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theflyingexecutive posted:a truly awful episode of the daily had mikey barbs interviewing some chud farmer about his need for migrant labor and he was all “well they should maybe become some sort of citizen but only after they pick my almonds for several years at slave wages” economic anxiety
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Mar 30, 2018 05:09
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UK farmers voted overwhelmingly for brexit despite it being basically the same situation but with legal immigrants
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Mar 30, 2018 07:12
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Most farmers barely have any idea what they're doing, and certainly have zero grasp of the economics of it.
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Mar 30, 2018 10:59
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Burt Sexual posted:That’s a big couch for you
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Mar 30, 2018 17:34
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Inescapable Duck posted:Most farmers barely have any idea what they're doing, and certainly have zero grasp of the economics of it. most "farmers" are billionaires the agricultural workers at those farms haven't owned them for a long time and are mostly immigrants the myth of the single-family farm just toiling away from the cities is long long dead
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Mar 30, 2018 17:47
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single family farms haven't been sustainable in the west for decades
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Mar 30, 2018 18:44
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Dixie Cretin Seaman posted:it'd be funny to sit down with a bunch of strict constitutionalists and ask them to explain what's in the constitution and No browns in America, it's like in the first sentence.
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Mar 30, 2018 18:50
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TontoCorazon posted:No browns in America, it's like in the first sentence. i once had a constitutionalist tell me that the bill of rights only applied to citizens when i read him the language, which always refers to the rights of a "person", etc, he said that in the constitution, only citizens count as people
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Mar 30, 2018 20:48
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Dixie Cretin Seaman posted:i once had a constitutionalist tell me that the bill of rights only applied to citizens You must be pretty well-connected to be able to have such a debate with Judge Thomas
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Mar 30, 2018 20:55
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Dixie Cretin Seaman posted:i once had a constitutionalist tell me that the bill of rights only applied to citizens I've heard this from a number of people, it always sounded pretty fake.
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Mar 30, 2018 21:08
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literally the argument the bush administration tried to use to justify torture
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Mar 30, 2018 21:12
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H.P. Hovercraft posted:most "farmers" are billionaires (Multi)Millionaires. There aren't that many billionaires in the us, only a few hundred.
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Mar 30, 2018 21:20
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H.P. Hovercraft posted:literally the argument the bush administration tried to use to justify torture what an amazing coincidence-- that was the topic that led to our constitutional discussion thing is, even bush didn't try to do cruel+unusual on US soil. they argued that constitutional protections didn't hold in guantanamo and various prisons in friendly middle eastern dictatorships. but i asked constitution bro if anything was keeping the feds from black vanning a random foreign national on a vacation in america. he said only if we had a treaty with his country not to do that to each other's citizens the weirdest thing about claiming that people = citizen in the constitution is that the constitution also uses the word citizen in various places. it's not like the word hadn't been invented yet. they wrote "person", they meant "person" (i mean, they really meant white person, but that's still not the same as meaning citizen)
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Mar 30, 2018 22:49
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Dixie Cretin Seaman posted:what an amazing coincidence-- that was the topic that led to our constitutional discussion I feel that it's kinda missing the spirit of the constitution to go "oh, torture is unconstitutional...which is why it's fine so long as we don't do it within our borders."
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Mar 30, 2018 23:05
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Kit Walker posted:I feel that it's kinda missing the spirit of the constitution to go "oh, torture is unconstitutional...which is why it's fine so long as we don't do it within our borders." Rules lawyering war crimes for fun and profit.
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Mar 30, 2018 23:10
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Skyscraper posted:I've heard this from a number of people, it always sounded pretty fake. Yeah persons are persons, and even absent the plain meaning of "person," that's a stupid argument to make because reciprocity on respect of the rights of foreign nationals supercedes our constitution, per its express submission to treaties.
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Mar 30, 2018 23:19
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Kit Walker posted:I feel that it's kinda missing the spirit of the constitution to go "oh, torture is unconstitutional...which is why it's fine so long as we don't do it within our borders." asking a strict constitutionalist to honor the spirit of the constitution is equivalent to asking a biblical literalist to honor the historical and cultural context of the bible
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Mar 30, 2018 23:35
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Potato Salad posted:Yeah persons are persons, and even absent the plain meaning of "person," that's a stupid argument to make because reciprocity on respect of the rights of foreign nationals supercedes our constitution, per its express submission to treaties. for torture maybe, but treaties don't cover everything. for example, if 1st amendment religious freedom only applied to people from countries with reciprocal religious freedom, trump's "muslim ban" would have been harder to contest
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Mar 30, 2018 23:45
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I took the thread subject to momentarily be detention and torture.
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Mar 31, 2018 00:04
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In the interest of using an expedient legal vessel, the travel ban has been contested as an undue burden on the rights of state citizens (lol) where counterargument based on the federal national security justification for the ban has no standing per clear and plain religious animus, but the ban could be argued on the establishment clause alone if desired.
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Mar 31, 2018 00:08
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whydirt posted:Most farmers today are just rural capitalists, not single family salt of the earth They're both, because successful farmers end up owning more land which snowballs. They're also likely to own a significant chunk of the nearest town, so they're rentiers as well. A single-family farm that has existed for multiple generations is often essentially landed gentry.
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Mar 31, 2018 00:47
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Former DILF posted:idaho is an agricultural pearl on the necklace that is americas farming sector and it is ruled by two families: the simplots and the albertsons There are a bunch of sub-fiefdoms though, each town has three or four families who own it.
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Mar 31, 2018 00:56
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H.P. Hovercraft posted:most "farmers" are billionaires This is less true out West. California is one water baron dude growing everything, but places like Idaho and Washington state have family farms.
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Mar 31, 2018 01:52
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the farm districts are deep red because of votes from the rural middle class, who are not millionaires and whose livelihoods directly or indirectly depend on the local agricultural industry. those ppl are dumbfucks
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Mar 31, 2018 04:44
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Relevant Tangent posted:They're both, because successful farmers end up owning more land which snowballs. They're also likely to own a significant chunk of the nearest town, so they're rentiers as well. A single-family farm that has existed for multiple generations is often essentially landed gentry. Family farms exist today in the hundreds of thousands. They are just much larger and automated more and significantly larger in acres.
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Mar 31, 2018 05:14
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As someone who has spent a couple decades over the years in the plains states where most crop farming is corn and soybeans, some of these views about farming seem pretty laughable. Especially the “no family farms” idea. It’s all family farms, but they’re huge. From people I’ve known, <1000 acres of corn/beans is a pretty much a part-time job, both time-wise and often income-wise. Other areas/crops may be different. Oops guess I was a little slow.
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Mar 31, 2018 05:21
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I'm a city boy who doesn't know jackshit about farming, but all of the farmers that I know are family farmers. Around me they mostly raise livestock and hate the poo poo out of wolves.
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Mar 31, 2018 05:24
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I grew up on a small apple farm in an area packed with lots of other small fruit farms, so the idea of the family farm is definitely not totally dead. Fruit's probably a pretty niche case though, tending/harvesting/growing new orchards is way different in both technology/labor required and business strategy from growing staple crops. The fruits where I'm from basically have to be picked by manual labor so it's not like wheat or corn or whatever where one rear end in a top hat with a million dollar robot can cultivate 50 trillion square miles all on his own and get rich off it. Small farmers are still idiots though, almost everyone I know from back home is a Trump voter so lol Crazycryodude has issued a correction as of 05:55 on Mar 31, 2018 |
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Mar 31, 2018 05:44
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Technically Rosseau Farms here in Phoenix (yes, Phoenix, they grow water intensive crops like assholes) is a family farm. They also are multimillionaries and own the Salt River Project that controls both electric power generation and a good portion of water. They should be guillotined.
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Mar 31, 2018 05:53
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Do...do assholes require more water than other crops? I could see maybe manure...
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Mar 31, 2018 05:56
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rear end in a top hat carrots, rear end in a top hat lettuce, rear end in a top hat alfalfa. All of that requires WAY more water than the regular, already water-intensive varieties. Meanwhile the family farms on the rez grow ancestral drought-resistant crops that they sell to health nuts for $$$ because they are smart.
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Mar 31, 2018 06:04
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Eh, my uncle is a single family farmer who owns his own land, but uh, come to think of it he also owns a combine harvester or two and those are like a quarter million dollars a pop so I'm pretty sure he's rich. In assets at least.
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Mar 31, 2018 07:31
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Mantis42 posted:Eh, my uncle is a single family farmer who owns his own land, but uh, come to think of it he also owns a combine harvester or two and those are like a quarter million dollars a pop so I'm pretty sure he's rich. In assets at least. A while back John Deere hired away Rolls-Royce's big customer experience guy because they realized that every farmer who came in to buy a combine was dropping enough cash to buy any two luxury autos. IDK what changed afterwards, but that sounded like a solid hire to me.
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Mar 31, 2018 07:52
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Mantis42 posted:Eh, my uncle is a single family farmer who owns his own land, but uh, come to think of it he also owns a combine harvester or two and those are like a quarter million dollars a pop so I'm pretty sure he's rich. In assets at least. In my experience on marginal farmland in Australia, people own multiple combine harvesters because when one breaks, it's way, way cheaper to just buy a new one and use the old one for parts than to get the old one fixed. And don't think someone in modern America (or elsewhere) is rich in assets when they could be drowning in debt.
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Mar 31, 2018 08:16
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You can find a lot of interesting info on the matter from the US Dept of Agriculture ag census, I've been digging through it some for work and it's actually really neat stuff. https://www.agcensus.usda.gov/Publications/2012/
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Mar 31, 2018 10:12
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Mantis42 posted:Eh, my uncle is a single family farmer who owns his own land, but uh, come to think of it he also owns a combine harvester or two and those are like a quarter million dollars a pop so I'm pretty sure he's rich. In assets at least. That combine is almost certainly on credit
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Mar 31, 2018 10:43
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WithoutTheFezOn posted:As someone who has spent a couple decades over the years in the plains states where most crop farming is corn and soybeans, some of these views about farming seem pretty laughable. Especially the “no family farms” idea. It’s all family farms, but they’re huge. From people I’ve known, <1000 acres of corn/beans is a pretty much a part-time job, both time-wise and often income-wise. It’s this.
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Mar 31, 2018 18:53
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here’s a p good article about the billionaires that own california’s central valley, where all the fruits and vegetables come from
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Mar 31, 2018 23:40
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suggestion: instead of eating their produce, we just eat them personally?
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Apr 1, 2018 00:18
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H.P. Hovercraft posted:here’s a p good article about the billionaires that own california’s central valley, where all the fruits and vegetables come from Sight unseen I'm picturing endless clones of the incestuous rapist from Chinatown.
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Apr 1, 2018 00:24
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