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sincx fucked around with this message at 05:44 on Mar 23, 2021 |
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Mar 12, 2018 18:32
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So what's the deal with this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcryuTkyXDM
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Mar 14, 2018 02:22
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https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/13/world/asia/china-eye-roll-liang-xiangyi.htmlKnown Lecher posted:The TL;DR is that the woman in red (asking the question) was from a bogus "foreign media" outlet that at least has heavy ties to the Chinese government, if it isn't owned outright by them. There's an image floating around from Google Street View that supposedly shows its "headquarters" as being a storefront in a dilapidated-looking strip mall in Seattle with a super generic sign like 'MMTT Enterprises'.
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Mar 14, 2018 02:35
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She said 我們國家 or "our country" and she sure didn't mean America
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Mar 14, 2018 02:38
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Bloodnose posted:She said 我們國家 or "our country" and she sure didn't mean America All ethnic Chinese are loyal first to their true home of China, do you know? Please respect our feelings.
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Mar 14, 2018 06:00
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sincx fucked around with this message at 05:44 on Mar 23, 2021 |
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Mar 14, 2018 06:11
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China's "social credit" system get's even more authoritarian. Straight out of Black Mirror.
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Mar 19, 2018 16:24
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Grouchio posted:China's "social credit" system get's even more authoritarian. Wasn't there something where credit would be rated by what you buy? Like someone who buys videogames would get a credit penalty?
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Mar 19, 2018 16:31
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Yep.quote:So just how are people rated? Individuals on Sesame Credit are measured by a score ranging between 350 and 950 points. Alibaba does not divulge the "complex algorithm" it uses to calculate the number but they do reveal the five factors taken into account. The first is credit history. For example, does the citizen pay their electricity or phone bill on time? Next is fulfilment capacity, which it defines in its guidelines as "a user's ability to fulfil his/her contract obligations". The third factor is personal characteristics, verifying personal information such as someone's mobile phone number and address. But the fourth category, behaviour and preference, is where it gets interesting. It's not clear if that's in the system they're starting to implement now.
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Mar 19, 2018 16:42
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Kassad posted:Yep. I don't have links since it had been over a decade since I read about it, but this has been done in Canada and I think also the US before. Consumers and regulators may not like it but in theory if you went entirely data driven and didn't rely on stereotypes it would probably do better than a fico score (obviously not what is happening here). The problem from a US standpoint is that you will inevitably run up against your models having a disparate impact from a fair lending standpoint.
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Mar 19, 2018 17:53
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There's an inherent bias towards maintaining the status quo in these systems. If you previously behaved like a poor person you will be less likely to get a business loan etc.
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Mar 19, 2018 18:08
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Arglebargle III posted:There's an inherent bias towards maintaining the status quo in these systems. If you previously behaved like a poor person you will be less likely to get a business loan etc. 1. How is that different from a fico score? 2. What do you think should be fair game for credit issuers to use as a criteria for lending to someone or not?
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Mar 19, 2018 18:23
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Sounds like a business opportunity "Buy SocialScore!". You can create a sevice where you pay a fee montly, and they buy diapers in your name (and sell in a shop) and inform you of the current score. And give you advices how to raise it. Sounds like gamification to me.
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Mar 19, 2018 18:31
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Tei posted:Sounds like a business opportunity Life is Free2Play but Pay2Win. California Article posted:It’s possible to take the California-Taiwan comparison too far. “The mainland has missiles pointed at us,” one Taiwanese journalist reminded me. “Does America have missiles pointed at you in California? Lol
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Mar 19, 2018 18:34
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sincx fucked around with this message at 05:44 on Mar 23, 2021 |
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Mar 19, 2018 18:41
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therobit posted:1. How is that different from a fico score? It isn’t, there are over 700 different FICO products offered for virtually any type of transaction, each taking into account their own special criteria. There’s a special score for people trying to borrow money to buy a boat, for example. A lot of the outrage regarding sesame credit is just western enemy imaging of Asians as usual, especially when you consider that it’s a private credit score being developed in a country that hasn’t had widespread access to consumer credit until a decade or two ago.
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Mar 19, 2018 18:43
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Does any western government use credit scores to limit freedom of movement, or limit anything for that matter? Credit scores being used for things unrelated to borrowing (I remember needing a credit check to rent an apartment in Manhattan, for example) are used improperly and unfairly and arguably cyberpunkly by the market, but a government using social credit to engineer behavior and especially political thought and action is decisively different and worse.
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Mar 19, 2018 19:43
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I wish something transparent like a social credit score would replace opaque government filters - the no-fly list comes to mind.
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Mar 19, 2018 20:09
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How much is it to farm a 700+ score?
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Mar 19, 2018 20:20
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sincx fucked around with this message at 05:44 on Mar 23, 2021 |
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Mar 19, 2018 20:29
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Bloodnose posted:Does any western government use credit scores to limit freedom of movement, or limit anything for that matter? Credit scores being used for things unrelated to borrowing (I remember needing a credit check to rent an apartment in Manhattan, for example) are used improperly and unfairly and arguably cyberpunkly by the market, but a government using social credit to engineer behavior and especially political thought and action is decisively different and worse. There’s no proof of that happening outside of misleading and poorly translated articles. The no fly list the authorities use is no different than ones western democracies come up with when it comes to subversives and suspected terrorists
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Mar 19, 2018 21:17
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Peven Stan posted:There’s no proof of that happening outside of misleading and poorly translated articles. http://www.ndrc.gov.cn/gzdt/201803/t20180316_879653.html I assume you can read Chinese. For those of you who can't, here's an official policy announcement about using the social credit system to restrict the movements of people who have lost the trust of the authorities, published on the official website of the National Development and Reform Commission of the People's Republic of China
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Mar 19, 2018 22:14
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Why should your personal hobbies effect your freedom of travel? What happens if I disagree with the social credits assessment of me or I think it has made a mistake? The no-fly list is bad but at least it doesnt permeate my entire life.
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Mar 19, 2018 22:19
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Bloodnose posted:http://www.ndrc.gov.cn/gzdt/201803/t20180316_879653.html If you read the post it’s about restricting the ability of people who make terrorist threats, impede civil aviation authorities in their duties, or threaten/disrupt the crew on airplanes from flying. The second class of offenders are white collar criminals who cheat on their taxes, embezzle, or commit social insurance fraud. Those people are obviously a flight risk and should be barred from flying. Once again, how are those offenses any different than what liberal democracies use to restrict freedom of movement?
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Mar 19, 2018 22:35
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So why did China decide to move more authoritarian and give that Xi guy so much power?
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Mar 19, 2018 23:20
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Peven Stan posted:If you read the post it’s about restricting the ability of people who make terrorist threats, impede civil aviation authorities in their duties, or threaten/disrupt the crew on airplanes from flying. This policy is in regards to 失信人, that is "people who have lost our trust" rather than 犯人 or "criminal offender." And it is very specifically built on and directly references the State Council's 2016 proclamation on building a social credit system to "discipline" those untrustworthy individuals: http://www.gov.cn/zhengce/content/2016-06/12/content_5081222.htm That document then includes long lists of untrustworthy behavior that of course includes 严重破坏网络空间传播秩序、聚众扰乱社会秩序等严重失信行为 making a ruckus online and gathering people to disrupt social order. It's a bad system that, while it certainly has applications in the sphere of civil and criminal punishment that might be broadly accepted across the world, it is also being used and arguably primarily being used as a method of social and political control. Yes, western countries have also abused civil and criminal and executive punishment systems as a method of social and political control. Yes, that is also bad. It is definitely worth talking about in threads about those countries. It does not mean China is not doing bad things.
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Mar 19, 2018 23:56
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sincx fucked around with this message at 05:44 on Mar 23, 2021 |
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Mar 20, 2018 00:06
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sincx posted:The first post of every page in this thread should be a big blinking "two wrongs don't make a right." actually, america also has two wrongs
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Mar 20, 2018 00:13
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the train punishments for offenses not specifically related to trains are not being able to buy first-class seats, soft sleepers or the ridiculously fast g bullet train (the merely extremely fast c and d trains are still available). truly this is a measure intended to punish the poor
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Mar 20, 2018 00:27
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My score is 629 and it's more or less the same. Honestly, right now, the more you shop with alipay the higher it goes. That's it. I don't think the black mirror scary stuff has been implemented yet. I'm still not eligible for deposit free services like: Hello bike (but ofo is ok) Rent a car through tmall (but i use shenzhou so it's ok) Rent a wifi when i leave the country (in this case, Hong Kong also applies) If I actually lived in China my score will be higher. I still post random stuff and sarcastic stuff on wechat I seem to be ok. Right now, I haven't seen any notification for my score dropping or going up. Oh never mind, If I link more of my personal information to the credit system and different online services like linked in, my driver's license (Hong Kong doesn't count), and my vehicle information and all I guess my score will go up.
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Mar 20, 2018 00:55
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My second biggest loving gripe with these online systems in China is that Hong Kongers and foreign residents get the short end of the stick. It's only after 5 years of online ordering a rail way ticket that I can redeem my ticket through some automated kiosk instead of lining up 45 minutes. Or that I jumped through quite a few hoops to setup alipay/wechat pay. Or that I'm still not eligible to stay at some domestic hotel.
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Mar 20, 2018 01:01
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punk rebel ecks posted:So why did China decide to move more authoritarian and give that Xi guy so much power? China has always had an authoritarian government but ever since Deng Xiaoping's death, political decision-making at the top level has been dominated by rival political factions competing for power and influence. When Xi came to power, he used an anti-corruption campaign to take out rival factions and consolidated power to his side. Getting rid of term limits is Xi's way to demonstrate to the rest of the CCP that he is now firmly in control of the party. If the other factions were still powerful, they would have normally opposed such a move. But now that they're either weakened or eliminated, there is no one left to oppose Xi and his faction. This signals to the rest of the party to either fall in line or else. So it's not that China gave Xi power, but that Xi has become so powerful he can force China to make him President-for-life/God-Emperor.
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Mar 20, 2018 01:04
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http://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/law-crime/article/2137632/two-drunk-foreigners-arrested-after-stealing-then-crashing Holy poo poo
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Mar 20, 2018 01:15
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CIGNX posted:So it's not that China gave Xi power, but that Xi has become so powerful he can force China to make him President-for-life/God-Emperor. We all know Peng Liyuan, the living embodiment of Chinese womanhood, got tough with them when they spoke up. EDIT: I think it's possible that Xi made himself paramount leader for life* because he feels he's the best man to embody the party and guide China. I'm sure all the perks that come with it played a big part as well but I wouldn't doubt such a claim. It's also still incredibly megalomaniac and bad too. *Or until removed from office/power. RocknRollaAyatollah fucked around with this message at 01:55 on Mar 20, 2018 |
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Mar 20, 2018 01:33
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punk rebel ecks posted:So why did China decide to move more authoritarian and give that Xi guy so much power? the workers collectively decided he was doing a great job and should keep doing it
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Mar 20, 2018 03:40
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Bloodnose posted:It's a bad system that, while it certainly has applications in the sphere of civil and criminal punishment that might be broadly accepted across the world, it is also being used and arguably primarily being used as a method of social and political control. Yes, western countries have also abused civil and criminal and executive punishment systems as a method of social and political control. Yes, that is also bad. It is definitely worth talking about in threads about those countries. It does not mean China is not doing bad things. I'm sure a bunch of state department employees and other Serious White Liberals only think good thoughts of the Chinese people and just want them to be liberal, compassionate imperialists like themselves CAPS LOCK BROKEN fucked around with this message at 03:44 on Mar 20, 2018 |
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Mar 20, 2018 03:41
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caberham posted:http://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/law-crime/article/2137632/two-drunk-foreigners-arrested-after-stealing-then-crashing Doxxing is a bannable offense on this forum please leave me alone.
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Mar 20, 2018 03:51
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The comparison doesn't really work though, China wants to conquer Taiwan, most Americans just want California to sink into the ocean. 
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Mar 20, 2018 04:11
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caberham posted:http://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/law-crime/article/2137632/two-drunk-foreigners-arrested-after-stealing-then-crashing quote:Police said the South African was arrested for drink-driving, unauthorised taking of a vehicle, making off without payment and not stopping after an accident. I like the touch of "you crashed your stolen taxi into another car, and then left without waiting for the cops  "
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Mar 20, 2018 04:18
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Back Hack posted:The comparison doesn't really work though, China wants to conquer Taiwan, most Americans just want California to sink into the ocean. The comparison will weirdly hold when Taiwan and California both solve the questions by drifting (further) out to sea when the next Big One hits.
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Mar 20, 2018 04:31
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