|
chiasaur11 posted:You must be real fun at parties. And 'just following orders' does not absolve people of war crimes, so what's your point?
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2018 05:43
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 12, 2024 16:10 |
|
|
chiasaur11 posted:You must be real fun at parties. All those parties where people casually discuss the ethics of war, right? gently caress off with this lazy catchphrase bullshit
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2018 05:46
|
|
|
I can't even enjoy this burger around you people
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2018 05:50
|
|
|
Xarbala posted:I can't even enjoy this burger around you people You need some more salt. Unfortunately we can't just turn the ship around to get some more.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2018 05:52
|
|
|
ACES CURE PLANES posted:And 'just following orders' does not absolve people of war crimes, so what's your point? You don't see the problem with your worldview, do you? If war crimes are an inevitable product of war, if there's no concept of "righteous" conduct within the context, then there's no point to highlighting war crimes. Your attempts to convict the guilty destroy the possibility of innocence, and therefore the entire framework you depend on to judge. If a "just" war can exist, even theoretically, then an unjust war has grounds for complaint. But in this context there's no difference between a Steiner Hardy killing uniformed combatants in an attempt to save innocent lives and a Gihren conducting mass scale genocide, because you've eliminated the idea of "less bad" at the jump. You think you're providing some noble and enlightened position by declaring all war equally invalid, but instead you provide justification for monstrous action and no protection for action that, in other frameworks, is seen as tragic but righteous. You're right I shouldn't have been casually dismissive, though. Sorry about that. chiasaur11 fucked around with this message at 06:01 on Apr 3, 2018 |
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2018 05:57
|
|
|
Arcsquad12 posted:Does Zeon apologia extend beyond Japan? Because pretty much everyone in this thread, myself included, gets a rather strong reaction to the more "Zeon wasn't so bad" series in the franchise. visit the gundam subreddit sometime
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2018 06:04
|
|
|
GulagDolls posted:visit the gundam subreddit sometime Yeah, there's bits of it every now and again, usually "I'm not saying Zeon was right, but..." across the internet, but there's one guy there who is just ridiculously pro-Gihren. Not even pro Zeon, shame about the colony drops, but "Boy, double Hitler is great!" It's weird.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2018 06:13
|
|
|
The hell are you talking about? What it sounds like you're trying to say is that because the end goal is killing the bad guys doing the bad thing, that justifies everything else? Has there ever been a conflict that anyone has ever been involved in that hasn't had an ulterior motive that didn't at least undercut the stated goal, if not work against it?
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2018 06:14
|
|
|
It's been quite a while since I watched 0080 but just off the top of my head, they don't completely play the Zeon squad as good guys in a bad war. They may have their regular dude aspects but they're also special forces. They're relatable and it doesn't really pretend they're spotless but there's this undercurrent that they're not 'just' average joe soldiers in a bad war. It's definitely on the softer end of it though, where it's easier to pretend that a group of people weren't awful because those aspects aren't immediately obvious.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2018 06:18
|
|
|
Argas posted:It's been quite a while since I watched 0080 but just off the top of my head, they don't completely play the Zeon squad as good guys in a bad war. They may have their regular dude aspects but they're also special forces. They're relatable and it doesn't really pretend they're spotless but there's this undercurrent that they're not 'just' average joe soldiers in a bad war. There's some variation. Garcia's portrayed as much more trigger happy than the rest of the crew, with the scene where he wants to kill the cop investigating Al's story, while Hardy's trying to keep things under control, and Bernie's a rookie with no real idea what war actually entails. (Really, all three of the leads are pretty inexperienced. Chris has rank, but until the Kampfer fight she's just been test piloting.)
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2018 06:30
|
|
|
chiasaur11 posted:Yeah, which kinda ties into why that aspect feels so weird to me. i don't think that was pulling the rug out from under the viewer (that moment's at latest more when darryl starts talking about how awesome getting to fight in his giant robot is while he's battling with io to the death), it's more sealing any ambiguity on the point (Thunderbolt Is Not Subtle): Darryl is just as bad as Io, and if you had any remaining doubts about it, darryl's own speechless shock at the realization should be confirmation enough. you could argue that darryl was fighting for his friends or didn't revel in the fighting the same way io did, but ultimately darryl's a dude who became a quadriplegic exclusively for the purpose of murdering more people better. but no one has ever actually pointed out to him how hosed up it is that he's messed up in the head because one of his buddies died, shortly after him and that same buddy slaughtered dozens of feddie troops. and that's the moment when io finally tells him "i hope you don't think you came out of this looking like the good guy, scrub" it shouldn't be news to the viewer, but it's news to darryl ANAmal.net posted:Gotta be honest, I haven't seen Thunderbolt, and while I want to watch it for the animation quality and the OYW setting and the overall bleakness, I keep getting put off by how much of a horrible piece of poo poo Io sounds like, and the fact that he ostensibly "wins" (I realize that Thunderbolt deliberately isn't that clear cut) keeps turning me off. I'm already dealing with the tail end of IBO, I don't know if I can handle another shithead winning out at the end of a Gundam series, even if the Zeon guys are even worse. man io loses. (or it's arguably a draw) he just gets out of being chained, naked, and beaten to a pulp off camera, and then his side wins the war off camera, so he doesn't die i guess? that's winning, in a sense. ninjewtsu fucked around with this message at 08:24 on Apr 3, 2018 |
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2018 08:19
|
|
|
Thanks for the opinions, guys. Based on the discussion, I’ll definitely check out War in the Pocket, and Thunderbolt sounds like it’ll be an interesting watch even if I don’t end up loving it. MS Igloo on the other hand, sounds awful so I’ll skip it unless I’m really bored or something. Started my UC watch-through with the first movie of the MSG trilogy. It moved a lot faster than I remembered and the reveal of Char loving over Garma and laughing maniacally over it is absolutely hilarious.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2018 08:25
|
|
|
Arcsquad12 posted:Does Zeon apologia extend beyond Japan? Because pretty much everyone in this thread, myself included, gets a rather strong reaction to the more "Zeon wasn't so bad" series in the franchise. I figure a whole shitload of the Zeon love and hate and complication is because Zeon seems to really clearly be imperial Japan and it isn't like Japanese history prior to 1930 was erased from existence.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2018 08:45
|
|
|
nemesis_hub posted:Thanks for the opinions, guys. Based on the discussion, I’ll definitely check out War in the Pocket, and Thunderbolt sounds like it’ll be an interesting watch even if I don’t end up loving it. MS Igloo on the other hand, sounds awful so I’ll skip it unless I’m really bored or something. The best part about Thunderbolt is that December Sky is an hour long so it doesn't overstay its welcome regardless of whether you love it or hate it, so anyone can find time to watch it and form their own opinion.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2018 10:10
|
|
|
First episode of GB Divers wasn't too bad. Not quite as steeped in fan service as GBF but there were still a great number of cameos and a few peeks at some of the player characters and their suits. They really go in on the whole online game angle protagonist gets trolled into his first PvP battle by a noob hunter.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2018 10:26
|
|
|
I had a quick flick through one of the Thunderbolt manga in Travelling Man the other day and the way the Komusai attack on the Spartan starts out is hilariously different. In the animation, the kamikaze soldiers are saluted by their commanding officer and told they are among the elite of Zeon. But in the manga, their CO is unironically like 'FINALLY, SOMETHING YOU CRIPPLES ARE ACTUALLY USEFUL FOR. HERE IS A SALAMI AND CHEESE SANDWICH, NOW OFF YOU GO.' Are the rest of the books like that?
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2018 10:32
|
|
|
chiasaur11 posted:You don't see the problem with your worldview, do you? Why does ‘all war is morally abrasive’ contradict the idea that war crimes can be varying degrees of horrifying? All crimes are unethical, but we look more harshly on the dude who rapemurders his entire family than the one who snatches a wallet. Seriously, you’re jumping to some weird conclusions about a relatively uncontroversial statement here - the moral compromises demanded by war and their effect on the soul show up in pretty much every soldier’s memoirs.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2018 11:05
|
|
|
Darth Walrus posted:Why does ‘all war is morally abrasive’ contradict the idea that war crimes can be varying degrees of horrifying? All crimes are unethical, but we look more harshly on the dude who rapemurders his entire family than the one who snatches a wallet. Looking back, you're probably right. I'm being a bit of a dumbass. Sorry, Aces. At least Build Divers starts tomorrow to provide a distraction from me running my keyboard off in a stupid direction.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2018 12:34
|
|
|
First stop of Build Divers is up on Gundaminfo, sorry but I can't seem to get my phone to give me the link. Edit: got it https://youtu.be/hq7j_l6_lCs DIVE DIVE DIVE
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2018 13:59
|
|
|
So are we not having a separate Build Divers thread?
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2018 14:01
|
|
|
Raxivace posted:So are we not having a separate Build Divers thread? Be the change you want to see in the world.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2018 14:03
|
|
|
Darth Walrus posted:Be the change you want to see in the world.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2018 14:07
|
|
|
I'm not doing an OP on my phone. Just on the intro now: Seems possible we will see continuity from GBF but not sure. Will definitely see IBO suits.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2018 14:08
|
|
|
I will say that I’m looking forward to Magee throwing down, because all signs indicate that he will wreck face spectacularly.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2018 14:22
|
|
|
Also, since we were chatting about Thunderbolt, I should bring up this neat video about its soundtrack again: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kv2hCZHbn4
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2018 14:27
|
|
|
Darth Walrus posted:I will say that I’m looking forward to Magee throwing down, because all signs indicate that he will wreck face spectacularly. He's a stated high level player and they've not revealed his suit yet, should be something special. I like them depicting literal trolls with horns.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2018 14:37
|
|
|
screencaps of the mission types  Gundam Build Divers: LET'S BUILD A SOLAR RAY
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2018 15:11
|
|
|
I like Dramatic Mission and whatever that Master Asia’s 1000 Person thing is.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2018 15:13
|
|
|
ManSedan posted:I like Dramatic Mission and whatever that Master Asia’s 1000 Person thing is. kumite. TL note: kumite means fight
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2018 15:16
|
|
|
Gundam portraying individual soldiers as sympathetic is something that goes all the way back to 0079, where entire eps are dedicated to rando zeon soldiers being decent guys (and the opposite for rando feds).
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2018 15:18
|
|
|
If we don't see a Quiz Mission in the show, I'm going to be so disappointed. Say, is that Patrick?
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2018 15:18
|
|
|
Patrick what are you doing here. Where is Kati, you need her to keep your poo poo in check, even in gunpla fights.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2018 15:19
|
|
|
Guy Goodbody posted:kumite. TL note: kumite means fight is it 1000 people fighting master asia or 1 person fighting 1000 master asia's
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2018 15:21
|
|
|
Guy Goodbody posted:kumite. TL note: kumite means fight I can never not see this and here it being barked by Jason Mantzoukas. https://youtu.be/ZSttqtFOiDs
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2018 15:30
|
|
|
Caphi posted:If we don't see a Quiz Mission in the show, I'm going to be so disappointed. We'll get if after the obligatory bikini beach mission. Seeing as how they seem to be going all in on the online game tropes I think we might actually get to see a wide range of mission types and challenges which at the very least is a welcome switch up from the previous series' stricter tournament setups.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2018 15:32
|
|
|
One gripe I do have is that the 00 Diver looks too powerful for the underdog newbie suit it is. I feel that our protagonist’s first machine should be a little more basic and crappy.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2018 15:34
|
|
|
Give me more random bullshit like gunpla baseball and not just the same 3 v 3 tournament over and over please.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2018 15:34
|
|
|
Darth Walrus posted:One gripe I do have is that the 00 Diver looks too powerful for the underdog newbie suit it is. I feel that our protagonist’s first machine should be a little more basic and crappy. It should be an HG Zaku II from 1985.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2018 15:36
|
|
|
Darth Walrus posted:One gripe I do have is that the 00 Diver looks too powerful for the underdog newbie suit it is. I feel that our protagonist’s first machine should be a little more basic and crappy. they figured making you think about 00 s2 whenever you see it was crappy enough
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2018 15:38
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 12, 2024 16:10 |
|
|
Manatee Cannon posted:they figured making you think about 00 s2 whenever you see it was crappy enough I could buy that if the ultra-cool, super-badass champion suit wasn’t from AGE.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2018 15:39
|
|