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I don't so much debate him as laugh at him every time he bursts in with his latest galactic brain idea.
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Mar 16, 2018 14:13
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Junior G-man posted:This thread has multiple years experience with GC, the psychotic austerity lover, how are we still debating him? There's no chance on God's earth that we'll get anywhere. He's been banned for long enough that I'm a bit out of practice ignoring his trolling.
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Mar 16, 2018 14:16
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Junior G-man posted:This thread has multiple years experience with GC, the psychotic austerity lover, how are we still debating him? There's no chance on God's earth that we'll get anywhere. Reminders for the newbies and casual readers.
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Mar 17, 2018 00:56
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Economics are bullshit
Nissin Cup Nudist fucked around with this message at 01:14 on Mar 17, 2018 |
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Mar 17, 2018 01:11
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International trade gets weird sometimes. https://twitter.com/chchristiaens/status/975061387184689152
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Mar 17, 2018 21:38
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but what about the world strategic maple reserve
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Mar 17, 2018 21:56
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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suck my woke dick posted:but what about the world strategic maple reserve Somebody's been watching netflix  That was such a bizarre loving episode, but amazing at the same time.
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Mar 17, 2018 22:01
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double nine posted:International trade gets weird sometimes. Man who would have figured the former colonies would ever get far enough on the tech-tree to put potatoes into hot oil.
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Mar 17, 2018 22:03
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MiddleOne posted:Man who would have figured the former colonies would ever get far enough on the tech-tree to put potatoes into hot oil.
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Mar 17, 2018 22:17
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It's the other way around; Brazil and Colombia are accusing Belgium, but also Germany and the Netherlands, of dumping on fries and have therefore put anti-dumping tariffs on processed potatoes. It's not clear from the article if the tariff applies to all fries from the EU, just from the incriminated countries, or just from Belgium. Also it doesn't seem to apply on fresh potatoes, only processed ones.
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Mar 17, 2018 23:18
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Latin America has a bonus to potato tech. I look forward to the potato wars. All wars woul be better if fought with spud guns.
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Mar 19, 2018 11:23
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belgians or expats in belgium itt might get a kick out of these fake election slogans: https://twitter.com/antonvoloshin/status/974708149725868034 rough translation for our english friends: CD&V - because coalition partners need wet toilet paper to wipe their rear end with Open VLD - #extranetto for the rich SP.A - please make us the real skapegoat again Groen - building towards a progressive 1995 NVA - we're not racists, but ... we don't actually care about facts, justice, diversity, women's rights, the environment or honest taxation unless we can cast blame on brown people PTB-PVDA - SP.A II: Mad Max, beyond thunderdome Vlaams Belang - we dare to express what the average NVA voter thinks PS - the corruption you know best CDH - No Gods, no masters, no ideas. DéFI - The Flemish already smell our approach Ecolo - no-one who actually lives in the green regions votes for us MR - Vote for new corruption PP - when you don't want to show your affection towards the FN
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Mar 19, 2018 18:23
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The left wing ones are really weak.
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Mar 19, 2018 19:18
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Orange Devil posted:The left wing ones are really weak. oh yeah, the bias is clear. But the left wing parties are also in opposition right now so I guess that makes for worse material?
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Mar 19, 2018 20:16
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No gods,no masters,no ideas is a solid diss
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Mar 19, 2018 22:20
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LOOOOOOOOOOOLquote:Former French president Nicolas Sarkozy is being held in police custody over campaign financing, according to reports.
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Mar 20, 2018 09:07
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 YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
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Mar 20, 2018 09:46
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Orange Devil posted:The left wing ones are really weak. Eh, sp.a has a not too distant history of corruption and scandals so I took that one as a pretty good diss. PTB-PvdA haven't been able to do anything so you can't mock them yet.
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Mar 20, 2018 10:22
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Sarko deserves the chair just for being who he is but in the absence of that a long jail term will have to do The only thing from Belgian politics that I recall was that time when that weird right wing guy called Di Rupo a pedo in parliament and everybody walked out
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Mar 20, 2018 12:15
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Belgian politics are really weird because there's no national party, all parties are duplicated into Flemish and Walloon parts. The population is about 60% Flemish, 40% Walloon. The representation in Parliament is about 53% Flemish, 33% Walloon, 14% mixed (Brussels). Theoretically, a single Flemish party could gain majority by itself, but it would have to get a Soviet-style score in its constituency. So it's pretty much impossible to get a government that's not a coalition. It could be a coalition between ideologically similar parties, like SP.A and PS, or VLD and MR, but it's quite unlikely they'd be enough. The current government is a coalition of 4 parties, three of which are Flemish.
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Mar 20, 2018 13:32
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and there are no real "national" debates, each party is only interested in communicating towards its own constituency, and gently caress the other guys. Exactly like the EU, it's great.
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Mar 20, 2018 13:41
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double nine posted:and there are no real "national" debates, each party is only interested in communicating towards its own constituency, and gently caress the other guys. Not true: the EU doesn't have a majority of its population with a minority complex
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Mar 20, 2018 14:56
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Cat Mattress posted:Belgian politics are really weird because there's no national party, all parties are duplicated into Flemish and Walloon parts. The population is about 60% Flemish, 40% Walloon. The representation in Parliament is about 53% Flemish, 33% Walloon, 14% mixed (Brussels). Theoretically, a single Flemish party could gain majority by itself, but it would have to get a Soviet-style score in its constituency. So it's pretty much impossible to get a government that's not a coalition. It could be a coalition between ideologically similar parties, like SP.A and PS, or VLD and MR, but it's quite unlikely they'd be enough. The current government is a coalition of 4 parties, three of which are Flemish. Half the ministers have to be from the French-speaking side and half from the Flesmish-speaking side, so even if one Flemish party got all the votes, they couldn't form a government.
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Mar 20, 2018 18:25
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outside bet: pvda wins absolute majority in both constituencies and being the only unitary party in the country, they could rule without a partner. the odds of that happening are exactly 10 million to one against. edit: here's another fun one. our F16s are getting old, the political debate has basically been "replace them with F-35s" vs "replace 'm with Eurofighters" vs "even though they didn't follow the official procedure, the french rafale would Now a rapport has surfaced that, given proper maintenance and refurbishments, the current F16 fleet can continue operations until ~2025. and either the defense minister knew but kept parliament uninformed of this option, or he didn't and then what the gently caress did he mismanage that he didn't know? https://twitter.com/FrDe2059/status/976169943698956288 double nine fucked around with this message at 21:17 on Mar 20, 2018 |
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Mar 20, 2018 18:41
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double nine posted:here's another fun one. our F16s are getting old, the political debate has basically been "replace them with F-35s" vs "replace 'm with Eurofighters" vs "even though they didn't follow the official procedure, the french rafale would Having a strong sense of déja vu here; originally the Netherlands was going to buy 85 F-35s for 6.2 billion euro (the tender process also being rigged as hell; our air force wanted the F-35 all along), by now we're getting 37 F-35s for 5.2 billion, and even that is questionable. Prepare for more surprises.
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Mar 20, 2018 21:38
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Pluskut Tukker posted:Having a strong sense of déja vu here; originally the Netherlands was going to buy 85 F-35s for 6.2 billion euro (the tender process also being rigged as hell; our air force wanted the F-35 all along), by now we're getting 37 F-35s for 5.2 billion, and even that is questionable. Prepare for more surprises. By 2040 you'll be on the hook to buy 2 F-35s for 4.99 billion with it being praised as "such a savings" over the current plan.
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Mar 20, 2018 21:43
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double nine posted:here's another fun one. our F16s are getting old, About the F-16, this is funny: http://www.lesoir.be/archive/recup/%252Fen-1989-un-f16-belge-s-ecrasait-accidentellement-en-nor_t-19920508-Z05AC3.html?noCookies=1 Quick summary: in 1989, an aircraft mechanic stole an F-16 from the Belgian air force during exercises in Norway and crashed on a nearby farm. Back then, the inquiry concluded the mechanic was drunk and suicidal. A recent plot twist, however, is that this incident might very well have been a botched attempt by a KGB or GRU mole to steal the aircraft to bring it back to the USSR so that its systems could be analyzed. Now the question is whether the Belgian secret services are better than the British ones, because the source of such juicy stories is Vladimir Komopliev, a Russian defector, and he has also denounced a few Russian spies. If he were in London he'd probably be already dead.
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Mar 21, 2018 00:20
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Pluskut Tukker posted:Having a strong sense of déja vu here; originally the Netherlands was going to buy 85 F-35s for 6.2 billion euro (the tender process also being rigged as hell; our air force wanted the F-35 all along), by now we're getting 37 F-35s for 5.2 billion, and even that is questionable. Prepare for more surprises. Lol that at any point the f-35 was expected to cost less than 100 million per unit.btw,the true grift of the f-35 is not the cost per plane (although its and overpriced piece of poo poo) its the service and maintenance contract.just buy Gripens or rafaeles folks.you can get 100 gripens with 5.2 billion
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Mar 21, 2018 11:37
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problem with adding rafales in the belgian context is that they explicitly hosed up following the procedure for government purchases, and after missing the deadline the french government has started offering bribes "this will add x jobs in your region, we'll make sure" which if the government would suddenly choose rafales it would - violate its own ruleset - leave at least the impression of corruption now, the recent F16 development offers an opportunity to redo the procurement procedure from completely, but belgium already has a poor reputation both in making decisions in big, political dossiers, as well as being a nato freerider. Delaying purchasing new planes would only worsen our reputation. Personally I think the eurofighter is the least bad of the available options, followed by a reboot of the whole procedure (in which rafale or saab would probably come out on top) double nine fucked around with this message at 11:50 on Mar 21, 2018 |
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Mar 21, 2018 11:48
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As I see it the F-35 serves basically two functions to non-US nations: A: Making yourself valuable to American congressmen and senators B: NATO free-rider penalty Would the Eurofighter or Jas be better for your airforce? Almost certainly. Does that really matter if any of the above applies to you? No.
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Mar 21, 2018 12:06
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double nine posted:outside bet: pvda wins absolute majority in both constituencies and being the only unitary party in the country, they could rule without a partner. You're going to be flying those jets until 2025 anyways because introducing a new jet takes a lot of time. Aside from Tranche 1 eurofighters (which are poo poo) there's not exactly a warehouse full of spare jets sitting around. Nevermind type conversion training for your entire Air Force. Which jet is the best fit depends as much on your political objectives as anything else. F35: -Program is a clusterfuck but the A variant will be ok. -Might buy you favors with US/continues US defense dependancy. -Would allow integration with RNLAF mirroring Belgian/Dutch Naval cooperation for cost savings. -Basicly improves on doing what the F16 is actually used for (rather than what the F16 was designed for) -Bunch of teething issues. Gripen NG -Cheapest (but not as cheap as some people think) -Has had problems with NATO integration in the past. -Small userbase -Might provide the most Independence, engine is American license though so would want to stock upon spares maybe. -Not actually in operation yet, though being developed based on the existing Gripen. Rafale -French customer support doesn't have a unblemished reputation (see them loving up the bidding process) -Would allow for integration with French Air force. -IIRC not (yet) compatible with a bunch of NATO weapons so that might mean buying new ones and throwing out your existing stockpile. Eurofighter. -Huge fuckup of a program. -Likely the most expensive. -Good for maintaining a European fighter jet industry . -Stalled developement process (noone willing to pay for developing the originally planned upgrades) -Great kinetic performance, the best dogfighter/fastest interceptor. -Integration with Luftwaffe. No pointy Jets: -The real aircraft shortage within non-US NATO is with tankers and transports. I would go for F35 or Rafale or Eurofighter in combination with integration. Because even if you could buy twice as many Gripens (which I find doubtful) you're still going to be just another small air force without enought critical mass to really do anything, of which Europe has too many already. Geopolitical considerations are more important for your actual security than some slightly better or worse jet anyways. Go Eurofighter if you want to go full Europhile I guess. Go gripen if you want out of the EU and NATO and make Belgium great again.
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Mar 21, 2018 13:07
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I've heard nothing but hilariously terrible things about the F-35 from anyone who goes into any detail, including massive flaws in the fundamental design. Australia's already buying them despite them having literally no use case from Australian soil.
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Mar 21, 2018 13:53
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You probably should mention as far as parts go that the F-35 has months of backlogs, and price inflation is probably not going to end anytime soon.
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Mar 21, 2018 13:56
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I"m pretty sure that everyone even remotely in power knows that the F35 is just our vassal tax to the US overlord.
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Mar 21, 2018 14:09
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Inescapable Duck posted:I've heard nothing but hilariously terrible things about the F-35 from anyone who goes into any detail, including massive flaws in the fundamental design. Australia's already buying them despite them having literally no use case from Australian soil. It's a more nuanced situation than that, the flaws are mainly the existence of the B variant, and how that holds back the A variant and another jet might or might not have been a better fit. The absolute doom and gloom you sometimes read (ausairpower.net) is hyperbolic though. The TFR airpower and AI aero threads are probably a more appropriate place for this, with people who have actual experience.
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Mar 21, 2018 14:17
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The Belgian tender is unusual in that they're not shopping just for a platform, but also for a strategic partnership. That's why it was addressed to governments rather than to manufacturers. That's also why Sweden declined to participate, as they made the decision to be a neutral country so they don't want to sell the Gripen if it means that they have to deploy Swedish forces to assist wherever the aircraft they sold are being deployed by their customers. For this reason, there's only one country that's a serious contender -- as far as operational support goes, what the USA can offer is far ahead, above, and beyond the means of anyone else. And that's why France decided to sidestep the tender entirely, to offer a much deeper partnership that the one requested by Belgium. The idea is to give things that the USA politically cannot give. Will it work? Probably not, to be honest. A similar approach has completely failed in Canada, where France and Italy jointly tried to sell the FREMM frigates to the Canadian government at half the price expected by the tender, and Canada quickly rejected this because "it wouldn't be fair to the other competitors". But Canada's procurement decisions are a long history of complete fuckups. Perhaps Belgium will be smarter? AlexanderCA posted:-IIRC not (yet) compatible with a bunch of NATO weapons so that might mean buying new ones and throwing out your existing stockpile. The weapon systems is built to NATO standards so it should be able to use any NATO standards-compliant weapon. The problem, as always, is integration cost -- mounting a bomb or a missile on a pylon is easy, interfacing the guidance computer on said weapon with the aircraft's computer is also pretty simple. But making all the test flights and test launches to validate the entire flight envelope with the weapon being mounted, and show that there are no separation issues during weapon release, that's expensive. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPTnmZ_HPAs Because of that, each aircraft is only certified for use with the weapons that their customers actually use. Nobody's going to pay for integration costs of materiel that's not going to be used on the aircraft just in case a hypothetical future customer would like it. And that also means that American aircraft like the F-35 are also incompatible with a bunch of NATO weapons. Of course, when the "not compatible with NATO" talking point is being brought up, what you really need to understand is "not integrated with US-made missiles". NATO is not just the US, though, and companies like MBDA and Sagem make NATO weapons too, by definition. (France, Italy, Germany, and the UK are all longstanding NATO members after all.) The F-16 and F-35 are incompatible with a bunch of NATO weapons like the MICA, HAMMER, Meteor, Storm Shadow, and Exocet, and nobody complains. The thing is, however, that all these weapons have a limited shelf life, so having to dispose of the stockpile to replace it with new weapons is something Belgium will have to do even if they end up just buying more F-16.
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Mar 21, 2018 14:18
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Ah, cool. That makes sense. I knew about the canted pylons on the shornet being one of those cases. Now there's a actually mediocre aircraft Australia bought (makes sense as a interim solution though).
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Mar 21, 2018 14:28
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ChainsawCharlie posted:Lol that at any point the f-35 was expected to cost less than 100 million per unit.btw,the true grift of the f-35 is not the cost per plane (although its and overpriced piece of poo poo) its the service and maintenance contract.just buy Gripens or rafaeles folks.you can get 100 gripens with 5.2 billion That's why the NL campaigned hard to get to build the service and maintenance center of at least the Dutch and Italian F35s, probably some other European countries as well. Also because the liberals could sell this as jobs jobs jobs.
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Mar 21, 2018 16:28
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I think this needs to be said: I hate jobs and I hate the people who purport to create them even more. When the socdems in Holland literally ran their campaign on a Mitt Romney slogan I knew their time was over.
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Mar 21, 2018 16:45
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| # ? May 25, 2024 22:59 |
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Debate & Discussion › European Politics: Jet Chat Radio
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