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smug n stuff posted:Mormon chat has summoned me to post itt again yay I have the solution. We shall all refer to ourselves and others as "Christians" with extremely exaggerated air quotes. Next problem before the SA synod, please.
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Mar 18, 2018 21:26
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Pellisworth posted:I think I said something similar when this last came up, but it's fair to say both that Mormonism is outside of little-o orthodox Christianity and also that it's not our place to say who is and isn't Christian. buddy spend some time in calvinist facebook groups whenever martin luther king day rolls around
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Mar 18, 2018 22:24
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The Phlegmatist posted:buddy spend some time in calvinist facebook groups whenever martin luther king day rolls around I just looked at Reformed Memes Daily 
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Mar 18, 2018 22:53
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Who do far-right American Catholics hate more? Martin Luther or Martin Luther King?
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Mar 18, 2018 22:57
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https://twitter.com/hotoynoodle/status/975435504945688576
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Mar 18, 2018 23:25
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Senju Kannon posted:you know there’s a priest shortage, right? it’s been going on for decades and is unlikely to let up anytime soon
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Mar 19, 2018 00:07
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Even now it's pretty evident that deacons are going to play bigger and bigger part in ecclesial life. Maybe they'll bring back Catholic subdeacons, too.
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Mar 19, 2018 00:28
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that's more in line with the early church where people used to skip town in order to avoid being ordained (and also having people forcibly march you up to the bishop is still part of the Divine Liturgy) reducing the educational requirements in seminary would likely go a long way in fixing the Catholic vocation crisis. they don't make them learn Latin anymore but they do make them study Nietzsche for some reason
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Mar 19, 2018 00:28
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i dunno as a published theologian i have never thought “man these priests are so well educated” or “these priests should have less education”
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Mar 19, 2018 00:42
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also; confirmation is the appendix of sacraments. change my mind
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Mar 19, 2018 00:43
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The Phlegmatist posted:that's more in line with the early church where people used to skip town in order to avoid being ordained (and also having people forcibly march you up to the bishop is still part of the Divine Liturgy) Oh boy, is it a bad idea. This is what happened in Russia, because, you know, they needed a huge amount of priests extremely fast in the 90s, and because of that Russian clergy now has a noticeable anti-intellectual streak to it. Also worth noting that when you lower educational requirements for students, you also lower them for professors, and every new generation of priests is going to be less and less educated.
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Mar 19, 2018 00:48
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Senju Kannon posted:i dunno as a published theologian i have never thought “man these priests are so well educated” or “these priests should have less education” higher education turns a moron into a well-educated moron try conversing with van tillians sometime
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Mar 19, 2018 01:22
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The Phlegmatist posted:e: oh there's also no confession times during Holy Week period so hope you remain in a state of grace all week leading up to Easter! That is the least pastoral thing I have ever heard.
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Mar 19, 2018 01:33
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I firmly believe that if a diocese/parish doesn’t do their absolute best to make confession available they don’t actually believe in the Church’s teaching on sin and forgiveness. Yes, the only requirement for forgiveness is true contrition, but only confession is the infallible act of contrition, and only confession reconciles us to the sacramental life, a life which we should be living in earnest.
Thirteen Orphans fucked around with this message at 02:49 on Mar 19, 2018 |
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Mar 19, 2018 02:12
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Pellisworth posted:I think I said something similar when this last came up, but it's fair to say both that Mormonism is outside of little-o orthodox Christianity There is no little o, there is only Orthodox Christianity and The Noobz.
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Mar 19, 2018 03:19
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even my namesake was all "whoa check out those guys over there still keeping it real"
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Mar 19, 2018 04:27
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Rodrigo Diaz posted:There is no little o, there is only Orthodox Christianity and The Noobz. splitters
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Mar 19, 2018 04:31
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Lutha Mahtin posted:even my namesake was all "whoa check out those guys over there still keeping it real" he sent letters to the Orthodox saying "hey I think we might have a lot in common" to which the Orthodox responded "lol naw"
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Mar 19, 2018 04:34
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Thirteen Orphans posted:Me, winking at the 23 sui iuris Churches, *I got you fam* Can someone explain the deal with all the Catholic churches more clearly? As Catholic I'm confused and reading wiki didn't help. Post charts.
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Mar 19, 2018 08:05
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It was like this close that Confession would have remained a Sacrament for the Lutherans. The lack of physical matter was the deal breaker eventually but Luther really heartily recommended Confession to everyone. We've come pretty far from that since then. I've never Confessed anything privately. The idea of hearing the absolution for you personally is intriguing but it's just... a scary idea to confess privately. Some people probably do it sometimes but I don't actually know if any do.
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Mar 19, 2018 08:12
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On the subject of confessions: It seems a bit weird to keep short hours in the middle of the workday to take confession, even with a priest shortage. Are there no liturgical exemptions that allow laypeople to hear confession from one another?
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Mar 19, 2018 12:58
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Tias posted:Are there no liturgical exemptions that allow laypeople to hear confession from one another? Only a priest or bishop can validly hear confessions. Lay people are ontologically incapable of acting “in persona Christi” a requirement for absolving sins. We believe that ordination changes the character of the soul which endows it with the ability to absolve sins and consecrate the Eucharist.
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Mar 19, 2018 13:39
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Tias posted:.Are there no liturgical exemptions that allow laypeople to hear confession from one another? It used to be a thing, but I'm pretty sure it stopped being OK during the Counter Reformation.
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Mar 19, 2018 13:45
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Interestingly enough, I'm a alcoholic (no, you could tell pretty easily, but peep the following) and the 5th step of Alcoholics Anonymous is a confession: We admitted to God, ourselves and another person the exact nature of our wrongs. When performing it, we explain to the other person( usually the sponsor) the things about other people that make us angry or fearful, with the implicit understanding that our higher powers hears as well. It doesn't even have to be a sponsor, it can be a trusted friends.
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Mar 19, 2018 14:00
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Edit: Nevermind, pointless Protestant rant deleted, have a bird. https://i.imgur.com/edfT7MQ.mp4 Cythereal fucked around with this message at 14:35 on Mar 19, 2018 |
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Mar 19, 2018 14:19
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I know in the Episcopal Church you can confess to anybody, but only a priest can pronounce the absolution. However, there's an absolution in the BCP liturgy regardless of what you do. Confession isn't essential there the way it is in Catholicism and Orthodoxy. In Orthodoxy, my understanding is that you can have a spiritual father or mother who isn't a priest with whom you can discuss your sins and other issues--usually a monk or a nun; you want somebody with a lot of experience and wisdom--but again, only a priest can perform the absolution (a priest-monk, on the other hand...). And not everybody's qualified to hear a confession. My understanding is that in Greece, priests need a special blessing from the bishop before they can hear confessions. There's always the risk that you'll get an overly strict monk or a priest who'll automatically give you the strictest penances without regard for your individual needs and struggles. Confession is often compared with a doctor's visit, and you need a doctor who's qualified, and who's going to treat you with kindness, compassion, expertise, and confidentiality.
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Mar 19, 2018 14:41
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Valiantman posted:It was like this close that Confession would have remained a Sacrament for the Lutherans. The lack of physical matter was the deal breaker eventually but Luther really heartily recommended Confession to everyone. The Anglican position is "all may, some should, none must." It's pretty common before confirmation, but otherwise rare except in high Anglo-Catholic parishes (some of which even have confessionals  ).
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Mar 19, 2018 14:47
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Keromaru5 posted:I know in the Episcopal Church you can confess to anybody, but only a priest can pronounce the absolution. However, there's an absolution in the BCP liturgy regardless of what you do. Confession isn't essential there the way it is in Catholicism and Orthodoxy. Interestingly some Catholic churches starting doing general absolution during Mass but Pope John Paul II immediately quashed that practice. It's sometimes done before First Holy Communion but this still technically isn't allowed.
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Mar 19, 2018 17:48
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Cythereal posted:Edit: Nevermind, pointless Protestant rant deleted, have a bird. A fine birb indeed, 10/10 would lob at mormons ( I realize our way of doing things can be upsetting to some liturgigal christians, and FWIW I didn't mean to upset anyone )
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Mar 19, 2018 17:53
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The Phlegmatist posted:Interestingly some Catholic churches starting doing general absolution during Mass but Pope John Paul II immediately quashed that practice.
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Mar 19, 2018 17:57
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How do you do morning/evening prayers? Haven't been to confession in the two years since my baptism, but I don't feel particularly guilty, and I don't feel like confessing, say, to fapping when I don't feel contrite.
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Mar 19, 2018 18:10
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Thirteen Orphans posted:I firmly believe that if a diocese/parish doesn’t do their absolute best to make confession available they don’t actually believe in the Church’s teaching on sin and forgiveness. Yes, the only requirement for forgiveness is true contrition, but only confession is the infallible act of contrition, and only confession reconciles us to the sacramental life, a life which we should be living in earnest. And to go back to this, yeah this has always bugged me. In RCIA we have a priest actually teach the catechumenate when we're discussing anything related to the sacraments. So he'll talk about the importance of confession and what it does and how you need to be in a state of grace to receive the Eucharist and finish by saying "well you need to go to confession at least once a year but more would be preferable, y'know, it's up to you." It's weird because people joining the Church should be encouraged to participate frequently in the sacramental life of the Church but the ton I get is basically "here's this thing most Catholics don't do and, for real, even we're bored of it."
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Mar 19, 2018 18:16
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JcDent posted:How do you do morning/evening prayers? Do you mean the Liturgy of the Hours? If so, Universalis is a great website and app that lays out the daily office without having to have any knowledge of the esoteric ribbon method with the books.
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Mar 19, 2018 18:30
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The Phlegmatist posted:And to go back to this, yeah this has always bugged me. In RCIA we have a priest actually teach the catechumenate when we're discussing anything related to the sacraments. So he'll talk about the importance of confession and what it does and how you need to be in a state of grace to receive the Eucharist and finish by saying "well you need to go to confession at least once a year but more would be preferable, y'know, it's up to you." It's weird because people joining the Church should be encouraged to participate frequently in the sacramental life of the Church but the ton I get is basically "here's this thing most Catholics don't do and, for real, even we're bored of it." If I royally gently caress up and sin gravely, even in my most destitute state, I get to confession as soon as I possibly can. God has blessed me with faith, and this faith includes faith in God’s law as it has come down through the Church. So when I sin gravely, I REALLY know better, and if I were to be lazy about confessing I have no doubt that damnation is a distinct possibility because God has granted me the knowledge to know better. God made it so clear that God wanted me to be Catholic and follow the Church that I know I will be held to an impossible standard, impossible without God’s infinite grace and mercy.
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Mar 19, 2018 18:42
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JcDent posted:How do you do morning/evening prayers? Book of Common Prayer when I feel industrious, an app or website that collates all the daily readings when I'm lazy (Forward Movement, Mission Saint Clare)
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Mar 19, 2018 18:55
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Xposting from Cold War thread:Dante80 posted:I don't like posting pics from my country's air-force that soon again, but yes, we are that stupid.
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Mar 19, 2018 19:04
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Keromaru5 posted:There's always the risk that you'll get an overly strict monk or a priest who'll automatically give you the strictest penances without regard for your individual needs and struggles
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Mar 19, 2018 19:10
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The Phlegmatist posted:Interestingly some Catholic churches starting doing general absolution during Mass but Pope John Paul II immediately quashed that practice. I counted one at least twice in the Tridentine Rite back when I was going...
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Mar 19, 2018 19:11
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JcDent posted:Xposting from Cold War thread: stupid? dude this loving rips
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Mar 19, 2018 19:12
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JcDent posted:Can someone explain the deal with all the Catholic churches more clearly? As Catholic I'm confused and reading wiki didn't help. Post charts. Basically, throughout its history the Roman Catholic Church was for the longest time in a situation of conflict/competition with its Eastern (today's Orthodox) brethren. When the Great Schism happened and Rome decided that it alone truly represented the Church of Christ, this eventually meant that it needed to prosetylise in the East as well. Over the centuries, these missionary efforts as well as a bunch of political hijinks and other accidents of history led to the creation of 23 "sui iuris" (i.e. relatively autonomous within the ecclesiastical hierarchy) Churches that continued/adopted the various eastern liturgies as well as those theological traditions that weren't in conflict with Catholic doctrine while affirming papal supremacy, too. The oldest sui iuris Church would be the Maronite Church which never formally severed ties with Rome and actively sought "reunification" during the Crusades; the youngest one is the Eritrean Catholic Church that was split off of the Ethiopian Catholic Church in 2015. All of them are relatively small, however, ranging from ~4.6 million members (Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church) to a mere 3,845 members (Albanian Greek Catholic Church). One of them (the Russian Greek Catholic Church) is an especially complicated case because in theory it's actually two sui iuris Churches in the form of exarchates, but they were pretty much eradicated during Communist rule in Russia and China and now only exist on paper. The approcimately 3,200 people who can be counted as members are served by a pretty wild bunch of Latin Rite priests who also celebrate in the Byzantine Rite and Russian Orthodox priests who decided that they liked the idea of a pope. They have no bishops of their own and apparently it's a bit Wild West out there with the priests celebrating in whatever rite and liturgy they like best and the connection to the Holy See being rather tenuous. All the other ones are properly working Churches of their own with hierarchy and institutions separate from the Latin Rite. I wanted to post a chart as well, but I didn't found any good ones, sorry 
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Mar 19, 2018 19:28
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