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Forums Terrorist posted:I hope when the GSC book drops the brood brothers rule becomes that you take guard units in the GSC detachment rather than getting to glue bugs and guard together Booley posted:FW are an excellent company who need to be fully compensated for their amazing sculpting and fantastic quality. I've been considering getting a Leviathan & Deredeo as my next project, so out of curiosity I just checked what FW would charge for that these days. £150 gets you both dreads & one set of weapons for each, plus an extra option for the Leviathan. OK, a little pricey but they're cool models. Standard delivery is an untracked royal mail service most businesses charge a few pounds for. However FW think £18 is a reasonable fee for dropping two resin figures into a shoebox and flinging them out the door with no tracking, notification or guarantee they'll even arrive. But it's OK, because for £30 you can get the 2 day 'express' service via UPS! Meanwhile I've just paid £3.95 to get a new shed delivered, complete with tracking and texts with the arrival window. Go squat yourselves, FW.
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Mar 24, 2018 01:42
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xtothez posted:I'm half expecting them to scrap the ally rules and just reprint half the IG codex in the GSC one. It's not like it would have too many unit options otherwise. The 2 day express service isn't actually 2 day express. It's still a week to conus.
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Mar 24, 2018 01:47
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DJ Dizzy posted:Sure. If you view lists that are EVEN MORE SPAMMY as an improvement. "I dont want to spam things" - an ork player
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Mar 24, 2018 01:48
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Arguably certain armies want to spam. 10 Shield captain jet bikes doesn't feel like the right kind of spam.
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Mar 24, 2018 02:07
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"Unclear lines of command: for every HQ unit beyond the (not sure: first, second, third, nth?) reduce CP by ()"
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Mar 24, 2018 02:12
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For_Great_Justice posted:Arguably certain armies want to spam. 10 Shield captain jet bikes doesn't feel like the right kind of spam. What's the counter for that anyway? 10-15 dreadnoughts? No wait, it's probably 20 culexus/eversor assassins.
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Mar 24, 2018 02:15
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DancingShade posted:What's the counter for that anyway? 10-15 dreadnoughts? Spearhead Detachment full of Hydras and Command Salamanders? 
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Mar 24, 2018 02:17
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Schadenboner posted:Spearhead Detachment full of Hydras and Command Salamanders? 3 vortex missile aquila strongholds with 500 points of infantry spread between all 3 hiding inside?
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Mar 24, 2018 02:18
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Tau firing line do pretty well if the other guy has gone all-in on captains with very little screen fodder.
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Mar 24, 2018 02:20
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Foul Blightspawns should do pretty well vs shield captains.
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Mar 24, 2018 02:24
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DJ Dizzy posted:Sure. If you view lists that are EVEN MORE SPAMMY as an improvement. 3/10, plant a cornfield around that strawman.  Serious Post: How are Mechanicus in HH these days? Playing religious fanatic robo-nerds with insane meatborgs sounds rad as gently caress.
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Mar 24, 2018 02:33
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Proletariat Beowulf posted:Serious Post: How are Mechanicus in HH these days? Playing religious fanatic robo-nerds with insane meatborgs sounds rad as gently caress. Serious Answer: Awesome. They've got a bunch of crazy builds for characters, along with all the robot cultists and giant murderbots you could desire. Plus, Scoria is capable of bitch slapping most Primarchs to death.
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Mar 24, 2018 02:37
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I run a single flyrant because I'm not a spam rear end in a top hat and I will not be pleased if the unit itself gets a nerf because everyone else ruined it. Just limit it to 1 per detachment.
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Mar 24, 2018 02:40
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Proletariat Beowulf posted:3/10, plant a cornfield around that strawman. Cum post in the 30k thread milord.
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Mar 24, 2018 02:47
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2nd ed best ed
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Mar 24, 2018 02:51
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Deified Data posted:I run a single flyrant because I'm not a spam rear end in a top hat and I will not be pleased if the unit itself gets a nerf because everyone else ruined it. Just limit it to 1 per detachment. Forgot the second HQ: If you do that and don’t limit detachments you can still field 5 and 5 Neurothropes in a 2000pt list and have 18CP with tons of units popping up from reserve. :/ vvv Is it limited for all matched play or just some tournament formats? PierreTheMime fucked around with this message at 03:15 on Mar 24, 2018 |
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Mar 24, 2018 03:05
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PierreTheMime posted:If you do that and don’t limit detachments you can still field 6-7 in a 2000pt list and have 21-24CP with tons of units popping up from reserve. :/ Detachments in matched play have a hard limit of 3
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Mar 24, 2018 03:06
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Edit: double post.
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Mar 24, 2018 03:10
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Neurolimal posted:Detachments in matched play have a hard limit of 3 No, detachments in tournament play have a hard limit of 3. At least so far. The rulebook, on page 214, has a set of "Organized Event Guidelines" that they suggest using. At 2000 points they suggest a limit of up to 3 detachments per army. There is no GW provided hard limit on the number of detachments in an army.
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Mar 24, 2018 03:17
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Booley posted:No, detachments in tournament play have a hard limit of 3. At least so far. The rulebook, on page 214, has a set of "Organized Event Guidelines" that they suggest using. At 2000 points they suggest a limit of up to 3 detachments per army. There is no GW provided hard limit on the number of detachments in an army. Right, so in other words, there exists an effective hard limit of three detachments, because anyone looking for matched play (i.e most players) will go along with GW's 'suggested' limit, otherwise they'd just play Unbound. If some random dude wants you to fight his six detachment 2000pt army nobody is stopping you from telling him to suck your nuts, since there doesnt exist a technicality guardian to keep you & game store pals from giving the stinkeye
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Mar 24, 2018 03:21
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Neurolimal posted:Right, so in other words, there exists an effective hard limit of three detachments, because anyone looking for matched play will go along with GW's 'suggested' limit, otherwise they'd just play Unbound. I can do that when he puts 7 flyrants on the board too. Lets not bring what I can or can't do into a rules discussion. The rules do not have a limit on number of detachments.
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Mar 24, 2018 03:23
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Groetgaffel posted:120 new posts in the warhams thread? This is all new to me, I haven't seen anyone defend 7th edition in the four months I've been playing. It probably would've discouraged me a bit from starting if I read all this garbage right away. Of course my friends bribing me with $150 worth of stuff would've gotten me into it all the same, but whatever. Forums Terrorist posted:I hope when the GSC book drops the brood brothers rule becomes that you take guard units in the GSC detachment rather than getting to glue bugs and guard together I could see Tyranids getting really scary if they can take a cheap GSC detachment as "glue" between Codex Tyranids and Codex Guard and the GSC have a good Codex. Just right now it's pretty scary, and the only thing holding me back from trying it with the Index is the lack of a Shadowsword. I like the flavor of GSC corrupting a Guard detachment. Maybe they'll make it so it's very specific on what Guard units they can take?
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Mar 24, 2018 03:30
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LifeLynx posted:This is all new to me, I haven't seen anyone defend 7th edition in the four months I've been playing. It probably would've discouraged me a bit from starting if I read all this garbage right away. Of course my friends bribing me with $150 worth of stuff would've gotten me into it all the same, but whatever. I don't think anyone is defending 7th so much as saying that 8th is still broken in some ways, mainly thanks to how detachments and keywords work. Also, you can take a shadowsword, take a look at the list I posted a little bit back from adepticon.
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Mar 24, 2018 03:37
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Booley posted:I don't think anyone is defending 7th so much as saying that 8th is still broken in some ways, mainly thanks to how detachments and keywords work. Oh I thought the 30k players were... you know what I don't want to join in whatever this is, I like rolling dice too much to soil it. I meant I don't have a Shadowsword, not that I can't write one into my list.
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Mar 24, 2018 03:48
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I think generally most ppl would like to have an edition of 40k (any game really) without a significant portion of players just loving the thing up with stuff that you look at on table or in list form an you can't help but go "loving really guy?". One if the most egregious forms of this was a memorial flgs ran event with no real prize, was really just organised games ppl could plan for an set aside time. 7th was the current edition. A team of two guys still showed up with an army of Magnus, Kairos, a changer of ways leading all khorne dogs. poo poo ruined the whole thing. More recenly was a flgs event where a team showed up with knights an Magnus. They got pitted against a similar list round one, tied then bailed an messed up the pairings. This was 8th ed. Neither of those lists are fluffy. They're just optimized event lists built to push advantages an win. Yes you can exploit rules to do stuff. But should you really? If ruining everyone else's enjoyment of something gives you enjoyment, seek help. 8th isn't free of poo poo like this. Arguing if 7th or any edition was better won't alter that nonone will play it at any event or pick up game.
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Mar 24, 2018 04:24
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Kung Fu Fist gently caress posted:8th is bad because black templars are a joke in melee I'm really bummed that my Choppy Marines are outdone by literally any and all Choppy Marines that aren't mine. I think an easy fix to some of the spammier lists is to limit one of each HQ choice per detachment. This still lets you have Lieutenants and such as they're two per slot, but mitigates flyrants, shield captains, and so on. Does anyone have this Forgeworld Whirlwind lying around? I want to pick one up - either the whole tank or just the turret and sensor module. Forgeworld has similar bits on one of the Land Raiders but the sensor is different. 
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Mar 24, 2018 04:38
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SRM posted:I'm really bummed that my Choppy Marines are outdone by literally any and all Choppy Marines that aren't mine. Did they seriously stop making that? If so that sucks because it ape'd an actual MRSL a hell of a lot better than the current kit.
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Mar 24, 2018 05:07
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Chiwie posted:Did they seriously stop making that? If so that sucks because it ape'd an actual MRSL a hell of a lot better than the current kit.
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Mar 24, 2018 05:17
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I wonder if you could do some sort of a similarity check with detachments. Like, if I take a Cadian Brigade and then add a Cadian detachment with a bunch of heavy weapon teams, then there's no penalty. If I take a Cadian Brigade and then take a Tempestus detachment then I lose a CP for taking a detachment from a different regiment. If I take Cadians and an Astartes detachment then I'd be at -2 for being different by two keywords. It shouldn't be too hard to define rules that are a little harder to abuse.
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Mar 24, 2018 05:47
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SRM posted:I think an easy fix to some of the spammier lists is to limit one of each HQ choice per detachment. This still lets you have Lieutenants and such as they're two per slot, but mitigates flyrants, shield captains, and so on. That’s extremely rough on smaller factions like Mechanicus, has weird consequences for certain specific units with multiple distinct datasheets (Primaris captains), and it immediately invalidates a lot of detachment concepts that GW has gone out of their way to encourage (“3 Librarian friends”). I’d rather just have 0-1 or 0-2 baked into individual unit choices than try for a one-size-fits-all fix. But if I were going to impose such a fix, it’d be a simple percentage cap on HQ (25%?).
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Mar 24, 2018 05:52
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Sulecrist posted:That’s extremely rough on smaller factions like Mechanicus, has weird consequences for certain specific units with multiple distinct datasheets (Primaris captains), and it immediately invalidates a lot of detachment concepts that GW has gone out of their way to encourage (“3 Librarian friends”). I’d rather just have 0-1 or 0-2 baked into individual unit choices than try for a one-size-fits-all fix. But if I were going to impose such a fix, it’d be a simple percentage cap on HQ (25%?). Other games do stuff like max allotted baked into the stats of units and it works great. It would be a simple line added errata to the specific datasheets. Where named stuff says "only one may be included in an army" it can just say "Only X may be included in a detachment"
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Mar 24, 2018 05:59
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NovemberMike posted:All I see here is
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Mar 24, 2018 06:01
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Booley posted:You should be able to mix multiple fluff aligned armies to craft a fun narrative. Doing so should not be the automatic choice in the quest for the most powerful army possible. Your mixed space marine + IG army should be less effectively organized (represented in game by fewer command points) rather than more effectively organized, since mixing those armies lets you fill in the weaknesses of different codices. I agree with this. I would be fine getting less CP with my AdMech/Custodes list.
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Mar 24, 2018 06:14
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Why are we are wasting time fighting over editions while the fuckboi scum still walk among us?
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Mar 24, 2018 08:11
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Sulecrist posted:That’s extremely rough on smaller factions like Mechanicus, has weird consequences for certain specific units with multiple distinct datasheets (Primaris captains), and it immediately invalidates a lot of detachment concepts that GW has gone out of their way to encourage (“3 Librarian friends”). I’d rather just have 0-1 or 0-2 baked into individual unit choices than try for a one-size-fits-all fix. But if I were going to impose such a fix, it’d be a simple percentage cap on HQ (25%?). Yeah literally in the last 2 weeks I wrote up why arbitrary general restrictions like that don't work with dissimilar factions. You need to get specific and address specific problems, because externalities exist and fixing Shield-Captains and Flyrants by arbitrarily using '1 of each HQ' hurts armies with limited HQ options far more than e.g. Marines or Eldar which have tons of similar but different HQs. NovemberMike posted:I wonder if you could do some sort of a similarity check with detachments. Like, if I take a Cadian Brigade and then add a Cadian detachment with a bunch of heavy weapon teams, then there's no penalty. If I take a Cadian Brigade and then take a Tempestus detachment then I lose a CP for taking a detachment from a different regiment. If I take Cadians and an Astartes detachment then I'd be at -2 for being different by two keywords. The real problem they have is that the regiment-level keywords are doing the same job to cover different things. Tempestus is a separate regiment and they get a bonus if set up right, but ultimately they're just Stormtroopers which were a generic Guard unit for decades. Very few people seem to believe that you shouldn't be able to take them routinely because 'Guard has Stormtroopers' is a normal thing. Then it also covers Daemons, which have always had people expecting that 'fluffy' Daemons means mono-God, but plenty of people pulling the other direction and using mixed lists. Personally I think mono-God is way too limiting, since almost everything in the book is marked and that means cutting out 3/4 of the options available, a restriction no other faction (including Chaos Marines) is expected to operate under. The also there's stuff like Space Marines where generally you've had 'an Ultramarines army' or 'a Raven Guard army' and suddenly you can, and perhaps should, mix and match tactics, in a way which hasn't been normal for them ever. So it's trying to do a bunch of different jobs and cover very different situations (even though it's basically arbitrary why x feels ok but y doesn't). That's not an easy thing to balance.
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Mar 24, 2018 08:54
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How do you field a Storm Eagle? If you do a Patrol Det what HQ would you select from? Air Wing Det. seems to not allow me to put BA Storm Raven in it (in Battlescribe). I went 0/3 in the Gentleman's on Thursday and in the proze raffle I won STORM EAGLE  EDIT: Does my BA Libby Dread count as a flier for the Air Wing? DiHK fucked around with this message at 09:05 on Mar 24, 2018 |
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Mar 24, 2018 09:01
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DiHK posted:How do you field a Storm Eagle? If you do a Patrol Det what HQ would you select from? Air Wing Det. seems to not allow me to put BA Storm Raven in it (in Battlescribe). It's Forge World, so for Battlescribe you have to have the FW Adeptus Astartes selected. A Blood Angels Librarian Dread is an HQ choice. So it is not a flyer.
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Mar 24, 2018 09:38
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SteelMentor posted:I can't wait for 8th ed Horus Heresy. Liquitex Inks are amazing and cheap and I am glad I'm not the only one who uses them. Forums Terrorist posted:30k should go bad to the real golden era of 40k, which was 3rd. Ordinance damage tables, different types of dangerous terrain with their own rules, crossfire... 40K should go back there too. 3rd edition really was the best. Schadenboner posted:What would rules to fix this be? -1 CP for a a second army (defined as having nothing higher than a species in common with every other), -3 for a third? Make it simple; you only gain CP and may only use stratagems from the detachment your Warlord is in.
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Mar 24, 2018 11:26
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Funny people have rose colored glasses for 3rd edition. Yes the main rule book index lists were pretty balanced. If you only used the main rule book lists. But it seems you've all forgotten why that edition was terrible - massive codex power creep and new special rules in every army book. Every codex was better than the last and god help you if your army was one of the early ones. Also back then 95% of your army was probably still metal. Probably lead at that.
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Mar 24, 2018 11:31
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I remember 3rd as a rulebook, codex, the WD with the experimental melee rules, and then printed FAQs. And then all my converted DG terminators lost their rules for five editions.
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Mar 24, 2018 11:38
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