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 Please don't look at this image if you're Curtis LeMay
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Mar 27, 2018 14:33
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What was the ratio of rest to frontline combat usually like, then? Ideally, that is - I assume that few people are rotating back when a major offensive is underway.
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Mar 27, 2018 15:12
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HEY GUNS posted:what if the horse is trained for war I'm not super familiar with war horse training, but I imagine the horse could gently caress a bear up - as long as it doesn't let the bear get too close I'm watching a BBC nature doc on the oceans on netflix and in the polar seas episode, they film a polar bear fishing for beluga whales
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Mar 27, 2018 15:17
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I have no idea if it is realistic or not but the swordfighting in Kingdom Come is awesome and kind of terrifying depending on situation. Also I like how armor is actually really important and you can't just make some pussy with a rapier and a puffy white shirt a viable combat alternative.
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Mar 27, 2018 15:20
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Nebakenezzer posted:I'm not super familiar with war horse training, but I imagine the horse could gently caress a bear up - as long as it doesn't let the bear get too close 
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Mar 27, 2018 15:20
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Nebakenezzer posted:I'm not super familiar with war horse training, but I imagine the horse could gently caress a bear up - as long as it doesn't let the bear get too close https://www.bearbiology.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/Wyman_13.pdf My money is on the bear.
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Mar 27, 2018 15:26
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Always bet on the bear.
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Mar 27, 2018 15:27
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Tomn posted:What was the ratio of rest to frontline combat usually like, then? Ideally, that is - I assume that few people are rotating back when a major offensive is underway. I can speak more to WWI: How much time they were up in the front lines depended on a lot of factors like their nationality (different militaries had different schedules) or how "hot" the fighting was. If the sector was quiet they'd spend a good amount of their time in the rear doing tedious make-work jobs like polishing boots or cleaning gear or doing close order drill (or, rarely, practical field training). Then they'd rotate to second-line trenches, then later on move up to the front, then back to the rear, only to repeat the process. Most men would only spend about 1/4 to 1/3 of their time on the front lines. But WWI was different from WWII; I suspect more static periods of the war followed a similar pattern, but during an offensive everyone would have been committed.
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Mar 27, 2018 15:53
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This draught horse talk reminds me that when I was growing up, regular beer deliveries in Wandsworth were still conducted by horse-drawn drays. Even thought they were cheaper to run than vans the brewery stopped using horses day-to-day because some dickhead attacked one of the horses because he was angry at being stuck behind a dray as it was unloaded. Then the brewery was sold, and now the site is being turned into a yuppie gated community with an onsite loving "nanobrewery" because modernity is overrated.
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Mar 27, 2018 15:57
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zoux posted:Always bet on the bear. What if the bear is fighting a shark?
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Mar 27, 2018 15:59
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Cessna posted:What if the bear is fighting a shark? Technically we are still conducting a gas attack against the polar bear lines to our North it's just carbon dioxide instead of, say, phosgene.
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Mar 27, 2018 16:07
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FAUXTON posted:Technically we are still conducting a gas attack against the polar bear lines to our North it's just carbon dioxide instead of, say, phosgene. Many years ago I used to do GIS/environmental data work at a wildlife refuge. One of the biologists was a really quiet, dour person who never really engaged in conversation. I think he said maybe a dozen words per year. A couple of other co-workers started talking about one of those Animal Planet shows and somehow "bear vs. shark" came up. The quiet guy just went off. "Holy poo poo, shark! Are you crazy? Shark! SHARK! How think anything else!! gently caress you guys, shark!!!" It was like his personal trigger-issue, just waiting to go off, and when it came up he just exploded.
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Mar 27, 2018 16:15
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Cessna posted:
This is very much a Rome v Carthage situation, by which I mean that the bear should grow a long beak to hold the shark in place.
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Mar 27, 2018 16:18
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Cessna posted:Many years ago I used to do GIS/environmental data work at a wildlife refuge. One of the biologists was a really quiet, dour person who never really engaged in conversation. I think he said maybe a dozen words per year. I mean, sharks have spent like 250 million years honing their genes against their environment to be as perfect as predator as is naturally possible. Bears? Idk how long they've been working at it but they think it's okay to just stand on top of a waterfall and wait for a salmon to jump into their mouth
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Mar 27, 2018 16:19
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Ursa delendo est
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Mar 27, 2018 16:19
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Bear vs Shark is the animal kingdom equivalent of Taliban vs IRA.
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Mar 27, 2018 16:19
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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FAUXTON posted:I mean, sharks have spent like 250 million years honing their genes against their environment to be as perfect as predator as is naturally possible. Fight smarter, not harder
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Mar 27, 2018 16:21
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Ainsley McTree posted:Fight smarter, not harder Sharks have unlimited magazine-fed teeth and thunderdome wombs and their blood cures cancer
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Mar 27, 2018 16:25
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Tias posted:I just re-read Ivan's War, and the soviets did.. not handle it great. The German Wehrmacht used a system where you would get electro shocks until you suddenly decided to go back to the front. Those were then counted as "cured". If you were too messed up to respond to this torture with a working flight reflex, you got more electro shock "therapy". And then some more. And more. After some point, drugs and insane asylum. As far as I remember, the entire system operated on this unspoken assumption that the underlying psychological issues simply did not exist
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Mar 27, 2018 16:26
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Cessna posted:I can speak more to WWI: How much time they were up in the front lines depended on a lot of factors like their nationality (different militaries had different schedules) or how "hot" the fighting was. If the sector was quiet they'd spend a good amount of their time in the rear doing tedious make-work jobs like polishing boots or cleaning gear or doing close order drill (or, rarely, practical field training). Then they'd rotate to second-line trenches, then later on move up to the front, then back to the rear, only to repeat the process. Most men would only spend about 1/4 to 1/3 of their time on the front lines. WWII varies enormously depending on the situation, time period and nationality. A large number of US troops spent 2 years in the US/UK after being mobilised before before ever being sent into combat, while German troops on the late Eastern Front would be lucky to get any kind of leave at all. There are plenty of stories of German troops repeatedly being sent to get onto leave trains, only for an officer to start reading off a list of units that were being sent back to the front because of some new crisis.
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Mar 27, 2018 16:41
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Mr Enderby posted:some dickhead attacked one of the horses because he was angry at being stuck behind a dray as it was unloaded. not the smartest move for a human
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Mar 27, 2018 17:52
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HEY GUNS posted:this is 
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Mar 27, 2018 17:56
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Mongo aside from being pawn in game of life is more of a force of nature.
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Mar 27, 2018 19:06
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HEY GUNS posted:what if the horse is trained for war Pandas gently caress just fine in the wild. Zoos are a massive turn off for most large mammals, and Pandas just find them exceptionally un-sexy. There's a reason modern horse breeding is all about artificial insemination. Speaking of spending years in the UK before going off to the front, how much training did Kitchener's army receive? Were they still Kitchener's mob when they started fighting serious battles?
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Mar 27, 2018 19:15
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PittTheElder posted:Bear vs Shark is the animal kingdom equivalent of Taliban vs IRA. the question is which is which
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Mar 27, 2018 19:33
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Taliban are sharks, bears are IRA. I'm not even sure how this is in question.
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Mar 27, 2018 20:33
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Cyrano4747 posted:Taliban are sharks, bears are IRA. I'm not even sure how this is in question. Where do Moose fall in this system?
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Mar 27, 2018 20:36
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Jobbo_Fett posted:Where do Moose fall in this system? Parti Québécois. Annoying as gently caress, but ultimately pretty harmless. Best ignored and left to their own devices in whatever swamp or tundra they're stomping around in at the moment.
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Mar 27, 2018 20:38
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Mr Enderby posted:https://www.bearbiology.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/Wyman_13.pdf Bison / Muskeg cataphracts  Muskeg form Schiltrom formations in nature, so that works I looked up cataphracts on wikipedia and I'm surprised they actually did work as heavy horse with lances - earlier cataphracts have four horn saddles, later ones actually strap themselves to the saddle. I imagine this sucks if your horse is killed. (I know stirrups allow medieval knights to change with a lance one handed and have a shield, but I'm wondering if another big advantage is that if the horse is killed in under you, you have a non-zero change of avoiding injury.)
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Mar 27, 2018 20:48
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Monocled Falcon posted:Isn't that how the lowest rank of Roman nobility got their name. Equites were a republican invention just so we are clear. They were the first rank of plebians who were conscripted to cavalry based on a wealth threshold - so yes, in some ways they were so called because they were rich and could afford a horse and gear. The use of Equites as cavalry peaked during the Punic wars; later on they were not drafted as cavalry although they were technically eligible. Why? Roman cavalry was absolute garbage, like English levels of bad, so it was way better to hire Dacians or Numidians or literally any other allied peoples. Financing poo poo. Paying other people to fight, paying for equipment for other people to fight, paying for/providing other materiel (food, clothing, horses, etc) to enable other people to fight.
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Mar 27, 2018 20:50
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Victor Hutchinson's POW Diary Tuesday 27th March, 1945 Very jaded this morning and spent the morning in the pit abstaining from breakfast and soup. But what with the tin bashing and being showered with sawdust from the occupant above, I bestirred myself and meandered around the compound. Met Tom & Hank and spent a strenuous half hour trying to convince Tom that we would be home before my birthday. He conceded that it was a possibility and that he just felt a little ‘browned off ‘ and wanted to be reassured. A dearth of air-raids today. Rumour –Kesselring making peace overtures to Churchill.
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Mar 27, 2018 20:53
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Anybody who is not absolutely loving terrified of the idea of being an infantryman facing cavalry has obviously never seen a horse in person. My brother owns a couple of horses, a relatively small mare and a giant quarterhorse stallion. I know the little one is more likely for the time, and there's a fence, and they'll stop, they're just coming to get petted, it's still loving terrifying seeing either of them run at me. And that's just a friendly horse, train it to kill* and put a dude with a pistol and saber on its back, that'd make me want to join the Navy. *aren't horses one of the few large animals that will try their best to avoid running over a person in a stampede, and so have to be specially trained to trample people for cav? Not because of any concern for us, but because they have very fragile legs, I assume. As opposed to the various bovines, who want nothing more than to dance upon us with their pointy hooves. bewbies posted:I have no idea if it is realistic or not but the swordfighting in Kingdom Come is awesome and kind of terrifying depending on situation. Also I like how armor is actually really important and you can't just make some pussy with a rapier and a puffy white shirt a viable combat alternative.
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Mar 27, 2018 21:08
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Bad Angus! Bad!
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Cyrano4747 posted:Parti Québécois. Annoying as gently caress, but ultimately pretty harmless. Best ignored and left to their own devices in whatever swamp or tundra they're stomping around in at the moment.  KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:Equites were a republican invention just so we are clear. They were the first rank of plebians who were conscripted to cavalry based on a wealth threshold - so yes, in some ways they were so called because they were rich and could afford a horse and gear. Also, often the order is reversed with these things. When rulers and states identified poor people who, for whatever reason, knew how fight from the back of a horse, they usually started handing out lands and income to keep those people loyal and available for use. Pretty quickly those people accumulated enough
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Mar 27, 2018 21:09
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Comrade Gorbash posted:To riff off this, I think there's often a warped view of what "rich" means in this context. When you're talking about low-ranking martial nobility, for the most part they're much more akin to an upper-middle class professional. That's still very well off to be sure, but we're talking about someone who'd be in the same tax bracket at your dentist, not a CEO. That's true in some casws, but not in the case if the Roman equites. When Gracchus made then a distinct class from the senators, the wealth requirement was such that they were, after the senators, the richest class in Rome
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Mar 27, 2018 21:22
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golden bubble posted:Speaking of spending years in the UK before going off to the front, how much training did Kitchener's army receive? Were they still Kitchener's mob when they started fighting serious battles? If you want to be crude and unsophisticated, you can divide the BEF into five periods neatly delineated by year and main source of manpower: 1914: The pre-war regulars 1915: The pre-war Territorial Army 1916: The New Armies 1917: The conscripts 1918: Whoever was left New Army battalions began arriving on active service in the second half of 1915. If you were very unlucky, this meant that you got sent to Suvla Bay and shat yourself to death in November. If you were slightly unlucky, this meant that you got sent to Loos and drowned in a mud-filled shell crater in October. The majority of men who signed up and got put into a New Army battalion would spend between six and nine months training in England; then another month or two training at a rear-area depot in France; then up the line in a quiet sector like Plugstreet for a month or two; then another month of rest and training; then up the line somewhere nearer the Somme; then they all disappeared somewhere in front of Thiepval. (The Memorial to the Missing got put there for a reason.) Their training was about as good as could have been expected from an army that was rapidly swelling to eight times its usual size without ever having planned to do anything of the sort. There were severe shortages of just about everything up to summer 1915 as the Empire suddenly found itself having to create the logistics to supply two million men in France while also running a lot of very silly and resource-intensive campaigns in other places. Some of the training was pretty good; some of it was shite and perfunctory; but if you're looking at the reasons for why the Somme went the way it did, failings in training for the blokes is vvv way down there somewhere vvv on the list.
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Mar 27, 2018 21:24
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Mr Enderby posted:This draught horse talk reminds me that when I was growing up, regular beer deliveries in Wandsworth were still conducted by horse-drawn drays. Even thought they were cheaper to run than vans the brewery stopped using horses day-to-day because some dickhead attacked one of the horses because he was angry at being stuck behind a dray as it was unloaded. I was at a brewery in Bruges and was told the opposite. The brewery switched to trucks because it was cheaper, but the delivery drivers were up in arms because they hated the trucks. The horses knew the delivery routes, and so the drivers would toss back a gratis glass of beer at each stop, and rely on the horses to get them home even if they took a nap along the way. FAUXTON posted:Sharks have unlimited magazine-fed teeth and thunderdome wombs and their blood cures cancer Plus a shark's skin is so smooth I don't know how the bear would get a grip.
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Mar 27, 2018 21:25
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HEY GUNS posted:hahaha they're loving tiny this owns I'm Icelandic. I first saw a foreign horse when I was like eight and saw mounted police abroad and freaked out a bit because they were riding GIANT MONSTER HORSES Geisladisk fucked around with this message at 21:52 on Mar 27, 2018 |
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Mar 27, 2018 21:48
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Phanatic posted:I was at a brewery in Bruges and was told the opposite. The brewery switched to trucks because it was cheaper, but the delivery drivers were up in arms because they hated the trucks. The horses knew the delivery routes, and so the drivers would toss back a gratis glass of beer at each stop, and rely on the horses to get them home even if they took a nap along the way. See if you could sell this as DISRUPTION silicon valley style I bet uber would be interested Also the bear uses its giant teeth and claws to get ahold of slippery things
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Mar 27, 2018 21:51
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Epicurius posted:That's true in some casws, but not in the case if the Roman equites. When Gracchus made then a distinct class from the senators, the wealth requirement was such that they were, after the senators, the richest class in Rome
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Mar 27, 2018 22:28
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Delivery McGee posted:Anybody who is not absolutely loving terrified of the idea of being an infantryman facing cavalry has obviously never seen a horse in person. My brother owns a couple of horses, a relatively small mare and a giant quarterhorse stallion. I know the little one is more likely for the time, and there's a fence, and they'll stop, they're just coming to get petted, it's still loving terrifying seeing either of them run at me. And that's just a friendly horse, train it to kill* and put a dude with a pistol and saber on its back, that'd make me want to join the Navy. But everyone knows horses are useless! quote:But if any of you is out of heart to think that we have no cavalry,
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Mar 27, 2018 22:41
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