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BravestOfTheLamps posted:Rey has been educated, as her accent indicates, and she's learned how to pilot. That means there's a school and facilities that are simply not shown, and there's communication and traffic. She's working at a dead-end job at a dead-end place because she prefers it that way. That's why she's planning to go back. Instead she quickly becomes a powerful and influential figure as a successor to the Jedi theocracy over the course of days - a millionaire no longer temporarily embarrassed. This is a baseless assumption. An accent is not evidence, this is not a historical drama. Anakin was a natural pilot as a child and a slave, and Luke as a farm boy; the only education which is alluded to in Rey's case is scavenging ships and her knowledge of Unkar's modifications to the Falcon, implying that he provided some on-the-job training. In the Star Wars universe, based on the films, one may become a skilled pilot with an extremely limited education. You seem to be confusing Rey's belief that her family will return to Jakku for her with the classic defense of slavery on the basis that the slaves themselves preferred it to freedom. There might be something to that, in that her family is used as a metaphor for ideological identification with her circumstances on Jakku. quote:Instead she quickly becomes a powerful and influential figure as a successor to the Jedi theocracy over the course of days - a millionaire no longer temporarily embarrassed. This seems consistent with your objection based on her capacity to free herself, except now you object that obtaining power and influence means that, retroactively, she could not have previously been a slave or oppressed. The thread here seems to be, again, a deep objection to the depiction of independent agency on the part of the subaltern. What is wrong with a former slave becoming a powerful religious figure? Why put this in monetary terms, when she is not shown to value or acquire significant wealth?
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Mar 20, 2018 14:01
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Jewmanji posted:All British citizens are educated? What? Daisy Ridley is using her natural accent, and her accent indicates that she comes from a well-to-do background. Her mother's family has a loving compound surname. Nodosaur posted:Kylo explicitly says her parents sold her for drinking money. There’s a flashback of her begging her family to come back while Unkar Plutt starts to drag her away. How much clearer does this need to be? You're confusing apprenticeship with slavery. Unkar Plutt evidently wanted to train another scavenger, so she offered her parents money. Rey completed her apprenticeship long ago. Hodgepodge posted:This is a baseless assumption. An accent is not evidence, this is not a historical drama. "A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away..." We know that Daisy Ridley's accent was a specific choice, since the other British cast-members use American accents. What's very noticeable is that Rey does not actually socialize with any other scavengers, and feels fear and loathing towards them, especially when she's worried that she's going to become like that old scavenger woman. She talks bitterly about how the scavenger who tries to kidnap BB-8 doesn't "respect" other people, so she's feeling a lack of respect from other scavengers. She very clearly feels herself to be of a different class. But if she doesn't even remember life before the scavenger outpost on Jakku, where did she find education, training, and a sense of class superiority? The answer is that she's been away before and spent time in more affluent places, but eventually returned. She hadn't found her goal of becoming a Jedi queen yet. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 15:13 on Mar 20, 2018 |
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Mar 20, 2018 14:39
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Haha, I never realised that Daisy Ridley's great-uncle was Private Godfrey. How about that? 
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Mar 20, 2018 14:54
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:Daisy Ridley is using her natural accent, and her accent indicates that she comes from a well-to-do background. Her mother's family has a loving compound surname. Her conversations with Unkar involve him cutting her scavenging rations and him sending thugs to try to beat her up for BB-8. We don't really get a chance to see much of Jakku's social life, but from what we see we can conclude that Rey is very social and that trying to beat someone up with a quaterstaff is considered a friendly greeting.
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Mar 20, 2018 15:09
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Rey isn't a slave! She just owes her soul to the company store.
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Mar 20, 2018 15:57
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moist turtleneck posted:I'm still thinking about that instant space bread not surprising, it's the most interesting part of the giant snoozefest that is jakku
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Mar 20, 2018 16:18
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Every time I see that space bread rise I think to myself how tasty it looks. In other random Star Wars related musings that came up while I was strolling through Wookieepedia: DID YOU KNOW: All stormtroopers were armed with a thermal detonator attached to the back of their torso armor? That cylindrical thing at the small of their back is a goddamn mini nuke. They EACH have one. How dumb is that?
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Mar 20, 2018 16:33
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:Daisy Ridley is using her natural accent, and her accent indicates that she comes from a well-to-do background. Her mother's family has a loving compound surname. Her accent doesn’t indicate that. British accents in the original films were often coded for the imperial officer class and some other notable characters like Obi-Wan and Ackbar and Leia at the beginning of ANH (notably stormtroopers didn’t have British accidents). But to say that the actors real-world accent is meant to imply something about her educational background in the film is dumb. You are extrapolating against all evidence presented in the films
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Mar 20, 2018 16:36
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AndyElusive posted:Every time I see that space bread rise I think to myself how tasty it looks. No wonder that stormtrooper fossils are so rare
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Mar 20, 2018 16:37
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Favreau is actually creating Everybody Loves Rey's Mom, which is a spinoff series about Rey's parents turning tricks and conning all sorts of aliens to get that sweet space booze
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Mar 20, 2018 16:42
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Brother Entropy posted:not surprising, it's the most interesting part of the giant snoozefest that is jakku
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Mar 20, 2018 16:51
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Define “weight “ as you are using it .
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Mar 20, 2018 16:52
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Lord Hydronium posted:See, I think Jakku taking its time to establish some setting and atmosphere makes it the best part of the movie. Once they leave the movie takes a marked downturn as it starts going rapid-fire from plot point to plot point with very little weight to anything. yeah that's fair, jakku's setting and atmosphere just didn't do much for me pesronally on an objective level it probably is the best part of the film for the reasons you mentioned
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Mar 20, 2018 16:59
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Jewmanji posted:Her accent doesn’t indicate that. British accents in the original films were often coded for the imperial officer class and some other notable characters like Obi-Wan and Ackbar and Leia at the beginning of ANH (notably stormtroopers didn’t have British accidents). But to say that the actors real-world accent is meant to imply something about her educational background in the film is dumb. You are extrapolating against all evidence presented in the films The actor's performance informs her character. Combine the fact that she fears and hates the other scavengers, it's rather clear that she has a different background and feels no connection to them.
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Mar 20, 2018 17:19
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moist turtleneck posted:No wonder that stormtrooper fossils are so rare The rarest! 
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Mar 20, 2018 17:23
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euphronius posted:Define “weight “ as you are using it . Take my least favorite example of this: Finn leaving at Maz's castle. He has his moment with Rey and heads for the door. At this point the audience might be feeling something: maybe they're sad he's leaving, maybe they're worried for him or Rey, maybe they're writing Rey/Finn fanfic in their head. Whatever it is, the movie cuts right then - before the scene is even over - to Rey sensing the lightsaber, and we move on to that. Whatever emotion the Finn leaving scene might have been going for, whatever part registered with the audience, we're already on to the next bit, being asked to engage in this entirely different plot point with its own set of emotional cues. The movie has ceased to give a poo poo about Finn at the moment, so the audience isn't left with a lot of reason to either. Or the scene where Starkiller Base is first used. Compare the Death Star's first use in ANH: we've been told what the Death Star does the entire movie, and now it's aimed like a loaded gun at Alderaan. Even if we don't know or care about Alderaan, we're given a lot of dialogue to the effect that Leia does. The movie allows suspense to build; first Tarkin threatens to use it, then we think Leia's gotten a reprieve, then he goes through with it anyway. There's a buildup in the firing sequence itself, a release of tension as it fires, then a conclusion as Obi-Wan reacts to the destruction. It's a little mini-movie in itself, designed entirely to focus the audience on the impact of that one moment. It builds up naturally, and even though the actual event only takes seconds, it has a little capper afterwards to really drive home how big a deal this is. And the scene afterwards isn't a major plot point, it's a cute little breather moment with the droids and Chewie playing a game. We have time to let the previous events land before we have to deal with what comes next. Whereas Starkiller Base, we learn about it literally in the scene where it fires, there's no build-up of tension before the firing (it just sort of happens at the end of a speech), and after some nice shots of destruction we almost immediately jump to Rey dealing with her poo poo and the First Order invading and oh my god slow down JJ, it's not a race.
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Mar 20, 2018 17:34
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:The actor's performance informs her character. Combine the fact that she fears and hates the other scavengers, it's rather clear that she has a different background and feels no connection to them. I actually think it's fair to say the accent is meant to imply she's from another class in the context of Star Wars, but it's not proof. The implication was part of the subversion. I don't think we can make any assumptions about her character based on her accent now, except maybe that she once viewed herself as a class apart from the poverty she grew up in. I have no idea how much control each writer has over the overall story. Maybe JJ Abrams really intended her to be from a higher class, but The Last Jedi tells a story where that class origin is kind of assumed, but in fact is not true, putting Rey in a difficult emotional position.
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Mar 20, 2018 17:36
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Eiba posted:That's a decent reading of Force Awakens, and that is how Rey thinks of herself and how the audience is meant to think of Rey. But then we learn that factually it's not true, no matter how Rey thinks of herself. Rey then has to deal with the idea that she doen't live in a fairy tale world where the noble hero Luke will help restore her to her proper station. Luke's an rear end and her parents were poo poo nobodies and she has to find her own way. i mean, the only difference there in her assumptions and her real life is that she lives in a fairy tale world where she's the noble hero it is factually true that rey is above all those scavengers because she's so crazy powerful that even luke is afraid of her potential
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Mar 20, 2018 17:41
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Eiba posted:That's a decent reading of Force Awakens, and that is how Rey thinks of herself and how the audience is meant to think of Rey. But then we learn that factually it's not true, no matter how Rey thinks of herself. Rey then has to deal with the idea that she doen't live in a fairy tale world where the noble hero Luke will help restore her to her proper station. Luke's an rear end and her parents were poo poo nobodies and she has to find her own way. By the end of the film she's become the successor of the Jedi religion and the savior to the handful of people that remain of the Resistance. The movie does show that "factually it's not true," that she will be restored to her proper station, because the movie restores her to her proper station.
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Mar 20, 2018 17:46
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Do we know that "last active good guy force user and savior of the resistance" is her proper station? Or is that just where she found herself? Was it Destiny or happenstance?
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Mar 20, 2018 17:47
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Schwarzwald posted:The movie does show that "factually it's not true," that she will be restored to her proper station, because the movie restores her to her proper station. Edit: And there's a pretty important emotional bit where Kylo Ren is trying to make her feel worthless because of her "worthless" background to persuade her that this is his story and she should be a supporting character to him. She has to reject that and goes on to be the hero on her own, despite not being nobility or formally knighted by Luke or anything. She ends up where you might expect her to end up as the hero of the movie, but how she gets there is in contrast to the way these things are expected to work (even by Rey). Eiba fucked around with this message at 17:55 on Mar 20, 2018 |
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Mar 20, 2018 17:50
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jivjov posted:Do we know that "last active good guy force user and savior of the resistance" is her proper station? Or is that just where she found herself? Was it Destiny or happenstance? Eiba posted:It doesn't restore her to her proper station, it elevates her to where she ends up from a not-notable background as the result of who she is, rather than who her parents were. I don't feel either of these really address the point at hand. Rey's either correct in believing that she's more important than the scavengers or she isn't, and given that she ends the film with not inconsiderable magic and political power, then on a purely factual level, she's correct. That things happen differently than she may have expected is irrelevent.
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Mar 20, 2018 18:12
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Thank you for defining weight I agree JJ often cuts too quickly
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Mar 20, 2018 18:16
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She's the protagonist, but she is unjustified in thinking that she is the protagonist.
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Mar 20, 2018 18:32
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Luke Skywalker was a Gary Stu, prove me wrong!
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Mar 20, 2018 18:39
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moist turtleneck posted:I'm still thinking about that instant space bread I had something like that once It's REALLY good and I wish it was sold in more places
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Mar 20, 2018 19:23
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Jewmanji posted:Her accent doesn’t indicate that. British accents in the original films were often coded for the imperial officer class and some other notable characters like Obi-Wan and Ackbar and Leia at the beginning of ANH (notably stormtroopers didn’t have British accidents). But to say that the actors real-world accent is meant to imply something about her educational background in the film is dumb. You are extrapolating against all evidence presented in the films Akbar has a British accent?
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Mar 20, 2018 22:29
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Can I buy a 3’x6’ canvas print of the hyperspace ramming silent moment yet or will I have to go do it all myself That’s the only part of TLJ that really stuck with me as particularly cool.
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Mar 20, 2018 22:40
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Rey and the junk monster she buys that dehydrated bread from both have British accents. I’m extrapolating from there that their planet is a British planet.
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Mar 20, 2018 23:26
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AndyElusive posted:Every time I see that space bread rise I think to myself how tasty it looks. thermal detonators are just grenades, and 'soliders carry grenades' isn't dumb at all, really
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Mar 20, 2018 23:30
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banned from Starbucks posted:Akbar has a British accent? All fish in ships are British in origin
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Mar 21, 2018 00:21
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In TLJ when she was talking about Kylo Ren "getting stronger" you could tell she was forcing herself to pronounce the t's fully and it was a li'le jarring
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Mar 21, 2018 00:34
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Jewmanji posted:All fish in ships are British in origin 
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Mar 21, 2018 00:36
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ungulateman posted:thermal detonators are just grenades, and 'soliders carry grenades' isn't dumb at all, really Only they're not. quote:Dash Rendar: It's a thermal detonator. […] If you let go without disarming the deadman's switch first, it goes off. Let's give one to every Stormtrooper.
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Mar 21, 2018 00:46
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Have we seen one go off in Canon yet? That description is from Legends
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Mar 21, 2018 00:56
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AndyElusive posted:Only they're not. Dash Rendar.
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Mar 21, 2018 01:15
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Dash Rendar needs to be nucanon
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Mar 21, 2018 02:09
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Less Rendar More Dengar
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Mar 21, 2018 02:17
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One of the BTS features that comes with TLJ's home release says that those dice in the Falcon were what Han used to win the ship. It's all connected, y'all.
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Mar 21, 2018 03:51
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The MSJ posted:One of the BTS features that comes with TLJ's home release says that those dice in the Falcon were what Han used to win the ship. Who the gently caress uses dice in space poker? That's like saying somebody won a game of monopoly with scrabble tiles.
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Mar 21, 2018 04:01
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