, the Kurds decided that negatively harm the rebels by winning the north for Assad, and exclusively marketing themselves to foreign backers and not tying their fates to the fate of the Syrian people, that allowed fascism to win, both Assad fascism, Iranian fascism and Turkish authoritarian expansionism won. Oh well. Al-Saqr fucked around with this message at 17:46 on Mar 18, 2018 |
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Mar 18, 2018 17:42
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The YPG weren't really given much choice by the Arab opposition groups, who preemptively shot down any outline for a future Syria that might give Rojava autonomy. Compromise is a two way street. As it turns out, Turkey had leaned on the FSA from the very beginning to make sure they screwed Kurdish nationalists. The FSA failed almost as badly to uphold the ideal that "the freedom one exclusive group of people cannot be attained until freedom is gained for all people."Saladin Rising posted:Sinteres explained it pretty well, and also added a point I hadn't considered: I wanted to prompt some reflection on this subject because I think it's easy in these cases to let ourselves believe something that we want to be true or we think should be true. I still remember how people were saying once ISIS had to fight the peshmerga that then they would be in trouble. Judging something like the quality soldiers on the ground is very hard from a distance, and if we're going to try and make inference we should be careful that we have good reasoning.
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Mar 18, 2018 18:08
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Throatwarbler posted:The Kurds might have tried an Aleppo style publicity campaign to elicit western sympathy but inconveniently for that narrative the SAA were at the same time reducing East Ghouta which was controlled by the same Al Qaedas who the Kurds were fighting, so that was a little too complicated to explain in a single tweet. This is actually the first time in the entire conflict I can remember seeing a picture of Assad near anything bombed out.
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Mar 18, 2018 18:09
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Al-Saqr posted:It’s over Afrin has been taken:- What exactly could the Kurds have done differently? I’m sincerely asking. How could they have made their impossible problem any less impossible?
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Mar 18, 2018 18:48
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Snipee posted:What exactly could the Kurds have done differently? I’m sincerely asking. How could they have made their impossible problem any less impossible? While I don't agree with all of Al Saqr's post (basically for the same reason Squalid gave), I do think the YPG kind of picked the worst of both worlds by operating under an alliance of convenience with Assad and Russia against mutual enemies for years and then deciding they'd rather let Turkey conquer them than work out a negotiated surrender to Assad, though it's possible the US threatened to withdraw their support for Rojava if they did that. Assad's objectively worse than Erdogan overall, but when it comes to Kurds specifically, they might have been better off with Assad. Dr Kool-AIDS fucked around with this message at 19:08 on Mar 18, 2018 |
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Mar 18, 2018 19:05
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Snipee posted:What exactly could the Kurds have done differently? I’m sincerely asking. How could they have made their impossible problem any less impossible? They could have joined forces with the people who hate them so that "democratic confederalism" would have been replaced by shariah law, they wouldn't have gotten any help against Daesh in Kobane, and today the few remnants of them who wouldn't have been beheaded by the Daesh jihadists or betrayed and beheaded by the Al Qaeda jihadists would get to be slaughtered by Syria, Russia, and Iran instead of by Turkey.
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Mar 18, 2018 19:06
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Snipee posted:What exactly could the Kurds have done differently? I’m sincerely asking. How could they have made their impossible problem any less impossible? I'll get back to you later on this. Cat Mattress posted:They could have joined forces with the people who hate them so that "democratic confederalism" would have been replaced by shariah law, they wouldn't have gotten any help against Daesh in Kobane, and today the few remnants of them who wouldn't have been beheaded by the Daesh jihadists or betrayed and beheaded by the Al Qaeda jihadists would get to be slaughtered by Syria, Russia, and Iran instead of by Turkey. Youre a loving idiot. Nobody in the Syrian Revolution hated them until they started actively helping assad and being negative by allowing assad to operate in their territory to hunt down and wipe out all opposition before the islamists were the only ones left alive and the kurdish political parties helped Assad Decisively win Aleppo. loving moron. Sinteres posted:While I don't agree with all of Al Saqr's post (basically for the same reason Squalid gave), I do think the YPG kind of picked the worst of both worlds by operating under an alliance of convenience with Assad and Russia against mutual enemies for years and then deciding they'd rather let Turkey conquer them than work out a negotiated surrender to Assad, though it's possible the US threatened to withdraw their support for Rojava if they did that. Lol good to know that all of my suspicions about you and my arguments on how the kurdish political parties helped gently caress the syrian revolution were absolutely correct and at the end of the day you wanted Assad to win, what a moral hero you are. loving hypocrite. Them Helping assad to win is what opened the door for Erdogan. So in the end your larger goal of destroying the syrian revolution was worth it and who the gently caress cares if the Kurds get hosed in the process? assad is better off for them huh? Well guess what, you win, they helped assad win. fascism won and the kurds got hosed, so I guess you're real glad about the 'better off' option. Al-Saqr fucked around with this message at 19:18 on Mar 18, 2018 |
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Mar 18, 2018 19:12
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Al-Saqr posted:Lol good to know that all of my suspicions about you and my arguments on how the kurdish political parties helped gently caress the syrian revolution were absolutely correct and at the end of the day you wanted Assad to win, what a moral hero you are. loving hypocrite. Them Helping assad to win is what opened the door for Erdogan. So in the end your larger goal of destroying the syrian revolution was worth it and who the gently caress cares if the Kurds get hosed in the process? assad is better off for them huh? Well guess what, you win, they helped assad win. fascism won and the kurds got hosed, so I guess you're real glad about the 'better off' option. You're the hypocrite gloating about how you were right that free people are now oppressed because they didn't choose to back the movement for freedom that was hijacked by monsters years ago. I don't think the Kurds ever had a chance for freedom, so picking the lesser of two evils was all that was available to them. Instead, they dithered and tried to have it both ways and lost a big chunk of territory, though Rojava's still a going concern for now. We both know the Afrin Kurds weren't strong enough to swing the outcome of the war either way, and Erdogan wasn't going to do poo poo to save Aleppo even if the corridor had remained open (which we know because it was always open through Idlib, which his forces now quasi-occupy), so you just think the Kurds should have subjected themselves to horrific bombardment on behalf of people who would have ended up selling them out to Turkey anyway.
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Mar 18, 2018 19:24
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Al-saqr my man, if I didn't know you I'd say you were gloating a bit.
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Mar 18, 2018 19:49
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lollontee posted:Al-saqr my man, if I didn't know you I'd say you were gloating a bit. I'm not gloating. nobody won. we're all hosed. I'm Hissing through my teeth that my predictions came true, I want the kurds to be as free as everyone else, but it's the morons who kept insisting that the guy who is the source of the entire problem (assad) is somehow preferable and that the YPG was some holy group that every other group in Syria could get hosed for all they care was really amazing to see, in the end the result I expected came true. I'm not happy about fascism winning, it's just a goddamn shame. and now those same people are outright arguing that the kurds should lay down their arms and surrender to the child gassing animal fascist monster, an option that they refuse to even entertain when it comes to any other side is loving hilarious and completely underlines who's side they derive their moral starting point from and who's side they prefer to win in the first place. Al-Saqr fucked around with this message at 20:05 on Mar 18, 2018 |
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Mar 18, 2018 20:01
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Here's a thought experiment: you're the leader of a jihadist group in the FSA. You are backed by Turkey, but they've been very clear that they won't support you anymore if you ever ally with the abhorred Kurds. Other groups in the FSA are talking about allying with the YPG. What do you do?
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Mar 18, 2018 20:23
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Al-Saqr posted:I'm not gloating. nobody won. we're all hosed. I'm Hissing through my teeth that my predictions came true, I want the kurds to be as free as everyone else, but it's the morons who kept insisting that the guy who is the source of the entire problem (assad) is somehow preferable Preferable to what? You keep telling us that the Kurds are the ones at fault and that they’re the ones who started this war, and I keep asking you time and time again what possible reason you could have for thinking so. And I never hear what it was exactly that the PYD did that makes all these attacks on their territory their fault. You refer to PYD working with Assad about in some extremely oblique way (not defending some people i guess???), what 6 years ago? Yeah, I’m loving sure that’s why the TFSA chose to attack Afrin. That is definately what is going on there in Afrin where hundreds of opposition members were butchered by the PYD? Or something? Anything? What did the Afrin Kurds do to these TFSA people exactly? You keep saying that it was PYD who spurned all attempts to incorporate them into the wider opposition and chose to side with Assad, yet their every interaction with the opposition is PYD being attacked by the TFSA. In Aleppo, TFSA negotiation with the PYD for passage amounted to artillery barrages. That’s not really how most people ask for help is all. I don’t think the people now occupying Afrin ever had their best interests in mind. As evidenced by the fact that they keep attacking YPG/SDF territory with fury never unleashed on Assad you insist the Kurds chose to ally with. As evidenced by the massive amounts of help he gave to the Kurds in Afrin. Dude, this doesn’t make any loving sense. You can’t both blame the PYD for allying with Assad and then laugh at them for not allying with Assad (what was that about surrender). e: My point is that your accusation that the PYD spurned TFSA advances for an alliance is untrue, and in fact the truth is the opposite. The TFSA chose Erdogan and his nationalist islamism, the TFSA chose to make PYD and the SDF their enemies to get his support. The TFSA and their decision to gently caress the Kurds in favour of Erdogan is in fact the reason why the Opposition fell apart. lollontee fucked around with this message at 20:38 on Mar 18, 2018 |
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Mar 18, 2018 20:27
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Cat Mattress posted:Here's a thought experiment: you're the leader of a jihadist group in the FSA. You are backed by Turkey, but they've been very clear that they won't support you anymore if you ever ally with the abhorred Kurds. Other groups in the FSA are talking about allying with the YPG. What do you do? In the current situation it depends on where you are. FSA/Kurdish groups in the Syrian East have an avenue of retreat into Iraq if Assad/Turkey roll in. They can afford to choose who they think is less bad. In the Western areas not so much, Turkey is the only place to go (aside from hastily dug trenches outside the death camps) and also the only one who is going to provide aid.
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Mar 18, 2018 20:33
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lollontee posted:Preferable to what? You keep telling us that the Kurds are the ones at fault and that they’re the ones who started this war, and I keep asking you time and time again what possible reason you could have for thinking so. And I never hear what it was exactly that the PYD did that makes all these attacks on their territory their fault. We're perfectly capable of reading PKK press releases on our own, thank you. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Mar 18, 2018 20:45
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Volkerball posted:We're perfectly capable of reading PKK press releases on our own, thank you. The cool thing about stanning for a moderate rebel faction that doesn't exist is that you never have to defend anything. For someone who wanted the US to intervene for years, you sure have a lot of contempt for the group that chose to work with the US in liberating territory from ISIS and keeping it free from the regime. Edit: I'm sure Iraq is going to be thrilled to see Turkish soldiers saying they're going to capture Kirkuk and Mosul next. https://twitter.com/abdbozkurt/status/975423372585730048 Beats what the TFSA are up to though: https://twitter.com/MHJournalist/status/975436163984035840 Dr Kool-AIDS fucked around with this message at 21:37 on Mar 18, 2018 |
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Mar 18, 2018 21:21
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Sinteres posted:The cool thing about stanning for a moderate rebel faction that doesn't exist is that you never have to defend anything. For someone who wanted the US to intervene for years, you sure have a lot of contempt for the group that chose to work with the US in liberating territory from ISIS and keeping it free from the regime. I'm not wasting my time with somebody who claims every interaction the PYD have had with Arabs is them getting bombed. That's pure nonsense on its face, and if he didn't stop to question it before he posted it, it's obvious he hasn't reasoned his way into his position, so reason won't change his mind. Or yours.
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Mar 18, 2018 21:39
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Half the SDF is Arabic you disingenious twat.
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Mar 18, 2018 21:41
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