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Apologies, you are right and I am wrong. I should not have gone off of memory without looking it up.
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Mar 26, 2018 16:54
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It's a weird phase out, so I understand people getting it wrong. Full credit: Quarter in which 200,000th car is sold, plus following quarter. Half credit: Next two quarters. Quarter credit: Two more quarters. This gets muddled of course when people (including myself) talked about how Tesla or any other maker could game the system by selling up to number 199,999 in one quarter, and just stockpiling cars, or selling to other countries until day 1 of the next quarter. Thus getting "two quarters of the full credit."
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Mar 26, 2018 17:02
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Yeah, basically they need to hit it Sunday or July 1st for best effect. Sometime during Q2 would not surprise me at all.
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Mar 26, 2018 17:16
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So the credit is per vehicle, company, or total EVs sold?
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Mar 26, 2018 17:55
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I believe it's the total number of EVs sold by the company. So it includes all the Roadsters and Models S, X and 3 sold to date.
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Mar 26, 2018 18:09
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The limit is per company.
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Mar 26, 2018 18:14
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Yes, limit is per company. Only cars sold in the US count toward the limit.
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Mar 26, 2018 18:24
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borkencode posted:Given the tenuous cash situation Tesla is in, I don't see them rushing to start selling the lowest margin version over more profitable options.
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Mar 26, 2018 22:34
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El Grillo posted:What's the story with this? It's hard to find any coverage of Tesla that isn't significantly biased one way or the other. Basically, Tesla has been going through cash like crazy, their revenue from selling cars/battery packs/solar panels doesn't cover their expenses. They've also been building factories and buying robots, etc. This all depletes their big pile of money, which they can replenish by issuing debt, or creating more shares of stock. Bulls think everything will work out fine, with Tesla turning a profitably quarter before the big pile of money runs out, and/or having no problem issuing more stock to an adoring stock market. Bears think Tesla sucks at making cars, and nobody will be giving them money to fix the sucking at making cars problem, and everything will blow up in Elon's face. Which scenario plays out hinges heavily on Tesla cranking out Model 3s in the manner befitting a car with a 400,000 person wait-list.
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Mar 27, 2018 00:27
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^^ah right, I thought perhaps something new had happened! It definitely is crunch time and things seem to be going about as badly as they could have with model 3 production. But they are back on an increasing production rate curve now it seems, so here's hoping they keep it up.. Some day it will be really interesting to hear (if we ever do) about exactly what went wrong over the past half a year or so that have them such headaches. The most I've heard so far is that there have been problems with their automation at gigafactory and the model 3 line.
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Mar 27, 2018 00:43
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One advantage they have over other EV makers is the supercharger network. That can't be cheap to build up, but I feel like it's money well spent. If they're blowing through cash, but they have the only viable coast-to-coast charging network in north america, I think investors will be willing to keep them propped up.
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Mar 27, 2018 00:55
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As long as their receivership trustee keeps the Supercharger lights on, I can ride it out.
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Mar 27, 2018 00:57
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That supercharger network also needs to be significantly built out to handle the increased demand from Model 3s. There are already wait times at lots of the superchargers just from S and X owners.
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Mar 27, 2018 02:42
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Eh, I'm willing to forgive the production issues and honestly put myself down on the list for a Model 3.  The challenge is that the only other EVs I'll ever be able to afford with a 200+ mile range is the Chevy Bolt, and after my experiences with Chevy dealerships and the news about GM and other makes now pressing the Trump administration to relax fuel efficiency rules I got the feeling they're not taking the Bolt seriously and think they'll kill it off the day Tesla dies (or sooner than that), and write this whole thing off as a fad.GM and Ford, being American companies, will put off taking anything seriously until the day comes where gasoline stops being so cheap and the Japanese, Koreans and Europeans start ripping them into pieces sales-wise. Today's profits mean more than longevity in the US markets held hostage by hosed-up short-term shareholders, and I've got the feeling their accountants realize that bribing a few politicians with millions to have them write truck-friendly emissions laws is a better ROI than actually doing real R&D and preparing for the future. Edit: bawfuls posted:That supercharger network also needs to be significantly built out to handle the increased demand from Model 3s. There are already wait times at lots of the superchargers just from S and X owners. Yeah this is gonna be the problem with adoption where people don't want to install chargers in their houses, or apartment complexes installing chargers in general, and everyone relies on quick-charging technology. It's going to take an embarrassingly long amount of time to break people out of that habit. If I had more than two dimes to rub together I'd be figuring out a cheap, effective way to install shitloads of chargers in apartment complexes and start getting that poo poo out there pronto. funeral home DJ fucked around with this message at 02:49 on Mar 27, 2018 |
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Mar 27, 2018 02:43
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If I had the money I'd reserve my own model 3 in a heartbeat - though I probably wouldn't buy one until they fix the UI which by all accounts still has a lot of problems at this stage.
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Mar 27, 2018 09:16
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El Grillo posted:If I had the money I'd reserve my own model 3 in a heartbeat - though I probably wouldn't buy one until they fix the UI which by all accounts still has a lot of problems at this stage. Well, also when they fix some other things. It sounds like it's been a frustrating experience for some owners. https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/87dagd/evidence_of_rust_on_a_model_3_door/ The poster has some sort of rust substance accumulating on his door. When asked about his service center visits so far, he writes: quote:Three so far. MCU replacement (screen corruption), suspension swap (bouncy ride in <~2500 vin cars), steering rack play issues causing clunks over choppy roads (not yet fixed as the revised part doesn’t exist yet), steering assist reduced error that was intermittent but fixed but has returned as of tonight, creaky phone tray hinge (I’m not overly picky but this one was even annoying the service tech), dash defrost vent cover creaking, charge port door cover not always closing (misaligned - contacts painted surface), broken fender clips on frunk surround, and an intermittent cell data dropout issue that happens roughly every other day and has persisted through 3 service visits and 6 firmwares.
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Mar 27, 2018 14:13
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His other reply seems like a rather large indictment of the $50k car they bought:quote:Biggest problem for me is I bought this car for my wife to daily drive to college (80 miles away), but I can’t exactly swap cars with her only to have to relay a constant string of issues and coordinate getting it to the service center (an hour drive in the opposite direction of the college). I need it to ‘be right’ and stable enough for her to daily before I turn it over to her. So far its been 2 months and three service center visits and we have still not been able to use this car for its intended purpose.
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Mar 27, 2018 14:41
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That could be anything, though. For a couple of years now I haven't dared take my jeep too far off the road given it's proclivity for radiator failures (4), and the electrical wig-outs that I've finally fixed.
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Mar 27, 2018 15:10
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Godholio posted:That could be anything, though. I get this idea but it’s literally a 50k new car. There are 15k new cars that work right off the lot and have no problems. This shouldn’t be happening. I would be apoplectic if I spent that much money on a new car and had these issues. Ya gotta be able to daily a new car!
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Mar 27, 2018 15:40
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I'm not saying Tesla doesn't have some initial quality issues. That said, I've never found the whole "I payed x for y thing! This isn't acceptable!" To be a compelling argument. Anything you buy should work right out of the box, but that's often not the case with new products. Let's not pretend that established carmakers haven't had some pretty high profile failures. Cooling systems shouldn't be eating their plastic parts as a snack, rear subframes shouldn't be cracking, batteries shouldn't be treated as disposable every oil change, window regulators and coilpacks shouldn't be a yearly wear item, engine bearings shouldn't go after a few years and kill an engine (this one is broad enough to cover several manufactures). What's important is if the issues get fixed and if they process improves to prevent them in future cars.
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Mar 27, 2018 15:59
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bull3964 posted:I'm not saying Tesla doesn't have some initial quality issues. That said, I've never found the whole "I payed x for y thing! This isn't acceptable!" To be a compelling argument. Easy to say about other people’s money. Also: McStephenson posted:Ya gotta be able to daily a new car!
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Mar 27, 2018 16:41
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One or two problems with a brand new car design are normal. 10 different issues in the first month, across every part of the car, are not. Things like "steering rack has play, can't fix yet because the replacement part doesn't exist" are absolutely not acceptable, and if a situation like that persists for more than I think a month or two you can use it to trigger California's lemon law.
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Mar 27, 2018 16:59
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It's unclear if there were any issues beyond one ones mentioned. If that's the full list of problems, nothing there prevents daily driving the car. HE, didn't want to hand over the car to his wife while there were any existing issues and that is preventing it from being used as a daily driver. Again, I'm not saying it's unreasonable to expect these initial quality problems to be fixed quickly, but nothing listed there is something that keeps the car from being driven 80 miles a day. Sagebrush posted:Things like "steering rack has play, can't fix yet because the replacement part doesn't exist" are absolutely not acceptable, and if a situation like that persists for more than I think a month or two you can use it to trigger California's lemon law. Tell that to the hundreds of thousands of people waiting on airbag replacements right now.
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Mar 27, 2018 17:00
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Anyone go through the process of getting your $1,000 deposit back from Tesla on the Model 3? How annoying is this going to be to do?
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Mar 27, 2018 18:28
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io_burn posted:Anyone go through the process of getting your $1,000 deposit back from Tesla on the Model 3? How annoying is this going to be to do? I did. My wife expected some delay with her reservation, but when "late 2017" became "Oh, maybe spring 2018 I guess or like December 2018 if you dont want the All Options version" she peaced out and got an i3. We cancelled the reservation in mid-December. I was one of those folks that waited outside of the dealership yo sight unseen reserve. I emailed Tesla support in early March because we hadn't heard anything (and the Tesla account we had was gone by then). A very helpful rep had a check NextDay'd to us within a week of the email. Not sure of theu sent it to our old address (had already updated mailing and billing with Tesla) but it was resolved fairly quickly once I contacted them. So if you dont get it back soonish (especially true of your reservation is a year or so old), expect some waiting and some work on your part.
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Mar 27, 2018 18:48
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Yep, I'm in the same boat. Was in the first 100 people standing in line outside my Tesla store, still don't have a solid date for when I can even order my car and meanwhile the endless Rev A bugs and manufacturing issues has me super limp on the idea of dumping $60k on this stupid car. Good to know it's not a hassle I guess.
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Mar 27, 2018 18:54
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I mean, it's kind of annoying that I can get a refund from Amazon within a day, but the Tech Car Gurucorp apparently hand-inspects every refund or something and the pace is glacial. Some folks wait more than 3 months because they apparently dole out refunds in waves. So it's a little annoying those 1,000 bucks are just in the ether for a while.
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Mar 27, 2018 19:01
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They can hardly make cars, what makes you think they can write checks?
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Mar 27, 2018 19:07
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FilthyImp posted:I mean, it's kind of annoying that I can get a refund from Amazon within a day, but the Tech Car Gurucorp apparently hand-inspects every refund or something and the pace is glacial. It's because they put all those "fully refundable" deposits into their free cash 
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Mar 27, 2018 19:12
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Sagebrush posted:It's because they put all those "fully refundable" deposits into their free cash What other company could pull that off?
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Mar 27, 2018 20:26
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Maybe Theranos.
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Mar 27, 2018 20:35
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Sagebrush posted:I think you should get the red one, because I have a red car and there aren't enough goddamned bright colored cars on the road. 1) resale value, because people are boring, and don't buy cars for themselves. They buy them to sell, apparently. 2) bright paints are more expensive, though red is typically one of the more expensive pigments, too. Read an article on Jalopnik or something about that. KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:supposedly it's hard to get the right colors with environmentally friendly pigments and water based paints That also ties into the bright colors, which are harder to do with waterborne low-VOC paints. But mostly resale value. edit: not the article I read mentioned above, but similar: http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/design/2011/10/car_paint_colors_why_are_so_many_cars_painted_white_silver_and_b.html
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Mar 27, 2018 21:28
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buying a depreciating asset (which has inherent value of its own, i.e. it gets you from place to place) specifically to maximize its resale value is the dumbest poo poo
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Mar 27, 2018 21:35
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the resale value argument is interesting because at a certain inflection point with a rare or desirable car weird colors become popular eg an Interlagos blue E46 M3 fetches a better resale than a silver E46 M3 ceteris paribus
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Mar 27, 2018 21:38
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Sagebrush posted:buying a depreciating asset (which has inherent value of its own, i.e. it gets you from place to place) specifically to maximize its resale value is the dumbest poo poo Agreed.... I give absolutely zero shits about resale value. I buy a car because it is what I want to drive. What, if anything, I get out of it when I get rid of it has no bearing on my buying decision. And now that I think about it.. in my entire driving "career" I have never actually sold or traded in a vehicle. It was either given away to a family member in need, or a write off.
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Mar 27, 2018 22:06
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:the resale value argument is interesting because at a certain inflection point with a rare or desirable car weird colors become popular Sure but what about that snot yellow colour they also came in?
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Mar 27, 2018 22:26
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:the resale value argument is interesting because at a certain inflection point with a rare or desirable car weird colors become popular Same for the M Coupes, a yellow one costs a mint.
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Mar 28, 2018 02:07
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Curious about the Model X crash. The entire front end separated at the point where a traditional firewall is and fully opened the cabin.
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Mar 28, 2018 22:52
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BlackMK4 posted:Curious about the Model X crash. The entire front end separated at the point where a traditional firewall is and fully opened the cabin. Had to google it: https://www.thestar.com/business/2018/03/28/tesla-shares-drop-as-questions-around-fatal-model-x-crash-in-california-continue-to-swirl.html (a lot of things are lovely in the tech world, but the "put recent news events top in search query" is pretty drat good) Yeah, the front fell off.  But I don't think it did so in a way where EVs are fragile and ICE cars are strong. Modern cars don't really have a "firewall" like the word suggests, and can have their fronts ripped off too: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2295116/Spring-break-smash-leaves-Ohio-girls-dead-seven-injured-Florida.htmlThe missing huge windscreen also adds to the visual impact.
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Mar 28, 2018 23:18
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Ola posted:Yeah, the front fell off.
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Mar 28, 2018 23:56
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