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FlamingLiberal posted:Who is that woman with the electric whip? Everyone is stumped, but Surge has been mooted as a possibility, even though she generally has blue hair. (Chalk up another actress of East Asian descent with dyed hair!)
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Mar 22, 2018 18:48
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Barry Convex posted:I can believe that A4 may actually be Evans' last film, but "for now, he has no plans" is not "official" and /film is exaggerating his remarks for clickbait purposes. Yeah, considering how little Marvel has announced post A4, I wouldn't read much of anything into anything.
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Mar 22, 2018 18:48
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Phylodox posted:No, he’s gonna get time gemmed back to finally go on his date. Actually you know this is a really good idea. And a good way to introduce the idea of 616/1610/19999/etc.
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Mar 22, 2018 18:48
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Guys, guys... Punisher Cap is the correct answer.
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Mar 22, 2018 18:50
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Jonny_Rocket posted:Why not Bucky? Well on one side is the black va social worker who got back in the game to help cap take down Hydra and became an avenger and is liked and respected by his peers on the other is the white multiple murderer who hasn't actually done anything to earn the shield and is disliked by everyone and only is tolerated at all because he's an old friend of Steve's This isn't a tough choice for me
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Mar 22, 2018 18:54
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Evans would crush it, can you imagine how many people would line up to vote for Captain America?
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Mar 22, 2018 19:01
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site posted:multiple murderer The movies are pretty explicit that he wanted no part of that and was used as a puppet against his will, and actively resisted the mind control on at least one occasion and feels guilty about poo poo that was entirely beyond his control.
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Mar 22, 2018 19:08
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Rhyno posted:Evans would crush it, can you imagine how many people would line up to vote for Captain America? Something about a swift boat or something.
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Mar 22, 2018 19:08
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site posted:Well on one side is the black va social worker who got back in the game to help cap take down Hydra and became an avenger and is liked and respected by his peers That's true, all completely valid points. However, let's not forget that Bucky didn't kill people under his own will - he was brainwashed and used as a tool by Hydra. I feel like the next step for the character is a path to redemption - atoning for his mistakes and becoming a hero. What better way for his character arc to come full circle than if Bucky becomes Captain America in honor of his fallen best friend?
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Mar 22, 2018 19:10
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Ugly In The Morning posted:The movies are pretty explicit that he wanted no part of that and was used as a puppet against his will, and actively resisted the mind control on at least one occasion and feels guilty about poo poo that was entirely beyond his control. Yeah, but I mean... he still is a former Hydra assassin and due to the events of winter soldier and civil war it's public knowledge. Having a guy with that resume take up the mantle of progressive American idealism looks really lovely
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Mar 22, 2018 19:12
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Jonny_Rocket posted:What better way for his character arc to come full circle than if Bucky becomes Captain America in honor of his fallen best friend? For him to bury the hatchet with Sam and realize he’s the better man for the job? An act of true selflessness on which to end his superhero career?
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Mar 22, 2018 19:14
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site posted:Yeah, but I mean... he still is a former Hydra assassin and due to the events of winter soldier and civil war it's public knowledge. Having a guy with that resume take up the mantle of progressive American idealism looks really lovely It happened in the comics. And overall Bucky's time as Cap was better crafted than Sam's.
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Mar 22, 2018 19:15
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Jonny_Rocket posted:That's true, all completely valid points. However, let's not forget that Bucky didn't kill people under his own will - he was brainwashed and used as a tool by Hydra. I feel like the next step for the character is a path to redemption - atoning for his mistakes and becoming a hero. What better way for his character arc to come full circle than if Bucky becomes Captain America in honor of his fallen best friend? This was done in the Brubaker run but it took a lot of time/effort and ends with Cap being Cap again, and Bucky already had far more establishing scenes to make the transition more plausible. In the MCU it would come kinda out of nowhere, he isn't much of a character. Falcon hasn't been hugely developed either but it would make sense. I guess there are two Avengers movies to handle that in but Falcon is easier to slide in. I also with zero basis assume that Cap will replace Fury, since Sam Jackson is pretty old and seems removed from the MCU at this point.
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Mar 22, 2018 19:17
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Jonny_Rocket posted:That's true, all completely valid points. However, let's not forget that Bucky didn't kill people under his own will - he was brainwashed and used as a tool by Hydra. I feel like the next step for the character is a path to redemption - atoning for his mistakes and becoming a hero. What better way for his character arc to come full circle than if Bucky becomes Captain America in honor of his fallen best friend? Personally I don't feel like passing over the qualified black man because we should want the white man to make amends to himself is a compelling argument site fucked around with this message at 19:20 on Mar 22, 2018 |
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Mar 22, 2018 19:17
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Zachack posted:This was done in the Brubaker run but it took a lot of time/effort and ends with Cap being Cap again, and Bucky already had far more establishing scenes to make the transition more plausible. In the MCU it would come kinda out of nowhere, he isn't much of a character. Falcon hasn't been hugely developed either but it would make sense. Bucky isn't much of a character? He's been established as a tragic figure who was the childhood friend of Steve Rogers who fought alongside him in World War II. Remember how Bucky saved Steve from being beat up by a bully in the first movie? And then Bucky saves Steve again after he grabs his shield to protect him from the explosion that ripped open the side of the train. He's been heroic before - why can't he be again? He was ultimately a victim of Zola's experiments and HYDRA's brainwashing. Jonny_Rocket fucked around with this message at 12:00 on Mar 28, 2018 |
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Mar 22, 2018 19:26
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This isn't the first time Evans was officially out. RDJ was to a couple times. Truck loads of money and better behind the scenes style tend to undo those things.
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Mar 22, 2018 19:36
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Jonny_Rocket posted:Bucky isn't much of a character? He's been established as a tragic figure who was the childhood friend of Steve Rogers who fought alongside him in World War II. Remember how Bucky saved Steve from being beat up by a bully in the first movie? And then Bucky saves Steve again after he grabs his shield to protect him from the explosion that ripped open the side of the train. That's not what character is.
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Mar 22, 2018 19:36
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Jonny_Rocket posted:So you're bringing race into this discussion? What does that have to do with the overall story or character arcs? Okay well my work here is done
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Mar 22, 2018 19:41
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Aphrodite posted:That's not what character is. Instead of a snarky remark, how about explaining why? site posted:Okay well my work here is done Good job avoiding the question.
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Mar 22, 2018 19:48
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lollllllllllll holy poo poo
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Mar 22, 2018 19:50
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Now I remember why I stopped visiting the forums for a while. Instead of having a thoughtful discussion, you all would rather give one sentence, snarky answers or make fun of it. I'm dropping the discussion - it's not worth it.
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Mar 22, 2018 19:52
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Jonny_Rocket posted:Now I remember why I stopped visiting the forums for a while. Instead of having a thoughtful discussion, you all would rather give one sentence, snarky answers or make fun of it. I'm dropping the discussion - it's not worth it. Everyone just wants what they want and gets super defensive if they are questioned on it. Like when I say I'd prefer Evans remain as Cap I get attacked for wanting to keep Anthony Mackie out of the role.
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Mar 22, 2018 19:57
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Rhyno posted:Everyone just wants what they want and gets super defensive if they are questioned on it. Like when I say I'd prefer Evans remain as Cap I get attacked for wanting to keep Anthony Mackie out of the role. Because a finite character arc with a beginning, middle, and, most importantly, an end that involves growth and change is infinitely more satisfying than just keeping the character going long after they've run their course. It's something comic books are usually terrible about and that films could easily rectify. And Sam makes more sense as the new Cap than Bucky because Bucky represents the past. He's part of Steve's history. Sam represents an optimistic future. A fitting end to Bucky's character arc would be the realization that Sam is the better man, and that Bucky's time is over.
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Mar 22, 2018 20:05
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Sam’s character arc so far has been “is sam”. He’s a static character. It’s not crazy to think Bucky is more interesting and really annoying to say that the main reason you want Bucky’s arc to continue is because you’re racist.
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Mar 22, 2018 20:09
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Phylodox posted:Because a finite character arc with a beginning, middle, and, most importantly, an end that involves growth and change is infinitely more satisfying than just keeping the character going long after they've run their course. It's something comic books are usually terrible about and that films could easily rectify. I'm not disagreeing with anything you say. I still want Evans to continue in the role.
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Mar 22, 2018 20:10
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Bucky is a plot device, not a character. Stuff happens around him, he could have been Steve's childhood sled.
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Mar 22, 2018 20:11
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Jonny_Rocket posted:Okay. I was hoping to have a respectful exchange here, but you're clearly not interested in that. Bye.
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Mar 22, 2018 20:12
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Steve is in his deathbed, surrounded by friends and hanger-ons. He whispers one word before he dies. "Bucky"
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Mar 22, 2018 20:14
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Rhyno posted:Everyone just wants what they want and gets super defensive if they are questioned on it. Like when I say I'd prefer Evans remain as Cap I get attacked for wanting to keep Anthony Mackie out of the role. I must say there's a stunning lack of self awareness and lots of  here considering not even a week ago you tried to dictate to me what I can and can't find offensive and transphobic because I had the gall to call something you found funny problematic
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Mar 22, 2018 20:15
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Ugly In The Morning posted:Sam’s character arc so far has been “is sam”. He’s a static character. It’s not crazy to think Bucky is more interesting Sam's character arc has involved him being a veteran who worked with other veterans and got swept up into the crazy world of superheroics. That is, I need to stress, the beginning of his arc. Bucky's already seen heroism, a fall from grace, and (likely in Infinity War) redemption. Having him take on the role of Cap would just be...I dunno, doubling down on the redemption thing? And then what? More redemption? With Sam there's room to grow and develop his character a lot. Who is he as Captain America? Instead of yet another time displaced man-out-of-his-element, we get to explore what a modern Captain America would mean. One who grew up in today's social and political landscape.
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Mar 22, 2018 20:26
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And hey, if having a lovely comics run were a disqualifier, Civil War as a concept wouldn't have been made. Maybe movie writers can do some better work than Nick Spencer.
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Mar 22, 2018 20:29
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Phylodox posted:Sam's character arc has involved him being a veteran who worked with other veterans and got swept up into the crazy world of superheroics. That is, I need to stress, the beginning of his arc. Bucky's already seen heroism, a fall from grace, and (likely in Infinity War) redemption. Having him take on the role of Cap would just be...I dunno, doubling down on the redemption thing? And then what? More redemption? With Sam there's room to grow and develop his character a lot. Who is he as Captain America? Instead of yet another time displaced man-out-of-his-element, we get to explore what a modern Captain America would mean. One who grew up in today's social and political landscape. Thank you for the thoughtful response - I agree with you 100%, in this respect. I especially love the analysis that I bolded at the end, and now I've switched over from team Bucky to team Sam as the next Captain America
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Mar 22, 2018 20:34
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site posted:I must say there's a stunning lack of self awareness and lots of No, you failed to accept that we were laughing at the joke that Bruce would become anything that flew through his window. You also made a post what, 2 days ago where you said you were not interested in a book because it was woman written by two men. But you 180'd when you found out one of the writers was a woman. Because you failed to do 45 seconds of googling. Your recent posts are just you hating white men with a fierce passion. And that's fine, hate you hate. You need a break from the internet.
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Mar 22, 2018 20:34
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Men writing comics have done a lovely job of writing women (see early Fantastic Four and Wasp panels). Hearing that a woman is being written by men is something that causes some people to pause, but finding out that women are being written by women is usually a selling point for obvious reason.
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Mar 22, 2018 20:37
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IUG posted:Men writing comics have done a lovely job of writing women (see early Fantastic Four and Wasp panels). Hearing that a woman is being written by men is something that causes some people to pause, but finding out that women are being written by women is usually a selling point for obvious reason. This is not always the case and my examples were pretty solid in the other thread. Rucka on Wonder Woman being key.
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Mar 22, 2018 20:38
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We have one thousand superheros played by white men, so wanting Sam to take the Shield instead of Bucky is fine, representation matters. We have had one million women written by white men over the past few centuries, so being more interested if a woman is doing it is fine, representation matters.
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Mar 22, 2018 20:41
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Retro Futurist posted:We have one thousand superheros played by white men, so wanting Sam to take the Shield instead of Bucky is fine, representation matters. I'm not disagreeing with either point. I'm not saying representation doesn't matter nor I have I ever.
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Mar 22, 2018 20:43
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i too cant fathom why a woman might want to see a woman write women and the importance of seeing minority creators do books about minority characters to minority readers
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Mar 22, 2018 20:47
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I think Tony's much more likely to bite it in Infinity War than Cap, honestly. I think he's had a much more complete character arc, he has a clear protege to hand the torch to, he has a clear replacement in terms of personality (Doctor Strange), RDJ is an expensive actor, and I think it's very appropriate in terms of him as a character now. Cap still feels like he has room to grow as a hero, Tony doesn't. Tony feels to me like he'll either replace Nick Fury and retire from the field, or die in this movie, and Tony dying would be a clear end of an era move in terms of story. I like MCU Tony far more than MCU Cap, but I think it might very well be Tony's time and I'm okay with that.
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Mar 22, 2018 20:48
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site posted:i too cant fathom why a woman might want to see a woman write women and the importance of seeing minority creators do books about minority characters to minority readers That wasn't my problem. My problem was you saying "gently caress this dude made comic" without taking a second to find out that the writer was a woman. And your defense was "Devin isn't a woman's name."
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Mar 22, 2018 20:49
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