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Serephina posted:Is it more or less of a shitshow that Civ6's combat? I'm talking single player here. I didn't play the game for very long and I'm sure there's some redeeming features to it, but it might be the worst strategy gameplay I've ever experienced. You input commands as if you control units directly (I.E. use offensive abilities on this enemy, or use a support ability in this area), but it's up to the whims of the AI whether your units will do as they're told. Combat is slow as hell, and the semi-automation doesn't actually do anything to speed it up. I think there's also some kind of reinforcement system, which lets you pull in units from way off, so there's always a chance of getting hosed over because the enemy had loads of units somewhere deep in the FoW.
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Mar 22, 2018 06:43
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twistedmentat posted:Is the patch that came down the one that fixes the Polders? Polders got "fixed" in the previous patch.
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Mar 22, 2018 07:37
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Zulily Zoetrope posted:I didn't play the game for very long and I'm sure there's some redeeming features to it, but it might be the worst strategy gameplay I've ever experienced. You input commands as if you control units directly (I.E. use offensive abilities on this enemy, or use a support ability in this area), but it's up to the whims of the AI whether your units will do as they're told. Combat is slow as hell, and the semi-automation doesn't actually do anything to speed it up. I think there's also some kind of reinforcement system, which lets you pull in units from way off, so there's always a chance of getting hosed over because the enemy had loads of units somewhere deep in the FoW. Sorry I was being facetious, I've played the everloving crap out of EL and I love it. It's main fault is that the AI isn't competitive, with a host of other small grumbles. It's still a great game imo! I'd actually mis-read StraightWhiteShark's post as "Endless Space 2" which I'd completely agree is a bit odd. But EL? The combat is fine. It's very reminiscent of AoW. You can always insta-combat, or turn the speed up to 4x and semi-automate it and have it be done in 15s. Which is fine for a game about extremely expensive stacks. It's actually completely unfair to compare the two; units in EL have like 6 different stats and interact exotically; Civ units have 2 stats and just bump into each other. Different games, apples and oranges.
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Mar 22, 2018 08:07
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Roland Jones posted:I mean, I was expecting it, but we should probably do something about Byzant. They're the only one with a religion and have already converted 3/5 people. And somehow all the Great Prophets are gone, which I only just noticed because the religions tab still says 1/4 founded so I didn't even pay attention to the Great Person screen when looking at religious stuff, so my plan of trying to get an emergency religion together and making inquisitors to defend myself and stop a religious victory isn't actually an option. Unless someone's planning something clever, Byzant dies ASAP, or every religious unit that comes for the last two of us gets stomped, the game's already over. There are already apostles in my lands, too, and I sent almost all my military units down to defend against you, so I'm not sure how much my efforts here will amount to. Yeah, that's a good point, let's see if we can do something about that issue.  Also, yes, mistakes were made. I like to take turns during my breakfast, which does not always include a coffee, so I definitely feel that.
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Mar 22, 2018 08:56
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I found EL's combat long and tedious without the depth to really justify it. In practice it didn't feel that much different from Civ 5 or 6's combat, except that it removed a lot of world clutter since groups of units were represented by a single unit.
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Mar 22, 2018 09:21
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GrandpaPants posted:I found EL's combat long and tedious without the depth to really justify it. In practice it didn't feel that much different from Civ 5 or 6's combat, except that it removed a lot of world clutter since groups of units were represented by a single unit. Yeah, everything had like 12 stats and 6 equipment slots and none of it mattered because the AI was just as bad. Either you rammed things together and hit automate and the stronger guys won, or you abused the hell out of the AI and you won but it took forever to do it. Also the random starting positions could gently caress you over by sticking one of your units on the other side of a mountain or something.
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Mar 22, 2018 13:21
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The tactical combat is surely the second worst thing about EL (#1 being the AI) It is a lot better in AoW 3, but to me it also got boring pretty fast and then I was just using auto-combat. But I guess AoW is just not for me. Ive being trying to like it since shadow magic, but it always falls flat on me. I love HoMM and I love Civ-like games for very different reasons, I always seems to me like AoW is trying to do both and fails on both: the tactical combat alone is not that fun and interesting, and then the city building and expanding and diplomacy is very shallow and not very exciting either
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Mar 22, 2018 13:36
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Serephina posted:Sorry I was being facetious, I've played the everloving crap out of EL and I love it. It's main fault is that the AI isn't competitive, with a host of other small grumbles. It's still a great game imo! I'd actually mis-read StraightWhiteShark's post as "Endless Space 2" which I'd completely agree is a bit odd. Is semi-automated combat different from the one where you give complete orders and the AI decides if it wants to obey? All I remember is that and instant combat, the latter of which would always result in my stack losing tons of units or wiping entirely.
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Mar 22, 2018 13:39
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I actually really enjoyed the combat in EL but it sure did slow the game down and I don't want it anywhere near my Civ
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Mar 22, 2018 14:00
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Serephina posted:Is it more or less of a shitshow that Civ6's combat? I'm talking single player here. Civ 6's combat is pretty weak and tends towards unit carpets (same as 5; not ensuring complete kills always so they could have "true" ranged combat mechanic was a mistake). EL's is much worse balanced and also takes forever to resolve. The EL AI is also pretty comparable in terms of competence to Civ 6 AI because there are too many rules it doesn't know how to exploit.
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Mar 22, 2018 14:11
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Maybe just steal the combat from Call To Power 2 or something.Elias_Maluco posted:It is a lot better in AoW 3, but to me it also got boring pretty fast and then I was just using auto-combat. But I guess AoW is just not for me. Ive being trying to like it since shadow magic, but it always falls flat on me. I love HoMM and I love Civ-like games for very different reasons, I always seems to me like AoW is trying to do both and fails on both: the tactical combat alone is not that fun and interesting, and then the city building and expanding and diplomacy is very shallow and not very exciting either
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Mar 22, 2018 14:27
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If your units are running off being weird in EL, it's because you've given them an order they're not able to follow, ie attack something outside of their move range. So after the order failure, they check their behavior, aggro/defensive/hold pos, and the default is aggro, so they wander over and hit whatever they can. Paying close attention to initiative order and not letting the melee units run ahead willy nilly will generally result in units following your commands pin-point. You can queue move&attack with ctl. You can have the AI play for you, but it's dumb, and you can quick-combat if you vastly outnumber them. I play at 4x combat speed, just to speed things up since the animations are pretty, but slow. The tactical combat is fine, functional, and probably a lot more tense in multiplayer. EL has been built around it, it's part of the game and it's appeal. If people think it's too much effort, and rather would have combat be a more abstracted function of a 4X's empire's industrial power, with straightforward number-bumping to keep things simple, that's fine also. Civ has it, I like civ, there's nothing wrong with it (AI issues aside). I'm sorry for this derail, back to civ6 talk.
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Mar 22, 2018 14:29
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So did the game actually get patched today? I didn't see any updates in my logs or Steam downloads.
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Mar 22, 2018 14:41
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Apparently it was an erroneously pushed patch, lmao.
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Mar 22, 2018 15:21
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Lol what a poo poo show.
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Mar 22, 2018 15:39
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That would explain why, when I went to check my Steam updates after seeing people here talking about a patch, I found the game in my list of games that require updates but aren't queued (had to deal with a bad connection for a long time so between that and other stuff I disabled automatic updates), but when I queued it it downloaded nothing and finished instantly instead of giving one of the 3 GB patches people mentioned.
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Mar 22, 2018 15:53
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The combat in EL felt like an afterthought yet you still needed to be vaguely engaged in it. I just auto calculated the whole lot. At least Age of Wonders (by the way, number 4 is being announced in May I think) had a much bigger focus on the combat. Either go whole hog or abstract it, don't go halves.
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Mar 22, 2018 15:57
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EL combat is.. interesting, but tolerable because it had the automate combat results button. The unique tactics approach was fun the first few times / in early game if you need to kite to survive. After that it just drags and makes MP turns take far too long in my opinion. Haven’t done much pvp mp so I could see that being more fun maybe..?
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Mar 22, 2018 16:03
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Roland Jones posted:This is a bit of a tangent, but jeez. Every time I load up my turns in the Midsummer and CSRV games I'm struck by how bad my decisions were. These games started over half a year ago so I've improved a lot since then, but still, wow. What the hell was I thinking? I mean, I wasted so much time trying to retake Dion instead of cutting my losses and expanding more heavily on other fronts. Um, also, you know that last prophet? I may have forgotten to switch my wildcard from great prophet points for a while is all I’m sayin’. Guess I can try to spam as many missionaries as possible soon and try to stem the tide.
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Mar 22, 2018 17:35
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What's everyone's dumbest mistake in their MP game
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Mar 22, 2018 18:25
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JeremoudCorbynejad posted:What's everyone's dumbest mistake in their MP game Let's see. In my first MP game I picked a fight with Alexander, who wasn't even my direct neighbor, instead of going for one of the two people next to me who I'd have easily crushed as I was Cyrus, because my talking with them made me feel bad about attacking them. While I actually was winning at first, I soon got destroyed, eventually dying when one of the two people I decided to not attack backstabbed me and stole my last city. That was pretty dumb. Also, in CSRV, for some reason I took Stewardship on my religion despite it being on an island map where I will never, ever build a commercial hub. My first choice was already taken and this was before the patch that added more good beliefs, but still, what the hell. ibntumart posted:I mean, I wasted so much time trying to retake Dion instead of cutting my losses and expanding more heavily on other fronts. Yeah, the fight over Dion was pretty bad on both our parts really. Both of us could have put our efforts towards far more productive things. And I should have conquered Vilnius first, but for a long time I had an aversion to conquering city-states, even what might be the most useless one in the game. Also, I had a feeling someone had to have a Great Prophet lying around; even if the AI took one of them and died with it, there still should be two others somewhere. I have a couple holy sites I made before I realized the prophets were gone despite not being used, so if you can convert the cities they're in I'll try to help fight back there.
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Mar 22, 2018 18:40
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JeremoudCorbynejad posted:What's everyone's dumbest mistake in their MP game I settled near some pigs in the tundra. There is no redeeming quality about the location. I think I made a settler by accident and felt sorry for having them just stand around.
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Mar 22, 2018 19:08
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JeremoudCorbynejad posted:What's everyone's dumbest mistake in their MP game Not opening the religious tab in the Autumn game as Kongo because, ‘I don’t need to worry about religion yay!’ Only to have Roland win just the other day unimpeded! I probably could have taken him out if I noticed that, but I honestly don’t know if I had the time. Regret is definitely bulking up and planning for another 30 turns+ before the game ended,i nstead of just sniping the nearest civ to me in Science output soon as I got Infantry researched. I probably already waited to long at that point, so really ignoring religion and playing as Kongo. Also, that was a fun game overall, congrats Roland! Definitely crushed us. I got rather distracted by Egypt for our 20-turn war, I should have counterattacked but honestly thought I could win a space race so was amping up for that. I didn’t even meet Gorgo until the final 5 turns due to how the map was split, which was a weird experience I have to say. I probably should’ve sent scouts out before the free Apostle’s Roland’s religion printed for me. fwiw I didn’t use any of the charges, so I knew enough about religion to know not to help him win, just not to check if he needed a good ole’ crusade sent his way. onesixtwo fucked around with this message at 20:41 on Mar 22, 2018 |
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Mar 22, 2018 20:38
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Anyone playing with Quo's Combined Tweaks? Looking for ways to make the game more interesting given the AI kind of kneecapping it.
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Mar 22, 2018 20:59
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onesixtwo posted:Also, that was a fun game overall, congrats Roland! Definitely crushed us. I got rather distracted by Egypt for our 20-turn war Attacking Kongo immediately after smashing Poland was a bit optimistic.
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Mar 23, 2018 02:02
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Worst mp mistake: Dominating a game and my friend kept cryptically telling me "if you can win you should just win" and I was like "naahh instead of science victory in gonna settle a beef with The Spanish by dropping a nuke on them THEN winning science next turn." I drive my carrier within range hit end turn and dump to score screen and my friend stole the science victory from under me. He had been buidling 3 parts at in 3 citied and constantly worker sacrificing to get production up while I was lazily building the last bit to finish it up lmao. We looked at it and I had been tall poppied by the AI that it is possible due to sabotage attacks I may not have even been able to beat him but I didn't even put up a fight I thought I was so ahead.
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Mar 23, 2018 02:17
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At what difficulty does the computer start getting advantages? Is it still anything above prince?
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Mar 23, 2018 05:41
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Byzantine posted:Attacking Kongo immediately after smashing Poland was a bit optimistic. Oh yeah, I remember that. Having played Kongo in a previous game and had their UU tank crossbow attacks like it was nothing after they got both Tortoise and Battlecry (which is pretty easy, since they can probably survive up to that point and promote through the damage they take), while you were relying on your unique ranged units mostly, my personal estimation of the battle was "if Kongo gets their ngao mbeba out in time they survive, if they don't they don't," basically. Without being extremely far ahead, an army dependent on ranged units just can't deal with those things. chaosapiant posted:At what difficulty does the computer start getting advantages? Is it still anything above prince? Yep.
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Mar 23, 2018 05:49
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So, I was a very late adopter since I had a hunch that release-day Civ would be a mess, so I got it in the Humble Bundle a small while ago and did a playthrough, documenting all of my first impressions as they arose. My first run was as Rome, planted near a desert with fertile food tiles. I thought this was fine, so I played it out, not knowing that food-sans-production is useless. I gave up around when I saw how long it was going to take to build an industrial district. My second game was as Germany, and it planted me one tile away from having 3 stone resoures in my starting 8 tiles. So yea, different games.Civ6 impressions posted:Game is hard to read the terrain; "Ugly", but not aesthetically There where a few along the lines of "WHERE IS X??" that I deleted when I found what I was looking for. In retrospect, I shouldn't have deleted them since it showed some UI issues.
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Mar 24, 2018 12:14
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Yeah, all that sounds about right. I like the map design (outside of districts), but I'll pop into strategic view if I actually need to parse the map.
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Mar 24, 2018 12:25
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"Just researched feudalism- can't get 50% bonus to roman legions anymore, THANKS" I mean, that's accurate, the development of feudalism in the late empire crippled the old legionary system.
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Mar 24, 2018 13:39
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turboraton posted:Wait there's a web version of diplomacy? That board game is cool. Slightly shameless self-promotion: You may be aware of the Game of Thrones board game, which is heavily inspired by Diplomacy. Some of us (including myself) consider it strategically deeper, though it does come with a rather large rules overhead. Should it appeal to you, you might want to join the pbf that I organize (currently two turns away from a game ending, so you won't have to wait too long).
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Mar 24, 2018 13:49
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Roland Jones posted:Let's see. In my first MP game I picked a fight with Alexander, who wasn't even my direct neighbor, instead of going for one of the two people next to me who I'd have easily crushed as I was Cyrus, because my talking with them made me feel bad about attacking them. While I actually was winning at first, I soon got destroyed, eventually dying when one of the two people I decided to not attack backstabbed me and stole my last city. That was pretty dumb. I think your confidence that you would have "easily crushed" the legions of Rome is a bit misplaced  And hey, considering what happened in the Autumn* goon game, I think you definitely learned your lesson. I won't be quoting Thucydides to anyone in a multiplayer game again. *summer? I don't know. The second one we played. You know the one.
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Mar 24, 2018 15:35
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Serephina posted:So, I was a very late adopter since I had a hunch that release-day Civ would be a mess, so I got it in the Humble Bundle a small while ago and did a playthrough, documenting all of my first impressions as they arose. My first run was as Rome, planted near a desert with fertile food tiles. I thought this was fine, so I played it out, not knowing that food-sans-production is useless. I gave up around when I saw how long it was going to take to build an industrial district. My second game was as Germany, and it planted me one tile away from having 3 stone resoures in my starting 8 tiles. So yea, different games. Barbarians are only bad in quite specific circumstances. They're one of those things that either totally and utterly dominates your early game (meaning: you're near horses) or they're meaningless. Actually a small provisio to that - when it's end game and your army is miles away and suddenly a barbarian musketman turns up and starts burning everything from that one tile of fog of war in the tundra.
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Mar 24, 2018 16:02
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Taear posted:Actually a small provisio to that - when it's end game and your army is miles away and suddenly a barbarian musketman turns up and starts burning everything from that one tile of fog of war in the tundra. how DARE you not listen carefully for the barb camp spawn sound on every interturn. some nerve on this guy
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Mar 24, 2018 16:24
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Byzantine posted:"Just researched feudalism- can't get 50% bonus to roman legions anymore, THANKS" Get your history out of my game mechanics
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Mar 24, 2018 21:47
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Prav posted:how DARE you not listen carefully for the barb camp spawn sound on every interturn. some nerve on this guy Hey now, I hear it every time. I just have no idea where it is and am not spending ages trying to work it out!
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Mar 24, 2018 21:52
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Darkrenown posted:Get your history out of my game mechanics One day I'm gonna post my idea for stacks and you'll be livid
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Mar 24, 2018 22:41
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TipTow posted:I think your confidence that you would have "easily crushed" the legions of Rome is a bit misplaced That was Summer, me being Kongo and you England. Autumn, I was Indonesia and you weren't in it. At least, not the Autumn game I was in. Also, fair point, though I really waited too long to attack too. I should have gone for you or Gandhi's throat immediately and tried to overwhelm you with the surprise Fall of Babylon blitz. Or killed Lisbon, then gone for one of you two. Topic of Persian stuff, in at least one game I'm in, Immortals are broken. Now they seem to be unable to make melee attacks, but they seem to use their melee strength for those attacks still? I'm not entirely sure what's going on, but in a game where I conquered several cities with them I've been forced to just sit around their final city and wait while a scout I bought outright in my nearest city runs over for the capture because they lost the melee attack they had. I was planning on attacking Kongo next, too; if they have their ngao mbeba and the attacks still count as ranged for those purposes too, that might not work out as well as I had hoped. Unfortunate, and very annoying.
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Mar 25, 2018 01:23
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Yet another PYDT game here: Rise and Fall: Classical Era Start All DLCS The password is Who wants to live forever? Well, me for starters Roland Jones posted:Also, I had a feeling someone had to have a Great Prophet lying around; even if the AI took one of them and died with it, there still should be two others somewhere. I have a couple holy sites I made before I realized the prophets were gone despite not being used, so if you can convert the cities they're in I'll try to help fight back there. I'll make those my priority once I get some missionaries cranked out.
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Mar 25, 2018 05:39
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