PERSONA 5: The PS3 Version is the same and you cannot Youtube

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CJ: Jul 3, 2007; Asbungold

RazzleDazzleHour posted:

both

And Kanji's portrayal is, appropriately, very complex. I'll spoiler tag this just in case but they're really light spoilers and not related to the main story at all, but I'm gonna talk about Kanji a lot:

Kanji appears to be gay from what you'd see on the Midnight Channel, but further development turns out that it's less about being into guys and more about feeling more comfortable around them than women, who he finds judgmental and genuinely mean. This sort of conflicts with the fact that he's definitely attracted to the """""boy""""" he's talking to when you're following him around town, so for a large portion of the game his sexuality is meant to be interpreted by the player as gay. This changes when he finds out eventually that the aforementioned boy isn't a boy and so turns out he's straight, and from that point on it's openly acknowledged by the party that Kanji has a crush on Naoto and is not gay. I'm not really up on social politics or whatever, but I think that's a fine portrayal, but maybe blogs would refer to that as "problematic" or something, I'm not sure. The real complexity comes in the form of Yosuke, who CONSTANTLY shits on Kanji for being gay in a "ew we can't share the same tent on a school trip because ur gay" kind of way and is one of the main reasons people tend to hate Yosuke. However, as someone who works with teens, I think this is a pretty accurate portrayal of a high school guy - but the interesting thing is that the end result of that portrayal is people thinking Yosuke is an rear end in a top hat and being a lot more empathetic toward Kanji and the struggles he's going through, and it makes his whole "wanting to be accepted for who he is" plight a lot more apparent and relevant to the player when even your teammates aren't totally ready to accept him. I don't know if that was the dev's intentions when deciding the characters, but that's definitely the result I've noticed from people I've talked to who played the game.

It might also be that Yosuke was meant to be projecting, as there are sound files in the game for a romance option with him.

# ? Mar 29, 2018 00:20

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# ? Jun 4, 2024 20:12

HIJK: Nov 25, 2012; in the room where you sleep

Cuntellectual posted:

WRT homosexuality, apparently Yosuke was going to be a gay option at one point in development, based off of some files from TCRF from Yosuke that sounded like a romantic confession so... Who knows?

Yosuke being an asshat would make more sense if he was the gay option and the deal was you had to shake him out of it and he realized his feelings for the MC in the process....

....and I'm seethingly angry that we don't get that option again augh

# ? Mar 29, 2018 00:21

Cuntellectual: Aug 6, 2010

HIJK posted:

Yosuke being an asshat would make more sense if he was the gay option and the deal was you had to shake him out of it and he realized his feelings for the MC in the process....

....and I'm seethingly angry that we don't get that option again augh

There's spoilers farther down, but here's the page, for the curious. Yosuke's right at the top.

https://tcrf.net/Persona_4/Unused_Voice_Clips/Social_Links

# ? Mar 29, 2018 00:54

Kay Kessler: May 9, 2013

As someone who finished replaying Golden recently, I only remember Yosuke acting gross around Kanji twice, the campout scene and the famous "Please beat the poo poo out of me, Kanji" scene. And really the campout took place when they barely knew each other - he had absolutely no problem sharing a room and hot spring with Kanji at the Inn or the ski trip.

# ? Mar 29, 2018 01:39

FractalSandwich: Apr 25, 2010

Cuntellectual posted:

There's spoilers farther down, but here's the page, for the curious. Yosuke's right at the top.

https://tcrf.net/Persona_4/Unused_Voice_Clips/Social_Links

I hope that in another 10 years, someone in the know will tell us what really happened there.

# ? Mar 29, 2018 01:42

RazzleDazzleHour: Mar 31, 2016

Kay Kessler posted:

As someone who finished replaying Golden recently, I only remember Yosuke acting gross around Kanji twice, the campout scene and the famous "Please beat the poo poo out of me, Kanji" scene. And really the campout took place when they barely knew each other - he had absolutely no problem sharing a room and hot spring with Kanji at the Inn or the ski trip.

Those were both post-Naoto though!

# ? Mar 29, 2018 01:46

waah: Jun 20, 2011; Better stay in line when
You see a Pavel like me shinin

The best Persona boss theme is the 8 bit one . There are no other answers.

# ? Mar 29, 2018 15:26

Baku: Aug 20, 2005; by Fluffdaddy

The Yosuke stuff really didn't bother me. It's completely in line with the character's established personality and character flaws, and the game itself gives you options and opportunities to deliberately tease and troll him about it at least twice, iirc.

It doesn't feel like the writers agreed with Yosuke or that the player is meant to, and nothing he says or does is truly uncomfortable to watch. He's just a chauvinist dork trying to project manliness.

# ? Mar 29, 2018 15:34

HIJK: Nov 25, 2012; in the room where you sleep

Yosuke is very much a typical 16 year old shithead guy, and I give the scriptwriters kudos for not turning away or softening that while still being willing to punish him for it.

# ? Mar 29, 2018 17:05

NikkolasKing: Apr 3, 2010

Hunter Noventa posted:

What would you call the best? It's been a while since I've played 3 or 4 so I'm curious.

But it's certainly better than the actual final boss theme, I barely even remember that.

My choices for best Persona boss music:
1. Marie's version of I'll Face Myself

2. Persona 2 Final Boss Theme. It helps that Nyarl is really the only final boss who feels satisfying. Eternal Punishment was inferior to Innocent Sin in my view but taking down Nyarl at the end was so unbelievably cathartic. Favorite Personal final boss all-around. As for the music itself, it has this great blend of intimidation - representing just what a threat Nyarl is - while also throwing in a lot of inspiration - as Tatsuya said "I WILL DEFEAT YOU!!!"

3. Master of Shadow. I was so eager for each and every Full Moon Shadow boss so I could hear this theme. It's so unique and stylish and P3 being my first completed Persona game, it really stands out to me for that reason. It's so different from what you hear in Final Fantasy or whatever.

4. Rivers in the Desert. Everything with Shido felt like the real climax of P5 and that included him getting this awesome boss theme.

# ? Mar 29, 2018 19:46

Space Cadet Omoly: Jan 15, 2014; ~Groovy~

RazzleDazzleHour posted:

both

And Kanji's portrayal is, appropriately, very complex. I'll spoiler tag this just in case but they're really light spoilers and not related to the main story at all, but I'm gonna talk about Kanji a lot:

Kanji appears to be gay from what you'd see on the Midnight Channel, but further development turns out that it's less about being into guys and more about feeling more comfortable around them than women, who he finds judgmental and genuinely mean. This sort of conflicts with the fact that he's definitely attracted to the """""boy""""" he's talking to when you're following him around town, so for a large portion of the game his sexuality is meant to be interpreted by the player as gay. This changes when he finds out eventually that the aforementioned boy isn't a boy and so turns out he's straight, and from that point on it's openly acknowledged by the party that Kanji has a crush on Naoto and is not gay. I'm not really up on social politics or whatever, but I think that's a fine portrayal, but maybe blogs would refer to that as "problematic" or something, I'm not sure. The real complexity comes in the form of Yosuke, who CONSTANTLY shits on Kanji for being gay in a "ew we can't share the same tent on a school trip because ur gay" kind of way and is one of the main reasons people tend to hate Yosuke. However, as someone who works with teens, I think this is a pretty accurate portrayal of a high school guy - but the interesting thing is that the end result of that portrayal is people thinking Yosuke is an rear end in a top hat and being a lot more empathetic toward Kanji and the struggles he's going through, and it makes his whole "wanting to be accepted for who he is" plight a lot more apparent and relevant to the player when even your teammates aren't totally ready to accept him. I don't know if that was the dev's intentions when deciding the characters, but that's definitely the result I've noticed from people I've talked to who played the game.

See, here's why I dislike Kanji's arc: back when I first got Persona 4 I was a gay teen (I have since graduated to gay adult) and I was super excited to play it because I had heard that it was a game that had gay teens in it (like me!). Except then I actually played it and it turns out that not only are there not any gay teens in this game, but the one characters who it appeared was having an arc about realizing they were sexually attracted to people of the same gender (something I heavily related to) was actually having an arc about being AFRAID of experiencing same sex attraction but surprise it turn out he was straight all along! This pissed me off, in most tv shows and games and movies I knew better than to even hope that something genuinely gay would happen. Homosexuality was something that simply did not exist in the fictional worlds I enjoyed, the only gay narratives that existed were the ones I made up in my head. But in Persona 4 homosexuality was something that very clearly does exist in a very real way, and yet none of the characters are actually allowed to be gay. That hurt, having something like that brought up and discussed and then tossed aside hurt so much more than just not bringing it up at all. I wouldn't have a problem with Kanji's arc if one character, just one character in the game, was gay for real, but none of them are. Once again, despite all the teasing, the only gay narratives in this game were the ones I have to make up in my head.

Anyway, I'm older and wiser now and I know that if I want an LBGT friendly game I need to look for something that isn't made by Atlus because they have a long history of sucking at queer representation even if I find their games fun. I hope that changes in the future, but at this point I'm not sure that's a realistic hope to have.

And that's my two cents about that.

# ? Apr 3, 2018 12:10

ApplesandOranges: Jun 22, 2012; Thankee kindly.

My headcanon is that Kanji's pan, Daisuke's gay, and Kou is bi. That is all.

I think with P3-on the closest you'll get to a character that can be canonically of a non-hetero sexuality is Aigis.

# ? Apr 3, 2018 12:30

Space Cadet Omoly: Jan 15, 2014; ~Groovy~

ApplesandOranges posted:

My headcanon is that Kanji's pan, Daisuke's gay, and Kou is bi. That is all.

I think with P3-on the closest you'll get to a character that can be canonically of a non-hetero sexuality is Aigis.

Also Elizabeth.

# ? Apr 3, 2018 13:03

Skanker: Mar 21, 2013

My experience with P4 was identical, gay teen and all, and the anime soured P4 for me even further. P5 being what it was made me realize Persona might not be for me anymore. Good thing there's always Persona 2 to replay. :unsmith:

Skanker fucked around with this message at 13:09 on Apr 3, 2018

# ? Apr 3, 2018 13:07

Cuntellectual: Aug 6, 2010

Space Cadet Omoly posted:

Anyway, I'm older and wiser now and I know that if I want an LBGT friendly game I need to look for something that isn't made by Atlus because they have a long history of sucking at queer representation even if I find their games fun. I hope that changes in the future, but at this point I'm not sure that's a realistic hope to have.

And that's my two cents about that.

I dunno, I think the gay option in p2 was fine but I don't really remember it that well.

# ? Apr 3, 2018 18:49

Baku: Aug 20, 2005; by Fluffdaddy

I'm Queer as Hell and I thought Persona 4 was mostly fine in the context of what it was about, plus I appreciated it not just totally sweeping that stuff under the rug or handling it in a pathetically precious way like a lot of teen stuff. I know some peoples' experience is different tho, and for one I was older than the player characters and out of the closet and poo poo by the time I played it so it wasn't as sensitive a subject for me.

Lala is a cool character in Persona 5 imo; I love that she subverts that trope of a teenage boy being hijinxed into drag by being like "no, why the hell would I make you do that?". The dumb gay tourist guys are really cringy and unfunny tho.

# ? Apr 3, 2018 18:59

RazzleDazzleHour: Mar 31, 2016

wizard on a water slide posted:

The dumb gay tourist guys are really cringy and unfunny tho.

One day Japan will get the memo, hopefully. I remember Shadow Hearts for the PS2 having their sole comic relief character being pretty similar to this, and then in Shadow Hearts 2 they had three comic relief characters all behave that way.

Also I got walled by the boss of the final palace and gently caress that fight. He's got another one of the really annoying non-elemental skills that hit everyone for twice as much as their maximum HP even when everyone's fully buffed out and he's fully debuffed, meaning that aside from praying to dodge, there's basically no more strategy I can utilize and just need to go get some bigger numbers. I'm in Mementos right now on a Flu Season beginning to grind out the Reaper for some levels - it'll kill the challenge of the main game but the optional boss is there for that. I was considering not doing the despair trick, but I'm really glad I did because one fight only took me from level 53 to 60, so I think I might have one or two more fights left. I do have Strength maxed, so I can make some high-level personas, but I'll also need to cash grind to do that as well.

Merciless is 90% really fun, but the bosses a lot of times just suck. It's cool having to implement new strategies - I have one Persona whose main purpose is to use Confusion so that Haru can use Mapsio to technical every enemy. Unfortunately, starting with Okumura, every boss also has some gimmick attack that will wipe your party with no way of surviving it without getting a lucky dodge. Because of how much less damage you do, fights drag on longer, but instead of becoming more difficult because of the resource drain, it instead makes it harder because the enemy will have more chances to use the game over attack. The bosses combined with how much of a shitfest the first two palaces are mean that I'll probably never do another playthrough, meanwhile I've beaten P3P on the hardest difficulty like twice and wouldn't mind playing it again.

# ? Apr 3, 2018 20:33

CJ: Jul 3, 2007; Asbungold

I just did the part in Persona 3 where a trans woman tries to have her way with Junpei but is foiled by forgetting to shave part of her beard. Another L for the degenerates in their attempts to prey on upstanding japanese teenage boys.

# ? Apr 3, 2018 20:46

CJ: Jul 3, 2007; Asbungold

I like the bit in Persona where the girls put on bathing suits then my character and the other boys make them feel uncomfortable. It makes me feel powerful.

# ? Apr 3, 2018 20:52

Nathilus: Apr 4, 2002; I alone can see through the media bias.

I'm also stupid on a scale that can only be measured in Reddits.

Space Cadet Omoly posted:

And that's my two cents about that.

Don't ever expect a decent portrayal of non cishets from the japanese. Or at least not for another 20+ years. They are where the US was at on accepting alternate sexualities, back in the 80s.

# ? Apr 4, 2018 14:52

Zore: Sep 21, 2010; willfully illiterate, aggressively miserable sourpuss whose sole raison d�etre is to put other people down for liking the wrong things

Is Hard Gay still a thing on Japanese TV? His act was always really :catstare:

# ? Apr 4, 2018 15:06

RazzleDazzleHour: Mar 31, 2016

Nathilus posted:

Don't ever expect a decent portrayal of non cishets from the japanese. Or at least not for another 20+ years. They are where the US was at on accepting alternate sexualities, back in the 80s.

It seems like anime studios have figured out that girls dating girls is a no-brainer for success though, maybe video games are just behind on the times?

# ? Apr 4, 2018 15:14

irlZaphod: Mar 26, 2004; Kiss the Joycon to Kiss Zelda

RazzleDazzleHour posted:

It seems like anime studios have figured out that girls dating girls is a no-brainer for success though, maybe video games are just behind on the times?

That doesn't sound like a good portrayal of non-cishet people either though.

# ? Apr 4, 2018 15:24

Nathilus: Apr 4, 2002; I alone can see through the media bias.

I'm also stupid on a scale that can only be measured in Reddits.

RazzleDazzleHour posted:

It seems like anime studios have figured out that girls dating girls is a no-brainer for success though, maybe video games are just behind on the times?

Well I mean hell even gaynime often doesnt have a very good portrayal of homos. All the most famous dude-gay anime that I can think of are ~PROBLEMATIC~. Its "classy" older dudes raping their bottom gay and literal child grooming all the way down. Plus any portrayal of a gay character in a non-gay-smut anime is always forever played for laffs.

Sure these are hella non-unique arguments. Anime is terrible about portraying everyone all the time basically. But they're good for demonstrating that a few cutesy girlfriends anime do not mean the culture as a whole is getting noticably better at this sort of thing.

Its not a dealbreaker if yoyre already a weeb. But again, it goes to show you should definitely not expect a super progressive take on alternative sexualities cummin from japan.

# ? Apr 4, 2018 15:36

HIJK: Nov 25, 2012; in the room where you sleep

lotsa hot takes in this thread i like it

# ? Apr 4, 2018 17:34

waah: Jun 20, 2011; Better stay in line when
You see a Pavel like me shinin

If Japanese devs ever truly embrace gay dudes like they do big breasts, then we will have shaft and ball physics in our games and who really wants that I mean gosh it's so disgusting and I can't stop looking and oh God who doesn't want bouncing balls.

# ? Apr 4, 2018 18:05

Pablo Nergigante: Apr 16, 2002

waah posted:

If Japanese devs ever truly embrace gay dudes like they do big breasts, then we will have shaft and ball physics in our games and who really wants that I mean gosh it's so disgusting and I can't stop looking and oh God who doesn't want bouncing balls.

Someone hasn't played Conan Exiles.

# ? Apr 4, 2018 21:00

Max Wilco: Jan 23, 2012; I'm just trying to go through life without looking stupid.

It's not working out too well...

Pablo Nergigante posted:

Someone hasn't played Conan Exiles.

I think one of the Saint's Row games was going to do that too at one point, but they couldn't get the physics for it right.

# ? Apr 5, 2018 09:13

waah: Jun 20, 2011; Better stay in line when
You see a Pavel like me shinin

The P5 animation just released on Crunchy Roll. No word if it's any good yet.

# ? Apr 7, 2018 18:03

BlackFrost: Feb 6, 2008; Have you figured it out yet?

I'm a straight cis male but I read Kanji's thing as less being afraid of being gay and more just him coming to terms with being really uncomfortable around women, but yeah after reading the other takes in this thread I can see how disappointing it is. It really sucks to think of teenage kids seeing something so relatable only to have it turn around on them like that. Were Japanese reviewers as sour on 5 re: the gay tourists? If enough people brought it up maybe they'll change their tune for 6, but I doubt they care much about American reviewers.

None of this makes me super excited for the Catherine remaster since hints point to the third Catherine being trans, and they already don't do a terrific job with that in the game.

Anyway, speaking of P4G, asking here because I don't want to stumble into spoilers: is the "true ending" path in 4 as obvious as it is in 5, or is there something I should know before getting to like November/December?

# ? Apr 7, 2018 22:42

CJ: Jul 3, 2007; Asbungold

BlackFrost posted:

I'm a straight cis male but I read Kanji's thing as less being afraid of being gay and more just him coming to terms with being really uncomfortable around women, but yeah after reading the other takes in this thread I can see how disappointing it is. It really sucks to think of teenage kids seeing something so relatable only to have it turn around on them like that. Were Japanese reviewers as sour on 5 re: the gay tourists? If enough people brought it up maybe they'll change their tune for 6, but I doubt they care much about American reviewers.

None of this makes me super excited for the Catherine remaster since hints point to the third Catherine being trans, and they already don't do a terrific job with that in the game.

Anyway, speaking of P4G, asking here because I don't want to stumble into spoilers: is the "true ending" path in 4 as obvious as it is in 5, or is there something I should know before getting to like November/December?

It's infamous in how obscure it is if you are playing blind. I recommend you just rotate your saves then reload if you mess up rather than looking it up beforehand, if you mess up then you can just reload and keep going. It's one of the coolest parts of that game.

# ? Apr 7, 2018 22:47

BlackFrost: Feb 6, 2008; Have you figured it out yet?

So to clarify, it's obtuse but like is anything gonna drat me long before it happens or can i safely reload a few days back to de-gently caress things?

# ? Apr 7, 2018 23:03

CJ: Jul 3, 2007; Asbungold

BlackFrost posted:

So to clarify, it's obtuse but like is anything gonna drat me long before it happens or can i safely reload a few days back to de-gently caress things?

It's been a while since i've played it and i've never played Golden but i'm pretty sure you can't save after the point you get locked in, you'd just have to reload and sit through a bunch of cutscenes again. I think you can overwrite your save with a new game plus save, but you'd have to be extremely dumb to do that. There's nothing like you made a choice that will come back to gently caress you a month later though, no. Where are you up to exactly?

# ? Apr 7, 2018 23:08

Hunt11: Jul 24, 2013; Grimey Drawer

BlackFrost posted:

So to clarify, it's obtuse but like is anything gonna drat me long before it happens or can i safely reload a few days back to de-gently caress things?

With P4 there are two checks to make. The first check you may want a guide for when it shows up as it is possible to mess up and lock yourself out of a good end. The second check is the worst thing either as it is such a minor dialogue option that it is insanely easy to accidentally choose the option that locks you out of the best ending.

# ? Apr 7, 2018 23:21

BlackFrost: Feb 6, 2008; Have you figured it out yet?

CJ posted:

It's been a while since i've played it and i've never played Golden but i'm pretty sure you can't save after the point you get locked in, you'd just have to reload and sit through a bunch of cutscenes again. I think you can overwrite your save with a new game plus save, but you'd have to be extremely dumb to do that. There's nothing like you made a choice that will come back to gently caress you a month later though, no. Where are you up to exactly?

I just finished Mitsuo's dungeon and am killing time with buds. It's 8/05 or so. I'm just playing it safe just in case, haha. I rotate saves through all of the slots so it sounds like I should be OK. Thanks!

# ? Apr 7, 2018 23:31

NikkolasKing: Apr 3, 2010

BlackFrost posted:

Anyway, speaking of P4G, asking here because I don't want to stumble into spoilers: is the "true ending" path in 4 as obvious as it is in 5, or is there something I should know before getting to like November/December?

Are you playing Golden? Make sure to complete Marie's S Link by then if you want the true ending.

Also if you aren't playing P4G, you just missed the best boss theme
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjuormKijYw

And if you are playing P4G, enjoy hearing it again without having to worry about he rear end in a top hat boss. I got wiped first time around because he did Stagnant Air immediately followed by something that insta KO'ed my party.

NikkolasKing fucked around with this message at 23:51 on Apr 7, 2018

# ? Apr 7, 2018 23:47

FractalSandwich: Apr 25, 2010

BlackFrost posted:

Were Japanese reviewers as sour on 5 re: the gay tourists? If enough people brought it up maybe they'll change their tune for 6, but I doubt they care much about American reviewers.

Something like 60-75% of their sales came from the international market. You better believe they're paying attention.

# ? Apr 8, 2018 01:54

AG3: Feb 4, 2004; Ask me about spending hundreds of dollars on Mass Effect 2 emoticons and Avatars.; Oven Wrangler

Hunt11 posted:

The second check is the worst thing either as it is such a minor dialogue option that it is insanely easy to accidentally choose the option that locks you out of the best ending.

It's less bad in P4G than it was in the original, where the game would flat out tell you there was no point doing the required thing until you retried it 2 or 3 times. Now it just asks you if you're sure you want to do it and let's you go for it right away. You still have to actually try it, so in that sense it's hidden, but at least now it won't tell you that there's nothing there until you've tried multiple times.

AG3 fucked around with this message at 08:44 on Apr 8, 2018

# ? Apr 8, 2018 08:41

DOUBLE CLICK HERE: Feb 5, 2005; WA3

If anyone wanted to check out the anime adaptation, the first episode's free on Crunchyroll. The music is straight off the game's OST so at least that remains excellent.

# ? Apr 8, 2018 10:23

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# ? Jun 4, 2024 20:12

Endorph: Jul 22, 2009

There's some really great individual shots, too, since it has a good director.

# ? Apr 8, 2018 22:29

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > PERSONA 5: The PS3 Version is the same and you cannot Youtube

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