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Angry Salami posted:Fortunately, permitting westward expansion caused no harm to anyone! Just look at how well the First Nations did in Canada, clearly the british were the humane choice
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Mar 30, 2018 14:07
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Obstacle2 posted:Got some sort of citation on this? Because the current scholarship on the American Revolution would, uhh, not agree. Adams, Franklin, Hamilton (about as important founders you can find) all came from fairly humble backgrounds and hardly fit the definition of "Aristocrat" in the way say, Jefferson or Washington did. And I pointed out weird contradictions like John Jay getting rid of slavery in New York (I said New Jersey by mistake). And how exactly did things like the Stamp Act, (a regressive sales tax) or closing down Boston Harbor not harm lower class Americans? And again with the Westward expansion thing, of course it was bad for the natives who owned the land, but are you telling me a vast swathe of poorer Americans didn't benefit from being able to steal said land regardless of the moral justifications (there were none)?
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Mar 31, 2018 08:16
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God drat this thread sucks, but this history chat is the best it's been in a while.
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Mar 31, 2018 08:32
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How do you know General Leia didnt own slaves?
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Mar 31, 2018 14:52
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Baron Porkface posted:How do you know General Leia didnt own slaves? She did, she’s one of the main star wars bad guys. The main hero is proletarian revolutionary “Silver Robot Man With Dials” who leads the Intergalactic Banking Clan
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Mar 31, 2018 19:11
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Wouldn't C3P0 count?
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Mar 31, 2018 19:22
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Maarak posted:Wouldn't C3P0 count? I really want to see the "The Empire are Nazis, just look at them" guys come back and argue that droid aren't slaves
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Mar 31, 2018 19:49
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Yeah man the empire are totally different from nazis
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Mar 31, 2018 23:09
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Shanty posted:I really want to see the "The Empire are Nazis, just look at them" guys come back and argue that droid aren't slaves Droids are slaves, empire are nazis (how did people get bamboolzed into this one are you guys all 531st legion cosplayers or something). But slavery isn’t that bad hth.
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Mar 31, 2018 23:28
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Every droid including R2 that we've seen gets upset if it has to do anything except for exactly what it was programmed to do
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Apr 1, 2018 03:44
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maybe programming is itself a form of slavery 
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Apr 1, 2018 05:06
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Kevin Palpatine posted:maybe programming is itself a form of slavery taking spare parts from the scrap heap of ideology
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Apr 1, 2018 05:25
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Honestly this history chat looks interesting, but I've got a question. Did they change Luke's "I've seen this kind of power once before" for the DVDs? I swear, and the internet seemingly backs me up, that the theatrical version was Luke posted:"I've seen this raw strength only once before. It didn't scare me enough then. It does now." But having just watched a Blu-ray copy, he says Luke, on DVD posted:"I've seen this raw strength only once before, in Ben Solo. It didn't scare me enough then. It does now." The DVD has a really obvious splice cut when he says "in Ben Solo" so you don't see Luke's talking. The rest of the line the camera is squarely on Luke.
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Apr 1, 2018 05:35
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I’ve watched it three times on amazon and he doesn’t say Ben Solo
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Apr 1, 2018 05:37
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PJOmega posted:Honestly this history chat looks interesting, but I've got a question. Maybe that was just the cut from the trailer. The “this isn’t going to go the way you think” line is spaced out a bit in the trailer compared to in the movie.
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Apr 1, 2018 05:52
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ben solo was in the middle of the sentence in the movie. it was cut in the trailer. if you really wanted to do your homework you could read the thread on and after the day the trailer dropped and see a bunch of goons speculating on who had all that raw power
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Apr 1, 2018 06:19
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It's almost like American movie trailers try to not completely spoil the movie.
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Apr 1, 2018 07:05
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Download a cam version of the movie to find out.
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Apr 1, 2018 13:40
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Couple of things which irked me, without going into too many details: Too many characters going kamikaze. Except for the rebel pilot who crashed into the SSD's bridge (plus his A-Wing was on fire and he was as good as dead) in ROTJ I cannot remember any other characters being so flirtatious with death in the original trilogy. Not to mention Rogue One, that was an outright recruitment video for ISIS. Poe gets ratted out for losing a couple of bombers (a 2 or 3 man crew on each from what I counted). But then the Rebel leaders wilfully sacrifice all their escort ships with crews in the hundreds during the run to the planet. The whole Space Vegas episode. Wallflower girl is friends with mistreated animals - Free Willy in space. Extra points for the grimy stableboy, who looks like a character straight out of a Charles Dickens novel. Too many plotholes: Hey there's Rae fighting Kylo. Oh a big explosion ! Cool, now she's on the Falcon shooting TIE fighters. Every serious moment was interrrupted by some cheap joke for a quick laugh. The whole Resistance movement is now maybe 20 people, few enough to fit everybody into the Falcon. Not even at their lowest point was the Rebellion that weak (or that dumb during an evacuation). It's probably not a bad movie, but it's also far from good, it's just a very mediocre rollercoaster ride, which leaves no time and room for character development or meaningful plot progression. To me this is no longer Star Wars, but Disney's Whacky Space Adventure ! Kids, get your Resistance puzzle ring with your next Happy Meal. Hammerstein fucked around with this message at 18:32 on Apr 1, 2018 |
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Apr 1, 2018 18:19
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Hammerstein posted:Poe gets ratted out for losing a couple of bombers (a 2 or 3 man crew on each from what I counted). But then the Rebel leaders wilfully sacrifice all their escort ships with crews in the hundreds during the run to the planet. As much as I don't want to excuse TLJ they actually show the crews of the not!Blockade Runner and not!Nebulon B get in shuttles and go to the Raddus before their ships run out of gas. As to why their captains couldn't have put a brick on the gas peddle and went with their crews I've got nothing.
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Apr 1, 2018 18:55
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Hammerstein posted:Poe gets ratted out for losing a couple of bombers (a 2 or 3 man crew on each from what I counted). But then the Rebel leaders wilfully sacrifice all their escort ships with crews in the hundreds during the run to the planet. Poe went on a bombing run that was unnecessary. The Rebel leader's ships literally are running out of gas and are left behind once they do with their crews evacuating. This is shown onscreen. Hammerstein posted:Too many plotholes: Hey there's Rae fighting Kylo. Oh a big explosion ! Cool, now she's on the Falcon shooting TIE fighters. Hux literally says she stole Snoke's private shuttle and escaped.
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Apr 1, 2018 19:00
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ImpAtom posted:Poe went on a bombing run that was unnecessary. The Rebel leader's ships literally are running out of gas and are left behind once they do with their crews evacuating. This is shown onscreen. I was already starting to zone out around that time. I'm gonna watch that part again. ImpAtom posted:Hux literally says she stole Snoke's private shuttle and escaped. I got that, but I found it dumb how a single sentence would explain the whole sequence of: get off the badly hit ship, start shuttle, find Chewie who already jumped away, switch ships and then get back in the nick of time, guns blazing, past a huge armada hanging around in orbit.
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Apr 1, 2018 19:47
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ImpAtom posted:Poe went on a bombing run that was unnecessary. The Rebel leader's ships literally are running out of gas and are left behind once they do with their crews evacuating. This is shown onscreen. His bombing run lost a handful of bombers to destroy a major military target far in excess of their value, and by the point Leia starts getting cold feet about it, it isn't like the bombers are going to be able to turn around. Also, if he hadn't destroyed that thing they'd all be dead, as their one advantage in the stupid chase scene was being able to keep out of effective range.
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Apr 1, 2018 19:58
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Hammerstein posted:
And no one ever poops in this movie. Preposterous
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Apr 1, 2018 20:05
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Caros posted:His bombing run lost a handful of bombers to destroy a major military target far in excess of their value, and by the point Leia starts getting cold feet about it, it isn't like the bombers are going to be able to turn around. Leia also physically assaults Poe before demoting him. I think you can tell she is used to being royalty.
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Apr 1, 2018 20:07
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Ammanas posted:And no one ever poops in this movie. Preposterous You mean this ship made the Kessel Poop in less than twelve parsecs? This perfectly ties in with the rest of the dumb plot of "Let's hide behind this armored gate, cause the Empire has never shown an apptitude for war machines with ridiculous fire power. Certainly our unknown friends will make it here in time." Hammerstein fucked around with this message at 20:35 on Apr 1, 2018 |
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Apr 1, 2018 20:33
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euphronius posted:I’ve watched it three times on amazon and he doesn’t say Ben Solo Could you do a solid and check again?
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Apr 2, 2018 04:40
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Caros posted:His bombing run lost a handful of bombers to destroy a major military target far in excess of their value, and by the point Leia starts getting cold feet about it, it isn't like the bombers are going to be able to turn around. That was the rebel’s only bomber squadron they say, whereas the first order still has a bunch of ships to kill them with.
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Apr 2, 2018 15:24
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PJOmega posted:Could you do a solid and check again? It seems I am wrong.
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Apr 2, 2018 15:29
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:That was the rebel’s only bomber squadron they say, whereas the first order still has a bunch of ships to kill them with. I don't really get how those bombers could possibly be deployed in any situation that wouldn't result in their gasoline soaked tissue paper asses lighting up. At least they were able to take out the big death ship that was about to kill everyone. 
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Apr 2, 2018 15:31
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kidkissinger posted:I don't really get how those bombers could possibly be deployed in any situation that wouldn't result in their gasoline soaked tissue paper asses lighting up. Yeah, they were basically the Brewster Buffaloes at the Battle of Midway. Maybe the Douglas Devastators?
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Apr 2, 2018 15:34
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SimonCat posted:Yeah, they were basically the Brewster Buffaloes at the Battle of Midway. Maybe the Douglas Devastators? It'd be the Devastators. Big, slow targets with a pathetically narrow window for releasing their ordnance. Counterpoint, the space bombers actually hit something. mllaneza fucked around with this message at 16:32 on Apr 2, 2018 |
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Apr 2, 2018 16:15
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kidkissinger posted:At least they were able to take out the big death ship that was about to kill everyone. The big death ship was only about to kill everyone because they were lagging behind on account of having to wait for the bombers to get back.
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Apr 2, 2018 16:47
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Schwarzwald posted:The big death ship was only about to kill everyone because they were lagging behind on account of having to wait for the bombers to get back. Again, in what situation would the bombers have not been super slow and vulnerable?
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Apr 2, 2018 17:02
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euphronius posted:It seems I am wrong. I appreciate your double checking.
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Apr 2, 2018 17:17
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kidkissinger posted:Again, in what situation would the bombers have not been super slow and vulnerable? Either the situation where they hadn't broken formation (with the capital ships) to attack a target a distance away, or the one where they hadn't launched to begin with and were still docked.
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Apr 2, 2018 18:09
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The problem with the bomber sequence in TLJ is that everyone who's been critical of the scene has probably played their fair share of X-Wing or TIE Fighter on PC thus making them an expert on how that entire situation should have panned out.
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Apr 2, 2018 18:13
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Criticizing the space tactics is so weird to me. Star wars space fleet engagements work like the space fleet veteran commanders say it does because reasons. It has never made sense.
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Apr 2, 2018 18:45
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I have no idea who is arguing with who, but: The space fleet veteran commander says that bombing the First Order ship is a bad idea that will expose their capital ships and get their bombers killed to no real benefit. Later we're shown the bombers getting killed, and despite the enemy ship being successfully taken down, the Rebellion ships are in just as bad a position as before. My takeaway is that space fleet veteran commander was correct, and that space hotshot made the wrong call in doing the thing.
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Apr 2, 2018 19:03
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Killing the big stupid wunderwaffe (both of them!) of the first order should do more to inspire resistance than whatever luke did at the end
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Apr 2, 2018 19:37
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