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Baronjutter posted:Like I've learned so much actual history and geography from playing paradox games, but surviving mars seems to put style and gameplay above even a handwave to what any sort of realistic initial colonization of mars could possibly look like. Paradox is just the publisher, the game was developed by Haemimont, the same developers that did Tropico's 3 through 5. and it has a similar level or realism, but imo Tropico is actually a bit more fun in the long term due to more variety and a better sense of humor. Surviving Mars is cooler looking though, it's not as cartoony as the Tropico series at all, the visual design is probably the best thing about it Earwicker fucked around with this message at 21:46 on Mar 20, 2018 |
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Mar 20, 2018 21:44
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A friend let me play their copy of Surviving Mars for a few hours, and it was surprisingly fun to start. Establishing the basic infrastructure with a handful of drones and limited resources was awesome. Very much felt like carving a little piece of civilization out of an untamed frontier, and getting the first dome ready felt like a real accomplishment. Then the first twelve colonists moved in, and I mostly just let the game run on max speed until the mandatory 12 day "prove you can sustain a colony" ban on bringing in more colonists ran out. Once I could import more colonists, things got interesting again. I filled up my first dome and very quickly needed a second, my population's exploding and I've finally got enough people to work all the basic factories.... and then I realize I have no idea what to do next. About 30 Sols in and I can now produce everything I need on Mars. I guess eventually I'll need to move my mines when their deposits run out, but I could just set the game to max speed and walk away from the computer for an hour and be fine. I can produce every material I need on Mars now, so the only reason to trade with Earth is to make money to outsource research with and even then that's just speeding up something I could get by fastforwarding. I don't even need to import colonists, the nurseries are packed with kids. Up until now I've always had a goal. First I had to get water and oxygen, then I had to start making fuel, then I had to bring in the first colonists and make sure we could grow enough food, then I had to get a basic industrial base to produce polymers and machine parts and electronics locally..... and now there's nothing. I'm a few hours in with about 40 colonists in 2 basic domes and the game is over. I have everything I need. I've successfully Survived Mars. I could build some more domes, but why? So I can have two polymer factories instead of one? I don't need more polymers. I don't need anything. There's only expansion for the sake of expansion and making my numbers bigger. Beyond that, the worker assignment AI is super broken, my botanists are working in the mine and my geologists are working at the farm. You can manually assign people to jobs that match their specialties but it's already hell having to manage 30 people, it would be impossible trying to manage a larger colony. And colonists can't really travel between domes from what I can tell, so you can't have a housing dome where everybody sleeps and relaxes and then a farm or factory dome next door that they walk to during their shift to work in. Every dome has to have housing AND amenities AND whatever productive activity you need so they all end up being 85% the same basic buildings repeated over and over with one farm or one factory or one mine differentiating them. So yeah TL;DR Surviving Mars was really fun at first but the game is over a couple hours in. Just buy Planetbase instead, it costs half as much and lasts five times as long. E: Oh, I did love the music. The radio stations are a super neat little feature, and I totally fell in love with the Space Western one (Martian Frontier, I think?). So yeah the music is great, and the Chinese man playing frontier music and talking about how much he loves baseball is amazing. Just a shame the rest of the game can't live up to it. Crazycryodude fucked around with this message at 22:14 on Mar 20, 2018 |
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Mar 20, 2018 22:08
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Crazycryodude posted:Beyond that, the worker assignment AI is super broken, my botanists are working in the mine and my geologists are working at the farm. You can manually assign people to jobs that match their specialties but it's already hell having to manage 30 people, you aren't supposed to do this btw. the worker distribution algorithm is to ensure coverage in all of your available shifts, not to match the best worker for the job. it gets especially wonky when you have a big mismatch between jobs and colonists but gets better when you have more colonists to spread around. so much of this game is a complete sandtrap for min/maxers and people who want to ruthlessly optimize everything. just turn on the red frontier radio station and focus on expanding, your colonists will be fine Crazycryodude posted:I'm a few hours in with about 40 colonists in 2 basic domes and the game is over. I have everything I need. I've successfully Survived Mars. I could build some more domes, but why? So I can have two polymer factories instead of one? I don't need more polymers. I don't need anything. There's only expansion for the sake of expansion and making my numbers bigger. this game is a city builder at heart, just with some weird sci fi twists. this is like saying "i've put down some residential, some commercial, some industrial, i have utilities, my tax revenue is going up. i have successfully Sim City'd"
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Mar 20, 2018 22:13
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boner confessor posted:this game is a city builder at heart, just with some weird sci fi twists. this is like saying "i've put down some residential, some commercial, some industrial, i have utilities, my tax revenue is going up. i have successfully Sim City'd" I disagree. With the idea that good cuitybuilders end like this, I mean. Cities: Skylines is one of my favorite games of all time and I have like 500 hours in it, I love city builders. Surviving Mars certainly wants to be a city builder, but it's terrible at it. There's nothing to build. In Sim City or C:S there's always something you don't have that needs doing. People are angrily tweeting at me about missing needs, or that part of town I built at the start when I was broke needs to be redeveloped with proper emergency coverage, or I need to rework the public transit system, or a million other things. I'm not feeling that on Mars.
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Mar 20, 2018 22:33
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Crazycryodude posted:I disagree. With the idea that good cuitybuilders end like this, I mean. Cities: Skylines is one of my favorite games of all time and I have like 500 hours in it, I love city builders. Surviving Mars certainly wants to be a city builder, but it's terrible at it. There's nothing to build. In Sim City or C:S there's always something you don't have that needs doing. People are angrily tweeting at me about missing needs, or that part of town I built at the start when I was broke needs to be redeveloped with proper emergency coverage, or I need to rework the public transit system, or a million other things. I'm not feeling that on Mars. to be fair, you admitted that you stopped playing in the very early game. like you never got to the point where you were juggling all the citizen needs like you describe doing here in other games i'm not trying to convince you to pick the game back up or anything, you do you, i just dont get your criticism here and i think a lot of the criticism this game is getting is because it's a bit genre dissonant
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Mar 20, 2018 22:39
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Earwicker posted:Paradox is just the publisher, the game was developed by Haemimont, the same developers that did Tropico's 3 through 5. and it has a similar level or realism, but imo Tropico is actually a bit more fun in the long term due to more variety and a better sense of humor. Different strokes I guess but the art has been a big enough turn off that I discounted and ignored the game until now. Tropical buildings look like buildings but the mars stuff looks so insanely unrealistic and cartoony I can't take it seriously. Those domes are just awful and silly.
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Mar 20, 2018 22:52
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Baronjutter posted:the mars stuff looks so insanely unrealistic and cartoony I can't take it seriously. Those domes are just awful and silly.
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Mar 20, 2018 22:57
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:This is why I have completely ignore the game. I'm not saying I want hard scifi, but happy-go-lucky looking robots and absurd looking buildings and poo poo just makes me scream.
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Mar 20, 2018 23:21
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just out of curiosity, what artstyle would you prefer if we keep the scenario of a mars colonisation game? Genuinely curious, because I can't really imagine anything other than an artstyle inspired by 50's/60's vision of space colonization such as by McCall
double nine fucked around with this message at 23:38 on Mar 20, 2018 |
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Mar 20, 2018 23:30
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:This is why I have completely ignore the game. I'm not saying I want hard scifi, but happy-go-lucky looking robots and absurd looking buildings and poo poo just makes me scream. double nine posted:just out of curiosity, what artstyle would you prefer if we keep the scenario of a mars colonisation game? this will always be one of the best representations of an airless-world colony in video games  a high-res version of the outpost 2 aesthetic would work very well in a martian context
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Mar 20, 2018 23:33
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double nine posted:just out of curiosity, what artstyle would you prefer if we keep the scenario of a mars colonisation game?  This is not it. Sleek lines, neat paint jobs, silly looking eyes? I expect a functional looking upgraded Mars Rover. When I think buildings I think as size-to-functional efficient as possible. Not huge domes right out the gate.
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Mar 20, 2018 23:40
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otoh colonizing planets is inherently unrealistic given that a space station will hold just as many people for cheaper since you dont have to worry about escaping gravity
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Mar 20, 2018 23:46
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Agean90 posted:otoh colonizing planets is inherently unrealistic given that a space station will hold just as many people for cheaper since you dont have to worry about escaping gravity Yeah realism and planetary colonisation don't go together. Hope you like space stations and asteroid mining!
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Mar 20, 2018 23:50
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Agean90 posted:otoh colonizing planets is inherently unrealistic given that a space station will hold just as many people for cheaper since you dont have to worry about escaping gravity For what it's worth, I don't really have a problem with the art-style of Surviving Mars, but I sympathize with the realism crowd. That shot of the guy dunking in the promo was exactly the sort of frivolousness that I suspect permeates the game, and would be a turnoff if Haemimont didn't already equal No Buy for me. E: Clarity. Nut to Butt fucked around with this message at 00:25 on Mar 21, 2018 |
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Mar 21, 2018 00:03
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all of Haemimont's games have some degree of a frivolous style, I get some people aren't into that but personally I don't think it's any less appropriate for Mars than it is for, say, a Caribbean island or ancient Rome. realism has never been their thing
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Mar 21, 2018 00:08
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RabidWeasel posted:Yeah realism and planetary colonisation don't go together. Hope you like space stations and asteroid mining! This is actually the game I would like. Really spergy space habitat and production chain management sort if thing with a real focus on how expensive and fragile everything is. But even in a mars game just extrapolate from actual renderings from NASA moon/mars base ideas. No huge transparent magic domes. Should look like outpost maybe with a late game option for underground domes. But the key is for everything to look like a reasonable extrapolation of actual current habitat design.
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Mar 21, 2018 00:16
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Baronjutter posted:This is actually the game I would like. Really spergy space habitat and production chain management sort if thing with a real focus on how expensive and fragile everything is. Yeah, but then your base would just look like a bunch of lumpy spots on the surface, `cause I think they need to bury the habitat under a pile of dirt to protect from radiation due to the thin atmosphere/weak magnetic field. Realistic colonization would be less of a city builder and more of a small scale game like Rimworld. But with way less drama because it's trained professionals instead of stranded sci-fi people. Also there wouldn't be a production chain because 98% of everything would get shipped in from Earth at great expense.
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Mar 21, 2018 00:30
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:I havent put much thought into it but when I think "Colonizing Mars" I think "poo poo, I know how hard it is to put things into space, and thus by extension, it is hard to get things to Mars". Everything is about cost, so I would expect an aesthetic that reflects appreciating the expense of building something with the purpose of sending it to mars. Baronjutter posted:But even in a mars game just extrapolate from actual renderings from NASA moon/mars base ideas. No huge transparent magic domes. Should look like outpost maybe with a late game option for underground domes. NASA and Lockheed Martin actually have plans for a "Mars Base Camp" but it's an orbiting lab with one lander, not a permanent surface base, and not meant for long-term residence let alone colonization. but as others have pointed out, planetary colonization is in and of itself a bit more of a fantastic scenario. groups of people being motivated to permanently move to another planet and raise kids and future generations there, building schools and grocery stores and art galleries and casinos etc. is a very different situation than early space exploration and will indeed probably somewhat different, less spartan aesthetics (though not what we see in this game I agree)
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Mar 21, 2018 00:41
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Crazycryodude posted:I disagree. With the idea that good cuitybuilders end like this, I mean. Cities: Skylines is one of my favorite games of all time and I have like 500 hours in it, I love city builders. This may not be the thread to ask this in, but is it possible to just build villages or towns in Skylines? I have no interest in making a huge metropolis, but I’ve always liked charming little one street light towns like they have in middle-of-no-where Kansas or Nebraska. Can those types of places do well in the game or do they die if they aren’t near a real city?
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Mar 21, 2018 00:42
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Hot Dog Day #82 posted:This may not be the thread to ask this in, but is it possible to just build villages or towns in Skylines? I have no interest in making a huge metropolis, but I’ve always liked charming little one street light towns like they have in middle-of-no-where Kansas or Nebraska. Can those types of places do well in the game or do they die if they aren’t near a real city? Yeah 100% there's people who make absolutely jaw dropping fantastic rural landscapes.   I have no idea how to link reddit videos but here's a nice "gif" of a small american town https://www.reddit.com/r/CitiesSkylines/comments/812n93/this_sub_needs_more_gifs_ill_start/ Lots of hyper-detailed little european villages and towns   
Baronjutter fucked around with this message at 01:03 on Mar 21, 2018 |
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Mar 21, 2018 00:56
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is that what the vanilla game looks like or is that using mods?
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Mar 21, 2018 01:31
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Earwicker posted:is that what the vanilla game looks like or is that using mods? Mods. The base game doesn't have near that kind of building variety. You'll never hurt for mods, though, there are tons of them.
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Mar 21, 2018 01:40
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The Cities Skylines workshop is a magical place where you can find literally anything you're looking for. I'm pretty sure my workshop collection is more GB than that actual base game.
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Mar 21, 2018 01:59
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Fintilgin posted:Realistic colonization would be less of a city builder and more of a small scale game like Rimworld. there's a mars mod for rimworld that was kind of decent but hard as gently caress
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Mar 21, 2018 02:01
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People posting about Mars colonization posted:Really spergy space habitat and production chain management...No huge transparent magic domes...bury the habitat under a pile of dirt to protect from radiation due to the thin atmosphere/weak magnetic field....planetary colonization is in and of itself a bit more of a fantastic scenario....building schools and grocery stores and art galleries and casinos etc. is a very different situation than early space exploration and will indeed probably somewhat different, less spartan aesthetics (though not what we see in this game I agree) Early game: Centered around your landing vehicle and initial installations, game clock moves slowly because the amount of vital decisions/time is high. The physical size of the area you interact with is limited. All about setting up a safe underground base. Early-mid game: Centered around your largely underground base, game clock moves faster to maintain the level of decision-making/real time. The physical area you're interacting with is larger. Challenge is to create a settlement not reliant on Earth for basic necessities. Late-mid game: Still centered around your underground base. Game clock moves faster, physical area expands. All about producing results that justify your colony to the people funding you back on Earth, while keeping your people happy. Base starts to tentatively pop out of the ground, and now includes proper recreational areas. Late game: Finally, the game moves on to the phase where your operation is so big and secure that it now has to accommodate people who aren't down with any kind of spartan living - meaning artificial magnetic shields, localized (and obviously domed) terraforming, anti-meteor defense systems and poo poo like that. Essentially, the point where your base becomes a town. The idea being that the super sci-fi stuff is your reward for not losing your base to demons, not for making some drones fly around Mars for a week or whatever. Fintilgin posted:But with way less drama because it's trained professionals instead of stranded sci-fi people.
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Mar 21, 2018 08:33
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I don't care about whether the aesthetic is realistic but whether it looks good and man the aesthetic of Surviving Mars looks insanely ugly.
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Mar 21, 2018 09:18
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Some of the greatest drama happens between "professionals". Astronaut attempts to kidnap Air Force officer over love triangle with another astronaut.
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Mar 21, 2018 10:24
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Tomn posted:Astronaut attempts to kidnap Air Force officer over love triangle with another astronaut. Without clicking the link, this is the one who drove cross-country in a diaper, right edit: of course
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Mar 21, 2018 10:25
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Gobblecoque posted:I don't care about whether the aesthetic is realistic but whether it looks good and man the aesthetic of Surviving Mars looks insanely ugly.  Basically, what they did was make a flat, domed park, then just drop buildings into it like it was some standard suburbia. The results are predictably underwhelming. On the right, my idea was that you initially had a strip mine eating down into Mars, while building up a (mostly underground) base/manufacturing plant around it. Eventually, a dome is erected over the whole site, and a multi-layered city is built on top, criss-crossed by monorails and poo poo. I really think upping the scale like that and abandoning the logic of Earth-based city planning would go a long way in terms of supporting the chosen aesthetic. From the perspective of actually making that idea work in-game, it seems to me to essentially just be question being able to build underground, build on top of existing buildings, and being able to draw monorail lines at different levels that connect horizontally and vertically.
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Mar 21, 2018 13:17
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I'm getting real tempted to give Cities: Skylines another go. I didn't really feel challenged by it but I could got on board with just making a landscape look pretty with mods.
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Mar 21, 2018 13:27
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Cities is not a "challenge" game, it's quite literally a Bansai Tree simulator. If you keep that in mind just go nuts with it. Hell, turn on unlimited funds and just try to keep yourself in the green.
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Mar 21, 2018 13:35
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I think anno 2205 did the space colony aesthetic well. Dwellings are cramped-looking boxes, industry are utilitarian-looking with naked moving parts, the hubs are huge vehicles that unfold, and there is the force-field shimmer above it all. Ironically atmospheric.
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Mar 21, 2018 13:35
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Gamerofthegame posted:Cities is not a "challenge" game, it's quite literally a Bansai Tree simulator. If you keep that in mind just go nuts with it. Hell, turn on unlimited funds and just try to keep yourself in the green. That's why I got bored with it pretty quick. I want more sim in my city sim. Not in a real life urban development sense, but in the fun SimCity sense.
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Mar 21, 2018 15:39
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C:S is a great reason to download more RAM.
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Mar 21, 2018 15:57
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 Just let me have St Basil's in space you bastards!
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Mar 21, 2018 17:40
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Walton Simons posted:I'm getting real tempted to give Cities: Skylines another go. I didn't really feel challenged by it but I could got on board with just making a landscape look pretty with mods. Time to pimp out my ol' Cities Skyline Mars map anew I think. http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=413390689 Haven't updated in three years so I have no idea if it is still compatible.    jHave fun! Maybe. /edit Map is based on Utopia Planitia's HiRise Topographical data. /edit2 If there IS a problem, just tell me and I'll see what I can do about it. I wouldn't mind updating it to be current if anything is problematic. Popoto fucked around with this message at 20:12 on Mar 21, 2018 |
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Mar 21, 2018 20:04
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Avid CK2 player here... I noticed last night that EU4 is on sale for like ten bucks. In a general sense, how are these two different from each other (outside of the time period)? I’ve been considering getting EU4 for a while now, but I’m not sure if it offers similar enough gameplay to get the same sort of enjoyment from it as I do CK2.
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Mar 22, 2018 13:52
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Gin_Rummy posted:Avid CK2 player here... I noticed last night that EU4 is on sale for like ten bucks. In a general sense, how are these two different from each other (outside of the time period)? I’ve been considering getting EU4 for a while now, but I’m not sure if it offers similar enough gameplay to get the same sort of enjoyment from it as I do CK2. CK2 is a weird sort of RPG/strategy game, focusing in your ruler's character specifically, where EU4 is more of a straight strategy game, focusing in the entire nation. It also rarely dabbles in internal politics and is mostly about managing foreign policy. Where CK2 is about wrangling your vassals and maybe a few outside rulers to unite an area and achieve your goals, EU4 is about manipulating your neighbors/allies the right way.
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Mar 22, 2018 14:14
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Yeah in EU4 you are the state; in CKII you are a person. In EU4 you have things like standing armies, trade, naval warfare, and colonizing that are not a part of CKII. EU4 is more of a map painting game than CKII.
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Mar 22, 2018 14:21
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Kuiperdolin posted:I think anno 2205 did the space colony aesthetic well. Dwellings are cramped-looking boxes, industry are utilitarian-looking with naked moving parts, the hubs are huge vehicles that unfold, and there is the force-field shimmer above it all. Ironically atmospheric. Bitches better have my figs. I assume as all anno games are the same people still want figs in 2205
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Mar 22, 2018 14:33
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