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lobster22221 posted:How much of Arthas's will is still in tact anyway? Or is it just a matter of however much the plot wants him to have? He is certainly more talkative than ghouls. From what I can tell in the fluff, he has free will within certain limits like most upper-tier Scourge. He cannot disobey the Lich King, and the good parts of his personality and soul have been purged. But beyond that, he's more or less free to do as he wishes as long as he follows orders. The Scourge generally have a lot of personality once you get past the reanimated hordes of lesser undead. Liches, death knights, high ranking necromancers, powerful frost wyrms, crypt lords (we'll meet them in the expansion), certain experimental abomination variants, and the like all retain their personalities and own motives just bent to evil and slaved to the directives of the Lich King. The Lich King likes his officers to have initiative and the ability to think for themselves in battle up to a certain point.
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Mar 27, 2018 02:44
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Cythereal posted:From what I can tell in the fluff, he has free will within certain limits like most upper-tier Scourge. He cannot disobey the Lich King, and the good parts of his personality and soul have been purged. But beyond that, he's more or less free to do as he wishes as long as he follows orders. Fair enough. In spoilers, does the amount of free will he has change MAJOR RED FLAG CAMPAIGN SPOILERSAfter he merges with the lich king or whatever the gently caress happens in the end of TFT?
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Mar 27, 2018 02:48
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lobster22221 posted:Fair enough. In spoilers, does the amount of free will he has change MAJOR RED FLAG CAMPAIGN SPOILERSAfter he merges with the lich king or whatever the gently caress happens in the end of TFT? It's never been clear, and WoW's gone back and forth on the subject repeatedly as well as on what Arthas' actual motives at this point and at the end of TFT are. That all basically depends on whatever the current plot requires.
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Mar 27, 2018 03:10
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Cythereal posted:It's never been clear, and WoW's gone back and forth on the subject repeatedly as well as on what Arthas' actual motives at this point and at the end of TFT are. That all basically depends on whatever the current plot requires. Ah, not too surprising I guess. It seems like it would be a difficult thing to write about even if it was the entire focus of a story.
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Mar 27, 2018 03:20
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HowlingGod posted:Chronicle Vol. 3 reveals that Mal'ganis' death was to remove one of the Lich King's jailer. His death was immediately questioned by the other dreadlords but the Lich King bluffed them by saying his mental control over Arthas was not absolute yet, that was Arthas acting on his own volition. I do love the mental image of the Lich King fast talking his way out via "I told him not to taunt the crazy guy we couldn't fully control yet, but did he listen? Noooooooooo" to the Dreadlords 
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Mar 27, 2018 04:38
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my dad posted:I do love the mental image of the Lich King fast talking his way out via "I told him not to taunt the crazy guy we couldn't fully control yet, but did he listen? Noooooooooo" to the Dreadlords Especially considering he is a dude inside an icecube
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Mar 27, 2018 04:45
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lobster22221 posted:Fair enough. In spoilers, does the amount of free will he has change MAJOR RED FLAG CAMPAIGN SPOILERSAfter he merges with the lich king or whatever the gently caress happens in the end of TFT? I speculate the moment they became "one", any mental domination Ner'zhul had was negated as they were now equally in control, up until Arthas "killed" Ner'zhul's soul.
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Mar 27, 2018 05:39
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HowlingGod posted:I speculate the moment they became "one", any mental domination Ner'zhul had was negated as they were now equally in control, up until Arthas "killed" Ner'zhul's soul. Was that a wow thing? That sounds like a WoW thing.
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Mar 27, 2018 05:44
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So... moving away from the declassified CIA documents, how much information about the Lich King is spoiler territory, anyway? Because while I'm not an expert on Warcraft lore, I've absorbed bits and pieces from this campaign and Frozen Throne, and that stuff that was written in the manual, so not all of this is new to me. I guess what I want to know is, does the player know the identity of the Lich King at this point? Is it directly relevant to the story of the first campaign? I think it's relevant to Frozen Throne, but maybe not here?
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Mar 27, 2018 05:54
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painedforever posted:So... moving away from the declassified CIA documents, how much information about the Lich King is spoiler territory, anyway? Because while I'm not an expert on Warcraft lore, I've absorbed bits and pieces from this campaign and Frozen Throne, and that stuff that was written in the manual, so not all of this is new to me. The Warcraft 3 manual spells it out pretty well and players of the previous games could make the connection by now. Even without the manual the undead mention Ner’zhul. The dreadlords will make it more explicit very soon as well. It was not a huge secret or plot twist.
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Mar 27, 2018 06:00
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lobster22221 posted:Was that a wow thing? That sounds like a WoW thing. It was from a novelization.
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Mar 27, 2018 06:36
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Xenocides posted:The Warcraft 3 manual spells it out pretty well and players of the previous games could make the connection by now. Even without the manual the undead mention Ner’zhul. The dreadlords will make it more explicit very soon as well. It was not a huge secret or plot twist. Oh thank goodness! I had to look up Ner'zhul back in the day, because I never got around to finishing the first two Warcraft games. And after I did, I was left with a feeling of, "Gosh, this is confusing!" This was, by the way, before WoW came out, but after Frozen Throne. NINJA EDIT: I was going to write a bunch more stuff, but then I figured I'd say it (much) later. There's no rush.
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Mar 27, 2018 07:21
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W.T. Fits posted:It was from a novelization. Specifically, the aptly-titled Arthas, which largely focuses on filling in the gaps in his backstory and glosses over much of what happens in this game, though it obviously still spoils a poo poo-ton.
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Mar 27, 2018 07:40
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Man, that Warcraft 3 manual might be one of the best of all time. Every faction had a couple thousand words about what they'd been up to since Warcraft II (and the night elf section essentially explained how the entire world came to be) and then every single unit (including creeps!) got a paragraph or two. I bought the game several months before my dad had a computer that could run it, so I spent a lot of time reading through that thing before I even played the game.
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Mar 27, 2018 14:42
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Man, I miss cool manuals. I used to love opening a game case we'll before I started playing the game and just reading theanual.and smelling that new game smell (which is kinda like the smell of opening a TCG's booster pack?)
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Mar 27, 2018 16:21
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painedforever posted:Oh thank goodness! Yeah, I think the idea of making the Lich King Ner’zhul was to tie the big bad Lich King to the problem children of both the humans and the orcs. Makes it more of a group problem
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Mar 27, 2018 17:03
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ninjahedgehog posted:Man, that Warcraft 3 manual might be one of the best of all time. Every faction had a couple thousand words about what they'd been up to since Warcraft II (and the night elf section essentially explained how the entire world came to be) and then every single unit (including creeps!) got a paragraph or two. I bought the game several months before my dad had a computer that could run it, so I spent a lot of time reading through that thing before I even played the game. Hah, same here. I got the special edition box with soundtrack, big art book, separate dvd of the cutscenes, etc. and it was months before I had a PC capable of running it. The worst part was I spoiled myself on all the game's cutscenes, because they were covered in detail in the artbook.
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Mar 27, 2018 17:52
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Alright so this is more or less me being frustrated at these forums, but I have the next update ready to post. It's been ready for 2 and a half hours. But every time I try post it, Cloudflare shits itself. So I'm posting this in the insane hope that something works.
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Mar 28, 2018 17:56
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DoubleNegative posted:Alright so this is more or less me being frustrated at these forums, but I have the next update ready to post. It's been ready for 2 and a half hours. But every time I try post it, Cloudflare shits itself. Nope. Cannot see this post. Sorry.
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Mar 28, 2018 18:22
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ninjahedgehog posted:Man, that Warcraft 3 manual might be one of the best of all time. Every faction had a couple thousand words about what they'd been up to since Warcraft II (and the night elf section essentially explained how the entire world came to be) and then every single unit (including creeps!) got a paragraph or two. I bought the game several months before my dad had a computer that could run it, so I spent a lot of time reading through that thing before I even played the game. Have you seen the Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri manual?
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Mar 28, 2018 18:39
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I was always partial to the Baldur's Gate 2 manual. A few hundred pages of lore, spell lists, and tables, with Volo and Elminster arguing about minutiae in the margins throughout. Or the Homeworld manual, the first 40 or so pages of which is a historical and cultural overview of Kharak and the clans inhabiting it before they built the mothership. Manuals used to be awesome.
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Mar 28, 2018 18:52
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Wicked Them Beats posted:I was always partial to the Baldur's Gate 2 manual. A few hundred pages of lore, spell lists, and tables, with Volo and Elminster arguing about minutiae in the margins throughout. I loved the Gateway to the Savage Frontier manual, not only it had the journal entries (to save disk space), it had descriptive details of every monster. And let's not forget the 'feelies', as Baldur's Gate 1 had maps.
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Mar 28, 2018 19:01
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The Homeworld manual was amazing, probably the best manual ever. Both Warcraft 2 and Warcraft 3 had very good manuals, as did Starcraft. The Lords of Magic manual was huge, and also included a ton of nifty details and backstory. Same with Age of Wonders. I still have all these manuals at home  But a good civilopedia can be an acceptable replacement, even though there's something viscerally pleasing about a physical manual.
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Mar 28, 2018 19:03
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Wicked Them Beats posted:Or the Homeworld manual, the first 40 or so pages of which is a historical and cultural overview of Kharak and the clans inhabiting it before they built the mothership. +1 to this, and Cataclysm was more of the same... though Cataclysm did spoil the bad guy from that particular game, considering that they had to explain their units for multiplayer. But it was the world-building, honestly, that was what was important. There was context as to why you were out there, what were you doing. There was an entire Universe from before you stepped into the shoes of the commanding officer.
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Mar 28, 2018 19:04
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I used to read through the Warcraft II and III manuals whenever I was bored and had already read everything else in the house. My favorite parts of the Warcraft II manuals (both Tides of Darkness and Beyond the Dark Portal) were the ink artwork.
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Mar 28, 2018 20:20
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Yo 2xNegative, it seems the forums are working again
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Mar 28, 2018 20:27
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So I'm pretty sure Cloudflare is deliberately playing like it's broken when I try to post the update. I can make posts like this and encounter no problems, but I'm apparently triggering some sort of security thing by posting a 25,000 character update. So because I'm tired of wrestling with this, here's a workaround. ^----- Click that for the update.
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Mar 28, 2018 21:27
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I like your explanation of how the Demons work character-wise and agree with you about Sargeras not needing the development he got. Especially for a character who is largely posthumous in the games thus far.quote:The elves will never attack because they'll never get rid of the trees in our way. Stupid tree-hugging Elves...  You aren't the only one who had to remind their units, Arthas in particular, to focus on damaging Sylvanas during this level. Concentrate on the threat, people! I don't care how comely she is...
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Mar 28, 2018 21:43
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Sylvanas is annoying. Shame she is just a throwaway character and will never get her comeuppance.
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Mar 28, 2018 21:45
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I did like how Blizzard remembered Mephistroth existed for the current WoW expansion. They even made him blue just like Warcraft 3.
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Mar 28, 2018 22:21
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I like how the temporary nature of skeletons is kind of driving the undead ever on toward conquest. Because what, are you going to let those hit points poof away all on their own?
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Mar 29, 2018 04:05
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I mentioned it a while back, but meat wagons are 100% designed to be used alongside necromancers. You don't need too many of them.If you manually cast raise dead, it can utilize corpses inside the wagons. If you prefill them inside graveyards, you have an army for free. Then you just refill with the elves you slaughter. Using meat wagons is also the way to make animate dead usable for similar reasons. And then when the corpses are about to expire, use deathpact to restore Arthas's health.
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Mar 29, 2018 04:27
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Finally, we getz ta stomp some elves! So, this is going to be a bit annoying, because the elves in this game aren't a complete faction, and their units might show up in Frozen Throne, and might be part of the fourth faction in this game. Anyway, I'm going to put up the Undead Necromancer here, and I'll do Sylvanas in another post. DoubleNegative, let me know (either here, or in PM) if you'd like me to add the following guys (their lines don't have any spoilers for the fourth faction):
The Elvish Swordsmen use the Priest lines, so I'll just copy and paste those. ****** Line time! Ready lines are used by units when they're produced. What lines are used when they're initially selected. Yes lines are used when they're given a move order. Attack lines are used when they're given an attack order. Warcry is used randomly for Attack when attacking hero characters. (Thanks to Drakenel for the correction) Pissed is what you get when you keep clicking a unit and it exhausts the What lines. Special is for builder units, and for certain special units, e.g. Uther, who is an AI-controlled character. Necromancer: Ready
What
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Mar 29, 2018 11:14
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I think it's pretty telling that we're 3 missions into the undead campaign and no one has mentioned their music yet. it's because it's bad
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Mar 29, 2018 20:27
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It's not bad, it's just kind of forgettable.
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Mar 29, 2018 22:02
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SirSamVimes posted:It's not bad, it's just kind of forgettable. A lot of the music in the game is just kind of ambient and there. Not just the undead.
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Mar 29, 2018 22:07
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lobster22221 posted:A lot of the music in the game is just kind of ambient and there. Not just the undead. Yeah WC3 has the kind of music that I can't recall off the top of my head but once I hear a bit I remember the rest. Except the TFT main menu music and the battle.net music, those two are etched into my brain from too many times loading up the game for customs. It's solid ambient music but compared to WC2's fantastic soundtrack, it was a bit of a letdown to me.
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Mar 29, 2018 22:36
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SirSamVimes posted:Yeah WC3 has the kind of music that I can't recall off the top of my head but once I hear a bit I remember the rest. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jQ36ixLeq8 Man cheats were great. Also, for the record. Currently the LIch King looks like this 
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Mar 30, 2018 03:26
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Waving his hands in the air like he just don't care. CARE DAMMIT!
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Mar 30, 2018 03:54
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Calax posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jQ36ixLeq8 Man cheats were great. IIRC that song was a spoof of Command & Conquer's Mechanical Man, given that both series(es) were the hottest poo poo that the RTS scene had at the time.
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Mar 30, 2018 06:45
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