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Suck- also the name for this game's mechanics
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Mar 24, 2018 04:41
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That is a remarkably in-depth battle system for a game this size. Most RPGs go for one or two mechanics as a focus, and otherwise stick to the basics. You know, taking an interesting idea they think they can make work, and removing anything they don't know how to tune. This seems like they included every single idea in the battle system and hell with the consequences. A courageous decision, I suppose, in the Yes Minister sense.
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Mar 24, 2018 04:49
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Ah, I see this game is going with Final Fantasy 2 mechanics -and- weapon durability. How... lovely.
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Mar 24, 2018 05:51
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The fact that there's a stat labeled PIE is still the funniest drat thing to me. Would it be sexist of me to point out that the female Koudelka's PIE stat is higher than her male companion's?
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Mar 24, 2018 05:55
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Not only is there a PIE stat, but somehow leveling it up makes you... worse at getting healed? Like, where the gently caress did that idea even come from?
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Mar 24, 2018 05:59
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Worse at being magically healed. Because magic is heresy!  The Faith stat in FFT did the same thing in a less dumb manner, I believe.
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Mar 24, 2018 06:04
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Bufuman posted:The fact that there's a stat labeled PIE is still the funniest drat thing to me. I think I'm grateful that I don't understand why this is sexist, but please explain anyway.
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Mar 24, 2018 06:11
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EagerSleeper posted:I think I'm grateful that I don't understand why this is sexist, but please explain anyway. I think it's the idea that women are expected to bake pies? I guess?
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Mar 24, 2018 06:13
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chiasaur11 posted:I think it's the idea that women are expected to bake pies? I guess? Pie is a euphemism for vagina, and occasionally for women in general. I wasn't sure how offensive people consider it these days (I don't THINK it's used in a derogatory fashion by default, but I can see people using it in such a way) so if anyone doesn't like it I can delete that post.
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Mar 24, 2018 06:32
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A stat that measured how much pie you are wouldn't be much weirder than Bloodborne's bloodtinge stat, which measures how much mercury poisoning you have.
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Mar 24, 2018 06:38
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Malachite_Dragon posted:Worse at being magically healed. Because magic is heresy! Faith in FFT worked both ways, because it raised your Magical Power, but also made you more affected by magic. And if it was too high, your character basically says "man, this heretic gig sucks" and leaves to go on a pilgrimage. Which probably means that there are higher death rates among the low faith crowd in that universe, now that I think about it. Y'know, because white magic doesn't affect them as much. Pyre of Word Salsa fucked around with this message at 06:50 on Mar 24, 2018 |
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Mar 24, 2018 06:46
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Huh, those are not uses of the words "frontend" and "body" that I've seen before. Oh well, easy enough to understand in context.
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Mar 24, 2018 07:13
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Koudelka and Shadow Hearts gets more progressively more fun to play but takes away from the atmosphere with each sequel. I consider Koudelka near unplayable levels of fun on par with Idea Factory games, but there's no other RPG like it. Meanwhile Shadow Hearts 3 has a fantastic turn based combat system, but goes full on with wacky anime clichés it doesn't really standout alone among the JRPG library. Shadow Hearts 2 does a good balance of both and probably why everyone loves it the most.
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Mar 24, 2018 09:42
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I like to think Bug & Suck were also having their own grand adventure until they hit a hosed up random encounter against Fire Woman and Bug Puncher and just quit the game right there.
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Mar 24, 2018 11:08
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Lord Ephraim posted:Koudelka and Shadow Hearts gets more progressively more fun to play but takes away from the atmosphere with each sequel. I consider Koudelka near unplayable levels of fun on par with Idea Factory games, but there's no other RPG like it. Meanwhile Shadow Hearts 3 has a fantastic turn based combat system, but goes full on with wacky anime clichés it doesn't really standout alone among the JRPG library. Shadow Hearts 2 does a good balance of both and probably why everyone loves it the most. I've read the honestly pretty excellent Shadow Hearts and Shadow Hearts 2 lparchive let's play and honestly just loved the poo poo out of Shadow Heart's story. I could see how the gameplay probably wore you down over time (being a JRPG that does something unique with the fighting, but probably got tedious because actual JRPG length) but I didn't have to deal with that so nyeh. Even just as an observer though, I could see what you're talking about with Shadow Hearts 2 looking a lot more fun to actually play. And yet the increasing the ANIME and zaniness was sort of a looming presence, it got in the way of how the world felt sometimes, even if the characters were still overall great. To talk on what little bit of Koudelka we've seen so far, it's a good first impression with the writing. The gameplay on the other hand is hilarious in just how much of a mess it is. I'm just glad I get to see more of the writing without having to deal with that.
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Mar 24, 2018 11:39
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That this game is only 12 hours is a lie, that would mean you only get into about 20 random battles. The random battles are slow is what i am saying. I am also a crazy person who liked that weapon durability actually meant something in this game. In other games it’s just a timer to when you have to use an item/go back to town, but here it affects how you actually handle your weapon loadout.
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Mar 24, 2018 11:57
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What a tire fire of a game system. I know Id said that the director wanted a survival horror game and the team built a JRPG, but how did it happen like this? Did the designers just silo off from each other and had no idea how their parts were going to interact? It would explain the paucity of non-drop weapons and armor.
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Mar 24, 2018 12:28
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PIE and Cheeses may be amusing, but healing items and magic are the least efficient ways to heal in this game.
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Mar 24, 2018 14:34
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I’d never heard of this game and I’m glad Id is playing it and not me.
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Mar 24, 2018 15:52
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I bought Koudelka used after playing Shadow Hearts 1 and 2, to see where it started. It did not come with the instruction manual. This is almost as far as I made it before giving up, so I look forward to seeing the crazy play out.Keldulas posted:Even just as an observer though, I could see what you're talking about with Shadow Hearts 2 looking a lot more fun to actually play. And yet the increasing the ANIME and zaniness was sort of a looming presence, it got in the way of how the world felt sometimes, even if the characters were still overall great. It's been many years, but I thought SH2 struck just about the correct amount of zaniness to counterbalance what is at its core an unremittingly bleak story. SH3 was kind of cargo-culty, though.
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Mar 24, 2018 17:23
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The original Shadow Hearts is the best game in the series, even if the sequels do some things better (and in some cases a lot better). Everything just came together in the right way there.
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Mar 24, 2018 17:32
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Shadow Hearts Covenant is probably best summed up by the fact that these two enemies are from the same game:  Kinda wish they would've made Koudelka 2 with the rough edges smoothed out though, I kind of love the idea of horror-RPGs. The hilariously obscure Japan-exclusive Dreamcast game deSPIRIA is one of the few that come to mind, that game purposefully evokes uncanny valley something fierce and is like some bizarre and weirdly sexual fever dream that I'm still not entirely convinced actually exists. Typical deSPIRIA combat encounter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbZhiVqLCHM&t=72s
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Mar 24, 2018 17:51
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Kanfy posted:Typical deSPIRIA combat encounter: I have no idea what's going on but the aesthetic is pretty memorable and distinctive. No one made a fan translation did they?
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Mar 24, 2018 18:44
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Kanfy posted:Kinda wish they would've made Koudelka 2 with the rough edges smoothed out though, I kind of love the idea of horror-RPGs. The hilariously obscure Japan-exclusive Dreamcast game deSPIRIA is one of the few that come to mind, that game purposefully evokes uncanny valley something fierce and is like some bizarre and weirdly sexual fever dream that I'm still not entirely convinced actually exists. You might try Gorky 17 if you can get it to work on Steam. It, like Koudelka, has a weirdly in-depth weapon proficiency and level-up system for a short horror-strategy RPG where a small NATO team investigates a weird event in Poland where an old Soviet town that was working on teleportation tech is overrun with bio-mechanical mutants. Though the combat was actually really good and fun. Also, all the fights are scripted, planned encounters. No random encounters. And no weapon durability (but limited gun ammo).
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Mar 24, 2018 18:49
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TheGreatEvilKing posted:I have no idea what's going on but the aesthetic is pretty memorable and distinctive. No one made a fan translation did they? I mean I haven't checked but considering that it's an obscure Dreamcast game and like a million hours long besides, I can pretty safely assume the answer is "no". Also I just realized it was released on the 12th of September 2001, so that probably didn't help it becoming a globally known title much. Night10194 posted:You might try Gorky 17 if you can get it to work on Steam. It, like Koudelka, has a weirdly in-depth weapon proficiency and level-up system for a short horror-strategy RPG where a small NATO team investigates a weird event in Poland where an old Soviet town that was working on teleportation tech is overrun with bio-mechanical mutants. Though the combat was actually really good and fun. Also, all the fights are scripted, planned encounters. No random encounters. And no weapon durability (but limited gun ammo). I'm all about weird janky games that do something original so I might take a look, thanks.
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Mar 24, 2018 18:57
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Kanfy posted:Kinda wish they would've made Koudelka 2 with the rough edges smoothed out though, I kind of love the idea of horror-RPGs. The hilariously obscure Japan-exclusive Dreamcast game deSPIRIA is one of the few that come to mind, that game purposefully evokes uncanny valley something fierce and is like some bizarre and weirdly sexual fever dream that I'm still not entirely convinced actually exists. That deSPIRA looks kinda neat in an utterly nightmarish way. I like unorthodox horror stuff, and that looks pretty out there. Kikuta actually had story concepts for possible direct sequels to Koudelka (as opposed to Shadow Hearts semi-spinoff nature) if the game had been successful enough - and they carry on the tone of this game - but it's way to early to talk about that yet. If nothing else, the whole series, even Koudelka, has pretty great grotesque monster designs. Giant fleas and bugs are just a scratch of the surface.
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Mar 24, 2018 19:03
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ultrafilter posted:The original Shadow Hearts is the best game in the series, even if the sequels do some things better (and in some cases a lot better). Everything just came together in the right way there. Agreed. Shadow Hearts 1 balances humor and horror in a way that really no other jRPG out there does. A lot of that is helped by its absolutely fantastic soundtrack (first battle theme aside).
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Mar 24, 2018 19:36
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So it's a game that relies almost completely on RNG drops from enemies for weapons, and almost every weapon in the game has a durability meter, and there's no way to repair a weapon or upkeep its durability. I'm starting to see why this game wasn't popular. I don't think I've ever seen a fun durability mechanic in a game, but this seems particularly morbid. I really don't like games where enemy knockback only means you have to reposition your own characters to attack again, but sure why not it's not like this game has a good game mechanic so why start now. I don't think I've seen a game where it's more practical to not bother with weapons at all and just punch things to death.
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Mar 25, 2018 01:15
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There's also no ingame way of knowing what an enemy can drop - enemies do have specific item drops, but you have to know what enemy has what, where that enemy can be found (some will only appear in set areas and on set screens), hopefully encounter it, and pray to the RNG that they'll drop it. The one "grace" the devs gave is that all dropped weapons have a minimum break limit of 15 hits, so you'll never pick up a weapon that'll break after a single hit. Also, I'm not 100% sure, but levelling up the weapon proficiency seems to add to the durability countdown. So the higher the proficiency, the quicker the weapons will break. It's hard to test with the whole RNG aspect of the system though. Oh, and there's no way of knowing an enemy's element attribute, visual or otherwise, without actually attacking them with a weapon/spell and seeing if it does any damage, or takes reduced damage (which is a thing in this game), or absorbed (also a thing), or heals the enemy - because all weapons have some kind of element to them. Pesky Splinter fucked around with this message at 01:39 on Mar 25, 2018 |
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Mar 25, 2018 01:34
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I am suddenly extremely glad I went and played the tank game instead when I was a kid
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Mar 25, 2018 01:35
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Pesky Splinter posted:There's also no ingame way of knowing what an enemy can drop - enemies do have specific item drops, but you have to know what enemy has what, where that enemy can be found (some will only appear in set areas and on set screens), hopefully encounter it, and pray to the RNG that they'll drop it. Despite all of this, though, the game does drop a lot of weapons for you to use over time. I don't think I've had a run in this game where the paucity of drops was such that I had nothing to use. I believe weapon proficiency is directly tied to character STR, so the higher that stat is, the more likely a weapon will break. Ubiquitous_ fucked around with this message at 02:55 on Mar 25, 2018 |
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Mar 25, 2018 02:49
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That is, uh, quite the battle system goddamn
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Mar 25, 2018 03:07
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Ubiquitous_ posted:Despite all of this, though, the game does drop a lot of weapons for you to use over time. I don't think I've had a run in this game where the paucity of drops was such that I had nothing to use. Oh yeah, there's pretty much zero playthroughs where the player is reduced to just the pistol or fists. Now amour on the other hand  That'd make sense. As TDI and others have said, it's quite a complex system for something that can be breezed through in half a day or so.
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Mar 25, 2018 03:30
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I think this series is where Yoko Taro got his inspiration for Weapon Stories considering every character, weapon, monster and item has background info.
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Mar 25, 2018 05:05
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HR12345 posted:I think this series is where Yoko Taro got his inspiration for Weapon Stories considering every character, weapon, monster and item has background info. And a lot of it is crazy as hell and great.
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Mar 25, 2018 05:15
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I fully support any and all attempts to communicate with various spirrims, spectres, and spictrims entirely through the fist.
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Mar 25, 2018 05:24
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HR12345 posted:I think this series is where Yoko Taro got his inspiration for Weapon Stories considering every character, weapon, monster and item has background info. Every item. 
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Mar 25, 2018 05:26
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Ah yes, the gay porn trading cards of Shadow Hearts 2.
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Mar 25, 2018 05:39
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For years the only thing I knew about Shadow Hearts was it was the JRPG series set in WWI-era Europe where you collected gay porn.
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Mar 25, 2018 06:08
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Bad Seafood posted:For years the only thing I knew about Shadow Hearts was it was the JRPG series set in WWI-era Europe where you collected gay porn. ah yes "search his flower pot for gay porn"
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Mar 25, 2018 06:15
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