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MaxxBot posted:That would actually be an appealing product to me but they'd probably put iOS on it which would ruin it for me. I'd be really interested in such a product too. It would have an LTE modem in there as well, I'm sure.
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Apr 2, 2018 19:15
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Malcolm XML posted:Pcie 4 and 5 are for networking and storage appliances PCIe 4 has plenty of reason to come to consumer hardware. (PCIe 5 who knows though. AFAIK, that really is motivated by the devices you mention.) Besides the features other than bandwidth, USB 20 Gbps is coming. Wifi closer to 10 Gbps is coming. We're overdue for faster ethernet by default in consumer hardware. NVMe will eat all the bandwidth it's given. And everything but the graphics card gets put on a 4 lane bottleneck.
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Apr 2, 2018 19:19
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MaxxBot posted:That would actually be an appealing product to me but they'd probably put iOS on it which would ruin it for me. ios is hella good but a touch-based os has no place on a laptop. osx runs pretty well on hardware that's way slower than what they put in the ipads tho; would make a good cheap (for apple anyway) laptop for students and most people buying it would never know the difference. that being said i'm sure any cost savings are going to go straight to apple's margins, and gently caress knows how long it would take them to update the entire line with tim 'selling 4 year old products for full price until literally no one is buying them' cook in charge crazypenguin posted:PCIe 4 has plenty of reason to come to consumer hardware. (PCIe 5 who knows though. AFAIK, that really is motivated by the devices you mention.) i agree, but what business incentive exists for them to do this? you've said you're listing reasons aside from bandwidth, but then gone and listed the bandwidth advantages of several new technologies. when do the lions share of people using intel's consumer platform (office workers and people who can only afford laptops that somehow still ship with 1366x768 screens/5400rpm hard drives) ever use any more bandwidth than their downstream internet connection? when, except in very specific use cases, do they ever even use usb file transfer? why budget money to reserve lanes for nvme when most users are going to be using a 5400rpm hard drive to the exclusion of all else? (whether because they don't have enough money in the case of consumers, or because some loving middle manager doesn't know the value of decent IT infrastructure in the case of large businesses) Generic Monk fucked around with this message at 19:52 on Apr 2, 2018 |
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Apr 2, 2018 19:29
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crazypenguin posted:PCIe 4 has plenty of reason to come to consumer hardware. (PCIe 5 who knows though. AFAIK, that really is motivated by the devices you mention.) It’s going to be a problem until a larger PCIe Switch gets integrated on the CPU; there’s only one root complex. Bifurcation of the PEG port helps somewhat, but you’re right, everyone else is stuck on the DMI link back to the CPU. Maybe there are some teething pains going on with the SerDes for Gen 4? Not that it isn’t possible, but lowering cost / increasing yields / constructing it on the relevant process.
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Apr 2, 2018 19:36
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do board makers put x16 slots on the boards that go into your average office desktop? seems like they wouldn't tbf. probably the only reason they have it on the z series boards is because they'd just be screaming at amd (even shitey bulldozer-era amd) to eat their lunch otherwise
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Apr 2, 2018 19:50
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Pryor on Fire posted:Apple just announced they are moving away from Intel to their own chips for new macs in 2020. Hm, you must be mistaken, because I have it on good authority that happened in 2013. At the latest.
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Apr 2, 2018 19:55
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Generic Monk posted:do board makers put x16 slots on the boards that go into your average office desktop? no space for a full length slot in a laptop bud!
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Apr 2, 2018 20:17
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If I can get an i3-8100 and a new Z370 board for under $200, is that pretty much the best gaming platform you can get for that price? I've only got an R9 290X, so I'm guessing I will be GPU limited if I go this route.
call to action fucked around with this message at 21:26 on Apr 2, 2018 |
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Apr 2, 2018 21:21
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Generic Monk posted:do board makers put x16 slots on the boards that go into your average office desktop? seems like they wouldn't tbf. probably the only reason they have it on the z series boards is because they'd just be screaming at amd (even shitey bulldozer-era amd) to eat their lunch otherwise Yeah they do? Not often that it's more than one though.
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Apr 2, 2018 21:29
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Regarding the apple thing it might make more sense if they were working on something on the low end to compete with Chromebooks for the education market. It could even be iOS based or something.
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Apr 2, 2018 21:39
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Multiple companies currently claim to now (or very soon) have ARM processor products which are competitive in the high performance space, it's not impossible that this proposal (if true) is for higher end Macs as well. Apple has already taken the Macintosh line 68k --> PowerPC --> x86, they're probably pretty confident in their ability to transition architectures at this point
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Apr 2, 2018 21:50
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I think it actually sort of makes sense as a direction for Apple to go in, but it seems like there's a risk of further antagonizing the people who were already upset at Apple for not catering to the power user market. I wonder if they'll be able to get Adobe to port their software quickly? I can't imagine the performance will be great if the have to rely on emulation? Maybe they'll have a stupidly high number of cores it something. That would be interesting.
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Apr 2, 2018 21:59
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call to action posted:If I can get an i3-8100 and a new Z370 board for under $200, is that pretty much the best gaming platform you can get for that price? I've only got an R9 290X, so I'm guessing I will be GPU limited if I go this route. Thats a pretty good deal. If you want to cut like $30 off the price, there are literally like a hundred cheaper motherboard SKUs about to come out in a few weeks. But it will likely take some time for the cheapest boards to show up in bulk, and by then Trump will have declared DRAM immoral or something and prices will have tripled for no reason and also everyone is dead from the robot uprising so i dunno if its worth waiting
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Apr 2, 2018 22:12
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mystes posted:Regarding the apple thing it might make more sense if they were working on something on the low end to compete with Chromebooks for the education market. Apple is allergic to making things that are affordable. They're also allergic to making mass-popular computers in general, judging by how they haven't managed to do it since the first Reagan administration.
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Apr 2, 2018 22:30
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Bondi Blue iMacs were Clinton, not Reagan
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Apr 2, 2018 22:31
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Rastor posted:Bondi Blue iMacs were Clinton, not Reagan In the year the iMac came out, 1998, Macs made up 4.6% of computer sales. By 2002, Macs had slipped to 3.5% and by 2005 Macs were down to 2% as they were strangled by being stuck on PowerPC, not starting to grow again until the changeover to Intel. As of last year, the Mac market share had climbed back up to the princely heights of 7.5%, which they'd also been around about in 2016. Now consider that Apple's peak in the market was selling Apple IIs and Macs in 1984 when they managed approximately 25% of the computer market between those. By 1987, combined II and Mac sales made up ~13% of the market (despite Apple sales growing a goodly amount, PC sales were outright exploding), and by 1993 with all non-Mac stuff canceled, the Mac reached its peak solo market share at 12%.
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Apr 3, 2018 00:32
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I'm really not sure which of us has been owned here so I'll just say I love these dead gay forums
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Apr 3, 2018 03:39
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BangersInMyKnickers posted:lol bitcoin doesn't need poo poo for pcie bandwidth. More look this was coming across as a way to multiplex more cards more cards more cards what do I know though, I don't really know what you can and cannot do with pcie switches where dmi isn't a factor. I'm assuming you can't keep putting switches behind switches like your mom does with usb hubs.
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Apr 3, 2018 11:13
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fishmech posted:Yeah they do? Not often that it's more than one though. fair mystes posted:I wonder if they'll be able to get Adobe to port their software quickly? good luck with that Rastor posted:Multiple companies currently claim to now (or very soon) have ARM processor products which are competitive in the high performance space, it's not impossible that this proposal (if true) is for higher end Macs as well. the chip in the ipads was outperforming the one in the fanless MacBook a couple of years ago iirc, and with the newest gen i think it started overtaking the MacBook pros. a lot of that is going to be down to intel steadfastly refusing to increase the core count in those cpus for yonks, but it's still an impressive feat for the thing to be running in that power/heat envelope Generic Monk fucked around with this message at 12:30 on Apr 3, 2018 |
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Apr 3, 2018 12:25
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Potato Salad posted:More look this was coming across as a way to multiplex more cards more cards more cards Oh, you can keep cascading switches. Then you could hit... * 255 bus limit of PCI * on x86, run out of I/O memory space because you only have 64K of it, and each port will reserve a tiny slice * All sorts of hilarious bugs and gotchas as the gross limitations of most BIOS solutions become obvious At some point it’ll all be terrifically bottlenecked.
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Apr 3, 2018 13:12
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Cygni posted:Apple lets that rumor out every time their deal with Intel is about to expire. Remember when they even even leaked an AMD powered desktop and then said they were just 'evaluating'. That AMD GPU sku just screams Apple "just loving do this or we're going with something from AMD from now on" strong arm move. I'm sure Apple would rather not have to strong arm and for Intel to get its poo poo together but as long as they can ultimately get what they need and the schedule and cost they want the status quo is the easiest path I think Apple isn't the most thrilled with Intel right now and I'm sure they are being diligent about exploring alternatives (internal or external) but absolutely  if you can't tell the difference between Apple making an announcement of a future product line and with a Bloomberg speculation article based off unnamed sources
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Apr 3, 2018 13:44
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Apple has a history of this kind of thing, there were rumors about Project Marklar for literally years before they finally announced they were indeed transitioning to x86 in 2005.
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Apr 3, 2018 15:13
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Rastor posted:Apple has a history of this kind of thing, there were rumors about Project Marklar for literally years before they finally announced they were indeed transitioning to x86 in 2005. I don't think people get that just because a company is working on something or rumored to be working on something doesn't mean it will be productized or see the light of day. Unless that Apple made TV is about to hot the market Maybe that work gets leveraged in a successive iteration, maybe key learnings are used in future products, maybe everything about it gets canned and all the employees are shuffled off to distant corners of the company. Bloomberg articles ain't going to know the difference WhyteRyce fucked around with this message at 15:31 on Apr 3, 2018 |
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Apr 3, 2018 15:23
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It took from os x 10.0 to 10.6 before the PPC emulator was scrapped. Even if this does happen, ARM is not fast enough for emulation overhead. It will be years at a minimum.
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Apr 3, 2018 15:28
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redeyes posted:It took from os x 10.0 to 10.6 before the PPC emulator was scrapped. Even if this does happen, ARM is not fast enough for emulation overhead. It will be years at a minimum. What if they licensed out x86 and bolted the two together?
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Apr 3, 2018 15:32
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Why do people speculate that apple will just but a fab because they have gently caress you money? If they are going to dump a bunch of resources into a money pit they have no direct expertise or experience with, shouldn't it be something with a more clear and present danger to their core business like modems?
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Apr 3, 2018 15:35
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Gyrotica posted:What if they licensed out x86 and bolted the two together? Intel would never agree to a licensing deal and AMD's cross-licensing with Intel is specifically structured to prevent anyone else from leveraging it.
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Apr 3, 2018 15:45
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isndl posted:Intel would never agree to a licensing deal and AMD's cross-licensing with Intel is specifically structured to prevent anyone else from leveraging it. AMD licensed x86 to China in 2016
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Apr 3, 2018 15:53
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redeyes posted:It took from os x 10.0 to 10.6 before the PPC emulator was scrapped. Even if this does happen, ARM is not fast enough for emulation overhead. It will be years at a minimum. Microsoft partners are shipping Qualcomm laptops with full windows like as we speak. Not saying it’s gonna be good, cause lol Microsoft (no x64 emulation later yet), but it’s not a fanciful idea. I don’t think anyone expects them to replace Intel in workstations, but MacBooks are absolutely in the realm of reason. Cygni fucked around with this message at 16:22 on Apr 3, 2018 |
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Apr 3, 2018 16:19
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Risky Bisquick posted:AMD licensed x86 to China in 2016 The details on that deal are kind of murky but it seems less "here's some IP you can use in your chips" and more "our engineers will work with yours to build a chip using combined IP". That the deal is for the local Chinese market probably helps keep Intel off AMD's back, Intel probably doesn't want to pick a fight with the Chinese government who almost certainly won't rule in favor of Intel in this case. The Intel/AMD cross-licensing deal is anti-competitive and Apple could force it open but it'd be years of court battles to make it happen. It's much easier to make noise about switching and pull concessions out of Intel every few years.
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Apr 3, 2018 16:26
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If you feel like going down a bit of a rabbit hole go ahead and look up the WuDaoKou and Lujiazui processor architectures
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Apr 3, 2018 16:37
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https://hothardware.com/news/intel-coffee-lake-mobile-desktop-optane-core-i9 The next revolutionary release of Intel processors. 6 core in a laptop is cool. One of the chips turbos up to 4.8ghz.
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Apr 3, 2018 19:55
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https://www.anandtech.com/show/12607/intel-expands-8th-gen-core-core-i9-on-mobile-iris-plus-desktop-chipsets-and-vpro Here's a better article. Is this update crushing the Intel fan boy, or just such a bunch of nothing that no one cares?
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Apr 4, 2018 22:00
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WhyteRyce posted:Why do people speculate that apple will just but a fab because they have gently caress you money? If they are going to dump a bunch of resources into a money pit they have no direct expertise or experience with, shouldn't it be something with a more clear and present danger to their core business like modems? Apple has "gently caress you" money, but they'd have to invest about *half* of it to set up their own fab(s). It'd be one hell of an investment, and the only way it'd be profitable is if they became another TSMC and subcontracted them out or made DRAM/NAND for the general market. I can see their angle - right now whenever you buy an iPhone or Apple desktop or laptop, Samsung gets paid - it'd stand to reason they'd like to change that.
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Apr 4, 2018 22:13
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Lol I'm trying to sell my old desktop since I don't think use it really; i7-4790k, 16gb ram, case, 600w sfx psu, 250gb 850 Evo and some guy is positively apoplexic that I'm not selling it to him for 350 bucks...
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Apr 4, 2018 22:16
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There's at least some amount of competition in the radio space, its keeping the premium on BoM down for that component. Processor is a big-budget item and the primary power consumer in the system. Moving to their own arm chips means no Intel price premium, tighter platform integration (CPU/GPU/memory SoC possible), smaller form factors, better battery life, a bunch of other benefits. I think its inevitable that they will go there as they look to create less-expensive MacBooks so they can better compete with OEM craptops on price without killing their margin AND promoting platform locking for their customers.
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Apr 4, 2018 22:16
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Watermelon Daiquiri posted:Lol I'm trying to sell my old desktop since I don't think use it really; i7-4790k, 16gb ram, case, 600w sfx psu, 250gb 850 Evo and some guy is positively apoplexic that I'm not selling it to him for 350 bucks... How much do you think some ancient used hardware cost?
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Apr 4, 2018 23:40
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350 is on the low end, and it's not worth it if the guy is weird. I'd start at 500, assuming there's a motherboard included too. If you're not including a motherboard then 350 is reasonable because you can't see it all work beforehand.
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Apr 4, 2018 23:49
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Yeah, it's a full complete system; 500 was my asking price lmao
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Apr 5, 2018 00:09
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cinci zoo sniper posted:How much do you think some ancient used hardware cost? That setup is easily a 2-3 video card lifecycle.
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