Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
Illuyankas
Oct 22, 2010

I do enjoy noted racist Nameless_Steve hyperfocusing on the video of an unarmed man being shot at and hit while running instead of the unarmed man being shot at and hit while praying

Also holy poo poo what world do you live in where people just shrug off trespassers being mown down when running away, no it being a private or a restricted governmental location doesn't make it ok you loving psycho

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Rigged Death Trap
Feb 13, 2012

BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP

Boy I just loooooove being in a world devoid of any loving context whatsoever.
This obviously, since I have no sense of comtext whatsoever, an absolutely unprovoked attack on the sovereign borders of a country by armed militants, and thus the IDF had every right to gun them down, and in fact they showed great poise and restraint in the shooting of those militants, seeing as they only killed a few.

I am a rational person

Orange DeviI
Nov 9, 2011

by Hand Knit
The Holocaust Was Legal Too

Ultramega
Jul 9, 2004

there were many fine people on both sides.
(of the electrified fence you will be shot for going anywhere near)

Ultramega
Jul 9, 2004

its really bad for y'alls health to continue feeding these assholes the attention they crave. it was kind of funny at first but when footage of people being murdered starts coming out of the OpT and people are eagerly defending the shooters you just gotta block and move on because there's no changing that poo poo. like all i wanna do is throw hands at these motherfuckers whenever they put a headass post out there but i can't so boom just block and keep it moving.

Groovelord Neato
Dec 6, 2014


Rigged Death Trap posted:

Boy I just loooooove being in a world devoid of any loving context whatsoever.

it's the right wing mindset. same thing with how people blame black people for their poverty in america somehow forgetting the hundreds of years that led up to it.

Regarde Aduck
Oct 19, 2012

c l o u d k i t t e n
Grimey Drawer

XMNN posted:

no, you're a sociopath because not only are you "well, actually"-ing shooting unarmed people in the back as they run away, you also make weird snide little jokes about shooting tires out of hands and Yosemite Sam

you are such a genuinely awful person and it's so strange to me that you can't see it

e: I mean, I assume you think you are a good, normal, kind and reasonable person because most people do, but I assure you, you arent

He probably thinks he's "trolling". Only there's a point where trolling just becomes actually being a piece of poo poo. Like it you ran up to a bounch of orphans, laughed at them for having no parents and then set one of them on fire. Or maybe blaming people that have just been shot in the back by a professional military for their own murder. Just a joke. Just a prank. U mad?

Nameless_Steve
Oct 18, 2010

"There are fair questions about shooting non-lethally at retreating civilian combatants."

Illuyankas posted:

I do enjoy noted racist Nameless_Steve hyperfocusing on the video of an unarmed man being shot at and hit while running instead of the unarmed man being shot at and hit while praying

I did already comment on this. Nobody engaged me to explain the apparent Magic Bullet scenario going on there.

Nameless_Steve posted:

This one I can't quite tell what's happening but he appears to be limping from a wound to the upper right leg. Presumably from a bullet, though you can't 1) hear a gunshot (maybe it's drowned out in the wind?), 2) see any dust kicked up, or 3) see any blood dripping on the ground or on anyone's hands and because 4) the fence is to the left, so how could he have gotten shot in the right leg?

Groovelord Neato
Dec 6, 2014


you can hear the gunshot.

Nameless_Steve
Oct 18, 2010

"There are fair questions about shooting non-lethally at retreating civilian combatants."

Regarde Aduck posted:

Or maybe blaming people that have just been shot in the back by a professional military for their own murder.

He's alive and well. I have proven this.

Flowers For Algeria
Dec 3, 2005

I humbly offer my services as forum inquisitor. There is absolutely no way I would abuse this power in any way.


There’s some 9/11 conspiracy theory-level video watching going on in this thread

Maera Sior
Jan 5, 2012

Nameless_Steve posted:

"Blackshirt" is just a nickname I gave to Abdel Fattah Abdel Nabi, as he was IDed by Hamas.
Hamas' list of casualties released today does not include him. Because he isn't dead.
Oh hey, look at this article.

Nameless_Steve
Oct 18, 2010

"There are fair questions about shooting non-lethally at retreating civilian combatants."

Flowers For Algeria posted:

There’s some 9/11 conspiracy theory-level video watching going on in this thread

First of all, you should have said JFK conspiracy theory-level video watching. I specifically mentioned Magic Bullet.

Second, it's not that deep. Clearly a bullet fired from the left direction simply cannot enter his right leg. It would have had to change directions mid-air to hit him.

Haven't you seen enough Soccer/Football to tell when someone is faking a leg injury?

Nameless_Steve
Oct 18, 2010

"There are fair questions about shooting non-lethally at retreating civilian combatants."

Okay, I stand corrected. Sorry everyone.

XMNN
Apr 26, 2008
I am incredibly stupid
i genuinely believe you are really sorry and not just saying that because the weird conspiracy theory you had to come up with to justify shooting someone in the back as they ran away and then spent a day defending with flippant comments about storm troopers just got conclusively disproved

...hmm wait no I don't, gently caress off forever

Tacky-Ass Rococco
Sep 7, 2010

by R. Guyovich

Nameless_Steve posted:

Okay, I stand corrected. Sorry everyone.

But, like, what if the soldier was just trying to be a dick, and missed? Surely that would make it justified?

Zulily Zoetrope
Jun 1, 2011

Muldoon

Nameless_Steve posted:

Okay, I stand corrected. Sorry everyone.

So is it his fault for failing to do the varmint dance, or his fault for provoking an ace IDF sniper with perfect trigger discipline to shoot him in the back of the head? Or is it his fault in some third way, like maybe he wore a HAMAS headband sometime last year?

XMNN
Apr 26, 2008
I am incredibly stupid

Nameless_Steve posted:

Okay, I stand corrected. Sorry everyone.

just to be clear, because you clearly have some trouble understanding human interaction and maybe this can be a learning experience for you, that is not in any way an adequate expression of contrition for this:

Nameless_Steve posted:

"Blackshirt" is just a nickname I gave to Abdel Fattah Abdel Nabi, as he was IDed by Hamas.
Hamas' list of casualties released today does not include him. Because he isn't dead.

There are fair questions about shooting non-lethally at retreating civilian combatants. It's a huge gray area of international law.
At best, this is Yosemite Sam-level "dance, varmint" dickery.
At worst, it's stormtroopers firing in the general direction of C3PO and R2D2.

Main Painframe, since uniforms seem to matter to you to justify death and are weirdly doubting that Hamas is responsible for the Hamas-planned half-demonstration half-attack, you'll be happy to know that at least 5 of the dead attackers were in fact uniformed Hamas militants.



This one I can't quite tell what's happening but he appears to be limping from a wound to the upper right leg. Presumably from a bullet, though you can't 1) hear a gunshot (maybe it's drowned out in the wind?), 2) see any dust kicked up, or 3) see any blood dripping on the ground or on anyone's hands and because 4) the fence is to the left, so how could he have gotten shot in the right leg?

Unfortunately, this is just one of the unfortunate things you have to do with Palestinian propaganda videos. You have to parse through lovely quality cell phone video and tell whether or not they're lying, faking, or acting. Otherwise you end up grieving for people who aren't dead and outraged at people who didn't do what you're outraged about.

Nameless_Steve posted:

One guy grabs his foot but drops it when he sees it's unnecessary. They do not pick him up. The Times of Israel video ends earlier than the Liam O'Hare video, where you can see him get up and walk away. Foot Guy does not move through the crowd with them.

In the Liam O'Hare video there are only 3 people walking through the crowd and they're obviously not carrying a body.

And of course, the guy is alive. Here's more frames from the video.

Blackshirt before:

Blackshirt after:


Nameless_Steve posted:

You absolutely can, it's just hard to see around the crowd. You have to have an eye for this kind of thing.

1. Watch the spot on the ground where he falls. The crowd moves (they are following him, moving with him) and then he's not there anymore. One guy is hanging back and walks over the spot where blackshirt had been laying a second before.
2. Blackshirt is led through the crowd and you can only catch fleeting glimpses of him between the other people. Here is one of the frames where this is true:

3. If he's dead and just lying there, it doesn't make sense for the crowd to move towards him and then away for no reason at all.
4. And apparently the tires were for lighting on fire and rolling at the soldiers. It's a lovely weapon but you shouldn't earn sympathy just because you deliberately take knives to gunfights.

Nameless_Steve posted:

International law concerning unlawful/unofficial combatants is a huge gray area, in general. This is just true. Sorry?
Soldiers: For instance, retreating soldiers can lawfully come under fire even within the protections and restrictions of the Geneva Conventions. The purpose of Retreat Under Fire is a lawful tactic to force the enemy to regroup farther than they would otherwise.
Civilians: Generally dealing with civilians is a different matter but usually left up to the countries. For instance, if this were private property or any restricted government facility, no one would bat an eyelash at firing at them firing at civilian (criminal) intruders until they were out of range.
Unlawful Combatants: But in the middle are unlawful combatants, who have barely any international law pertaining to them, never mind case law. I'm not a lawyer, either, but I am able to read and parse certain laws. If you can find anything pertaining to this specific situation, I stand ready to correct myself.

But please stop calling this guy a civilian. By definition, when you attack a foreign entity (say by raiding their border, even with lovely weapons), you forfeit civilian status and civilian protections and become an Unlawful Combatant.

And there is simply very little applicable law about unlawful combatants.


The target isn't that far away, especially not for IDF snipers (who are highly trained and aren't too far off from world gold medalists). Several of those shots appear to be deliberate misses intended to scare the guy as he retreated (see firing under retreat above). Warning shots. The last shot I'm guessing was just a soldier showing off to knock the tire out of his hand.

Since it doesn't look like they're even trying to kill these people, only give them a scare, yeah I'll treat it like it's harmless. The IDF had pretty good discipline on Friday and only seem to have killed people raiding the border. I know 10 of the people killed were Hamas militants engaged in combat, the other 4 I'll reserve judgment.

mm-hmm.

I can't prove a negative. There just isn't much international law pertaining to civilian/illegal/unofficial combatants.

The people apparently being shot at are not "unarmed civilians," no matter how many times you insist on calling them that. They sacrificed that status when they attacked the fence. When they meet up with the regular crowd, notice that no further shots are fired. Those people in the crowd had not attacked and did have civilian status. Hence, no shots were fired at them.

You may not agree with everything the IDF does but you do have to acknowledge that it is a very disciplined fighting force and there are certain lines that they rarely to never cross.


Sorry I'm showing insufficient sympathy for a death that didn't happen, I guess.

And for the 10+ militant deaths that were actually cut-and-dry legal and justified, I also spare no tears. That's war. War is terrible. People die. When you initiate combat, when you wage war, when you attack, you bear at least partial (if not total) responsibility for the casualties on your side. This was an attack on Israel's border, plain and simple, with the cover of a few thousand protestors so they could fool people unwilling to look closer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qgdxnFizHpE

Nameless_Steve posted:

I'm not crying. I would be annoyed if you hadn't given me a Pesach miracle: You have thoroughly proven your Anti-Zionism actually, truly is Antisemitism. Plot twist!

And I'm too fat and high to be associated with the IDF. I'd just look silly in one of those uniforms.


"paragraphs defending murdering protestors"
The people I've been talking about, in those two videos, are not dead. They're not dead. Even Hamas isn't claiming they're dead. They're not dead.

Nameless_Steve posted:

First of all, you should have said JFK conspiracy theory-level video watching. I specifically mentioned Magic Bullet.

Second, it's not that deep. Clearly a bullet fired from the left direction simply cannot enter his right leg. It would have had to change directions mid-air to hit him.

Haven't you seen enough Soccer/Football to tell when someone is faking a leg injury?

Nameless_Steve posted:

He's alive and well. I have proven this.

Nameless_Steve posted:

I did already comment on this. Nobody engaged me to explain the apparent Magic Bullet scenario going on there.

no one could possibly believe you were sincere

Tacky-Ass Rococco
Sep 7, 2010

by R. Guyovich
I wonder if Steve still thinks the IDF are a well-disciplined fighting force.

Nameless_Steve
Oct 18, 2010

"There are fair questions about shooting non-lethally at retreating civilian combatants."
Unequivocally: this was an unnecessarily brutal response by the IDF. I am sorry and I do feel foolish, dickish and humiliated. Go ahead, pile on.

But I do think it was a more justifiable mistake than you'll give me credit for. Since his name wasn't listed on the casualty list, and the potato-quality video doesn't show any blood or brains like you'd expect, and I really truly thought he wasn't dead. I wouldn't have said any of that if I'd known he was.

Flowers For Algeria
Dec 3, 2005

I humbly offer my services as forum inquisitor. There is absolutely no way I would abuse this power in any way.


Maybe this will be a lesson and next time there's a pixelated video of a war crime circulating you won't be so adamant and jump at the conclusion that is most ideologically satisfactory to you? That'd make your apology seem heartfelt.
(Not doubling down to justify your behavior like you are still doing in your latest post also would)

Tacky-Ass Rococco
Sep 7, 2010

by R. Guyovich

Nameless_Steve posted:

Unequivocally: this was an unnecessarily brutal response by the IDF. I am sorry and I do feel foolish, dickish and humiliated. Go ahead, pile on.

But I do think it was a more justifiable mistake than you'll give me credit for. Since his name wasn't listed on the casualty list, and the potato-quality video doesn't show any blood or brains like you'd expect, and I really truly thought he wasn't dead. I wouldn't have said any of that if I'd known he was.

The key thing you should remember is that this is just the most egregious of the stupid things you've said in just the last few pages. There's "whoever gave me this poorly-shopped Spider-man avatar is an antisemite" and "the sniper was firing warning shots at this fleeing civilian" (note: in what possible universe does this make sense?) and "Israeli snipers are so ultra-elite that it's OK for them to be shooting in the general direction of fleeing civilians without the intention to hit them" (proven false by the fact that those weren't warning shots, they were trying to shoot that guy and missing), all the while maintaining a smug attitude of being the adult in the room. You are not the adult. There are children substantially smarter than you.

emanresu tnuocca
Sep 2, 2011

by Athanatos
What's the significance of the manspider?

Argas
Jan 13, 2008
SRW Fanatic




What a piss poor sorry.

Sorry to the posters on the internet? Who gives a poo poo about us. Make a meaningful apology or shut up already.

fool of sound
Oct 10, 2012

emanresu tnuocca posted:

What's the significance of the manspider?

Hard hat Spider-Man is a meme ever since some crazy person bought like 100 posters that image as an avatar

Grondoth
Feb 18, 2011

Nameless_Steve posted:

Unequivocally: this was an unnecessarily brutal response by the IDF. I am sorry and I do feel foolish, dickish and humiliated. Go ahead, pile on.

But I do think it was a more justifiable mistake than you'll give me credit for. Since his name wasn't listed on the casualty list, and the potato-quality video doesn't show any blood or brains like you'd expect, and I really truly thought he wasn't dead. I wouldn't have said any of that if I'd known he was.

Think about how goddamn eager you were to defend someone getting shot in the back, and do a little more than go "this was an unnecessarily brutal" in your thinking. You were so willing to let a murder slide because you wanted to believe the IDF, what does that say about who you're defending?
This is a "are we the baddies" moment, my dude, and you need to have the introspection to notice.

Kim Jong Il
Aug 16, 2003

Panzeh posted:

So, if a picture can be found of an Israeli civilian in an IDF uniform at some point in the past, one can say that their death was justified, then?

I didn't say their death was justified - it's horrible - and it was a deliberate choice by Hamas.

Tacky-Ass Rococco
Sep 7, 2010

by R. Guyovich

Kim Jong Il posted:

I didn't say their death was justified - it's horrible - and it was a deliberate choice by Hamas.

So, if a picture can be found of an Israeli civilian in an IDF uniform at some point in the past, one can say that their death was unjustified, and horrible, and a deliberate choice by Israel?

XMNN
Apr 26, 2008
I am incredibly stupid
probably also a deliberate choice by the IDF snipers shooting people as they run away

Zanzibar Ham
Mar 17, 2009

You giving me the cold shoulder? How cruel.


Grimey Drawer
The protesters weren't actually running away. If you look closely you'll see that the videos are played backwards when in actuality the protesters were moon-walking towards the border.

Rigged Death Trap
Feb 13, 2012

BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP

Zanzibar Ham posted:

The protesters weren't actually running away. If you look closely you'll see that the videos are played backwards when in actuality the protesters were moon-walking towards the border.

What a discovery!
They've weaponized their bodies to shoot bullets!

Lustful Man Hugs
Jul 18, 2010

Rigged Death Trap posted:

What a discovery!
They've weaponized their bodies to shoot bullets!

Oh no - that farmer fired a high-explosive round at that tank.

hadji murad
Apr 18, 2006
Nameless Steve looks like one of the most bloodthirsty and racist posters I’ve seen in ten years of IP threads and that includes Kim Jong Il.

Orange DeviI
Nov 9, 2011

by Hand Knit
He's garbage, he just baits and posts about how he lusts for dead Palestinians, then when people complain he acts outraged and calls antisemitism.

Tacky-Ass Rococco
Sep 7, 2010

by R. Guyovich
Good odds he's never returning to this thread. If I'd been owned so hard by reality I'd have to abandon my account and create a new one to ever post again.

Whatever happened to MIGF, by the way? I've been out of the game for a while.

Kokoro Wish
Jul 23, 2007

Post? What post? Oh wow.
I had nothing to do with THAT.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GE2qWjY4-MM

Ytlaya
Nov 13, 2005

Nameless_Steve posted:

Thank you for engaging in actual discussion like an adult.

Consider the flip side: the view that the status quo itself is a state of perpetual Arab/Palestinian aggression and anything that Israel does should just be viewed as a response to that.
It certainly works much better in this case than your theory. Palestinians assaulting Israel's borders because it's the anniversary of something that happened 40 something years ago, and Israel's only defending its borders.

This bolded part is where the racism slips out, because there isn't really any explanation other than "this person just groups all Arabs (or people perceived as Arabs) together" for conflating the actions or opinions of other Arab states with Palestinians. Palestinian bear zero responsibility for the aggression of other states, and most of that aggression is from decades ago (so if you're going to use that as an excuse, Palestinians should also feel free to push for a return to pre-1967 borders).

Also, the idea of it being "Israel's borders" is absurd given, as mentioned, Israel is choosing to exercise control over the Palestinian areas. Israel is constantly choosing to influence Palestinians on a far, far deeper level that some Palestinian protesters throwing rocks at the border. Because the mere state of Palestinian existence, as enforced by Israel, is a crime, anything the Palestinians do should be viewed as more of a response than anything Israel does. Of course, it's possible for a response to Israeli aggression to still be immoral (like killing civilians), but even if you consider that Israel comes off looking far worse, given they've killed literal orders of magnitude more civilians than Palestinians have (and with an organized military, which is considerably worse than Palestinian individuals or small groups doing so, since it's basically an official action representative of the Israeli government/state when they do it).

(Also the fact that Israel is constantly literally stealing land from Palestinians, which is a hell of a lot worse than anything Palestinians are doing to Israeli borders.)

Nameless_Steve posted:

Okay, I stand corrected. Sorry everyone.

The thing that you should be doing here is questioning the thought processes that lead you to so strongly feel the need to interpret things in a way that allowed Israel/the IDF to avoid culpability.

Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 04:27 on Apr 2, 2018

Kim Jong Il
Aug 16, 2003

hadji murad posted:

Nameless Steve looks like one of the most bloodthirsty and racist posters I’ve seen in ten years of IP threads and that includes Kim Jong Il.

Good to see we're back to arguing in favor of the two state solution is bloodthirsty and racist.

Yeowch!!! My Balls!!!
May 31, 2006

Kim Jong Il posted:

Good to see we're back to arguing in favor of the two state solution is bloodthirsty and racist.

real shame hamas forced the IDF to shoot a kid in the back as he was running away from them, huh

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

emanresu tnuocca
Sep 2, 2011

by Athanatos
Sometimes people have a hard time coming to terms with the fact that they're on the wrong side of history, they're not always bad people even if they argue for horrible things. If you get one of them to see they erred, even on one tiny little thing from their perspective, it's probably better to encourage them to rethink about the rest of their pre-conceptions rather than to mock them mercilessly.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply