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Throatwarbler posted:I just want F-16s to fight each other. An actual shooting war between NATO members would really release some pent up steam in the alliance. That is not steam sir. Dante80 fucked around with this message at 21:48 on Mar 22, 2018 |
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Mar 22, 2018 21:42
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As a bonus, There are no hospitals or schools in the middle of the Aegean that will need to be bombed.
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Mar 22, 2018 21:45
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Yeah, the 150,000 soldiers Greece and Turkey have facing each other in the Thracian border would be overjoyed with that. Same goes for the local population.
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Mar 22, 2018 21:54
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So Bolton as NSA means full-on genocide of Zaidis in Yemen with active US aid and support, a new Israeli invasion of Lebanon, and Turkey invading and occupying Rojava in full
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Mar 23, 2018 00:36
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Dante80 posted:I'm Greek myself, and things are getting to poo poo with Turkey this year (we really expect something bad happening in Cyprus/Aegean before the year is out). He already smothered the actually really promising unification talks in Cyprus last year or so. So many years had passed and though there were/are still some really contentious issues, of the four parties involved in talks three were adults who had moved on from 74' and wanted change. Greece, Greek Cyprus, Turkish Cyprus. And then, gripping the shoulder of the Turkish Cypriots with a creepy death grip, there was the fourth party. An angry toddler with a mustache. I don't actually think Erdogan would do something violent to the Greek Cypriots, but rather I think the people he'd gently caress over is the Turkish ones. Like a formal annexation of Turkish Cyprus to Turkey, which is a loving shame because Turkish Cyprus is a ten times more stable, progressive, democratic, and secular place than the mainland. And they hate Erdogan. But the sultan don't care.
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Mar 23, 2018 00:40
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icantfindaname posted:So Bolton as NSA means full-on genocide of Zaidis in Yemen with active US aid and support, a new Israeli invasion of Lebanon, and Turkey invading and occupying Rojava in full It actually means Bolton is sitting in one of the henchmen chairs at the table of idiots.
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Mar 23, 2018 00:43
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Dawncloack posted:Yeah, there's a lot of brinkmanship in the area. Also, the whole Cyprus thing came close to a solution recently but then greek Cyprus was like "Yo dudes, we are going to start exploiting this gas reserves without your input, gently caress you!" and the chance was lost. Turkish warships have circled the area. So who knows what will happen. Turkey who was playing the whole matter of unification talks with the worst faith imaginable, and very transparently has little interest in a resolution. Namely because they do not want to have to give up having a base/colony on the island. The talks were really floundering on the matter of foreign troops on the island, the Turkish presence is massive and you are never having the Greek side agree to anything where the army that ethnically cleansed them from half the island in living memory is still there. Meanwhile just to illustrate how much this is about Turkey's interests and not that of the Turkish Cypriots, just go look at the disgusting colonial tone and attitude Erdogan has taken with the Turkish Cypriot leader since he was elected. Which started right off the bat when Erdogan flipped his poo poo at Akinci (TC leader) for using phrasing that *gasp* suggested an equal relationship between North Cyprus and Turkey. https://www.dailysabah.com/politics/2015/04/27/erdogan-criticizes-new-turkish-cypriot-president-for-alienating-island-from-turkey And of course long standing policy of Turkey sending mainland settlers to the North, where they tend to clash with the Turkish Cypriots culturally and politically. Ethnic land disputes involving forced demographic change on contested land are just fantastic situations. Some extra flavor of what I'm getting at: http://cyprus-mail.com/2018/02/09/north-bar-association-condemns-threats-afrika-judge/ https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jan/06/were-not-muslim-enough-fear-turkish-cypriots-as-poll-looms I mean heck even the oil thing, Greek Cypriots pumping oil... I'm not really seeing how that starting without the Turkish Cypriots matters at all? They only stand to gain from unification where y'know, those territorial waters would be also theirs. But think about who stands to have zero access to it in the event of unification.
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Mar 23, 2018 01:18
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https://twitter.com/AmbJohnBolton/status/976865671844978690?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fforums.somethingawful.com%2F There's been talk Trump will pull the US out of the deal in May and with Pompeo and Bolten in as CIA Director and NatSec Advisor I believe it.
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Mar 23, 2018 02:17
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icantfindaname posted:So Bolton as NSA means full-on genocide of Zaidis in Yemen with active US aid and support, a new Israeli invasion of Lebanon, and Turkey invading and occupying Rojava in full you're kinda underestimating how bad things can get.
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Mar 23, 2018 02:30
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Just take what I wrote about Turkey in Cyprus and apply it to northern Syria. -Cause the Greeks/Kurds to flee en mass as your approach. You can scare them away with threat, bingo! No pesky genocide, just good clean ethnic cleansing through intimidation. -Militarily occupy and enforce the new "border" once you've marginalized the Kurds to your satisfaction. -Don't worry about official annexation or anything, an unresolved frozen conflict with a disputed border that nobody else on earth recognizes as legit is cool. And you can get away with it for upwards of 45 years and counting. -Northern Syria can declare independence or whatever, again doesn't matter if no one else recognizes it. Just let them know who the boss is time to time. -Push poor eastern Turks to migrate there over the years, since those ungrateful Arab/Turkish Cypriots might get uppity. Demographically change it up and make it more Turkish. Talk out other side of mouth about Israel doing the same thing in Palestine while doing so. And you won't have really done things right until you do something enormously petty like take the most valuable real estate in the area, and turn it into a huge abandoned no-go zone to use as a bargaining token. https://www.lefttodecay.com/2009/06/25/verosha-i-famagusta-spokelsesbyen/ The real choice thing here is that you're not only loving with the former inhabitants who you chased out by letting their homes turn into decayed time capsules over nearly a half century? But you ALSO gently caress over the ethnic group you claim to be protecting by not letting them use the area either. Also make a big ol' loving flag on a mountain side with a Turkish nationalist motto that the Greeks/Kurds can see from their most populated city, just the biggest most nationalist middle finger you can think of. https://www.google.com/search?q=nic...bRv_alKrtOh1MM:
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Mar 23, 2018 03:54
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Al-Saqr posted:you're kinda underestimating how bad things can get. Seriously. Bolton is probably the person with the biggest boner for military action against Iran int he whole USA.
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Mar 23, 2018 06:25
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Saladman posted:So tons of offices and schools are getting a full week of holiday next week in Cairo (probably other cities too) for the election in Egypt. Kind of surprising as it seems like that would push voting numbers down even further as tons of people will go on holiday to the coasts, but what do I know. I guess one benefit is that it pushes the mood more towards festivity than apprehension, which might be the idea? Getting holidays way outweighs the small risk of a terrorist attack. Are you in Cairo currently? The posters are egregious, especially in Maadi - not usually an easy to navigate neighbourhood, but with all the posters every square is indistinguishable from the next.
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Mar 23, 2018 11:37
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Libluini posted:German culture is a lot like yogurt. A bacterial infection that must be contained?
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Mar 23, 2018 11:52
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Hey Grape, thanks for the effort post. I obviously had only heard part of the story.
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Mar 23, 2018 12:12
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Ham posted:Are you in Cairo currently? The posters are egregious, especially in Maadi - not usually an easy to navigate neighbourhood, but with all the posters every square is indistinguishable from the next. I just left for a couple weeks (coincidentally, not related to the election), but yeah I'm in Maadi. All the roundabouts are like plastered in posters of Sisi plus some random rotating cast of other and usually-young guys who I have no idea who they are. That's a good point actually, I don't remember seeing nearly as much in downtown. I wonder why Maadi is so targeted since like half its residents (percentage made up) are foreign ambassadors and expat workers.
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Mar 23, 2018 12:46
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While Turkey fights a relentless war against The Turkish parliament has voted (205 for, 18 against) to allow RTÜK, the government agency in charge of TV and radio, to extend its control to Internet. Any organization wishing to stream audiovisual content online will have to obtain a permit from RTÜK, failing what they will be blocked in the country. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-03-22/turkey-gives-its-aggressive-tv-censor-control-over-the-web But they don't forget about traditional media either: the Dogan Group (owner of prestigious newspaper Hurriyet, as well as CNN Turk) is going to be turned into the Erdogan Group. http://www.ansamed.info/ansamed/en/...1b5a6cc067.html But before Hurriyet is turned into Erdogan Butt Licking Daily, you can read this on it: http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/turkish-singer-actress-zuhal-olcay-sentenced-to-10-months-in-prison-for-insulting-erdogan-129141
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Mar 23, 2018 13:25
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Rent-A-Cop posted:The EU is a joke. Anything that isn't profitable for German banks isn't gonna happen It's easy to get angry on the internet but Turkey could do a lot of things to make life difficult for most of the EU if relations got really sour.
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Mar 23, 2018 13:48
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Cat Mattress posted:But they don't forget about traditional media either: the Dogan Group (owner of prestigious newspaper Hurriyet, as well as CNN Turk) is going to be turned into the Erdogan Group. That's not very subtle.
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Mar 23, 2018 13:55
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Cat Mattress posted:But they don't forget about traditional media either: the Dogan Group (owner of prestigious newspaper Hurriyet, as well as CNN Turk) is going to be turned into the Erdogan Group. Do you think he actually got $1.25bn for selling those? Or is that what they're theoretically valued at, but what he actually got was one lira and the right to keep his kneecaps temporarily? With Hurriyet gone, will there even be a single newspaper left in Turkey? If you ignore Turkish equivalents to Pravda. Since we've been on the topic of Cyprus, does Northern Cyprus have an independent media, since they're nominally a real country? Or do they have to bow to everything Erdogan tells them to if they don't want to end up in prison with Ocalan?
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Mar 23, 2018 14:02
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Yeah, Hurriyet is a big deal if only it historically was usually associated with secular urbanites. With Radikal also gone, there is Milliyet and a few other secular papers. For example, Cumhuriyet, but it has a circulation of 53,000 and is already under some pretty heavy pressure.
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Mar 23, 2018 14:10
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Ardennes posted:Yeah, Hurriyet is a big deal if only it historically was usually associated with secular urbanites. With Radikal also gone, there is Milliyet and a few other secular papers. For example, Cumhuriyet, but it has a circulation of 53,000 and is already under some pretty heavy pressure. I'm not super familiar with Turkish press, but reading the wiki for Milliyet seems pretty damning for independence: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milliyet and the German site lists even more people getting fired for writing vaguely-theoretically-anti-AKP articles. I guess it might be secular but from my not-particularly-educated standpoint it looks only marginally more independent as Cuba's Granma. Also wasn't Cumhuriyet completely crippled and basically killed after their article and footage of the Turkey military giving weapons to ISIS? (E: "By the end of 2016, almost half of the paper's reporters, columnists and executives had been jailed by the Erdogan government." although reading their website through Google Translate they still seem to publish a surprising number of critical articles.) Saladman fucked around with this message at 15:03 on Mar 23, 2018 |
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Mar 23, 2018 14:59
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Didn't hurriyet get their offices raided and taken over already, or was that something else? I know it wasn't daily sabah obviously but I can't think of a third big paper.
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Mar 23, 2018 15:03
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Saladman posted:I'm not super familiar with Turkish press, but reading the wiki for Milliyet seems pretty damning for independence: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milliyet and the German site lists even more people getting fired for writing vaguely-theoretically-anti-AKP articles. I guess it might be secular but from my not-particularly-educated standpoint it looks only marginally more independent as Cuba's Granma. I don't know if Milliyet is that bad...yet, but in all honesty, I think the traditional secular press is pretty much being either swept aside or suppressed. Cumhuriyet already has a really small circulation size and as you said has taken some big hits. (Radikal is one of the few Turkish newspapers I actually liked.) Hell, you could argue that Turkey by now, if not the near future, will have an even more strictly controlled press than Russia (and yes that is saying something).
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Mar 23, 2018 15:24
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Volkerball posted:Didn't hurriyet get their offices raided and taken over already, or was that something else? I know it wasn't daily sabah obviously but I can't think of a third big paper. It happened to Zaman. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35730041 It also happened to TV stations. http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/turkish-police-raid-critical-media-hq-shut-down-live-broadcast-90429
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Mar 23, 2018 15:38
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Oh right, today's Zaman. Forgot about that one. Unrelated depression fuel. https://twitter.com/muhammadnajem20/status/977192814286180353?s=19 
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Mar 23, 2018 16:09
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Volkerball posted:Oh right, today's Zaman. Forgot about that one. Bana 2.0?
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Mar 23, 2018 16:47
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The success of the operation in Afrin really seems to be going to Erdogan's head, since he keeps ranting about how he's going to take every last YPG territory in the country. Today he said he told Putin and Trump he won't back down, which seems like a bad idea since his best hope of outplaying one is with the help of the other. I really think Obama was right about too much time in power making people (especially dictators) crazy.
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Mar 23, 2018 17:24
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Sinteres posted:The success of the operation in Afrin really seems to be going to Erdogan's head, since he keeps ranting about how he's going to take every last YPG territory in the country. Today he said he told Putin and Trump he won't back down, which seems like a bad idea since his best hope of outplaying one is with the help of the other. I really think Obama was right about too much time in power making people (especially dictators) crazy. That, and "power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely".
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Mar 23, 2018 21:49
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In the meantime, it seems like MBS' air force lost another jet in Yemen. https://twitter.com/ermes_news/status/976524812460969985 quote:#Yemen The Italian is clear enough I guess. Houthi rebels, missile, Saudi F-15, vicinity of Sa'da.
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Mar 23, 2018 21:55
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Dawncloack posted:Hey Grape, thanks for the effort post. I obviously had only heard part of the story. Yeah, I mean by bias kinda lies on the Greek side with inlaws in honesty (an unconscious bias perhaps, I'm not trying to take sides exactly). But really though? The most pitiable people in all this are the Turkish Cypriots. Things really suck for them.
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Mar 24, 2018 00:27
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Saladman posted:With Hurriyet gone, will there even be a single newspaper left in Turkey? If you ignore Turkish equivalents to Pravda. Since we've been on the topic of Cyprus, does Northern Cyprus have an independent media, since they're nominally a real country? Or do they have to bow to everything Erdogan tells them If you looked at some of the links in one of the effort posts you'll see that... A: Yes! They do! And like many things in North Cyprus, they're independent minded and fair and free. B: Yes! Erdogan is currently extending his tendrils down there to intimidate and squash that independence. http://cyprus-mail.com/2017/12/11/turkish-cypriot-daily-trouble-vulgar-erdogan-cartoon/ Another funny thing he does to them: Turkish Cypriots are possibly one of the most secular indigenous Muslim populations on earth, certainly outside of Europe and the former USSR (well, if we consider Cyprus outside of Europe anyway). Like of the two populations on the island its the Christian one down south that is definitely more religious and stuff. But well, Erdogan isn't keen on this and has been funding constant mosque construction there. Grape fucked around with this message at 05:18 on Mar 24, 2018 |
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Mar 24, 2018 00:37
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Cat Mattress posted:Houthi rebels, missile, Saudi F-15, vicinity of Sa'da. Finally some good news.
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Mar 24, 2018 01:52
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Middle East Thread of Despair: Good news! The other guys died this time
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Mar 24, 2018 05:07
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Cat Mattress posted:In the meantime, it seems like MBS' air force lost another jet in Yemen. So nice to see more dead wahabis.
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Mar 24, 2018 05:13
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Lol, the people flying Saudi jets are definitely not Wahabi...
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Mar 24, 2018 05:23
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Thug Lessons posted:Lol, the people flying Saudi jets are definitely not Wahabi... One whon aligns, may as well be one.
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Mar 24, 2018 05:57
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Wouldn't surprise me if it was an American contractor or something.
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Mar 24, 2018 08:53
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Seems the pro-Assad tankies have fallen out which each other, with one group producing a lengthy video attacking Vanessa Beeley and friends, and now they're all calling each other conspiracy theorist. This is what happens when you treat politics like a religion: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOio1baDxd4
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Mar 24, 2018 09:31
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Rania Khalek seems on the outs. I saw Beeley was talking about how she'd punch her in the face if she saw her lol.
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Mar 24, 2018 09:35
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Yeah, they're leaking each others DMs again https://twitter.com/sibeledmonds/status/976619095050289152 The whole video is full of fun stuff, turns out Tim Anderson, their Australian professor friend, was acquitted of a terrorist plot back in the late 70s.
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Mar 24, 2018 09:44
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