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Rigged Death Trap posted:Obviously the kid in the blackshirt was known to the IDF as a Hamas Commando, and after a positive ID and authorization by higher command they were given the order to shoot to kill What is this bullshit? The Hamas Commando was obviously the tire.
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Mar 31, 2018 15:27
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Please do not delegitimise the fears of the idf. They aren't trained in sidestepping, just machinegunning.
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Mar 31, 2018 15:28
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Grondoth posted:How is anyone even remotely okay with this anymore *puts on pro-IDF goggles* Well, the IDF announced earlier that anyone who approached the border fence would be shot, so clearly it's the unarmed civilians' fault they're being shot up by a uniformed military force. No doubt it's a scheme by dastardly Hamas, the one and only source of anti-Israel sentiments in Gaza. Also, the trustworthy IDF, the most moral military in the world, said everyone they shot had weapons, so clearly it was a good shoot. Any allegations to the contrary are clearly just faked by the lying Palestinian media in attempts to make the IDF look bad. *removes goggles* See? It's pretty easy if you start from the premise that the IDF is always right and totally trustworthy, and that all Palestinians are notorious schemers and liars who constantly fake things just to make Israel look bad. In other words, you just have to be a big racist.
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Mar 31, 2018 15:47
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Zanzibar Ham posted:For someone claiming to see a lot of things you seem unable to see that the Times of Israel video shows them picking him up by his feet (and shoulders), not to his feet. One guy grabs his foot but drops it when he sees it's unnecessary. They do not pick him up. The Times of Israel video ends earlier than the Liam O'Hare video, where you can see him get up and walk away. Foot Guy does not move through the crowd with them. In the Liam O'Hare video there are only 3 people walking through the crowd and they're obviously not carrying a body. And of course, the guy is alive. Here's more frames from the video. Blackshirt before:  Blackshirt after: 
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Mar 31, 2018 15:49
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The tyres were aimed at the border fence as crude demolition tools. They weren’t primarily intended to hit soldiers, because who the gently caress tries to use burning tyres as anti-personnel weapons outside an Overwatch match? Obviously, this requires the death sentence, because destruction of property is the single gravest sin in a capitalist society.
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Mar 31, 2018 15:50
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Main Paineframe posted:*puts on pro-IDF goggles* If you attack another country's borders with lovely weapons like firebombs, rocks, slings, and burning tires, you're not "unarmed" and you're still attacking their borders.
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Mar 31, 2018 15:52
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Nameless_Steve posted:One guy grabs his foot but drops it when he sees it's unnecessary. They do not pick him up. The Times of Israel video ends earlier than the Liam O'Hare video, where you can see him get up and walk away. Foot Guy does not move through the crowd with them. There's multiple people with black shirts, and to me it looks like they are carrying him the whole way.
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Mar 31, 2018 15:52
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It should be that they were being shot at that matters. Him not getting shot, or getting shot, does not make the bullets that were fired at them before mysteriously loving disappear or justified.
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Mar 31, 2018 15:54
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The penalty for property damage shouldn't be death. That wasn't even the case with the deaths of slaves and fetuses in the Old Testament.
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Mar 31, 2018 16:00
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the videos show they posed a clear and present danger to the idf by running in the opposite direction armed with an assault tire the soldiers were entirely justified in shooting at their backs from several hundred metres away
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Mar 31, 2018 16:01
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In summary, the IDF did not shoot at unarmed civilians, who were not killed by the bullets anyway, and it was the Hamas' fault in the first place.
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Mar 31, 2018 16:03
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RandomPauI posted:The penalty for property damage shouldn't be death. That wasn't even the case with the deaths of slaves and fetuses in the Old Testament. Aw, c’mon, I know sarcasm doesn’t transfer well over the Internet, but did you really miss that one?
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Mar 31, 2018 16:11
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I must have misread the post, I could have sworn it was about protecting border walls and border troops.
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Mar 31, 2018 16:15
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Nameless_Steve posted:If you attack another country's borders with lovely weapons like firebombs, rocks, slings, and burning tires, you're not "unarmed" and you're still attacking their borders. I would love living in a world devoid of context. Sounds simple.
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Mar 31, 2018 16:43
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if only they'd killed themselves, instead of making the IDF do it, eh steve
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Mar 31, 2018 16:54
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Oh, it's because some people are human garbage that should be ashamed of themselves, that's how
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Mar 31, 2018 16:56
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Nameless_Steve posted:"sideways" Okay, walk me through the plan here. Hamas was deliberately scheming for several Palestinians to get shot dead, because... they just hate peace and Jews that much? I'm assuming the IDF are completely blameless as they were forced to gun down teenagers armed with rocks and tires. Zulily Zoetrope fucked around with this message at 17:05 on Mar 31, 2018 |
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Mar 31, 2018 17:02
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Zanzibar Ham posted:There's multiple people with black shirts, and to me it looks like they are carrying him the whole way. Hamas' list of casualties released today does not include him. Because he isn't dead. There are fair questions about shooting non-lethally at retreating civilian combatants. It's a huge gray area of international law. At best, this is Yosemite Sam-level "dance, varmint" dickery. At worst, it's stormtroopers firing in the general direction of C3PO and R2D2. Main Painframe, since uniforms seem to matter to you to justify death and are weirdly doubting that Hamas is responsible for the Hamas-planned half-demonstration half-attack, you'll be happy to know that at least 5 of the dead attackers were in fact uniformed Hamas militants.  This one I can't quite tell what's happening but he appears to be limping from a wound to the upper right leg. Presumably from a bullet, though you can't 1) hear a gunshot (maybe it's drowned out in the wind?), 2) see any dust kicked up, or 3) see any blood dripping on the ground or on anyone's hands and because 4) the fence is to the left, so how could he have gotten shot in the right leg? Unfortunately, this is just one of the unfortunate things you have to do with Palestinian propaganda videos. You have to parse through lovely quality cell phone video and tell whether or not they're lying, faking, or acting. Otherwise you end up grieving for people who aren't dead and outraged at people who didn't do what you're outraged about. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Mar 31, 2018 17:03
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Nameless_Steve posted:At best, this is Yosemite Sam-level "dance, varmint" dickery. You are a disgusting human being.
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Mar 31, 2018 17:05
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Nameless_Steve posted:I'm sorry that comment back there came off flippant and cruel; that wasn't the way I should have worded the point I wanted to make. In the future I will try to show more of my compassion for Palestinians and to be more vigilant against myself making assholey sounding comments, but no promises.
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Mar 31, 2018 17:09
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Nameless_Steve posted:"Blackshirt" is just a nickname I gave to Abdel Fattah Abdel Nabi, as he was IDed by Hamas. You're very insistent that you're right, I'll give you that.
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Mar 31, 2018 17:14
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Nameless_Steve posted:"Blackshirt" is just a nickname And a really cute nickname it is, but the actual blackshirts in this story are on the Israeli side.
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Mar 31, 2018 17:17
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The IDF Twitter account deleted a tweet! https://twitter.com/btselem/status/980042213718708224 And as for the "IDF is gonna have a hard time claiming he fell off his bike this time" tweet someone posted earlier, that referred to an incident back in December where an IDF soldier shot a 15-year-old in the face at close range - when the photos of his disfigurement went viral, IDF authorities claimed he'd simply fallen off his bike. Meanwhile, as a reminder that Palestinian policy isn't the only conflict Israel faces, there's been a minor hubbub over Passover this year. The cause? The Health Ministry's ban on bread products in Israeli hospitals during Passover (first imposed in 2015), as well as the Chief Rabbinate's request that hospital security guards search visitors to make sure they're not bringing in any Passover contraband. Legal challenges so far have made little progress, but several hospitals have announced their intention to flaunt the ban this year, although they risk retaliation from the Chief Rabbinate (such as having their kaahrut certifications revoked).
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Mar 31, 2018 17:22
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Nameless_Steve posted:
Jesus loving Christ.
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Mar 31, 2018 17:41
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You IDF defenders know you don't have to defend them every single time, right? You're not under a curse or anything. You could, even just this once, say "Yeah that was a bit messed up."
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Mar 31, 2018 17:46
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YodaTFK posted:Jesus loving Christ. Holy gently caress, I missed that. I'm no scholar of international law, but I'm pretty sure there is no such thing as "non-lethal shooting" when wielding lethal firearms, let alone with regards to unarmed, fleeing civilians. Do you have a single source to back that up?
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Mar 31, 2018 17:55
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Nameless_Steve posted:There are fair questions about shooting non-lethally at retreating civilian combatants. It's a huge gray area of international law. As others have said, Jesus Christ. Firing a rifle at someone isn't "dickery," you idiot. Unless the soldier firing won the gold medal at the world rifle championships, what they were doing would be judged as shooting someone in the back in any reasonable court in the world.
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Mar 31, 2018 18:42
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Gotta say it was real awesome hearing NPR yesterday. Their embedded journalist focusing on Gazan misery lied about HAMAS coming to power via elections with promises since fulfilled of restoring power and water utilities and instead claimed they took power by force while casually mentioning the current lack of energy without mentioning Israeli airstrikes and simultaneously insisting the border protests were HAMAS-led violent scourmishes meant to provoke violent counterattacks. gently caress everything. A Terrible Person fucked around with this message at 20:38 on Mar 31, 2018 |
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Mar 31, 2018 20:21
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A Terrible Person posted:Gotta say it was real awesome hearing NPR yesterday. Their embedded journalist focusing on Gazan misery lied about HAMAS coming to power via elections with promises since fulfilled of restoring power and water utilities and instead claimed they took power by force while casually mentioning the current lack of energy without mentioning Israeli airstrikes and simultaneously insisting the border protests were HAMAS-led violent scourmishes meant to provoke violent counterattacks. NPR has always been garbage about any issue remotely related to politics and/or economics (I guess the latter can just be considered a type of the former). They can be decent when they cover stuff that is unrelated to politics, like random music or cultural festivals.
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Mar 31, 2018 22:42
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The shittiest thing is that everyone is holding up these 5 Hamas militants as evidence that this was some sort of act of terrorism, when nobody is reporting that they were armed or presenting a threat to anyone. Just photos of the dudes in uniform from who knows when to be like yep, there you have it, Israel had no choice but to open fire.
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Mar 31, 2018 23:04
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Volkerball posted:The shittiest thing is that everyone is holding up these 5 Hamas militants as evidence that this was some sort of act of terrorism, when nobody is reporting that they were armed or presenting a threat to anyone. Just photos of the dudes in uniform from who knows when to be like yep, there you have it, Israel had no choice but to open fire.
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Apr 1, 2018 00:03
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FlamingLiberal posted:Remember when the Israelis stormed those ships bringing aid to Gaza, and tried to justify their super illegal actions after the fact by claiming the aid workers were armed? I would just point out that they 'armed' themselves with pipes and clubs to defend themselves against being boarded by special forces that had assault rifles. The only consequence Israel suffered for those actions were the Turks pulling their ambassador from the country for a year or so. Not the first time good old american dollars paid for humanitarian aid worker death
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Apr 1, 2018 00:49
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A Terrible Person posted:Gotta say it was real awesome hearing NPR yesterday. Their embedded journalist focusing on Gazan misery lied about HAMAS coming to power via elections with promises since fulfilled of restoring power and water utilities and instead claimed they took power by force while casually mentioning the current lack of energy without mentioning Israeli airstrikes and simultaneously insisting the border protests were HAMAS-led violent scourmishes meant to provoke violent counterattacks. Hamas won the 2006 parliamentary elections, which had nothing to do with them taking over Gaza from Fatah by force 18 months later. The protests were Hamas led, and they were clearly designed to provoke regardless of what actually occurred. By Hamas's admission, 5 of the 16 casualties are its members. Israel says 8 casualties were Hamas, with 2 others member of other militant groups. Volkerball posted:The shittiest thing is that everyone is holding up these 5 Hamas militants as evidence that this was some sort of act of terrorism, when nobody is reporting that they were armed or presenting a threat to anyone. Whether you believe them or not, the IDF is claiming that they indeed were doing that. And let's be clear about the meaning of the rally. The cause is they want the ability to forcibly invade a neighbor country and expel the current inhabitants, and that the lack of the ability to do so requires and necessitates permanent, endless war.
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Apr 1, 2018 01:35
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FlamingLiberal posted:Remember when the Israelis stormed those ships bringing aid to Gaza, and tried to justify their super illegal actions after the fact by claiming the aid workers were armed? I would just point out that they 'armed' themselves with pipes and clubs to defend themselves against being boarded by special forces that had assault rifles. The only consequence Israel suffered for those actions were the Turks pulling their ambassador from the country for a year or so. no bro, did you see all these kitchen knives they had stockpiled in their galleys? totally justified in shooting them from a hovering helicopter the absurdity of that episode is what made younger me realize that it wasn't an issue of two equally bad sides but a case of the israeli government blatantly abusing it's superior power
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Apr 1, 2018 01:37
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FlamingLiberal posted:Remember when the Israelis stormed those ships bringing aid to Gaza, and tried to justify their super illegal actions after the fact by claiming the aid workers were armed? I would just point out that they 'armed' themselves with pipes and clubs to defend themselves against being boarded by special forces that had assault rifles. The only consequence Israel suffered for those actions were the Turks pulling their ambassador from the country for a year or so. There were multiple flotillas that had previously done the exact same thing, and Israel shrugged at them. What we saw in the recent scandal about Jeremy Corbyn being a member of an anti-Zionist Facebook group was one of the flotilla participants was accused, by another member in the private group, of provoking the violence by grabbing a soldier's gun. From Israel's perspective, what benefit do they get from violence? It doesn't help their security situation, it only inflames public opinion. If you want to be cynical about it, the best thing for them would be to just be the current stalemate and smothering all hope of rebellion, not active confrontation.
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Apr 1, 2018 01:40
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Kim Jong Il posted:Hamas won the 2006 parliamentary elections, which had nothing to do with them taking over Gaza from Fatah by force 18 months later. Don't you ever dare quote me again you nazi bitch. There is no justification for firing on protesters.
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Apr 1, 2018 01:41
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Kim Jong Il posted:From Israel's perspective, what benefit do they get from violence? Killing poor people
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Apr 1, 2018 01:53
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A Terrible Person posted:Don't you ever dare quote me again you nazi bitch. There is no justification for firing on protesters. Nazi? What you said is incorrect, Hamas took power in Gaza by force. I did not "justify" anything - clearly the intent with the protests was for Hamas to have people killed to help their propaganda efforts. It's a sick tragedy.
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Apr 1, 2018 02:04
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Kim Jong Il posted:Hamas won the 2006 parliamentary elections, which had nothing to do with them taking over Gaza from Fatah by force 18 months later. Surely you mean 5 of the 16 dead. There were 1,500 casualties.
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Apr 1, 2018 02:08
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Kim Jong Il posted:Nazi? What you said is incorrect, Hamas took power in Gaza by force. I did not "justify" anything - clearly the intent with the protests was for Hamas to have people killed to help their propaganda efforts. It's a sick tragedy. gently caress you, nazi oval office. Hope that clears up any discrepancies. To actually add to the discussion, I find it strange (as in not surprising at all) that there is no mention of the number of wounded in any western media I've come across. A Terrible Person fucked around with this message at 02:32 on Apr 1, 2018 |
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Apr 1, 2018 02:29
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