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Its been mentioned before but its pretty weird how Cline is all like "80s video games!" and yet focuses explicitly on a brand and system that died in 1983 Like, 95% of us who lived in the 80s as kids played Nintendo, not Atari or Intellivision or whatever
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Apr 3, 2018 19:00
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theflyingorc posted:Faith, Hope, Charity is also a good bit more recognizable as being from First Corinthians than it is from goddamn Schoolhouse Rock. But he was an atheist, and we all know they never know biblical references.
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Apr 3, 2018 19:00
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there wolf posted:I keep thinking of Harry Potter, probably because it has a lot of the same kind of lucky rear end pulls for the protagonist except they don't feel completely unearned. I like the drat coin; it's the one actually clever call back to Cline's beloved arcade games and like with everything else if you only rewrote how he got it and how it got used in a way that built suspense instead of strangling it in the crib it'd be fine. While cheating to beat cheaters may be justifiable, the problem is how the book handles it. None of the characters recognize that they’re winning the Hunt by doing exactly what they insulted their sworn enemies for doing. Instead, it’s treated as the protagonists finally becoming true companions. This is where a lot of RPO’s issues come in. The content itself isn’t what’s bad, but Cline is a crappy writer so things that could easily be justified in writing look like plot holes or bad characterization.
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Apr 3, 2018 19:06
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chitoryu12 posted:While cheating to beat cheaters may be justifiable, the problem is how the book handles it. None of the characters recognize that they’re winning the Hunt by doing exactly what they insulted their sworn enemies for doing. Instead, it’s treated as the protagonists finally becoming true companions. Since Wade said he was broadcasting to over 200 million people on his stream who watched him cheat his way through the final challenges, it would have been neat if instead of being the big hero for beating the big bad cheaters Wade finds himself rich and powerful but hated by all for pulling the same exact cheating they did.
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Apr 3, 2018 19:19
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HopperUK posted:I just don't get this weird thing that happens with some authors where the pattern of the story is: Man, this is EXTREMELY common in nerd circles, apparently. I played in an rpg group for a while where a good friend of mine ran a (way too long) scifi game where the main villain got killed off about 1/3 of the way though and then the big climax of the campaign was a spaceship race that had about a 1/2 session of buildup. Same dude then ran a Ravenloft game that ended up us just wandering through a forest and fighting birds for 3 straight sessions then rolling over the villain. THEN, another dude from that group runs the easiest walkthrough campaigns because he's told me straight up that he DOESN'T like tension and "bad things happening to his heroes." This guy literally wrote a letter to Jim Butcher because he was physically angry at all of the stuff that Harry Dresden has to endure.
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Apr 3, 2018 19:32
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TBH, Leopardon being Wade’s signature ride feels like it would be easy to make work, too. It’s basically his ultimate embrace of all that is cheesy, kitschy, and charmingly lame about Halliday’s preferred media. If you’re writing him as someone who starts out just doing this as a job and gradually falls in love with the media he’s immersed in, having him go ‘holy poo poo yes, forget the stats, forget the metagame, I’m going to win this dumb game with loving Leopardon and nobody’s going to stop me’ and then master using it because mecha combat in the OASIS is really goddamned fun would be a great little turning point. It could be a cool setup for the final battle, too. Sorrento’s just taken out Shoto and Raideen, and is turning towards them, and Wade knows they won’t make it to the Third Gate without being incinerated. The IOI’s CEO is riding this insane beast of a machine that’s been minmaxed as hard as the game will allow, while Wade’s still in his crappy little mecha from a crappy low-budget toku, but he knows that someone needs to get to the Gate before IOI takes over the world, and it doesn’t really matter who it is. So he turns back and faces Sorrento to buy his friends time... and finds that he’s having a far easier time than he should be. Sorrento isn’t a gamer. He hasn’t mastered the OASIS, because that would require him, on some level, to enjoy it. He’s just using high-end gear and a horde of loyal goons to brute-force his way through so he can claim his prize. Wade may be hilariously under-equipped, but he’s not on a suicide run like he thought. He can actually win this. Cue the epic battle scene.
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Apr 3, 2018 19:35
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EdsTeioh posted:This guy literally wrote a letter to Jim Butcher because he was physically angry at all of the stuff that Harry Dresden has to endure. tbf I've read one of those books (Grave Peril) and the last third of it or so was extremely stressful Like, I'm not saying he's right or anything, because if you don't actually like your media to contain tension you are a huge loving wimp, but I can kind of understand the idea that a certain amount of misery is too much to have to suffer through as a consumer
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Apr 3, 2018 19:48
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Darth Walrus posted:TBH, Leopardon being Wade’s signature ride feels like it would be easy to make work, too. It’s basically his ultimate embrace of all that is cheesy, kitschy, and charmingly lame about Halliday’s preferred media. If you’re writing him as someone who starts out just doing this as a job and gradually falls in love with the media he’s immersed in, having him go ‘holy poo poo yes, forget the stats, forget the metagame, I’m going to win this dumb game with loving Leopardon and nobody’s going to stop me’ and then master using it because mecha combat in the OASIS is really goddamned fun would be a great little turning point. Alright that goes in the rewrite.
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Apr 3, 2018 19:52
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Darth Walrus posted:TBH, Leopardon being Wade’s signature ride feels like it would be easy to make work, too. It’s basically his ultimate embrace of all that is cheesy, kitschy, and charmingly lame about Halliday’s preferred media. If you’re writing him as someone who starts out just doing this as a job and gradually falls in love with the media he’s immersed in, having him go ‘holy poo poo yes, forget the stats, forget the metagame, I’m going to win this dumb game with loving Leopardon and nobody’s going to stop me’ and then master using it because mecha combat in the OASIS is really goddamned fun would be a great little turning point. I guess I know how we're rewriting the battle! e:fb This is gonna be the best rewrite ever
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Apr 3, 2018 19:56
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chitoryu12 posted:While cheating to beat cheaters may be justifiable, the problem is how the book handles it. None of the characters recognize that they’re winning the Hunt by doing exactly what they insulted their sworn enemies for doing. Instead, it’s treated as the protagonists finally becoming true companions. That's pretty much a summery of all my rewrites. Most everyone is spinning bad-ending scenarios because this poo poo pile brings out the cynicism in everyone. But it's fun to do the opposite and try turn it into a functional peice of wonder and escapism. And with that in mind, that should really be what Wade gets out of the old media. He lives in a dystopian future; make all the current media grueling and depressing. Then he starts chasing the Egg and gets exposed to fun escapism and media that looked at nuclear destruction and still found faith, hope, and charity. There should be some virtue of the 80's that resonates with him other than 'it's just cool I guess.'
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Apr 3, 2018 20:12
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there wolf posted:That's pretty much a summery of all my rewrites. Most everyone is spinning bad-ending scenarios because this poo poo pile brings out the cynicism in everyone. But it's fun to do the opposite and try turn it into a functional peice of wonder and escapism. I still think that Wade should have early exposure to 80's media through his mom, like she tried to make him watch the original MLP, Care Bears and Ghostbusters when he was little but he was so jacked into OASIS daycare that he couldn't comprehend why someone would watch 2D non-interactive media. But when he does find himself having to research the material he starts finding all these things his mom loved which leads him to going after her things first in hopes of finding a connection with her but eventually starts to branch out as he starts finding things that give him passion and joy. Hell split the difference with the ending; Halliday is a horrible mosnter who wants the world to conform to his interests and Wade who doesn't deny the appeal of nostalgia and fandom rejects the Universal Canon that Halliday is trying to create.
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Apr 3, 2018 20:22
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quote:“Do you guys see this?” I whispered.  The screen simply reads "LOGIN:". Wade first tries "ANORAK", which doesn't work. Neither does "HALLIDAY", "OGDEN", or "OG". He gets the idea to play off Halliday's obsession and try "KIRA", but that doesn't work either. He tries his parents' names, his pet's names (Tiberius the ferret and Zaphod the fish), nothing. Finally, he remembers what he read in his biography: he could only talk to Kira using her D&D character's name. quote:I rebooted the computer again. When the LOGIN prompt reappeared, I typed in LEUCOSIA. Then I hit the Enter key. Oh. Oh that's it. If you were just skimming this book, you could easily run into Wade finding the egg by accident. None of it has any more fanfare or emotion than him getting sorta-dumped by Art3mis. The book just sort of meanders its way to the finale. The double doors in the wall are replaced by the Third Gate. Wade walks through, finding himself in Castle Anorak even though the castle was still several hours from being restored in the server reset. He walks up the steps in front of him and finds himself in Anorak's study, the room from the animation that Halliday used to have on his personal website. Below the painting of the black dragon is a golden, jewel-encrusted chalice perfectly sized for Wade to put the egg in. quote:In the distance, I heard a fanfare of trumpets, and the egg began to glow. So let's cover how meaningless this platitude is. First, Wade is now the most powerful individual on the planet. Even though he's splitting the money equally between him and his friends so they're all going to be billionaires 60 times over, he's now got the same admin powers as Og and control over GSS. He's become Jeff Bezos, Elon Musk, Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, and Mark Zuckerberg combined in the sense of how wealthy and powerful he is. Now, consider just how Wade got this power. He was the most turbonerd of turbonerds, obsessively watching 80s films dozens of times until he had the dialogue memorized and staring at a screen for endless thousands of hours until he had perfectly mastered just about every arcade game from the decade. He breezed through every OASIS conflict that didn't involve the Hunt because he removed all his body hair to live in an empty apartment drinking Vitamin D supplements while spending every waking moment in OASIS until he had the biggest armory and garage outside of IOI. Halliday may tell Wade "reality is real", but Wade would have lost everything if he followed that. He would have graduated from school without enough money or scholarship prospects to do anything but become one of the masses of refugees lining the streets of the apocalyptic wasteland that is the real world, unless he sacrificed his morals to join IOI. Speaking of which, IOI would have won easily. Nobody actually needed Wade's success to find any of the keys or gates (remember that Art3mis had been working on the Copper Key for a month before Wade stumbled upon it), so it's not like him finding it was the trigger for the Hunt continuing. So they would have gotten control of OASIS as well. Only by ignoring Halliday's reassurance that he doesn't have to waste his time playing video games and that he needs to live life in reality was Wade able to stop IOI's plans and become the most powerful man on Earth. RPO repeatedly sweeps its own leg (The Karate Kid, 1984) every time Cline tries to add some kind of deeper meaning or commentary on life, and this is the most egregious instance. quote:“Are you guys there?” I said to the empty air a few minutes later. Wade opens the Scoreboard at his friends' urging, to find that it's disappeared. Anorak's study is back, only now Parzival is the one wearing the robes accompanied by PARZIVAL WINS! along the bottom of the screen. Trying to figure out where the Sixers competing with him went, Wade opens his map (as he can now teleport anywhere in OASIS simply by clicking on it) and blinks himself outside the castle gates. All 18 of them are indeed standing outside, looking very confused. They all draw their guns and swords as Wade appears in front of them. quote:Using my avatar’s new superuser interface, I made a sweeping gesture with my hand, selecting all of the Sixer avatars on my display. Their outlines began to glow red. Then I tapped the skull-and-crossbones icon that now appeared on my avatar’s toolbar. All eighteen Sixer avatars instantly dropped dead. Their bodies slowly faded out of existence, each leaving behind a tiny pile of weapons and loot. Oh hey, he also gets to rewrite any of the actual negative consequences that may have occurred in the battle! Nothing matters! Yay! Except Daito! Daito is dead for real and isn't coming back! Yay! His friends log back in, except for Art3mis. She says she'll be outside waiting for Wade when he's ready. quote:I nodded. I was about to tap my Log-out icon when Aech held up her—his—hand. “Wait a second! Before you log out, you’ve got to see something,” he said, opening a window in front of me. “This is airing on all of the newsfeeds right now. The feds just took Sorrento in for questioning. They stormed into IOI headquarters and yanked him right out of his haptic chair!” The sequel to this book is just going to be legal documents isn't it?
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Apr 3, 2018 20:23
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Angry Salami posted:So this fucker read the Almanac, recognized the quote at the end as Shakespeare... but didn't bother checking what play it was from or the context it appeared in or anything to see if that was a clue? Yeah, I can understand that nobody recognized Shakespeare (I don't think the quote given is a really famous one, either), but did no one think to Google (or whatever search engine they had now) that portentous-sounding quote from the end of the Almanac? Especially if it was set off with quotation marks or some other indication that it wasn't Holiday's own words. I'd expect people to scan the Almanac for any quote or allusion and investigate each one in depth. As for Bible references, a lot of the atheists I know are fond of quoting horrible or ridiculous Bible passages, and some (as I did during my edgy phase) take pride in claiming to know the holy book better than its adherents. There is nothing implausible about an atheist using a Bible quote.
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Apr 3, 2018 20:43
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A thought: much is made of the idea that all external feeds into Wade's display get cut out when he reaches Halliday's office, but the other characters are literally in the same building as him now. Can't they just, like, walk up, and take one of his earbuds out, and talk to him normally using their voices? Or is taking out an OASIS user's earbuds considered functionally equivalent to rape or something in this setting
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Apr 3, 2018 20:45
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Also, we only have one more day of updates! There's just one chapter left, followed by Lacero. After that, we're on to Monster Hunter International accompanied by our rewrite of this book.
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Apr 3, 2018 20:50
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It's okay, he could make a Daito NPC that's indistinguishable from the real thing! How hard would it be to code in a racist Japanese stereotype?
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Apr 3, 2018 20:53
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It's already been mentioned that Cline chose the 2000s Mechagodzilla with very little research. Boy didn't he research though. Kaiju and giant robot/sentai stuff is extremely nerdy about the exact size measurements of their embiggened combatants. It takes next to no research to find out exactly how tall each of the bots used in the big battel are, and a Reddit user did just that with this handy graphic: Kiryu being "twice" as tall as Leopardon? No, they're the same height. Ultraman comes up to about Kiryu's armpit. Raideen to its chin. It is about twice as tall as Aech and Art3mis's mechs at least. Also regarding the final challenge, I do like that in a room full of Halliday's retro games, he had to go reenact the very first video game easter egg, that's actually clever. However, him just instinctively knowing how to do it (and knowing to login to the mainframe with the D&D name of the girl Halliday Nice Guy'd) just ruins it by removing all tension or deduction from the scene. Ugh.
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Apr 3, 2018 20:57
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Zanzibar Ham posted:It's okay, he could make a Daito NPC that's indistinguishable from the real thing! How hard would it be to code in a racist Japanese stereotype? Thinking about it some more I sort of get the impression that Daito was a complete afterthought. He's not distinct from Shoto in any way; he's just The Other Shoto, The One Who Dies Like, it kinda seems to me like Cline wrote in the author-insert protagonist, the love interest, a best friend with a twist he probably thought was Extremely Woke, and a Japanese stereotype to satisfy his weeb side, and then his editor or something was like "hey none of your main characters ever really experience any real consequences, maybe you should make one of them have a tragic end of some kind? It'd build IOI's characterization too, really show how high the stakes are" and Cline was like "maaaan I don't want any of my very special imaginary friends to die after I put all this work into writing them. I dunno, let's have there be two Shotos. Maybe Shoto has a brother. But, like, not a real brother, obviously, that'd be too interesting. That guy can die. Is that ok?" but the editor was too busy snorting cocaine to answer him
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Apr 3, 2018 20:58
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quote:Because reality is real. Do you understand?” quote:I nodded. I was about to tap my Log-out icon when Aech held up her—his—hand. chitoryu12 posted:I guess I know how we're rewriting the battle! crowdsourced fanfic of total a total dogshit book is....maybe you could do it in a separate thread from the 'lets read'? 
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Apr 3, 2018 20:59
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Darth Walrus posted:TBH, Leopardon being Wade’s signature ride feels like it would be easy to make work, too. It’s basically his ultimate embrace of all that is cheesy, kitschy, and charmingly lame about Halliday’s preferred media. If you’re writing him as someone who starts out just doing this as a job and gradually falls in love with the media he’s immersed in, having him go ‘holy poo poo yes, forget the stats, forget the metagame, I’m going to win this dumb game with loving Leopardon and nobody’s going to stop me’ and then master using it because mecha combat in the OASIS is really goddamned fun would be a great little turning point. So, you're saying Sorrento is what I call a "wallet warrior"? You jump in a game with them, they have the shiny new kit, you're in your old, well-worn, much patched up kit you assembled yourself and you are kicking all kinds of rear end while they are attacking a corner? EDIT: Yes. I AM speaking of Warframe... Samizdata fucked around with this message at 21:10 on Apr 3, 2018 |
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Apr 3, 2018 21:01
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The problem is that all the challenges rely on things Wade is an expert at, and anything that would be problematic for him gets Deus Ex Machina'd away. And then even things that aren't Deus Ex Machina'd away are Wade Ex Machina'd away as he does things like Hack Into The Mainframe and perfectly execute Black Ops stuff without a hint of danger of failure.
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Apr 3, 2018 21:06
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Choco1980 posted:It's already been mentioned that Cline chose the 2000s Mechagodzilla with very little research. Boy didn't he research though. Kaiju and giant robot/sentai stuff is extremely nerdy about the exact size measurements of their embiggened combatants. It takes next to no research to find out exactly how tall each of the bots used in the big battel are, and a Reddit user did just that with this handy graphic: He also mentioned that there are Evangelions there, then apparently forgot about them. Evangelions are up to 200m tall, so approximately 4x the size of the other mechs. Also, they're literally invulnerable to anything that isn't an actual, honest to god biblical Angel, up to and including nukes. You'd think that they would do more in the fight.
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Apr 3, 2018 21:06
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I appreciate your SCP joke, chitoryu12.
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Apr 3, 2018 21:24
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I've read the first few pages of Monster Hunter International and this is the best goddamn book I've ever read. To this day I don't know why at that moment I felt the need to make a confession to my rapidly mutating boss. Even though I was in accordance with Texas state law, I was in direct violation of the company's workplace safety rule. "You know that 'no weapons at work' policy?" I asked the twitching and growing hairy monstrosity standing less than ten feet from me. His yellow eyes bored into me with raw animal hatred. There was nothing recognizably human in that look. "I never did like that rule," I said as I bent down and drew my gun from my ankle holster, put the front sight on the target and rapidly fired all five shots from my snub-nosed .357 Smith & Wesson into Mr. Huffman's body. God bless Texas.
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Apr 3, 2018 21:25
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quote:“The bastard will probably get off scot-free,” I said. “IOI can afford to hire the best lawyers in the world.” This...this is not how criminal trials work. "Sorry, sir, we thought getting you off was a slam dunk, but it turns out Wade hired the best defense attorneys on earth and convinced them all to become your prosecutors. That's a thing he can do now, because he's the best at everything and has all the money."
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Apr 3, 2018 21:29
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Halliday couldn't even talk to his nerd not-waifu by her real name, but rather had to use her DnD name? Wow.
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Apr 3, 2018 21:30
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StonecutterJoe posted:This...this is not how criminal trials work. "Sorry, sir, we thought getting you off was a slam dunk, but it turns out Wade hired the best defense attorneys on earth and convinced them all to become your prosecutors. That's a thing he can do now, because he's the best at everything and has all the money." He'll just pay off the judge, like any American hero would. 
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Apr 3, 2018 21:30
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loquacius posted:A thought: much is made of the idea that all external feeds into Wade's display get cut out when he reaches Halliday's office, but This is a hugely wasted opportunity to actually show the importance Halliday's "Real life is what really matters!" Instead of a heartfelt scene where Wade's best friends come into the room to cheer him on in person as he makes world history...they just chill out in empty rooms twiddling their thumbs. Come the gently caress on!
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Apr 3, 2018 22:40
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StonecutterJoe posted:This...this is not how criminal trials work. "Sorry, sir, we thought getting you off was a slam dunk, but it turns out Wade hired the best defense attorneys on earth and convinced them all to become your prosecutors. That's a thing he can do now, because he's the best at everything and has all the money." I assume the author is conflating criminal prosecution with suing over breach of contract and TOS. I mean, Wade could just ban IOI and all employees thereof and confiscate their in game cash. He can do that now.
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Apr 3, 2018 22:47
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Liquid Communism posted:I assume the author is conflating criminal prosecution with suing over breach of contract and TOS. Oh yeah, he knows they're using hacked rigs and is now the CEO and superadmin. He can just boot IOI out of OASIS permanently and have his ideal anarchist cyberstate.
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Apr 3, 2018 22:50
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Liquid Communism posted:I mean, Wade could just ban IOI and all employees thereof and confiscate their in game cash. He can do that now. And by so doing, he can afford to let Artemis go feed hungry people or whatever and ALSO build his bitchin' spaceship full of movie theaters and arcades and abandon the dying Earth forever. Happy ending!
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Apr 3, 2018 22:56
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Wade is also going to have to spend the rest of his life in deep hiding. This is not a happy ending. The guy has absolute dictatorial control over the Oasis, including a doomsday button, and has a shitload of ways to affect (or tank) the global economy in a heartbeat. And all someone has to do is grab him, hold a branding iron against his nutsack until he gives up his account password, and now they're the new God of Oasis. And they didn't even have to play a perfect game of Pac-Man to do it. (Which would make a great alternate ending to this pile of poo poo. Suddenly Wade gets a bag over his head, he finds himself tied to a chair in a room with Sorrento who is out on bail, Sorrento's hooking up a couple of jumper cables to a car battery and he's all, "poo poo, we should have just let you win from the start, this is WAY easier.")
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Apr 4, 2018 00:14
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chitoryu12 posted:Oh yeah, he knows they're using hacked rigs and is now the CEO and superadmin. He can just boot IOI out of OASIS permanently and have his ideal anarchist cyberstate. Then IOI retaliated by throttling the GSS servers back to 56k bandwidth, because, tell you what, President Wil Wheaton has got a lovely domestic policy if he has corporations implementing indentured servitude and a Mad Max middle America. Also, OASIS is worth $260 billion, right? That's also in 2040 dollars, assuming inflation remains stable. That would make OASIS worth something like $130 billion in today's money, which makes it substantial but not like Amazon.
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Apr 4, 2018 00:44
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Young Freud posted:Then IOI retaliated by throttling the GSS servers back to 56k bandwidth, because, tell you what, President Wil Wheaton has got a lovely domestic policy if he has corporations implementing indentured servitude and a Mad Max middle America. The will isn't entirely specific, but Halliday says that the winner earns his entire estate, including a fortune of more than $240 billion and his controlling stake of stock in GSS. So presumably Halliday's personal fortune is separate from the actual money and assets GSS has. Also, Wil Wheaton is only the VP of OASIS and Wade outright says he ignores real world elections because only reality TV stars and evangelists can get elected now. By splitting the fortune equally, all four remaining members of the High Five now get about $60 billion.
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Apr 4, 2018 00:47
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quote:I grabbed the sword and used it to slay all three of the dragons.
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Apr 4, 2018 00:50
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roomforthetuna posted:This is the perfect microcosm of Cline-style. I'm really impressed by how quickly Wade gets the egg once he logs into the old computer. A few paragraphs of bland descriptions of playing a primitive hack n' slash game and suddenly he has the ultimate prize in the history of the planet, and we still don't get one iota of emotion out of him!
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Apr 4, 2018 00:53
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roomforthetuna posted:This is the perfect microcosm of Cline-style. Needs 2 pages enumerating exactly how many times Wade watched an 80s tv show (that's actually from the 70s) and how the sword was in the background of a scene of the pilot episode.
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Apr 4, 2018 00:54
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Also it needs to use the word "classic" at least once per sentence.
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Apr 4, 2018 01:04
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Choco1980 posted:It's already been mentioned that Cline chose the 2000s Mechagodzilla with very little research. Boy didn't he research though. Kaiju and giant robot/sentai stuff is extremely nerdy about the exact size measurements of their embiggened combatants. It takes next to no research to find out exactly how tall each of the bots used in the big battel are, and a Reddit user did just that with this handy graphic: I ended up going down a Kaiju hole yesterday. Cline is mish-mashing multiple Mechagodzillas. Heisei Mechagodzilla is 120m tall, making it twice as tall as the other suits. Of course, Ultraman would be like, knee high on that Mechagodzilla. In Godzilla vs Mechagodzilla 2, the Heisei Mechagodzilla combined with the ship Garuda to form Super Mechagodzilla, which had 2 cannons over his shoulders. Could be what he's referring to for that. It's also the Mechagodzilla that's actually piloted from the inside. Millennium is piloted remotely from a control ship. The Kiryu activation thing is 100% from Millennium, so he's not just referencing the Heisei one. So he's confusing 2 and getting a whole bunch of other poo poo wrong. And the Evas are wildly differently sized throughout the show, ranging from 40m to 200m based on height of background stuff. The movies settled on 75m, which would make them taller than anything else, too. EVGA Longoria fucked around with this message at 01:41 on Apr 4, 2018 |
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Apr 4, 2018 01:34
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EVGA Longoria posted:And the Evas are wildly differently sized throughout the show, ranging from 40m to 200m based on height of background stuff. The movies settled on 75m, which would make them taller than anything else, too.
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Apr 4, 2018 02:13
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