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pile of brown posted:Minimum wage in Texas is $7, not 11. 7x3 is close enough to 20, even if you assume a chef has the same above-pay benefits as every dishwasher, which I am certain is not the case. Tezcatlipoca posted:Are living wages not good enough for you? Does that not count? Do you hate poor people that much?
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Mar 30, 2018 20:48
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Where did cdc (in Texas) post the specifics of his claim that paying people a living wage (in Texas) would cost his company $10,000 a day?
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Mar 30, 2018 20:56
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Tezcatlipoca posted:No way higher wages would affect this. Higher wages in collusion with food cost, operational cost? Yes. A point in one column must coincide with a point in another column. That’s not my point, though. My point is that using a weighted sociological term like bourgeoisie implies that restaurants control the means of production and, therefore, the availability of labor, income, and entrepreneurial modality. This is patently false. The economic power of a restaurant is wielded by what they buy and where they buy it. My community influence has more to do with where I buy my fish and less to do with how much I pay my fish cook. And while both are important - very important - it is in this distinction between the power of production vs. the power of consumerism that makes your use of the term, “bouggie” seem infantile and uninformed.
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Mar 30, 2018 21:01
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You can act bougie without being part of a rigid stratified social system with a bourgeoisie class.
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Mar 30, 2018 21:02
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He didn't. It was dishwashers to 15$ that would cost 10k. Is your memory so poor you can't recall the answer to a question you asked or just your terrible napkin math? oh woopse dish and cook. Submarine Sandpaper fucked around with this message at 21:05 on Mar 30, 2018 |
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Mar 30, 2018 21:03
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Submarine Sandpaper posted:He didn't. It was dishwashers to 15$ that would cost 10k. Is your memory so poor you can't recall the answer to a question you asked or just your terrible napkin math? In Texas, where he is, minimum wage is $7. To increase to $15 is a difference of $8. Someone else sourced living wage in the area at 14 and change. For employees working 8 hours a day, you would need more than 160 dishwashers every day to cost that. I asked and was not answered what they make now and how many of them there are. So what the gently caress are you talking about? pile of brown fucked around with this message at 21:09 on Mar 30, 2018 |
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Mar 30, 2018 21:06
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pile of brown posted:You can act bougie without being part of a rigid stratified social system with a bourgeoisie class. if you own a pet I expect you to curb stomp it tonight. pile of brown posted:In Texas, where he is, minimum wage is $7. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Mar 30, 2018 21:07
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infiniteguest posted:I’m not arguing about anything on this issue, I was discussing work culture not rate of pay.
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Mar 30, 2018 21:10
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i like nice words
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Submarine Sandpaper posted:if you own a pet I expect you to curb stomp it tonight. For someone who chimed in with insults and inaccurate information you've really got a great handle on this conversation, as well as my motivations for asking for clarification of details that make no sense. If he already pays more than minimum wage it would cost LESS to increase pay to 15. I don't even know what your post about stomping pets is even supposed to be about? Are you just making sure everyone knows you're a lovely person or what? pile of brown fucked around with this message at 21:13 on Mar 30, 2018 |
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Mar 30, 2018 21:11
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[quote="“Anne Whateley”" post="“482667501”"] How far out in Queens or Brooklyn do you have to go to get a 1br for $760? I live in Queens, I’m not seeing anything remotely like that. Is that what the people you work with actually do? Or do they do the normal thing of having 3+ roommates and living within 2 hours of work? [/quote] I pay 722 for a shared space in greenpoint (two bedroom apartment for two people) and you can live in east New York or way out past flushing for relatively inexpensive. It takes some shopping, though.
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Mar 30, 2018 21:15
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Most of my staff lives with their families (kids, spouses, etc) and a couple commute from jersey. We’re not far from the bqe though and it’s easy access through Staten Island if you can manage the bridge toll. I think it’s a mix of people in Brooklyn or the Bronx; Queens has some nice real estate but the commute to Brooklyn Heights is a tough one.
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Mar 30, 2018 21:17
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pile of brown posted:For someone who chimed in with insults and inaccurate information you've really got a great handle on this conversation, as well as my motivations for asking for clarification of details that make no sense. Having a pet is some bourgeois poo poo, hth.
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Mar 30, 2018 21:27
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[quote="“pile of brown”" post="“482667243”"] You can act bougie without being part of a rigid stratified social system with a bourgeoisie class. [/quote] [quote="“pile of brown”" post="“482667243”"] You can act bougie without being part of a rigid stratified social system with a bourgeoisie class. [/quote] Please define bougie. I’m not being sarcastic, I do not understand it in this context.
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Mar 30, 2018 22:03
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Submarine Sandpaper posted:you're the only one making up numbers for your "it's just 50c a plate bullshit" Elizabethan Error fucked around with this message at 22:39 on Mar 30, 2018 |
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Mar 30, 2018 22:19
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infiniteguest posted:Please define bougie. I’m not being sarcastic, I do not understand it in this context. Duh, if you ever took in a stray cat during a hurricane and it decided to live with you, you're bougie. Jeez, this has already been explained, pet = bougie, please keep up
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Mar 30, 2018 22:36
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JacquelineDempsey posted:Duh, if you ever took in a stray cat during a hurricane and it decided to live with you, you're bougie. Jeez, this has already been explained, pet = bougie, please keep up By definition
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Mar 30, 2018 22:43
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I'll be honest: I don't recall where in Capital they talked about the ills of pet ownership
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Mar 30, 2018 22:47
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Kill all your pets - Karl marx, probably
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Mar 30, 2018 22:48
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infiniteguest posted:Higher wages in collusion with food cost, operational cost? Yes. A point in one column must coincide with a point in another column. You have a fish cook? Like one person that only cooks fish?
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Mar 30, 2018 22:48
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Submarine Sandpaper posted:if you own a pet I expect you to curb stomp it tonight. Y'all see this right here? Don't do this. It's hosed up and doesn't add anything to the discussion.
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Mar 30, 2018 23:02
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Field Mousepad posted:You have a fish cook? Like one person that only cooks fish? Sort of, yes. I can break down the brigade kitchen system later, if you are interested.
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Mar 30, 2018 23:07
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Field Mousepad posted:You have a fish cook? Like one person that only cooks fish? no he's got a cook who is literally a fish
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Mar 30, 2018 23:15
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Liquid Communism posted:Y'all see this right here? Don't do this. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Mar 30, 2018 23:15
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Elizabethan Error posted:so you're saying that encouraging sociopathy isn't probatable. good to know. It takes a few minutes to be approved sometimes. Chill.
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Mar 30, 2018 23:40
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pile of brown posted:In Texas, where he is, minimum wage is $7. 100 cooks making $10-15, 50-75 dishies making $9-11. Then CdPs and stewarding supervisors start at 17.50, and management higher than that starts at 50k salary with overtime pay. We pay well for the area. Could we pay more? Eventually. But until the hotel stays higher than 30-40% occupancy most of the year, and we have more banquet contracts locked down, it just isn't going to happen.
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Mar 30, 2018 23:47
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infiniteguest posted:Sort of, yes. I can break down the brigade kitchen system later, if you are interested. I honestly am. Having mostly worked in late night pizza and fast-casual hellholes, I'm legitimately curious about the setups and layouts of far classier, distinguished hellholes.
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Mar 31, 2018 00:13
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pseudosavior posted:I honestly am. Nice! I’ll write up a detailed breakdown of my staff later, along with a more traditional brigade layout.
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Mar 31, 2018 00:19
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I think some people are missing the point of calling for actual system wide labour reform, and needing that before they can just "pay people more". Restaurants, and businesses in general, do not exist in a vacuum. You can't just raise prices and pay people more and expect that there will be no other effects of that change. When your prices go up and your competitor's doesn't, people notice. Sales are impacted. Now, if there is governmental mandated raises to minimum wage, guess what? Everyone else (including your competition!) HAS to do it, and the market adjusts accordingly! Until that happens though, as much as it's morally justifiable to immediately bump everyone to $18/hour for a starting position, if you're the only one doing it then those $18/hour jobs probably aren't going to be around for very long.
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Mar 31, 2018 00:21
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infiniteguest posted:Nice! I’ll write up a detailed breakdown of my staff later, along with a more traditional brigade layout. I actually find this fascinating and am looking forward to it.
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Mar 31, 2018 00:22
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pseudosavior posted:I honestly am. The Fish Cook is the guy on Hell's Kitchen getting yelled at for loving up the scallops for the 6th time that service.
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Mar 31, 2018 00:22
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But scallops are so easy to cook. I don't actually know of anyone using the classic brigade system outside of mega resorts and classic luxury hotels. Most have some overlap between duties. Like the fromagier and charcutier are usually the same guy, which in my case is me, cheese and charcuterie are my specialty, and I handle those things primarily, along with being one of the GM sous. We have a casserolier who cooks cafe, and he works directly under our exec banquet chef, because staff food is the most important food, especially when you're feeding 900 a day, and some eat twice. I'll do a little breakdown of how our banquet kitchen is organized later.
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Mar 31, 2018 00:32
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Scallops on Hell’s Kitchen is hot apps. Fish station cooks the lobster and Dover sole.
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Mar 31, 2018 00:53
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Submarine Sandpaper posted:you're the only one making up numbers for your "it's just 50c a plate bullshit" Im not the one who made either of those claims. You'd look a lot less stupid if you read poo poo before you replied to it. If you scrolled down you'd learn that it would cost far less than an additional 10k a day for cdc to pay all of his staff $15/hr, according to his figures. Infinite guest: Bougie is shorthand for bourgeoisie, the decadent class in classic writings about communism and socialism. Usually bougie characteristics are things like conspicuous and wasteful consumption and lording your social position or wealth over the lower classes.
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Mar 31, 2018 02:33
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For the sake of ease, I'll just say that 150 employees working 8 hour days average $10/hr. If they all get bumped to $15, that's a daily labor increase of $6k. I clearly failed at math, but even using your dumb 50 cents increase to menu items, we'd have to sell 12k individual items a day. Even if we were at 100% occupancy(we aren't) and had a solid capture ratio of .5(there are a ton of great restaurants nearby, .5 is a pipe dream this early after opening) for each meal period(who eats at their hotel 3x a day?) That would only be 2250 covers, assuming there are 1.5 people per room. They'd have to be buying 6 food items per meal period per day. My math was off, I admit that, but yours is waaaaaay off. Even if we factor in banquet sales, I'd have to do 9k covers a day. 9k covers a day would be insanity for the 30 person banquet team. We'd be working 16 hour days, 7 days a week.
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Mar 31, 2018 02:55
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pile of brown posted:Im not the one who made either of those claims. You'd look a lot less stupid if you read poo poo before you replied to it. Okay, but wait. That's not true. Bourgeoisie (a word I referenced multiple times so I think it's obvious I know that much) specifically refers to a business-class sector of a society (ie. not wage laborer and not Royalty) that wields power by controlling the means of production. Industrial lobbyists and the sort. Communist/socialist writings referring to the bourgeoisie are referring specifically to that, not just hoity-toity rich people. Bourgeoisie as a colloquialism is sometimes referred to as being a descriptor of the transitional, aspirational, upper-middle class sector that has gone from working-class to investment class and they like to be huge cunts about it. It's basically a more politically weighted term for "new money" - which is in itself a distinction mostly perpetrated by the uber-elite wealth sector that has chairs named after them at the Met or a dedication in the New Museum or whatever. The 1% Club. Your use of the term bougie seems really loose and, to be blunt, quite incorrect. Maybe this is a piece of vocabulary that you picked up by seeing it or hearing it in context and you've absorbed it through osmosis but the definition you are adhering to is wrong.
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Mar 31, 2018 03:46
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Another benefit of being willing to do dishes and being very good at it: Overheard the GM say that pretty much everyone's hours are gonna go down quite a bit starting this week. Checked the schedule. More hours next week than this week 
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Mar 31, 2018 04:08
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i reaaaaaallllllly dont want to get involved in this, but i also make poor decisions, and petit bourgeoisie is absolutely a category distinct from haute bourgeoisie and the role of the former in historical materialist analysis becomes A Real Collar-Tugger considering the finer points of the post-escalator timeline. the necessary counterpoint is if you're upset about dishwashers in urban areas making $9--entirely reasonable and humane--y'all are gonna flip poo poo when you find out what goes down higher up in the food chain in a CAFO or slaughterhouse or asparagus farm or canebrake. the system is everywhere, everyone is complicit, none of us looks good from 30,000ft. 
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Mar 31, 2018 04:17
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Willie Tomg posted:
quote:$9--entirely reasonable and humane- Hey buddy, please go gently caress yourself forever, ok? Seriously, gently caress you. Oh wow, people have it worse than people who have it bad, and that makes it OK? Oh ok gotcha cool.
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Mar 31, 2018 04:27
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***it is entirely reasonable and humane to demand a living wage which is always a drat sight higher than nine, and I have said as much repeatedly. Cool it dude, we're on the same team.
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Mar 31, 2018 04:38
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Brigade Kitchen System: So, this is how a normal brigade system works. The basic principle is this. In order to work the most effectively, labor in a kitchen needs to be divided and compartmentalized so that one person doesn't have to do everything, and that each person has a set of tasks that make sense to do simultaneously. So to illustrate this, we will compare the kitchen brigade to a more traditional modern American kitchen. In an American kitchen you have "stations" that are generally divided by resources. Grill station, fry station, saute station, pizza station (pizza generally referring to a station that utilizes a pizza oven) and a salad station. The workflow of the kitchen is defined by the equipment available to the cook in their space. The problem with that is you tend to balance the menu by station and therefore you are required to cook proteins or vegetables with methods that are not ideal for flavor or presentation but ideal for the balance of workload. Also You are giving people tasks that do not mesh well - cook a steak, warm garnish, plate entrée, manage tickets. The timing and mechanical methods for these tasks are not compatible and therefore if someone gets truly busy one or all of these elements will suffer. A brigade kitchen divides labor in a more sensible way. You have a Chef or Sous Chef at the pass, managing tickets and table. As tables are determined to be ready, tables are fired (fire 2nd course table 23, fire intermezzo on 18, etc.) to various parts of the kitchen usually known as lines or stations. A larger brigade will have the Chef De Cuisine (or Executive Sous on CDCs days off) on the pass and a Sous Chef on each line. This information is then filtered to individual stations. So say you've fired entrees on table 55 - a four top with a vegetarian pasta, two steaks, and a halibut. The Chef firing entrees on 55 has three sous chefs pulling their ticket to the fire area - meat station sous, fish station sous, pasta station sous. Let's say that, with a 12 minute fire time, pasta station has the longest time on the order. Pasta stations yells out, 12 minutes on 55. All the stations are coordinated to put entrees on the pass for inspection by the chef in 12 minutes. On a station you will have a sous chef to oversee quality and manage tickets - they will group fires, hold fires, and coordinate with other stations to manage the flow of food coming out of the kitchen. This not only makes the kitchen more efficient but also keeps your 12 course tasting menu from dragging to a four-hour snooze-fest where you are losing money on a table turn and pissing off your guests who want to go see Hamilton or whatever the gently caress. Aside from the sous chef you will have the protein cook and the entremetier. (entremetier traditionally means vegetable cook but that's like super old school) The protein cook cooks the protein and communicates timing to his entremat and sous chef to communicate to others. The protein cook's primary responsibility is to execute perfect, flawlessly consistent food with impeccable timing so that diners receive their food at the height of it's deliciousness. At JG, for example, if you slice a duck and plate it too early, after a minutes goes by under a heat lamp the duck is thrown away and the entire ticket is refired. The "protein" here could refer to fish, meat, or pasta. The entremat follows the lead for the protein cook and essentially cooks garnish. Pasta station they'll normally pan up condiment and wait for pasta to be cooked to be sauced. A meat cook might warm up creamed spinach or mount pommes puree with butter and touch up seasoning. A fish cook might emulsify a sauce with finishing cream or char a piece of broccoli to lean up against a grilled piece of salmon. A big brigade kitchen will actually have separate lines - each their own tiny kitchen unto itself - for each station. Meat roast will have it's own grill, range, even a broiler to execute all the dishes of that station. A fish station might have a steamer setup, a plancha, and it's own grill as well. A station is less defined by the parameters of the equipment and more by the needs of the workload the station is required to perform. The stations you find in a normal brigade: Grillardin (meat roast) poissonier (fish cook) hot apps (dunno the French word for this, the station that serves hot appetizers) garde mange (cold apps, essentially) patisserie (pastry) amuse (the snack station where interns go to die) Now also some kitchens will employ a cheese station, a saucier, and a bunch of other fancy French terms for cooking jobs but it largely depends on the restaurant.The Grill (the new four seasons restaurant) might need to distinguish between the grillardin who grills and the grillardin who uses the rotisserie or the wood fired broiler. Le Bernardin might need a fish saute, fish grill, and fish poach station because drat they sell hella seafood in that restaurant. Del Posto might have a pasta guy, pasta condiment guy, and hell a guy who literally only makes a risotto because why not? He can do some prep during service too. This delineation means that's as a cook you can focus entirely on the quality of your work and think less about what is going on with the entire dining room. It's the only effective method I've seen for putting out food at an extremely high level, or putting out food when you're doing 800 covers of fine dining a night. FOH also has a similar breakdown, where the dining room is divided into stations. Each station has a Captain - who coordinates and manages their squad consisting of runners, back waiters, front waiters, and sommeliers. The number of each role in any given station varies from restaurant to restaurant. This allows workers to focus on the quality of their work - bussing, running, selling food, selling wine - instead of juggling 6 incompatible tasks to mediocre effect. These old restaurant traditions are what have formed the structure of most modern restaurants today - it is unforttunate that many of them don't fully understand the systems so they generally implement them poorly. It also makes me sad to see the very nature of this conversation - people who are angry at the poor management of most restaurants (thus negatively affecting the personal and financial lives of their staff) but also railing against the financially tiered apprentice system that is the best way to correct it. The wonderful fairness of restaurants in this old tradition is that you literally get paid to train in your craft. If you want to be a chef, or a sommelier, or a General Manager, you don't need to afford school or loans or whatever. You just find a great restaurant to work for, put your head down, and work your way up. It's the only industry I know of where you can have literally nothing, not even a passing knowledge of the regional spoken language, and end up as a salaried manager with a beach house and a popular Instagram or whatever. It's not easy, or glamorous, and it doesn't pay a lot of money (like, ever, at any level) but it's loving fair and I love that. I hope this all makes sense.
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Mar 31, 2018 04:38
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