|
ate all the Oreos posted:is this question "what sport is best to play if you're trans" or "which sports are trans people allowed to play because most of the time their you mean that one bad joke I made five years ago that I immediately apologized for because I realized the tone came off totally wrong? looks like the internet really never forgets. the reason I’m asking is because there’s a bunch of controversy with transwomen playing against ciswomen in sports and I was interested what was your take on that whole subject. I’m not interested in arguing about this, just asking out of curiosity.
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2018 15:43
|
|
get in the way of the ball"
|
|
| # ? Jun 12, 2024 08:19 |
|
|
trans women and trans men are women and men respectively and shouldn't be treated differently than cis women and cis men imho
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2018 15:45
|
|
|
computer toucher posted:you mean that one bad joke I made five years ago that I immediately apologized for because I realized the tone came off totally wrong? looks like the internet really never forgets. sorry man it's just the number one thing that gets dragged out whenever someone wonders why the 'pos can't have nice things  i'll update my poster spreadsheets accordinglycomputer toucher posted:the reason I’m asking is because there’s a bunch of controversy with transwomen playing against ciswomen in sports and I was interested what was your take on that whole subject. I’m not interested in arguing about this, just asking out of curiosity. other than the whole "they're women regardless" thing, which is really where the line of questioning should end, as far as i know there's no valid biological reason that transwomen would have an unfair advantage (assuming they'd been on HRT for a while), and if anything they'd probably be at a disadvantage due to side effects from the HRT.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2018 16:18
|
|
|
ate all the Oreos posted:sorry man it's just the number one thing that gets dragged out whenever someone wonders why the 'pos can't have nice things It’s ok, it was a dumb post, I guess I deserve the occasional slap for it. ate all the Oreos posted:other than the whole "they're women regardless" thing, which is really where the line of questioning should end, as far as i know there's no valid biological reason that transwomen would have an unfair advantage (assuming they'd been on HRT for a while), and if anything they'd probably be at a disadvantage due to side effects from the HRT. Yeah, I guess HRT would level the playing field a lot.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2018 16:36
|
|
|
there's always the twitter knockoff "mastodon" which has been gaining popularity as a decentralized social media net. my exposure is limited but it's full of queer people. since anybody can host their own instance of it there's also a bunch of queer-oriented ones. if you don't like the fundamental way twitter works though mastodon won't be much better cis autodrag posted:your new avatar is pretty good 
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2018 18:15
|
|
|
Zamujasa posted:there's always the twitter knockoff "mastodon" which has been gaining popularity as a decentralized social media net. my exposure is limited but it's full of queer people. since anybody can host their own instance of it there's also a bunch of queer-oriented ones. yeah even as a white cis tech bro most of the people i read & chat with aren't, it's pretty nice
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2018 18:54
|
|
|
Zamujasa posted:
I didn't buy it. I assume it came from one of the psychos who thinks I'm a narcissist for making a safe space for queer yosposters.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2018 18:56
|
|
|
im gonna own this queer poster by giving them a cute dog as an avatar. 
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2018 18:59
|
|
|
ate all the Oreos posted:sorry man it's just the number one thing that gets dragged out whenever someone wonders why the 'pos can't have nice things I agree with this with reservations. Athletics and HRT just hasn't been studied that much. HRT in general hasn't been studied that much We can say subjectively they most trans women report reduced strength and endurance, but there hasn't been a huge empirical effort to put numbers to that That said, I have a friend who is a retired competitive cyclist who started hormones last year and she said her times have decreased about 30 percent in that span and she can't ride as far anymore. The issue with anecdotes like this is that some of this is almost certainly psychosomatic; trans women convince themselves hormones are doing all sorts of poo poo to them that let's them perform stereotyped femininity better. On the whole I think there's 0 problem with trans women playing non contact sports unless we suddenly see them dominating all the top spots. However as a former fighter, I'm not sure trans women should be fighting cis women. Raw strength and endurance might be equal, it a male puberty means in just have better strength and leverages regardless of weight just due to my anatomy and there's just no way to quantify that. I'll also just throw in the final thought that the whole "debate" on this is rooted in conservative dick fear like everything else. Nobody gives a gently caress if trans guys compete with men, but suddenly it's a big deal with a trans lady wants to try for a women's track team.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2018 19:03
|
|
|
cis autodrag posted:However as a former fighter, I'm not sure trans women should be fighting cis women. Raw strength and endurance might be equal, it a male puberty means in just have better strength and leverages regardless of weight just due to my anatomy and there's just no way to quantify that. all my information on this comes from that dumb controversy surrounding MMA a while back, where the conclusion I heard from friends who paid more attention than I did was that trans women fairly quickly lose muscle mass advantage and also tend to have weaker bones cis autodrag posted:I'll also just throw in the final thought that the whole "debate" on this is rooted in conservative dick fear like everything else. Nobody gives a gently caress if trans guys compete with men, but suddenly it's a big deal with a trans lady wants to try for a women's track team. yyyyep
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2018 19:49
|
|
|
i'm submitting this as relevant reading to the question of trans people in sports: https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-olympics-are-still-struggling-to-define-gender/ my takeaway: many top-level athletes (both men and women) use exogenous testosterone to gain a competitive advantage. sports leagues make perfunctory gestures towards stopping this, but mostly they just look the other way. in 2018 many trans people are using exogenous sex hormones, including testosterone. including trans people in sports means having to completely re-evaluate the policies surrounding this, which they are loathe to do
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2018 19:59
|
|
|
Helianthus Annuus posted:my takeaway: many top-level athletes (both men and women) use exogenous testosterone to gain a competitive advantage. sports leagues make perfunctory gestures towards stopping this, but mostly they just look the other way. in 2018 many trans people are using exogenous sex hormones, including testosterone. including trans people in sports means having to completely re-evaluate the policies surrounding this, which they are loathe to do this is my takeaway too. even if its something thats a medical necessity it can still be considered performance enhancing. imo just let the sportsmans juice up until their heart bursts while they are running bases, would add a bit of excitement.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2018 20:05
|
|
|
cis autodrag posted:However as a former fighter, I'm not sure trans women should be fighting cis women. Raw strength and endurance might be equal, it a male puberty means in just have better strength and leverages regardless of weight just due to my anatomy and there's just no way to quantify that. yeah, as a current stranglesports hobbyist/enthusiast I’m wondering how this would work while competing since I’ve understood that there’s a lot of different physical stages that are considered trans and not everyone goes the full surgery/hrt route. I guess you’d have to set up some barriers that merely self-reporting as female isn’t enough to compete in the women’s division even though there’s still Gabi Garcia to beat. but yeah I guess I got my question answered, don’t want to derail your thread any further. Thanks!
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2018 20:11
|
|
|
i'm just reminded of the anti-steroid commercials that showed a bunch of sports balls shrivelling up steroids and the culture around them is weird
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2018 20:12
|
|
|
computer toucher posted:yeah, as a current stranglesports hobbyist/enthusiast I’m wondering how this would work while competing since I’ve understood that there’s a lot of different physical stages that are considered trans and not everyone goes the full surgery/hrt route. I guess you’d have to set up some barriers that merely self-reporting as female isn’t enough to compete in the women’s division even though there’s still Gabi Garcia to beat. I'm not even talking about nonbinary people here. I'm a full on trans woman with average female hormone levels but at the end of the day my chest is broader, my limbs are longer, and my hips are higher and these give me advantages in terms of leverages that aren't available to someone who had a female puberty. I'm no stronger than a cis woman if similar weight, but 8 can crank an arm-in choke or a knee bar harder and further just due to length of levers. Also i can punch and kick from like 2 feet further away I dunno, it's something that needs to be studied more. Fallon Fox is an old lady fighting other old ladies in a swamp league. Data from her fights isn't a robust enough data set to draw conclusions from (and of course everyone she beats whines about "man strength")
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2018 21:05
|
|
|
Improbable Lobster posted:well dang if it makes you feel better I assumed it meant New Brunswick person instead of non binary person since you guys are canadians lol
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2018 21:47
|
|
|
personally i don't think i've lost stamina but i know for certain that i have lost strength i go to the gym 2-3 times a week and have derby practice for 3 hours every thursday i haven't noticed a difference in stamina since my hormone levels changed
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2018 01:10
|
|
|
even taken for granted that it might actually give a fighter an advantage, i can't imagine that compared to the normal variation present in cis women let alone cis women competing in MMA (which self-selects for the more athletic physique) it's anything more than marginal against an entire field compared to the variation that fighter skill/other attributes contributes? i'm not even entirely sure such a thing can be measured if you tried and had all the volunteers on hand to generate the data, and at that point, is it really worth worrying about?
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2018 02:05
|
|
|
E4C85D38 posted:even taken for granted that it might actually give a fighter an advantage, i can't imagine that compared to the normal variation present in cis women let alone cis women competing in MMA (which self-selects for the more athletic physique) it's anything more than marginal against an entire field compared to the variation that fighter skill/other attributes contributes? i'm not even entirely sure such a thing can be measured if you tried and had all the volunteers on hand to generate the data, and at that point, is it really worth worrying about? Only in the sense that I want to avoid sensational headlines about it. In reality it probably doesn't matter that much but the optics of combat sports are just different because they're barely tolerated to begin with. A trans vs cis match where the trans fighter was actually young, athletic, and good would be the fastest ticket to a congressional witch hunt on trans athletes ever. I'll sacrifice fighting if it means my sisters can do every other sport.
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2018 02:16
|
|
|
i guess the optics are a thing but it's gonna happen sooner or later anyway--everyone and their mother is proposing a standard, scholastic integration of trans people is probably going to continue to go forward in areas amenable to it, and pictures fly on the internet (after all, we have video of the match with Beggs, the trans guy only allowed to compete against women, and... yeah that did stir up quite something, but it was honestly a better reception than I was expecting) if only we had some sort of body whose job was to make a case-by-case determination of whether a fighter's sum total of physique, skill, ability, and experience stacked up against another fighter's (which is very much an imprecise and eyeballed thing) would be too unfair to be allowed to happen. you would have to send all proposed fights to them and they'd have to sign off on it before it could go forward. (actually a fear of mine is that if athletic commissions get transphobes in them and suddenly no fights w/trans fighters will be approved ever because it's policy now)
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2018 04:21
|
|
|
E4C85D38 posted:i guess the optics are a thing but it's gonna happen sooner or later anyway--everyone and their mother is proposing a standard, scholastic integration of trans people is probably going to continue to go forward in areas amenable to it, and pictures fly on the internet (after all, we have video of the match with Beggs, the trans guy only allowed to compete against women, and... yeah that did stir up quite something, but it was honestly a better reception than I was expecting) Athletic commissions are a joke. They let cyborg fight people who aren't human steroid golems. A commission signing off would not give a fight any credibility whatsoever. They let James Toney fight randy couture ffs. I'm not saying it'll never happen, but trans women in mma I want to see solid science done first for the protection of the trans women from gross accusations. If I entered an amateur fight right now and won I can imagine the awful things people would say. "6'4 ex-male freakshow maims adorable mom" or some poo poo. I get this is a really paranoid take, but I just don't think America is ready for us in combat sports without some serious science behind us, and HRT is barely studied at all, much less in a sports context. I talked about this in my mega medicine post, but trans hormone therapy is just barely a step above folk medicine even in this day and age. Nobody wants to put the money into it when just taking lovely menopause and blood pressure drugs off-label is "good enough" for our tiny unprofitable minority.
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2018 04:29
|
|
|
cis autodrag posted:Athletic commissions are a joke. They let cyborg fight people who aren't human steroid golems. A commission signing off would not give a fight any credibility whatsoever. They let James Toney fight randy couture ffs. the notion of fairness in sports seems really arbitrary to me. i know we have things like separate leagues for men and women, different weight classes, etc, ostensibly for the sake of fairness. but it doesn't seem scientific to me at all. it seems like you have to make this determination: "these differences between competitors matter for the sake of fairness, but these other differences don't." how do you go about sorting differences between competitors into each category? setting aside the currently used rules in mma... i'd be interested to hear what criteria you would like to see used to match someone like you against a suitable opponent for the purposes of setting up a fair competition. i'd also be interested to hear your thoughts about fairness in sports in general, because its a topic i struggle to reason about.
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2018 19:00
|
|
|
cis autodrag posted:I'm not saying it'll never happen, but trans women in mma I want to see solid science done first for the protection of the trans women from gross accusations. If I entered an amateur fight right now and won I can imagine the awful things people would say. "6'4 ex-male freakshow maims adorable mom" or some poo poo. If I knew you were going to be in an MMA fight I'd pay to watch that.
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2018 19:03
|
|
|
akadajet posted:If I knew you were going to be in an MMA fight I'd pay to watch that. Let's implement the bullshido throw down rule: I will fight any poster who has a problem with me.
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2018 20:16
|
|
|
cis autodrag posted:Let's implement the bullshido throw down rule: I will fight any poster who has a problem with me. lol
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2018 20:19
|
|
|
akadajet posted:lol *does josh barnett throat slash thing*
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2018 21:23
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2018 23:11
|
|
|
Don't doxx me
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2018 23:17
|
|
|
cis autodrag posted:Let's implement the bullshido throw down rule: I will fight any poster who has a problem with me. I don’t have a problem with you, but I’ll roll with anyone!
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2018 07:09
|
|
|
<--- loving loser.
Somebody fucked around with this message at 02:49 on Apr 8, 2018 |
|
#
?
Apr 8, 2018 01:16
|
|
|
<--- loving loser.
Somebody fucked around with this message at 02:49 on Apr 8, 2018 |
|
#
?
Apr 8, 2018 01:22
|
|
|
You attacked me for no reason for having a drag queen avatar. Please stay out of the queer thread.
|
|
#
?
Apr 8, 2018 01:44
|
|
|
<--- loving loser.
Somebody fucked around with this message at 02:49 on Apr 8, 2018 |
|
#
?
Apr 8, 2018 01:45
|
|
|
cis autodrag posted:You attacked me for no reason for having a drag queen avatar. That's a husky puppy, not a drag queen.
|
|
#
?
Apr 8, 2018 01:46
|
|
|
akadajet posted:That's a husky puppy, not a drag queen.
|
|
#
?
Apr 8, 2018 01:49
|
|
|
akadajet posted:That's a husky puppy, not a drag queen. Again, one of the transphobes who follows lowtax in here bought this avatar. SmokaDustbowl attacked me for no loving reason over my Trixie Mattel avatar in the pics thread. I don't want hostile rear end holes in this thread.
|
|
#
?
Apr 8, 2018 01:50
|
|
|
<--- loving loser.
Somebody fucked around with this message at 02:49 on Apr 8, 2018 |
|
#
?
Apr 8, 2018 01:53
|
|
|
<--- loving loser.
Somebody fucked around with this message at 02:49 on Apr 8, 2018 |
|
#
?
Apr 8, 2018 01:53
|
|
|
I don't think anyone going to travel all the way to nowhere, canada to fight you smoka.
|
|
#
?
Apr 8, 2018 01:54
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 12, 2024 08:19 |
|
|
This thread is for discussion of queer topics, which neither of you are doing. Knock it off or I will lock the thread until a mod can deal with you. I didn't want to get all draconian because people were mostly being respectful in here but I don't have the energy for bullshit today.
|
|
#
?
Apr 8, 2018 01:56
|
|