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Raygereio posted:In what way is it worse? From what little I played of FO4 the melee combat mechanics seemed to be pretty much exactly the same as Skyrim's. For me the big thing was that everything swung so slowly and there were no perks that increased melee attack speed. It was agonizing compared to New Vegas where you could spec yourself out to be a complete monster at melee. You can tell in FO4 they put all of the work into the gunplay and the melee was a complete afterthought.
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Mar 20, 2018 14:00
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Nasgate posted:Don't the redguards have some sort of sword magic? This reminds me of that. Sword singing is basically that you get a lightsaber by mouthing the sound effects. Vwmm vwmm vwmm.
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Mar 20, 2018 14:03
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Rupert Buttermilk posted:Yes, I'm aware. I should have put in that the new one has "regular-thinking person's mouselook". There's even a 'click to attack' mode now! I played the gently caress out of daggerfall and killed like three mice just from swinging like a motherfucker.
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Mar 20, 2018 14:09
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I really do appreciate the idea of moving my mouse the way I want to attack, I think it's really neat, but goddamn, sometimes I just wanna click a motherfucker to death.
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CFox posted:For me the big thing was that everything swung so slowly and there were no perks that increased melee attack speed. It was agonizing compared to New Vegas where you could spec yourself out to be a complete monster at melee. You can tell in FO4 they put all of the work into the gunplay and the melee was a complete afterthought. the worst part about melee in FO4 is that anyone can block anything with their bare hands. Your rocket powered hammer or literal loving chainsaw can be easily parried by a random emanciated raider's unprotected hands.
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Mar 20, 2018 14:18
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Cat Mattress posted:Sword singing is basically that you get a lightsaber by mouthing the sound effects. Vwmm vwmm vwmm. Ignore what I said earlier. Just release skyrim with this, and Bethesda will release the greatest game that will ever be made. Society could continue for millennia, but none would surpass it. IGN review: Its alright 8/10 lobster22221 fucked around with this message at 14:23 on Mar 20, 2018 |
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Mar 20, 2018 14:21
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Cat Mattress posted:Sword singing is basically that you get a lightsaber by mouthing the sound effects. Vwmm vwmm vwmm. Also the lightsaber is made of your soul.
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Mar 20, 2018 18:18
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Nasgate posted:Don't the redguards have some sort of sword magic? This reminds me of that. They may have also sunk most of their own home continent by hitting it with a really powerful sword singing technique. 
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Mar 21, 2018 01:27
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Actually it was their version of a nuke created by one of their elite sword-singers 
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Mar 21, 2018 07:29
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The biggest story to gameplay dissonance is still how all special form of magic are described as exotic over the top anime powers when you read about them in the books but then the devs don’t have the resources to make them as interesting when they’re actually in the game. I’d love it if they allowed an action game developer to do a more focused TES spinoff with the appropriate over the top bullshit fully depicted
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Mar 21, 2018 07:53
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so dark souls but even more anime combat-y?
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Mar 21, 2018 08:45
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double nine posted:so dark souls but even more anime combat-y? More Metal Gear Rising.
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Mar 21, 2018 09:07
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Nina posted:The biggest story to gameplay dissonance is still how all special form of magic are described as exotic over the top anime powers when you read about them in the books but then the devs don’t have the resources to make them as interesting when they’re actually in the game. I’d love it if they allowed an action game developer to do a more focused TES spinoff with the appropriate over the top bullshit fully depicted I'd say the issue is the other way around; nobody seems to acknowledge the fact that even the most basic idiot mage can make spells to mind control prestigious members of society or instantly open locks.
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Mar 21, 2018 09:08
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Neurolimal posted:I'd say the issue is the other way around; nobody seems to acknowledge the fact that even the most basic idiot mage can make spells to mind control prestigious members of society or instantly open locks. the most basic, idiot mages in TES games are too dumb to do things like not drown in a well or not fall to their deaths.
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Mar 21, 2018 09:35
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If we were to portray lore magic 1:1 we’d end up with something like Asura’s Wrath. As proven by Cyrus, real men really do belong on the moon
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Mar 21, 2018 09:50
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Scyantific posted:Actually it was their version of a nuke created by one of their elite sword-singers To be precise, it's implied their swordsmen were so loving awesome and good at cutting things apart that they could literally split the atom in a single swing of a sword. And not just split the atom, but presumably split enough atoms during a war that the explosion was so massive that it literally shattered their homeland. The Redguard that are seen in the games are the descendants of the ones that were presumably far enough away or lucky enough to survive Hiroshima 2.0: This Time It's An Entire Continent. Nasgate posted:the most basic, idiot mages in TES games are too dumb to do things like not drown in a well or not fall to their deaths. Mages can do a lot of stuff that is pretty impressive. We've seen immortal mages, a dude who literally invented the concept of Lichdom, a race of presumably mage-like technologists that were so good at loving with reality they made a gigantic mecha-god, another mage that actually pulled off what the technologists wanted to do through nothing but magic and ascended to a higher plane while being able to still interact with the world, and generally all sorts of other stuff. No one mentions them because they either keep quiet about it, their creations turned on them and wiped them out, or in the games so far they're chilling on a literal doom mountain or something equally terrifying that makes everyone just go "Maybe if we ignore him he'll leave us alone?". It's just that when mages get dumb, they tend to get dumb. Case in point, the guy who made the Boots of Blinding Speed was an incredibly stupid enchanter. Ditto for the guy that made that wings of icarus spell. He figured out how to go up, but then didn't consider how to handle going down when the spell wore off. Archonex fucked around with this message at 10:08 on Mar 21, 2018 |
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Mar 21, 2018 09:54
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Sword Singing, Thu’um and Tonal Architecture are really the trifecta of nigh-omnipotent bullshit that can do anything. In a way it was entirely understandable for ol’ Jurgen to decide maybe it’s for the better for all nords not to be potential walking WMDs
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Mar 21, 2018 10:01
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The Thu'um is fairly well represented in-game, I think (if you use Children of the Sky as a guide). A common Shout is to knock enemies back, a skilled Tongue can move by Shouting, Ulfric was gagged in the intro so he wouldn't Shout, and the Nord racial ability is to make enemies flee by shouting. There's a lot of details that aren't ingame (like looting tongues from your enemies, which could have been cool), but the broad strokes are there. I guess that's skyrim.txt How does the worship of Talos as a Divine correspond to the Aurbis wheel? He's not on there, so he shouldn't count, right?
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Mar 21, 2018 10:10
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Nina posted:Sword Singing, Thu’um and Tonal Architecture are really the trifecta of nigh-omnipotent bullshit that can do anything. In a way it was entirely understandable for ol’ Jurgen to decide maybe it’s for the better for all nords not to be potential walking WMDs What with the importance of sound in the lore, I love that bards are still just annoying jackasses.
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Mar 21, 2018 10:12
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It also helps that most of the games don't show what a late stage _____ is like. You're always the newbie hero-adventurer, starting out and finding your place in the world. And yet at the end of many of the games you're often literally capable of ripping apart entire cities single-handedly. For instance: One of the last base game shouts the Dragonborn gets can literally obliterate the population of entire towns by calling down a destructive storm and rain of lightning bolts to murder everything in sight. Also, every daedric god wants him on their side and will outright just hand over their artifacts for the opportunity for him to help their cause. This is despite the fact that he's got a built in clause to get out of handing over his soul. He's also canonically somewhere in the range of being like half as strong as a daedric god at the end of the game, and will only get stronger as time goes on. The Nerevar is literally immortal and can't be afflicted with disease on top of killing a guy who was basically a parasitic god. And assuming that that one fired writer's apocalyptic nazi wankfest isn't canon (And all indications suggest it isn't.) he has a good chance to actually outlive the game's version of reality. The MC of Oblivion is literally a Daedric god. Literally. He's got an army (two, potentially) of daedric creatures at his command, along with an entire world of followers and the appropriate powers there-in. The thing is, the games never let us get to play around with what happens after we get established as (Insert overpowered type of character here.). Though the stuff we have to read suggests what they can do later on in their lives is even more overpowered than what we can do at the end of the games. Archonex fucked around with this message at 10:22 on Mar 21, 2018 |
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Mar 21, 2018 10:13
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Archonex posted:And assuming that that one fired writer's apocalyptic nazi wankfest isn't canon (And all indications suggest it isn't.)
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Mar 21, 2018 10:21
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Dwesa posted:What nazi wankfest? Ugh, I forget his name. It's one of the guys that helped create Morrowind's background lore and later quit/was fired and kept writing his own fan fiction for the setting on his own website despite no one asking him too. Some of the more  stuff he's come up with is a bit of a conversational topic in the Elder Scrolls lore nerd community. From what, I remember, highlights included him having supposedly locked himself in a room for days on end until he came up with a good chunk of Vivec's teachings in a crazed haze, literally depicting Elder Scrolls IN SPACE in his later writings with the nazi elves (IE: Altmer) actually turning out to be morally correct in wanting to purge all the other species, the Dunmer living on the moon, Pelinal Whitestrake being a terminator-esque elf hating cyborg from the future, and all sorts of other nutty poo poo like one of ESO's queen's leading one of the player factions secretly being a machine intelligence being sent back in time (Which ESO does not give any credit to being real. Like, at all.) to rule the races. TL;DR: He comes off as a bit crazy, and from everything i've read about him he had an unhealthy obsession with the setting. Edit: I just remembered his last name! It was Kirkbride! Fun fact: His post-firing/quitting work is so crazy that it was featured on the "What do you mean it wasn't made by someone on drugs?" page on TVTropes. Archonex fucked around with this message at 10:55 on Mar 21, 2018 |
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Mar 21, 2018 10:27
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Ah yes, Michael Kirkbride. Edit: TES's version of Deepak Chopra-level random nonsense generator. Dwesa fucked around with this message at 10:37 on Mar 21, 2018 |
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Mar 21, 2018 10:33
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Meyers-Briggs Testicle posted:sir this is a m'aiqdonalds drive thru
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Mar 21, 2018 10:35
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When someone's there to rein him in a bit Kirkbride's official stuff is pretty drat good. From what I understand the guy was basically an alcoholic when he wrote a lot of the lore for Morrowind. I've never read anything though that suggests he's sympathetic towards Nazi views. Can you elaborate further?
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Mar 21, 2018 10:36
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Entropy238 posted:When someone's there to rein him in a bit Kirkbride's official stuff is pretty drat good. From what I understand the guy was basically an alcoholic when he wrote a lot of the lore for Morrowind. So, it requires really getting deep down the rabbit hole of all the stuff he's written and it's going to be a rough description of all of it since it's been a long time since I read anything of his. But some of the later stuff he wrote starts to go into how the Altmer turned out to actually really be right that the existence of the human and other non-mer races were holding them back from ascending (or something like that). Hence why the Altmer of his later works were sorta-kinda justified in going on a genocidal purge since the other races were holding them back from reaching their true potential. Like a bunch of modern day neo-nazi works it's danced around just enough that you can't really say it's a definite thing. But anyone familiar with those sorts of works that reads it often can't help but squirm uncomfortably in their chair as they put two and two together when they get through all the crazy sci-fi bullshit and reach the big twist in his take on the setting. He might not personally be sympathetic to nazi's, but intentionally or not the Altmer being justified in wanting to murder all the other races over racial differences/perceived inferiority hit a lot of uncomfortable notes with people familiar with more realistic literature done by literal nazi's of the past. I wish I had the old thread from another forum that went through his stuff line by line and explained why it was so distressing, but it's been literally years and I have no idea where to even start digging it up. Archonex fucked around with this message at 10:45 on Mar 21, 2018 |
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Mar 21, 2018 10:40
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My two cents on that: No, the Thalmor aren't correct, because they don't have all the information. Yes, if they unmake reality as it is, we all go back to being immortal spirits. However, this is totally missing the point of reality, which is to give our spirits the possibility of transcending what we were before and becoming more than even the gods - of achieving CHIM.
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Mar 21, 2018 10:55
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I understand that racists like to talk in dogwhistles, but seen in the context of the lore of the game as a whole – which to be clear apes from various different cultures and religions – I don't see how having a relatively small (I think?) proportion of a race of people that hold nazi like beliefs featured in the games should be considered an issue? It is fantasy after all.
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Mar 21, 2018 11:07
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Entropy238 posted:I understand that racists like to talk in dogwhistles, but seen in the context of the lore of the game as a whole – which to be clear apes from various different cultures and religions – I don't see how having a relatively small (I think?) proportion of a race of people that hold nazi like beliefs featured in the games should be considered an issue? It is when the meta-physics of the setting support those bigot's beliefs. "Bigots exist in the setting" isn't a contentious issue. Plenty of settings have things like that as a feature. They aren't right though. "The things the bigots believe are the truth due to how the setting secretly functions." is a contentious issue when applied to some former writer basically writing out his own lore and rules on how the setting works. That essentially results in a rewrite of the setting to support some pretty hosed up views. Which to some basically equates to Elder Scrolls neo-nazi fanfiction, intentional or not. Archonex fucked around with this message at 11:20 on Mar 21, 2018 |
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Mar 21, 2018 11:13
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I remember that Kirkbride said in an interview or an AMA that the basis the Thalmor are operating from are dead wrong and if their plans go through everyone is going to have a bad time, including them. He didn't specify how things will turn out bad, but when you are dealing with idiots trying to unravel reality it can't be good. That didn't sound much like a nazi wankfest.
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Mar 21, 2018 11:19
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radintorov posted:I remember that Kirkbride said in an interview or an AMA that the basis the Thalmor are operating from are dead wrong and if their plans go through everyone is going to have a bad time, including them. He didn't specify how things will turn out bad, but when you are dealing with idiots trying to unravel reality it can't be good. Sounds like he went back on some of what he wrote then. Good on him, if so.
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Mar 21, 2018 11:20
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Archonex posted:It is when the meta-physics of the setting support those bigot's beliefs. I think it has to be seen in context. The Altmer are maybe/perhaps right that the destruction of mankind would restore them to their Mythic state. From the perspective of Talos worshippers and men, it is painted as a bad for them. I don't really see the issue.
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Mar 21, 2018 11:21
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Archonex posted:It is when the meta-physics of the setting support those bigot's beliefs. Can you be more specific? Because I am trying to understand when the Thalmor perspective was meta-physically correct.
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Mar 21, 2018 11:46
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Archonex posted:Sounds like he went back on some of what he wrote then. Good on him, if so. I mean, even if the Thalmor are right and that unmaking reality will revert things to how they were before Lorkhan did his thing, it's a weird to leap to claim that that makes what they do okay.. Sure, Thalmor themselves may claim it's just, but off course they would think that. No one thinks of themselves as evil. Kirkbride is a bit crazy (possibly due to over using drugs), definitely needs an editor because the majority of his output is crap and/or nonsense and has a (possibly unhealthy) obsession with a franchise owned by a company he was fired from about 15 years ago. But there really isn't anything concrete that indicates the dude's a nazi sympathizer. Raygereio fucked around with this message at 12:29 on Mar 21, 2018 |
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Mar 21, 2018 11:51
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Raygereio posted:Kirkbride is a bit crazy (possibly due to over using drugs), definitely needs an editor because the majority of his output is crap and/or nonsense and has a (possibly unhealthy) obsession with a franchise owned by a company he was fired from about 12 years ago. But there really isn't anything concrete that indicates the dude's a nazi sympathizer. I mean, to be fair, they keep bringing him back, and he was the lead lore dude for a good while.
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Mar 21, 2018 11:52
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Elder Scrolls lore is only good when its batshit crazy, and he helps provide that.
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Mar 21, 2018 12:03
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Magnusth posted:and he was the lead lore dude for a good while. TES's development was always very much a team effort with the most important three people being Michael Kirkbride, Todd Howard and Kurt Kuhlmann.
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Mar 21, 2018 12:04
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When are the Thalmor ever implied to be anything more than metaphysically regressive jerks too cowardly to embrace Lorkhan’s gift. They’re basically Evangelion villains
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Mar 21, 2018 12:20
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My Michael Kirkbride story is that my cousin married a guy with that name, and later he apparently pretended to be gay so that they would get divorced. I mean, what's the deeeaaaaaal with Michael Kirkbrides? Anyway, it'd be really neat if they were the same dude, but I know that they are not.
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Mar 21, 2018 12:59
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The Thalmor are right in that through what they are doing they could theoretically unmake reality and return to a state of immortal spirit. They are wrong however in that being a good thing. The Thalmor are so obsessed on what they used to be that they refuse to see what they could become.
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Mar 21, 2018 13:14
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Rupert Buttermilk posted:I mean, what's the deeeaaaaaal with Michael Kirkbrides? Anyway, it'd be really neat if they were the same dude, but I know that they are not. All Michael Kirkbrides being the same Michael Kirkbride sounds like a reasonably Kirkbridian premise and you should consider adopting it.
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Mar 21, 2018 13:15
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