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NGDBSS
Dec 30, 2009






It looks like a cross between the squattest, boxiest vehicles of the Imperium and a megachurch. Rather fitting for an entire school of game design that refuses to change or move on.

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ProfessorCirno
Feb 17, 2011

The strongest! The smartest!
The rightest!
Starfinder's setting is our punishment as a species for allowing TV Tropes to continue this long.

Rockman Reserve
Oct 2, 2007

"Carbons? Purge? What are you talking about?!"

The best part of Cthulhutech's dice system is that it was totally, obviously broken even at a cursory glance. Like, anyone who has passed basic algebra should have read the rules with a growing sense of awe and horror. And yet, somehow it made it to print, and sold a gazillion copies.

Splicer
Oct 16, 2006

from hell's heart I cast at thee
🧙🐀🧹🌙🪄🐸

food court bailiff posted:

The best part of Cthulhutech's dice system is that it was totally, obviously broken even at a cursory glance. Like, anyone who has passed basic algebra should have read the rules with a growing sense of awe and horror. And yet, somehow it made it to print, and sold a gazillion copies.
Back when this came came out a member of staff at a now defunct LFGS tried to sell me on this, and the first thing I said was that the resolution mechanic seems kind of clunky and asked how it worked in play.

The blank eyed, confused stare at the phrase "in play" told me everything I needed to know.

My Lovely Horse
Aug 21, 2010

Lurdiak posted:

My campaign that I envisioned as some kind of horror themed war against the undead is kind of turning into a road trip across D&D land. The party's hung out with orcs, dwarves and elves so far, and now they're gonna go see the eladrin.

DMing is weird.
My secret dream campaign is basically Asterix in D&D land, where the party travels to a different race each adventure and goes through all of the cliches. The one guy in our group who keeps compulsively changing characters gets to play the "friendly local" character each adventure. (It's me, I am that guy.)

Der Waffle Mous
Nov 27, 2009

In the grim future, there is only commerce.

NGDBSS posted:

It looks like a cross between the squattest, boxiest vehicles of the Imperium and a megachurch. Rather fitting for an entire school of game design that refuses to change or move on.

looks like they photoshopped some cathedral bits on a screenshot of Homeworld 2.

unseenlibrarian
Jun 4, 2012

There's only one thing in the mountains that leaves a track like this. The creature of legend that roams the Timberline. My people named him Sasquatch. You call him... Bigfoot.
The fun part is that at some point, they -had- a working mechanic. When Cthulhutech was originally pitched, it was going to use the same system as WOTG/Legends of the Wulin, which had a perfectly functional die mechanic with a probability chart in the back of the book even. Then at some point they decided to go their own way and put their own flourish on things and, welp.

slap me and kiss me
Apr 1, 2008

You best protect ya neck
:siren: New blogpost is up for Let Thrones Beware

Today's topic: Linear Everyone - Defining Game Principles

After three weeks of looking at the themes of Let Thrones Beware, it's time to switch gears and discuss something new. This week is the first of a two-part look at the fundamental principles of the game. Up for discussion first: everyone is equally capable of affecting the narrative no matter their choices, and mechanical choices must be meaningful.

Linear Everyone - Defining Game Principles

theironjef
Aug 11, 2009

The archmage of unexpected stinks.

food court bailiff posted:

The best part of Cthulhutech's dice system is that it was totally, obviously broken even at a cursory glance. Like, anyone who has passed basic algebra should have read the rules with a growing sense of awe and horror. And yet, somehow it made it to print, and sold a gazillion copies.

Somehow? Find any group of nerds and say Cthulhu to them. You can check back in an hour, they'll still be talking about it. Showing off how you know poo poo about the mythos is the modern nerd equivalent of rattling off baseball stats in the 70s.

Nuns with Guns posted:

The thing that put me off listening was how you guys missed every icky bit of Cthulhutech and called it "surprisingly playable"

Hey our radar was fuzzed, we had just reviewed Furry Pirates. Besides most of the super unpleasant poo poo was in setting books, wasn't it? The core book didn't have a lot of rape in it that I remember.

Also that was like more than four years ago. This is exactly why I'm happy if old material dies and don't want to do the work of keeping the poo poo I don't even like around for new listeners. I STILL get people mad at us about the fake 7th Sea review.

Kai Tave
Jul 2, 2012
Fallen Rib

food court bailiff posted:

The best part of Cthulhutech's dice system is that it was totally, obviously broken even at a cursory glance. Like, anyone who has passed basic algebra should have read the rules with a growing sense of awe and horror. And yet, somehow it made it to print, and sold a gazillion copies.

Cthulhutech was largely sold on the back of its artwork, which was extensively previewed leading up to its release, and the premise of fighting giant alien bug monsters with mechs. My guess is that a bunch of initial sales were from people who didn't even know what the system was like, they just wanted a good looking mech game.

Foglet
Jun 17, 2014

Reality is an illusion.
The universe is a hologram.
Buy gold.

Kai Tave posted:

they just wanted a good looking mech game
I still do.

Admiral Joeslop
Jul 8, 2010




theironjef posted:

Somehow? Find any group of nerds and say Cthulhu to them. You can check back in an hour, they'll still be talking about it. Showing off how you know poo poo about the mythos is the modern nerd equivalent of rattling off baseball stats in the 70s.


Hey our radar was fuzzed, we had just reviewed Furry Pirates. Besides most of the super unpleasant poo poo was in setting books, wasn't it? The core book didn't have a lot of rape in it that I remember.

Also that was like more than four years ago. This is exactly why I'm happy if old material dies and don't want to do the work of keeping the poo poo I don't even like around for new listeners. I STILL get people mad at us about the fake 7th Sea review.

As someone who just listened to that episode a couple weeks ago, I'm not angry. I was simply confused as I tend to zone out while driving.

Also, since I have you: I absolutely fell for the Duckman episode, straight up.

Kai Tave
Jul 2, 2012
Fallen Rib

Foglet posted:

I still do.

LANCER has looked pretty good so far.

Subjunctive
Sep 12, 2006

✨sparkle and shine✨

theironjef posted:

The core book didn't have a lot of rape in it that I remember.

For purposes of classification, how much rape is “a lot of rape”?

Lemon-Lime
Aug 6, 2009

Kai Tave posted:

LANCER has looked pretty good so far.

It's extremely beta, though.

Battle Century G is also really good.

Kai Tave
Jul 2, 2012
Fallen Rib

Lemon-Lime posted:

It's extremely beta, though.

Still more playable than Cthulhutech though.

Yawgmoth
Sep 10, 2003

This post is cursed!

unseenlibrarian posted:

The fun part is that at some point, they -had- a working mechanic. When Cthulhutech was originally pitched, it was going to use the same system as WOTG/Legends of the Wulin, which had a perfectly functional die mechanic with a probability chart in the back of the book even. Then at some point they decided to go their own way and put their own flourish on things and, welp.
It's kinda like if LotW and L5R conceived something in the middle of the remains of Chernobyl.

Foglet
Jun 17, 2014

Reality is an illusion.
The universe is a hologram.
Buy gold.

Kai Tave posted:

LANCER has looked pretty good so far.

Lemon-Lime posted:

It's extremely beta, though.

Battle Century G is also really good.

Yes, those are both good (can't wait to see the finalized version of Lancer since I'm usually not too keen on investing much effort into games still under constructon), but my current go-to mecha game is Remnants, even with its specific postapoc setting.

Alas, they all are still in a lower weight class compared to what CTech potentially could've become if it had anything good besides the art.

Plutonis
Mar 25, 2011

Subjunctive
Sep 12, 2006

✨sparkle and shine✨

Is it a good parody?

Lurdiak
Feb 26, 2006

I believe in a universe that doesn't care, and people that do.



Why thef uck are you on that site.

LaSquida
Nov 1, 2012

Just keep on walkin'.

Lurdiak posted:

Why thef uck are you on that site.

I assume he's masturbating.

Plutonis
Mar 25, 2011

How do you guys know which site that is :greencube:

fool of sound
Oct 10, 2012

Lurdiak posted:

Why thef uck are you on that site.

You're asking the forums leading hentai expert

Nuns with Guns
Jul 23, 2010

It's fine.
Don't worry about it.

theironjef posted:

Also that was like more than four years ago. This is exactly why I'm happy if old material dies and don't want to do the work of keeping the poo poo I don't even like around for new listeners. I STILL get people mad at us about the fake 7th Sea review.

It takes time to salivate over the rape camps the Deep Ones set up. In the end you guys enthusiastically say you'd play it, and the response to the one comment who brings up the F&F review about how it was bad is pretty "Yeah, some people don't like it. Maybe the bad dice or the fishmen breeding camps. :shrug:" So it was kind of off-putting. I was jumping around trying to listen to some games I've read/played and I stopped at that. Maybe if you guys disown it, just put a warning or addendum on the archive?

Alien Rope Burn
Dec 5, 2004

I wanna be a saikyo HERO!

theironjef posted:

Hey our radar was fuzzed, we had just reviewed Furry Pirates. Besides most of the super unpleasant poo poo was in setting books, wasn't it? The core book didn't have a lot of rape in it that I remember.

Yeah, they waited for the supplements before springing the overt creeptrap on readers. Kind of like how Witch Girl Adventures requires some wider knowledge regarding the creators / game to look for their creepy tics.

Scyther
Dec 29, 2010

Alien Rope Burn posted:

Kind of like how Witch Girl Adventures requires some wider knowledge regarding the creators / game to look for their creepy tics.

Well, spill the beans.

Alien Rope Burn
Dec 5, 2004

I wanna be a saikyo HERO!

Scyther posted:

Well, spill the beans.

Somebody went into wayyy more detail than I ever could in the FATAL & Friends review for the morbidly curious. In brief: the authors are transformation fetishists, which isn't worth begrudging on that alone. But a lot of their fiction output centers around abusive and homicidal takes on the fetish, usually involving an underage pet character that features in a lot of it. Which, if it was something private... I suppose that'd just be their business. However, it's very public, and an essential part of the whole Witch Girls attempted franchising. They've tried to fund comics, short films, and other fiction regarding it where "underage witch transforms person into something and murders them in a torturous or humiliating way" is constantly on display as a power fantasy.

Then they make Witch Girls Adventures. Same universe, same fixations, same pet character, but in with an RPG explicitly aimed at young people, involving underage girls as characters. This has some problems.

theironjef
Aug 11, 2009

The archmage of unexpected stinks.

Scyther posted:

Well, spill the beans.

The book is mostly an excuse for forced transformation fetishism masquerading as comics for and about teenage witches.

Kai Tave
Jul 2, 2012
Fallen Rib
Witch Girl Adventures actually pisses me off more than Cthulhutech because if you just casually glance at it WGA looks like a neat RPG aimed towards younger players, that's pretty cool, only then it turns out to be not only a lovely, badly designed game but also a vehicle for the creators' transformation/snuff/vore/whatever fetishes. CTech is full of gross poo poo but at least it isn't pretending that it would be a good thing to buy your daughter to play with her friends.

Nuns with Guns
Jul 23, 2010

It's fine.
Don't worry about it.

Kai Tave posted:

Witch Girl Adventures actually pisses me off more than Cthulhutech because if you just casually glance at it WGA looks like a neat RPG aimed towards younger players, that's pretty cool, only then it turns out to be not only a lovely, badly designed game but also a vehicle for the creators' transformation/snuff/vore/whatever fetishes. CTech is full of gross poo poo but at least it isn't pretending that it would be a good thing to buy your daughter to play with her friends.

Their fetishes are transformation, snuff, vore, smoking, transforming someone into a cigarette and smoking them to death, and apparently writing all their books with voice-to-text and never, ever running a basic spell check. They also did the exact same game, but with adult witches smashing the patriarchy in a way that's indistinguishable from alt-right parodies of feminism. The whole thing is just some loose attempt at providing rules for their creepy online sex RPs, iirc.

Junpei
Oct 4, 2015
Probation
Can't post for 11 years!
Are mechanicless/roll-less PBP games allowed here? Role play with no systems or mechanics (aside from an inventory)?

Kai Tave
Jul 2, 2012
Fallen Rib

Nuns with Guns posted:

Their fetishes are transformation, snuff, vore, smoking, transforming someone into a cigarette and smoking them to death, and apparently writing all their books with voice-to-text and never, ever running a basic spell check. They also did the exact same game, but with adult witches smashing the patriarchy in a way that's indistinguishable from alt-right parodies of feminism. The whole thing is just some loose attempt at providing rules for their creepy online sex RPs, iirc.

Yeah, Bellum Maga for which there's also an extensive F&F review. Anecdotally the creator is apparently a real pain in the rear end when roleplaying for reasons other than their fetishes invading everything, they're the sort of person who loves doing extremely dumb poo poo to other peoples' characters and then acting confused when they're rightly told off for it which probably explains why all the horrible sstuff whatsername the Evil Witch Girl example character in WGA does to her victims is just sort of treated like a joke that no one ever takes her to task for.

fool of sound
Oct 10, 2012

Junpei posted:

Are mechanicless/roll-less PBP games allowed here? Role play with no systems or mechanics (aside from an inventory)?

Yes

Babylon Astronaut
Apr 19, 2012

Junpei posted:

Are mechanicless/roll-less PBP games allowed here? Role play with no systems or mechanics (aside from an inventory)?
Open games, free form RP, whatever.

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy
The topic of Munchkin and Monopoly came up in the KS thread:

I'm of the opinion that the leading cause of Monopoly turning into an endless slog is all of the "houserules" that people implement that give people extra cash*, as well as ignoring one of the key rules - if a person lands on a property but can't immediately buy it for its listed price, then it goes into auction among all the other players, which causes the board to be completely bought-out much sooner than if you could just "skip" buying a property that you couldn't afford.

Between these two things, you should be able to reduce Monopoly to a 60-90 minute game, since people will run out of cash that much sooner.

In that context, what would it take, or how would change Munchkin, to make it shorter and have a more deliberate ending?

________

* that Monopoly turns into a game where nobody loses as long as The Bank keeps re-injecting money into the system to ensure that everyone stays afloat is also an allegory for ... something

gradenko_2000 fucked around with this message at 06:29 on Mar 20, 2018

Cassa
Jan 29, 2009
Get to level 5, strip back the 'gently caress you' cards.

Kai Tave
Jul 2, 2012
Fallen Rib

gradenko_2000 posted:

The topic of Munchkin and Monopoly came up in the KS thread:

I'm of the opinion that the leading cause of Monopoly turning into an endless slog is all of the "houserules" that people implement that give people extra cash, as well as ignoring one of the key rules - if a person lands on a property but can't immediately buy it for its listed price, then it goes into auction among all the other players, which causes the board to be completely bought-out much sooner than if you could just "skip" buying a property that you couldn't afford.

Between these two things, you should be able to reduce Monopoly to a 60-90 minute game, since people will run out of cash that much sooner.

In that context, what would it take, or how would change Munchkin, to make it shorter and have a more deliberate ending?

Munchkin doesn't drag because of houserules really, it drags because it's an extremely kingmaker-y "take that" sort of game. Maybe the main "houserule" that causes its time to balloon to interminable proportions is people wanting to play a single game with 6, 7, 8+ people at once and to be honest I can't honestly remember if that's considered a houserule or not because Munchkin is the sort of game where the rules might honestly say something like "plays 2 to infinity."

Giving Munchkin a more deliberate ending is (on paper) pretty easy...eliminate most of, if not all, of the dumb "take that" stuff from the game. Of course just doing that by itself probably wouldn't make the game actually good or anything, but the primary reason Munchkin games take forever to resolve is because as soon as one person winds up being clearly ahead of the others everyone else gangs up on them to drag them back down like the metaphorical bucket of crabs.

There are other ways to mitigate it as well. Argent: the Consortium is a worker placement game set at a magic academy where "take that" can be as simple as nabbing a spot that you knew one of your opponents wanted or as elaborate as meteor striking an entire piece of the board out of existence, starting wizard fights that send peoples' pieces to the infirmary, and all other sorts of magical fuckery. It is kind of a long game because it has a lot of moving parts (I'm talking a couple hours long, not "Twilight Imperium" long) but it also definitively and conclusively ends because the game has a hard-capped five round limit, and at the end of those five rounds you score objectives to determine who won. So that would be another way to approach it...players have X rounds to Do Stuff, which includes your typical killing monsters and leveling up but also trying to complete certain objectives like "gather Y pieces of Z-themed equipment" or "have more magic spells than anyone else," some could be secret and some could be public, and then at the end of those X rounds the game ends and you count up the score and whoever got the highest is the Munchkin Master or whatever.

senrath
Nov 4, 2009

Look Professor, a destruct switch!


Munchkin is for 3 to 6 players, so yeah, trying to play with 7+ is a houserule.

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Scyther
Dec 29, 2010

multiple posters posted:

witch girl stuff

Yikes!

I had to ask because I vaguely remember seeing the writer post about Witch Girls in a board game group on facebook a while back and I had precisely the same thought of "Oh this looks like a neat game for younger players". Christ.

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