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Solice Kirsk posted:So Andrew was a crazy guy huh? He was...a bit of a character. Our friends' group gallows humor way of coping with the news was to assume it was a thunderdome style death match he didn't expect to lose and the killer afterward went on an inspired spree. He wouldn't have actually ever killed anyone and didn't deserve the end he got though, it was just a weird thing to be confronted with. 
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Mar 19, 2018 00:55
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I'm sure they laughed and laughed when they found out they were going to try and murder each other. Sorry about your buddy man.
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Mar 19, 2018 01:34
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Solice Kirsk posted:I'm sure they laughed and laughed when they found out they were going to try and murder each other. Sorry about your buddy man. reminds me of a joke. a trucker is driving along and sees a hitchhiker with his thumb out. the trucker stops and lets him in. "gee thanks mister" the hitchhiker says "most people are scared to pick up hitchhikers nowadays" "no problem" the trucker said "the chances of a serial killer picking up another serial killer are extremely low", as he exited the highway and turned onto a logging road
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Mar 19, 2018 01:39
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Solice Kirsk posted:Yeah, "guys got lost in the woods and died" is a lot more believable than "guys got chased through the woods by murderers, somehow got away, and then died from being lost in the woods." This is one that the more you dig into it, the less sense it makes. Allow me to explain the problems with there not being an outside person or persons involved. The first problem is why the car ended up where it did. They're 60 miles in the wrong direction from home in an area that none of them knew. They had maps and there was no evidence they were taken out. If we accept that they took a wrong turn and got lost, why wouldn't they take out the maps and try to figure out where they were? If we accept that they got there by being lost, the rest of the actions they took become even more inexplicable. The second is why they would leave the car in the first place. It was not stuck, had a quarter tank of gas, and started up immediately for the sheriff. They could easily have turned around on hitting snow and gone back the way they came or kept driving. If they were just lost, I cannot envision a scenario where they would leave the car. None of them even had jackets and it was a cold night. Even if we accept that the car had some mechanical issue that fixed itself before the sheriff hot wired it, and they decided to walk to help, the next problem becomes more inexplicable. The third is why they would run off into the woods instead of following the road a few miles back to where the guy in the stuck VW bug went. None of them knew the area or were at all dressed for the weather. It begs belief that they would look out into the forest and decide that their best chance lay in striking off into the woods of a national forest instead of following the road. The fourth is why they didn't at any point try to go back to the car. They went off into the woods and made it 20 miles away from their car to the trailer. Three of them died on the way there. There's no good reason to not go back once whatever made them take off into the woods in the first place has passed. Even if they were chased by a wild animal or otherwise temporarily forced to leave the road, what would cause them to strike out into wilderness? If they got lost and were trying to get back to the car, they should have been much closer to the car, not 15 miles (for the first bodies) or 20 miles (for the trailer) from it. The fifth and final is why when they went into the woods did they continue to go up in elevation. They were heading up a mountain when they left the car, and they continued to a higher elevation where they found the trailer. The natural inclination of people lost in the wilderness is to head down hill, but they ascended to a higher elevation until they died or reached the trailer. They didn't act like they were lost, they acted like they were being chased. The challenge with any and all of these is to explain why they would do any of these things at all, not just say "they made bad decisions" but what would possess anyone, mental faculties aside, from making any of those decisions. Three of the five had some kind of intellectual disabilities, one was described as "slow" because that's the 70s for you, and the last guy had schizophrenia which was being controlled with medication. Two of them were Army veterans. I have a hard time from reading what is available with understanding the level of disability that they each had, but nothing suggests that any of them were so impaired that if they got lost they'd be liable to wander into the woods and die. In most circumstances, when someone makes a bad decision, it's usually possible to piece together why they made that decision in that moment. The actions taken here aren't just bad decisions, they're utterly inexplicable unless some person or persons with bad intentions are added to the mix, then each step becomes merely bad decisions. They trusted the wrong person, followed them to somewhere they didn't know, ran into the woods to escape once they realized they were in some poo poo, got chased into the woods, cutting them off from their car, three of them died of exposure that night, two reached the trailer, one went for help and died on the way, last guy is in such bad shape he can barely move, so he dies much slower. I'm not saying this is ironclad or anything, just the only narrative that I can piece together that makes their choices explicable in any way. I'd love to hear alternate theories.
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Mar 19, 2018 01:53
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Azathoth posted:This is one that the more you dig into it, the less sense it makes. Allow me to explain the problems with there not being an outside person or persons involved. I mean, they only made one bad mistake. 1. Walking away from the car into the woods. You could plug aliens into your story instead of mystery psycho killers and have it play out exactly the same. They walked away, weren't mentally all there, probably got hypothermia (making any other decisions worse), and died of exposure. It's weird, but there doesn't have to be a third party involved for people to die in the woods.
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Mar 19, 2018 04:43
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The Smiley Face Bomber is pretty unnerving
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Mar 19, 2018 04:50
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Solice Kirsk posted:I mean, they only made one bad mistake. There is the question of how or why they ended up where they did before they made that decision, but you'd have to ask them that and that's not possible. I feel like that's the only question that isn't sufficiently answered by 'impaired thinking from hypothermia will murder you dead, especially if you're already lost'. Maybe they had a wild flight of fancy, maybe they got lost and weren't willing to admit (or concerned about it soon enough), maybe alcohol or depression or delusions were involved. It's a pretty mundane mystery with a lot of mundane answers; I guess the compelling element is that it's essentially completely unsolvable. Compare and contrast with, say, the Tamum Shud/Somerton Man mystery, which seems equally inscrutable but has a pretty wild array of fantastic details that elevate it above the tragically-common 'people wandering off into the woods and dying' mysteries.
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Mar 19, 2018 04:56
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Solice Kirsk posted:I mean, they only made one bad mistake. Those aren't mistakes, they're things that people just don't do for no reason. I'll grant that once they're into the woods that hypothermia and fear could make them do inexplicable things, but getting to the point where they all run into the woods is the biggest part of the problem and can't just be handwaved away as one mistake.
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Mar 19, 2018 05:08
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Azathoth posted:Why drive out into the middle of nowhere, to place none of them have ever been, in the dark, on a cold night, when none of them even brought jackets? Once they're at the spot where the car is found, why leaving the car? Be sure to include in that why they head into the woods and do not stay on the road. How would anyone besides them know what they were doing or thinking? You're inventing stuff to have it "make sense" to you. Seriously, "aliens tried to abduct them and they ran" fits just as much as "killers lured them out there and then they decided to run for it."
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Mar 19, 2018 05:14
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I mean, "you get lost driving down a back road" followed by "some guy starts yelling at you from the side of the road" followed by "your car gets stuck" could potentially cause you to panic, especially if you're intoxicated.
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Mar 19, 2018 05:26
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Solice Kirsk posted:How would anyone besides them know what they were doing or thinking? says the malort drinker
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Mar 19, 2018 05:28
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china bot posted:says the malort drinker This isn't about my bad decisions. 
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Mar 19, 2018 05:39
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Despite being 53 minutes of beeps and boops, the morse code communications between Titanic and the other ships in the vacinity are legitimately scaring me the gently caress out.
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Mar 19, 2018 06:01
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Anyone mentioned yet that we have a new unabomber that’s targeting affluent black families in Texas? And that the media in general isn’t reporting on it? Pretty drat scary.
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Mar 19, 2018 07:56
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Caganer posted:The Smiley Face Bomber is pretty unnerving
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Mar 19, 2018 08:22
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MisterBibs posted:Despite being 53 minutes of beeps and boops, the morse code communications between Titanic and the other ships in the vacinity are legitimately scaring me the gently caress out. That's desperately frustrating and sad.
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Mar 19, 2018 11:12
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joshtothemaxx posted:Anyone mentioned yet that we have a new unabomber that’s targeting affluent black families in Texas? And that the media in general isn’t reporting on it? Pretty drat scary. Have you seen how much has been going on in the NFL's free agency? I mean, there's only so much you can report in a 24 hour news cycle. Something is gonna have to get cut.
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Mar 19, 2018 13:36
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joshtothemaxx posted:Anyone mentioned yet that we have a new unabomber that’s targeting affluent black families in Texas? And that the media in general isn’t reporting on it? Pretty drat scary. It'll be ok, the latest victims are white so it should start getting national coverage.
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Mar 19, 2018 14:20
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MisterBibs posted:Despite being 53 minutes of beeps and boops, the morse code communications between Titanic and the other ships in the vacinity are legitimately scaring me the gently caress out. poo poo, this was both captivating and sad. I think it's the discrepancy of the cold language of communication in Morse Code versus knowing the real human drama going on.
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Mar 19, 2018 15:12
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MisterBibs posted:Despite being 53 minutes of beeps and boops, the morse code communications between Titanic and the other ships in the vacinity are legitimately scaring me the gently caress out. I was watching this waiting for patients to show up, and ended up with one of the docs and nurse practitioners sitting and watching with me. Holy crap.
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Mar 19, 2018 15:33
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Azathoth posted:Why drive out into the middle of nowhere, to place none of them have ever been, in the dark, on a cold night, when none of them even brought jackets? Once they're at the spot where the car is found, why leaving the car? Be sure to include in that why they head into the woods and do not stay on the road. Answer: 1. Because they were lost and did not realize they were lost, and thought they were in a familiar location in which it would make sense to go that way. 2. Because the car was semi-stuck in the snow (the story says they could have dug/pushed it out, but did they know that? they may have assumed it was unfixable). 3. Because they thought it made sense to go that way based on their misunderstanding of where they were. Remember this is before phone GPS was a thing, and it was extremely easy to get lost back then. Remember also that people with intellectual & developmental disabilities often don't have the mental capability to figure out the best steps to take in a new & scary situation. If one guy said "hey, I think we should go that way" the rest of them may have just assumed he was right and followed along. The guy in the cabin may have had injuries/frostbite that he didn't know how to deal with that progressively weakened him, or he may have survived fine for a while, then been injured or gotten hypothermia, at which point he made the bad decision to go to bed and wrap himself up to get warm. joshtothemaxx posted:Anyone mentioned yet that we have a new unabomber that’s targeting affluent black families in Texas? And that the media in general isn’t reporting on it? Pretty drat scary.
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Mar 19, 2018 16:44
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Two of the guys really seem like they should've been intelligent and aware enough not to drive 50 miles in the wrong direction and then go randomly wandering off into the woods with no proper cold weather gear. All five of these guys weren't like developmentally disabled to the point that they couldn't live on their own and function, one of them had a car and was driving after all. I'd be interested to know if there was like a "leader" of the group, someone who could've had really bad ideas about how to handle the situation and the others were so used to following his lead that they didn't argue until it was too late to turn back.
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Mar 19, 2018 17:04
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https://www.yahoo.com/gma/her-kidnapping-initially-called-hoax-woman-called-gone-113304443--abc-news-topstories.html
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Mar 19, 2018 18:17
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pookel posted:The media is all OVER it, wtf are you talking about? Not the same way they would be if it was prominent white families. A dog that died on a plane got as much coverage.
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Mar 19, 2018 18:18
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Even non developmentally people make stupid decisions under stress. They got lost, got stuck in the snow, got even more lost, and died from exposure. Inventing ghosts to explain it away is fine, but you're basing it off of absolutely nothing/a guy that was having a heart attack and also thought he saw a mother and child wandering the woods.
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Mar 19, 2018 18:19
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Thwomp posted:poo poo, this was both captivating and sad. I think it's the discrepancy of the cold language of communication in Morse Code versus knowing the real human drama going on. And they're just so incredibly British about it, calling each other "old man" and poo poo. Wasn't Titanic the first ship to use SOS? They didn't until halfway through, and even then it's "SOS CQD SOS CQD CQD" Also my father was an Army radioman in Vietnam, and when I walked in with it playing he recognized "CQD" instantly, though he can't fully translate on the fly ( to be fair he was taught it 50 years ago, and only had to do 15wpm to pass, sailors have to do 18.) Chillbro Baggins has a new favorite as of 18:32 on Mar 19, 2018 |
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Mar 19, 2018 18:22
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Bad Angus! Bad!
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Randaconda posted:https://www.yahoo.com/gma/her-kidnapping-initially-called-hoax-woman-called-gone-113304443--abc-news-topstories.html This story is horrific and it's awful that she wasn't believed, but what the good gently caress is this picture?  Man I'd be inclined to think it was a hoax myself based on this picture alone.
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Mar 19, 2018 18:29
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Solice Kirsk posted:Even non developmentally people make stupid decisions under stress. They got lost, got stuck in the snow, got even more lost, and died from exposure. Inventing ghosts to explain it away is fine, but you're basing it off of absolutely nothing/a guy that was having a heart attack and also thought he saw a mother and child wandering the woods. Yes, your explanation is by far the most likely, I'm not sure why you think anyone is arguing anything different. It's just a very strange and interesting situation to think and theorize about. I'm less concerned with some crazy scenario having played out and more interested in the social dynamics of how 5 men come together to make such ludicrous decisions. When it's just a single person alone it's easier to understand how those decisions get made but when it's a group you have to think there was some discussion about what to do.
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Mar 19, 2018 18:34
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Depressio111117 posted:This story is horrific and it's awful that she wasn't believed, but what the good gently caress is this picture? i watch enough of these ABC specials to know that it's a filter they use relentlessly, for no clear reason Basebf555 posted:Yes, your explanation is by far the most likely, I'm not sure why you think anyone is arguing anything different. It's just a very strange and interesting situation to think and theorize about. I'm less concerned with some crazy scenario having played out and more interested in the social dynamics of how 5 men come together to make such ludicrous decisions. When it's just a single person alone it's easier to understand how those decisions get made but when it's a group you have to think there was some discussion about what to do. gentlemen, you can't have fun here, it's PYF
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Mar 19, 2018 18:39
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Delivery McGee posted:And they're just so incredibly British about it, calling each other "old man" and poo poo. Why do they send multiple 'V's near the end? Is it to do with George the 5th, like a shorthand' God Save The King'?
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Mar 19, 2018 19:00
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Someone in the comments claims that the Vs indicate that they’d tried adjusting the radio and were testing the new configuration. They weren’t able to hear transmissions and were losing power by then but still trying to keep comms up and running.
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Mar 19, 2018 19:29
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Praseodymi posted:Why do they send multiple 'V's near the end? Is it to do with George the 5th, like a shorthand' God Save The King'? It's a British FTW? (No, kids, not 'for the win')
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Mar 19, 2018 19:49
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Basebf555 posted:Yes, your explanation is by far the most likely, I'm not sure why you think anyone is arguing anything different. It's just a very strange and interesting situation to think and theorize about. I'm less concerned with some crazy scenario having played out and more interested in the social dynamics of how 5 men come together to make such ludicrous decisions. When it's just a single person alone it's easier to understand how those decisions get made but when it's a group you have to think there was some discussion about what to do. I once saw 10 grown men decide it was a good idea to dive fully clothed into Lake Michigan in November at 2am. People are loving stupid. It is an interesting mystery though. I think the not eating the food is the weirdest part of the whole thing. Staying there for weeks and only eating a little seems really odd, but when you're freezing and hurt the choices you make aren't always going to be good.
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Mar 19, 2018 20:06
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People in distress make really strange decisions. This whole thing reminded me of the somewhat more recent case of Kris Kremers and Lisanne Froon, two young Dutch girls that were work/studying abroad in Panama and went missing in 2014. What *exactly* happened to them is still a mystery. Items they carried with them have been located, including a phone/camera with a series of very bizarre photos. https://www.thedailybeast.com/death-on-the-serpent-river-how-the-lost-girls-of-panama-disappeared The most likely reality is that an animal got them, or they were injured and just died. Bones have been found that are proven to belong to them, but there's some suspicion that due to the location they were found that a local tribe *might* have some shady info on what really happened.. Or, I guess, aliens. That Damn Satyr has a new favorite as of 21:19 on Mar 19, 2018 |
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Mar 19, 2018 21:15
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That one seemed a little more simple in that the two girls were out hiking in the woods/jungle for fun, so there's no need to explain why they were in the woods in the first place. They found evidence that one of them left the other, so the simplest explanation is they got off the trail, one of them fell and was injured, and the other left and went for help but never made it. The five guys from up the page had to make several terrible decisions just to end up in the woods in the first place.
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Mar 19, 2018 21:27
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Through the Wikipedia rabbit hole, I found of list of U.S. congressmen who died in office. There are a handful of suicides, but this might be one of the more baffling ones. Douglas Hemphill Elliott (R-Pennsylvania) was serving in the Pennsylvania State Senate in 1960 when he won a special election to fill the House seat of Richard Simpson, who had died in office. Elliott was elected April 26, 1960 and sworn in May 7. On June 19, 1960, he was found dead in his garage. A deerskin was draped over his head, as well as over the exhaust pipe of his car. The death was ruled a suicide. Another article said a razor blade and two .30-caliber rifle bullets were found on his person. Everyone interviewed for articles was shocked. Elliott had not missed a House vote since being elected and had apparently told Reverend Billy Graham he intended to be there every night of Graham's crusade in Washington D.C. that week. He attended a wedding the night before. As far as I can tell, no one ever offered a reason that might have led to Elliott's death. Dude must have been pretty tortured. EDIT: Completely unrelated to Elliott, two more congressmen who died in office, Nick Begich and Hale Boggs, presumably died in an airplane crash in Alaska in 1972. The plane and bodies were never found.. Begich's widow married a man who claimed he bombed the plane. RC and Moon Pie has a new favorite as of 22:59 on Mar 19, 2018 |
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Mar 19, 2018 22:49
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It's also notable that from what I've heard, that particular trail is easy going for the first part, but if you keep going past a certain point the trail narrows and starts to disappear. Reasonable speculation is that they kept going past the smart point to take without a guide because they saw something deeper in, thought they could handle it, and quickly lost the path. This is supported by the last pictures of them on that trail where they're happy and unworried, and I guess that's right around the point where the path gets progressively worse deeper in? I've heard speculation that they saw a rare bird or something else that they figured would be worth keeping going for a little while to get a better look at, after all they felt fine and the path was so clear and the day was so nice and they'd turn around in 15 minutes, easy. Except 15 minutes turned into an hour turned into losing the path, one of them falling or becoming injured some other way, the phone not having reception despite multiple attempts to call for help, and death by exposure. The mystery is that it's impossible to know exactly what happened, because you can't ask the dead, but the most likely explanations are fairly mundane and don't involve human malice, just curiousity, overconfidence, and something injuring one of them past the point where she could keep walking, requiring the other to either stay with her friend and they both die or to leave her friend behind and try to get help.
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Mar 19, 2018 22:54
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It's still extremely unnerving how quickly a fun day out can turn into a horrific situation you're unlikely to survive and how low the chances of people finding your bodies or knowing what happened is. Nature does not gently caress around.
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Mar 19, 2018 22:59
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MisterBibs posted:Despite being 53 minutes of beeps and boops, the morse code communications between Titanic and the other ships in the vacinity are legitimately scaring me the gently caress out. Have I got something nightmare fueling for you. http://www.planecrashinfo.com/lastwords.htm
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Mar 19, 2018 23:22
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PetraCore posted:Nature does not gently caress around. I mean, yeah pretty much. The comparison of the two cases begins and ends at "people go deep into wilderness for unknown reason and die", since we know the motives of the Dutch girls but can only speculate about what drove the boys in the older case. It just reminded me, and it's an interesting story, so I thought I'd share it again. 
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Mar 19, 2018 23:50
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