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I'm generally sympathetic to fan translators who are doing a difficult job for free and who generally aren't in contact with the original authors, but I find it very strange when professional translations leave honorifics in. It should usually be possible to work around them. That said there was a pretty important voice related scene in Umineko that I didn't pick up on until someone explained the Japanese version to me, and honorifics didn't really help with that.
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Mar 22, 2018 13:58
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| # ? May 29, 2024 07:44 |
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The most important thing that some translator fail to do is translating the Meaning of the text. That includes the meaning behind honorific. Though it can be the other way depend on individual case. But for a reading text, the goal is to write something that the reader can understand even if it mean rewriting it into an understandable way in English. It is complex though. Sensei could be translate to teacher, but martial art teacher would be Master or something. Master in Eng also mean the owner of the rich mansion in some case. I am mosty pissed at romanization of names for pronounciation sake instead context of the names. But that’s my personal ick with it.
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Mar 22, 2018 17:14
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FractalSandwich posted:Have you ever seriously read a line of dialogue and thought "I cannot tell what the relationship between these characters is without the original honorific"? It's more a case of misrepresentation in a translation of what the honorific actually means. Take this article as a great example. As the translator notes, Sir isn't quite right and doesn't get across the tone, but Bro would probably be a little too informal and lacking in reverence, so they stuck to aniki and included a note in the loading screens.
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Mar 22, 2018 17:45
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The sad state of lacking a proper word in English that fits the meaning.
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Mar 22, 2018 18:09
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Ah, nakama
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Mar 22, 2018 18:23
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Even the literally same word can carry a different feeling and tone between two languages. The English word "love" is a good example, it's a very short and easy word and can even be thrown around very casually depending on context, but in some other languages and cultures it's much rarer and weightier. Something like a person finishing a phone call with "I love you" is fairly normal in English, but can sound really out of place in a different language. I don't envy translators who work across language groups while also holding themselves to very high standards,
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Mar 22, 2018 18:34
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this feels appropriate https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvNxgHTWIlo
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Mar 22, 2018 18:36
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I can't think of a single instance where actually having honorifics actually made a difference in my understanding of a scene or character relationships. Like, I don't need to see a "-san" to realize that two people aren't the closest people in the world, or a "-sempai" to realize that someone is an upperclassman/senior worker. You don't even need to write around it, readers will implicitly pick it up from context. The only thing honorifics ever matter for translation is if character explicitly ask for the other person to change how they address them. And even this can be dealt with through just a little thought.
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Mar 22, 2018 19:00
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Japanese also have a gender neutral third person pronoun to hide a person’s gender for plot reason. English, he/she.
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Mar 22, 2018 19:18
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They is used more and more to refer to someone in the third person.
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Mar 22, 2018 19:28
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There's also the common "I'm gonna go from calling you by your last name to saying your first name" trope that doesn't quite hit well without previous knowledge. A-Ayukawa-san 
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Mar 22, 2018 19:42
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I guess that could be done by calling an abbreviation of ones name? “Hi, Washington!” —-> “Hi, Wash’!”
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Mar 22, 2018 19:47
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MegaZeroX posted:They is used more and more to refer to someone in the third person. The singular they has been a thing since the 14th century, even.
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Mar 22, 2018 20:34
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MegaZeroX posted:They is used more and more to refer to someone in the third person. I thought the problem with that is that if you switch to "they" in English then it becomes obvious that you're hiding something.
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Mar 22, 2018 20:54
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Is not like English breaks its rule all the time...
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Mar 22, 2018 21:10
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mycot posted:I thought the problem with that is that if you switch to "they" in English then it becomes obvious that you're hiding something. Maybe in some dialects, but where I come from it's a perfectly normal thing to say casually. "You'll never believe what happened to my friend Carmen, right? So, they were walking on the sidewalk. as you do, and. . ."
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Mar 22, 2018 22:01
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I've never understood why people fuss so much about how honorifics "should" be removed because normal readers couldn't possibly understand them, because I used to live on a diet of fantasy novels that always added made-up stuff to language and you were expected to be capable of understanding this sort of thing from context. I'm fine with removing them if they're not explicitly important to the story, especially if the story isn't set in Japan anyway, I just don't think it's a crime to leave them in, either. My knowledge of Japanese is pitifully low and yet there are still many times when I've understood nuances of what was being said from the voice acting that were completely lost in the translation, and because my knowledge of the language is so bad it's often the honorifics I'm picking up on. Too many VNs have important information coded in who's addressing whom how, and when they change those modes, and an awful lot of bad translations become nonsensical when they refer to someone using a friend's first name, when they were using first names all along! (Of course, translators that bad would probably do a terrible job even with the -san still in place. How on earth do you translate 'miko' as 'angel'???)
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Mar 23, 2018 00:39
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Nyaa posted:Japanese also have a gender neutral third person pronoun to hide a person’s gender for plot reason. FractalSandwich fucked around with this message at 00:54 on Mar 23, 2018 |
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Mar 23, 2018 00:52
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And of course then there's the way that Japanese has a whole bunch of different first-person pronouns that have no equivalent in English. Translating a story with multiple narrators and frequent perspective shifts where the reader's supposed to figure out who's saying what by what pronouns they're using for themselves is always a fun time.
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Mar 23, 2018 01:19
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Thuryl posted:And of course then there's the way that Japanese has a whole bunch of different first-person pronouns that have no equivalent in English. Translating a story with multiple narrators and frequent perspective shifts where the reader's supposed to figure out who's saying what by what pronouns they're using for themselves is always a fun time. "I" have encountered this problem, yes.
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Mar 23, 2018 01:25
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So I'm playing through Amnesia Memories. I just finished my third world and while Clover (my first) ended pretty happily, after the last two endings, I feel super cheated and very angry. Oh they weren't even premature 'bad endings." I got a couple of those two, frickin' ukyo. What i have gotten, looking at a guide, is three "Normal" Endings. Only, Kent's is the one and only ending that felt like a real ending. Shin and Toma were both basically bad endings because you don't remember, nothing is resolved, and it just gives you a few lines of text saying "and time passed, now it's all over." I've calmed down some now but after the second time this happened to me I was pretty livid. I did my best to get the Good Ending, failed, and was rewarded with this bullshit. This is only my second VN. Hakuoki wasn't this stringent and even in the ending where Sanan died, it felt like an ending. It wasn't happy but it didn't build up to something then smack me in the face and say "nope, you get nothing" like this game did. Are a lot of VN's like this? Where, unless I follow some guide and utterly ruin my experience by removing all emotional investment from what's happening, I'll end up with bullshit endings?
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Mar 23, 2018 05:41
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Yes What I usually do is just read through something once or maybe twice making the choices I want to make and then just refer to a guide for everything else.
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Mar 23, 2018 06:12
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Curiously, the PS4 port of Clannad has English support and a glossary of Japanese cultural information. https://gematsu.com/2018/03/clannad-ps4-english-text-support
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Mar 23, 2018 09:13
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Sounds like they just ported over all the English content from the Steam release then. It's kind of weird that they are doing the PS4 release, its 2018, hasn't anyone remotely interested in Clannad probably read it by now? I guess the 1080p art is the biggest selling point.
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Mar 23, 2018 09:58
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astr0man posted:Sounds like they just ported over all the English content from the Steam release then. It's kind of weird that they are doing the PS4 release, its 2018, hasn't anyone remotely interested in Clannad probably read it by now? I guess the 1080p art is the biggest selling point. I haven't read a single work by Key yet. I probably should, since I am a big fan of tragedy and I think that's what their thing is (I generally have no idea)
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Mar 23, 2018 12:35
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I really don't like Clannad's art style, or the vibes it gives off in general.
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Mar 23, 2018 12:53
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Uguu~
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Mar 23, 2018 12:57
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That's Clannad right....?
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Mar 23, 2018 12:57
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I think it's a different Key game but yeah basically.
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Mar 23, 2018 13:12
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Yeap, that's the trademark style of the lady who goes by the pseudonym Hinoue Itaru.
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Mar 23, 2018 13:22
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Heroic Yoshimitsu posted:I really don't like Clannad's art style, or the vibes it gives off in general.
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Mar 23, 2018 13:27
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I started with little buster, and it’s great. Maybe start from this. The anime ver also have a pretty full coverage, but you will miss out on the fun mini games in the vn.
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Mar 23, 2018 13:30
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Key stuff is 'fine', didn't even start out as porn like a lot of popular stuff as far as I'm aware. The character designs for earlier stuff is awful though and not in in an amusing original Higurashi sprites kind of way, in an all the girls look like bug eyed aliens way.
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Mar 23, 2018 13:31
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I liked Planetarian a billion years ago, at least. Not sure if it'd ring the same with me today.
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Mar 23, 2018 13:38
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The CLANNAD VN is arguably the "best" that style has looked but it's still not great. The best I can say is that you can get used to it. The anime cleaned up their designs considerably and is yet another reason why it's why I prefer that version of it. As a story/VN in general it's still what I probably consider to be Key's best. It's not re-inventing the wheel, you know exactly what you're getting when you go into it, and it has plenty of flaws/asspulls as with any Key work, but I think in the end it's still the most consistently enjoyable start-to-finish (compared to Little Busters or Rewrite which has wiiiiiild swings of quality and have large potions that feel completely superfluous) of their works and there are still some moments that I consider quite impactful/memorable even if you can see a lot of it coming a mile away. Good sountrack as usual too.
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Mar 23, 2018 13:40
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NikkolasKing posted:So I'm playing through Amnesia Memories. I just finished my third world and while Clover (my first) ended pretty happily, after the last two endings, I feel super cheated and very angry. Sorry you are having a bad experience  Something you can do if you just wanna see good endings is abuse the rewind feature. Most games (and I think Amnesia did this but it's been a while) will have a menu option to check your romance level. So if you make a wrong choice, just rewind and make the other choice. In that game I would suggest saving often too because of all the weird endings where you get killed.
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Mar 23, 2018 14:40
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speaking of key, they have a new game coming in june and art actually looks... OK?
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Mar 23, 2018 14:49
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don't read clannad just watch it
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Mar 23, 2018 14:57
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Cake Attack posted:don't read clannad just watch it agreed
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Mar 23, 2018 16:19
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| # ? May 29, 2024 07:44 |
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https://twitter.com/Aeana/status/977192612422672389?s=19
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Mar 23, 2018 16:33
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