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But how much grinding SHOULD it take for a F2P player to have a complete tier 1 deck? Also one of the devs mentioned on the beta forums that every pack you open raises your odds of getting a mythic wild card a little extra, so there is a floor for mythics.
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Mar 23, 2018 13:12
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A Moose posted:I haven't played magic in a while, but aren't mythics usually garbage 7-mana commander fodder? That's definitely what Wizards said Mythics were going to be back when they introduced them and people were complaining that it was a real bad sign for the game. In what should be a surprise to no-one, a lot of both build-around and generically good cards ended up at Mythic, and you're looking at a couple of playsets (or even more) for most competitive decks.
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Mar 23, 2018 13:12
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For what it's worth, in Eternal you can put together basically any tier 1 deck except the "bunch of individually amazing creatures" midrange lists within your first month. Given that Magic has a pretty regular pace of set releases and rotations, I would expect that a F2P player should be able to "keep up" in the metagame, and put together at least one new T1 deck with every set release. And that's if you wanted to be really stingy - ideally people would be able to put together multiple decks over that timeframe, so they can enjoy various different aspects of the format instead of being locked into whichever one they chose first.
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Mar 23, 2018 13:16
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80s James Hetfield posted:That Temur Sandwurm deck looks like a pile of hot poo poo (fun) but drat I wanna try it out on X-Mage Exactly 
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Mar 23, 2018 13:22
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It's like Wizards secretly doesn't want anyone to play Magic sometimes. We were screaming at them to be more generous with the economy on the beta forums. What incentive do ingrained HS players have to switch?
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Mar 23, 2018 13:22
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Its not really a coincidence that the deadest games are the most generous. Eternal has a playerbase in the... hundreds? Like The Elder Scrolls: Legends had the whole twitch drops thing where they just drowned everyone in free gold and legendaries to try to get anyone to play their game, but then started releasing expansions at the same pace as the actual Elder Scrolls games and refused to host any tournaments. You pretty much just have to compete with Hearthstone, which is wildly popular and also not known for being even a little generous. Also the #1 reason to play Arena is that its the only game where you can play with magic cards and magic rules and be remotely F2P. You have actual interaction with your opponents. Magic has pretty much been its own biggest competition.
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Mar 23, 2018 13:28
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Eternal has a pretty healthy player base as far as I know, definitely more than in the hundreds.
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Mar 23, 2018 13:30
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netcat posted:Eternal has a pretty healthy player base as far as I know, definitely more than in the hundreds. The last event they ran had ~10k unique players participate
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Mar 23, 2018 13:33
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I still suspect that Eternal was basically just a proof of concept for Arena. Wotc hired guys from direwolf digital, which is fine with me just saying.
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Mar 23, 2018 13:47
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A Moose posted:Its not really a coincidence that the deadest games are the most generous. Eternal has a playerbase in the... hundreds? Like The Elder Scrolls: Legends had the whole twitch drops thing where they just drowned everyone in free gold and legendaries to try to get anyone to play their game, but then started releasing expansions at the same pace as the actual Elder Scrolls games and refused to host any tournaments. You pretty much just have to compete with Hearthstone, which is wildly popular and also not known for being even a little generous. There are a few important differences with Hearthstone, I think. It very much had a boiling the frog model, where it slowly got more and more expensive to be a F2P player— I doubt it would have got as huge as it did if it required the investment it does now back at its conception, or maybe even if it was publically a rotating format. And even then it looks like they boiled the frog too much, because they have had to become very slightly more generous over the last small while. I think something Wizards is generally quite bad at is hiding how nakedly predatory its practices are. Obviously all companies squeeze as much money out of consumers as they can, but Wizards can try and do this in a way that's so obvious it means they end up with less money as a result. I'm sure there's a word for this, and I don't know what it is.
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Mar 23, 2018 14:11
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Elyv posted:Take a look at the banning timeline, the early part is kind of a trip If they had restricted black vice sooner I wouldn’t have been eliminated in the first round of the only tournament I ever played in. 
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Mar 23, 2018 14:36
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vegetables posted:I think something Wizards is generally quite bad at is hiding how nakedly predatory its practices are. Obviously all companies squeeze as much money out of consumers as they can, but Wizards can try and do this in a way that's so obvious it means they end up with less money as a result. I'm sure there's a word for this, and I don't know what it is. Deadweight loss. Funny enough a good name for a magic card.
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Mar 23, 2018 14:48
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Bulky Bartokomous posted:If they had restricted black vice sooner I wouldn’t have been eliminated in the first round of the only tournament I ever played in. I remember in the old Shandalar game where you could have no deck restrictions I would play about 18 Black Vises and win through them alone. There was a bug that made them trigger multiple times if you had more than one, so they were even more overpowered than usual!
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Mar 23, 2018 14:54
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Having fun with Enigma Drake in Arena. 'Insult, attack with drake, Fling drake' catches a lot of opponents by surprise.
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Mar 23, 2018 15:02
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Bulky Bartokomous posted:If they had restricted black vice sooner I wouldn’t have been eliminated in the first round of the only tournament I ever played in. black vice was one of the most infuriatingly brutal turn one things you could do as a small child playing with friends the only other thing that was close to as irritating was a turn one dark ritual + hypnotic specter
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Mar 23, 2018 15:06
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I definitely don't miss the old days of land and hand destruction being viable, pushed strategies
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Mar 23, 2018 15:11
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evilweasel posted:black vice was one of the most infuriatingly brutal turn one things you could do as a small child playing with friends I have gone turn 1 on the play Swamp, Dark Rit, Dark Rit, Dark Rit, Mind Twist before . . . . . . .my brother wasnt very happy with me
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Mar 23, 2018 15:11
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If we're talking dumb things played a long time ago, the one play I remember was: 1. Land, Sol Ring -> Winter Orb 2. Land, Icy Manipulator
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Mar 23, 2018 15:24
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Dominaria Story Pt. 2 recap Liliana is appropriately angsty about Josu being a lich now. She yells at the Raven Man for a bit. Then, Lili tells Gids that Belzenlok's lich is her brother. They go to the angel commanding the local Benalish forces and convince her to fight the Cabal near the Vess mansion to lure Josu in, because that's the only place they can de-lich him I guess. whatever. The angel tells them that the cabal have a "dread shade" and several "skin witches" as the heavy hitters of their force.They use a Tolarian mage to put a glamour on gideon to make him look like a skin witch so he can sneak attack the shade and lure it away from the main battle. Lili meets Josu in the mansion and uses the chain veil to un-lich him, but not before he gets some sick burns off about how she indirectly killed her whole family or whatever. The story ends with this fine bit of writing. quote:Her voice hard with fury, she said, "If Belzenlok thinks this will stop me, he's a fool. I will pry open his Stronghold, slaughter his grimnants, and destroy his legacy. No matter what it takes. If I must be a curse, then let me be Belzenlok's!"
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Mar 23, 2018 15:34
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TheChirurgeon posted:I definitely don't miss the old days of land and hand destruction being viable, pushed strategies that hymn to tourach isn't modern legal is the worst thing about coming back to this game
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Mar 23, 2018 15:40
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TheChirurgeon posted:I definitely don't miss the old days of land and hand destruction being viable, pushed strategies Funny enough, one of the only times I ever 4-0'ed a standard FNM was back in the days of CHK-RAV standard + 9th, running RG Magnivore. A Ponza type, I guess. It was always my favorite strategy; but playing against an extremely viable RG Ponza in Modern, I've suddenly realized how lovely I was probably making my opponents feel.
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Mar 23, 2018 15:47
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Buffis posted:If we're talking dumb things played a long time ago, the one play I remember was: That was a good one, when I discovered my old deck it had one of each those artifacts.
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Mar 23, 2018 15:57
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mossyfisk posted:Having fun with Enigma Drake in Arena. 'Insult, attack with drake, Fling drake' catches a lot of opponents by surprise. It is still fun in current standard as well, except no one plays standard.
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Mar 23, 2018 16:01
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TheChirurgeon posted:I definitely don't miss the old days of land and hand destruction being viable, pushed strategies They were viable when everything was poo poo and cost infinity to cast, try either of them now and you’ll get flattened.
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Mar 23, 2018 16:14
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TheKingofSprings posted:They were viable when everything was poo poo and cost infinity to cast, try either of them now and you’ll get flattened. yes, this is why I referred to them as "the old days"
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Mar 23, 2018 16:23
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InterrupterJones posted:Funny enough, one of the only times I ever 4-0'ed a standard FNM was back in the days of CHK-RAV standard + 9th, running RG Magnivore. A Ponza type, I guess. It was always my favorite strategy; but playing against an extremely viable RG Ponza in Modern, I've suddenly realized how lovely I was probably making my opponents feel. During Mirrodin-Kamigawa standard I played mono-red Slith Firewalker/Arc-Slogger Ponza. Another local was on Tooth and Nail. After about a month and a half of being paired with him in the first round of two FNMs a week (TO software was obviously a beta for the MTGO shuffler) he just started preemptively scooping to me because his time was better spent drinking than never making Tron.
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Mar 23, 2018 16:29
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A Moose posted:So the beta forums are actually talking about boycotting arena because they removed the 1 Mythic Wild Card from the Vault that you get from opening duplicates of cards. Now the only way to get the mythics you want are from opening them, or opening a Mythic wild card in a pack and the REEEEEEEing is deafening. People are unbelievably pissed that they can't have a full playset of every mythic rare on day 1 or something. I haven't played magic in a while, but aren't mythics usually garbage 7-mana commander fodder? you are incredibly wrong. t1 decks run over 10 mythics in some cases and this will absolutely wreck Arena
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Mar 23, 2018 16:31
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 KenBearlLOLOL posted:During Mirrodin-Kamigawa standard I played mono-red Slith Firewalker/Arc-Slogger Ponza. Another local was on Tooth and Nail. After about a month and a half of being paired with him in the first round of two FNMs a week (TO software was obviously a beta for the MTGO shuffler) he just started preemptively scooping to me because his time was better spent drinking than never making Tron. I loving loved playing that deck when T&N was meta. That was when I first started realizing how to play competitively and nothing felt better than blowing up my opponent's Tron while I slammed in with a Firewalker.
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Mar 23, 2018 16:32
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neat! I like that very much
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Mar 23, 2018 16:33
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a good merfolk be cool if that deck could get better
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Mar 23, 2018 16:41
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Nothing about the Arena economy really matters until we know how much it costs to draft and how much drafting pays out. They’re going to gently caress that up entirely, I can feel it.
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Mar 23, 2018 16:42
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GonSmithe posted:I loving loved playing that deck when T&N was meta. That was when I first started realizing how to play competitively and nothing felt better than blowing up my opponent's Tron while I slammed in with a Firewalker. Sowing Salt was the best-named sideboard card ever. I had better results in standard after I switched to Big Red with sad robot, top and Shrapnel Blast instead of the LD package, though. My favorite story from that era was killing an opponent from 20 over the course of his end step and my turn with one Pulse of the Forge.
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Mar 23, 2018 16:45
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 tl;dr: cut a couple lands from your deck probably
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Mar 23, 2018 16:50
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quote:Levar used his very essence to cast a spell shielding a small colony of merfolk called the Eliterates from Yawgmoth's death cloud. He gave his life in appreciation of beauty, and his final thoughts were that it was a worthy death. neat.
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Mar 23, 2018 16:54
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So they took the idea from Eternal and implemented it the way it should have been implemented. I like it.
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Mar 23, 2018 16:54
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Wait, why are they... What the... But So they're not working on implementing proper best-of-3 matches?!?
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Mar 23, 2018 16:55
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Gustav posted:Wait, why are they... What the... But They are but currently only have best of ones turned on in the beta. Be careful when cutting lands. When you mulligan it will not modify your draw it only does it for the opening draw.
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Mar 23, 2018 16:57
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Does that merfolk wizard kill Tarmogoyf?
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Mar 23, 2018 16:57
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Boco_T posted:Does that merfolk wizard kill Tarmogoyf? It remains a 0/1 so no
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Mar 23, 2018 16:57
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Boco_T posted:Does that merfolk wizard kill Tarmogoyf? It'd still be a 0/1
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Mar 23, 2018 16:58
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