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I like Ego! I'll do more work on the Pilot soon. The playtest went well. One thing that I am definitely changing is that all ships should start with lasers. Even if its only a d4 for the Hauler. My pilot chose the Trucker background and when the ship had to face down two unmanned Bulldozer Rockets he said simply, "I fire the ship's weapons at it." And it didn't make sense, narratively, in that moment for the brash, tough talking trucker to be hauling precious cargo without some means of defense. So suddenly the ship had lasers and it all worked fine. The B-Baller (reskinned as the Space Jammer) went out to dunk on some automated fools while the Technician piloted his new enemy-turned-tool drone into the fray. It was a lot of fun. Also, if anyone is interested in a space flavored Ranger, I did that work too. I called it The Beyonder.
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Mar 1, 2018 18:39
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Glazius posted:Also the mention reminded me there were some things I wanted to update on The Princess. (Old link should still be good thanks to versioning.) I've played all of three sessions of DW so I do t have any feedback but I love this playbook. If I had it when people were making characters I think I'd have a very different game going right now.
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Mar 1, 2018 19:36
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I'm going to be running a one-shot at a con. There will probably be players there who've never played before. Are there any versions of playbooks that fit everything on one sheet? Or better yet, that replaces the advanced moves on the second sheet with the basic moves? Nobody is going to have access to advance moves in a one-shot but having the basic moves right in front of them will probably help a lot. Also, I haven't run DW in a while or at a con before so if you have any advice I'd love to read it.
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Apr 3, 2018 06:10
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Give everyone a free 1-5 move, and a free 1-10 move. Level up on 4 xp, or maybe give +1 tokens on a miss.
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Apr 3, 2018 13:53
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You probably want the basic moves on a separate sheet so they can see them at the same time they're looking at their playbook. Also I would start them in the middle of something crazy going on. The last few times I've done one shots, the very first thing that happened is the party being attacked by the flying monkey minions of the Wicked Lich of the West as they approach the Vault of <ask a player what it's the vault of>. EDIT: If you have a player who has experience with DW, have them be the first you ask a worldbuilding type question. They're less likely to freeze up and it will help the other players get into the flow of things if they see and hear an example. Comrade Gorbash fucked around with this message at 14:03 on Apr 3, 2018 |
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Apr 3, 2018 13:59
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Comrade Gorbash posted:flying monkey minions of the Wicked Lich of the West
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Apr 3, 2018 14:38
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Here is a comprehensive guide to running tight one shots from a few years back: https://docs.google.com/document/d/17ypjtlHfcwqrU_-x4b7o0e8tZ_dN2TiNLUu48MLAw7Y/edit Here is a one page distillation: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tf4lalDcwlG6npkFLAsMWYw5ojFUbz1r2OLqKn3C478/edit?pref=2&pli=1
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Apr 3, 2018 14:53
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So I've decided to take the plunge and ask some tabletop friends if they'd like to play Dungeon World, since hearing about it popping up in other threads has turned my head. After reading the rules and absorbing stuff like the above I am absolutely fuckin jazzed about giving it a go. However, what I find utterly intimidating is how a session might...flow. Like, how much prep do I have to do as a DM? My understanding of reading stuff like the 'Tight One-Shot' doc and the rulebook is that the overall campaign front has portents and whatnot, and those would then trickle into the adventure front(s). So compared to D&D, creating a campaign front is the equivalent of creating the big bad so to speak, yeah? From there, the adventure fronts are going to be like, the mcguffin swamp with the thing the big bad wants, or the big bad's childhood home or the big bad's lieutenant's castle, yeah? How do I do all of that while still weaving in the "draw maps but leave blanks"? I guess to put it a different way, the puzzle piece I'm missing is how to run the campaign from a meta level, does that make sense? After an encounter am I meant to do things like, "Who knows a town nearby to resupply at?", things like that? So that I might have several pre-gen steads that serve my fronts, but the players fill in the gaps?
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Apr 3, 2018 17:23
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Waffles Inc. posted:So I've decided to take the plunge and ask some tabletop friends if they'd like to play Dungeon World, since hearing about it popping up in other threads has turned my head. After reading the rules and absorbing stuff like the above I am absolutely fuckin jazzed about giving it a go. So, when you run a D&D campaign, you're mostly expected to plan at least the session coming up ahead of time, if not the vast majority of the entire campaign In Dungeon World, it invites both the players and the GM to Play to Find Out What Happens This means you might have a Big Bad idea, and you introduce that to the PCs in session 0/character gen (by the way I seriously recommend stealing at least the map gen from The Perilous Wilds, it's fantastic and it's really simple) and they go "yeah sure that's awesome" and start bouncing off that. Maybe one player introduces the fact Big Bad had a sidekick who betrayed him and he's gonna play that dude. Maybe someone says the Big Bad indirectly killed his Sister and he wants revenge... The point is, you all bounce off each other. Sure you're still the GM and you're still there to moderate and tell them what happens when they go places and such... But they get a huge say in the world. When the players all turn to you and say "right, what next" then you whip you your moves list and you see what you can do. Maybe you just outright ask them a question back: "Hey Dave, you know a guy called Dorgon the Wizard who lives in the nearby city of Hallstown. In his last letter, what trouble did he say he got into this time?" That'll get everyone at the table going "who's Dorgon?" "What trouble did he get into?" "Is it related to the big bad?" What's also important in DW is nothing is established until it's on screen. That means the world is infinite and anything is possible... Until it's not. If Dave tells us that Dorgon was done for smoking pipe weed again, then we know that pipe weed exists, it's illegal for whatever reason in at least Hallstown and at least Dorgon has access to some (is there a dealer? does he grow it himself?). It the best kind of feedback loop you could ask for I'm sure you'll get other advice from the other professionals in the thread, I'm about to run my own game in like 20 mins so I can't type out a longer answer right now I'm afriad
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Apr 3, 2018 17:40
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Lemme just quote past me on the topic, here.Glazius posted:A front is basically a module, yeah. It's a big agglomeration of the threats and special circumstances and pressing questions around a particular nexus event, and is at least as involved as one night's adventuring. Let's say that our front is an adventure-scale front, The Troubled City Of Tragidore. You're probably going to want to start small. You don't need to create a big bad as much as start with some small things that sound interesting, and see what your players respond to. You can always build a front, whether unattended or eagerly pursued, out toward some bigger bad, but if you start with the outline of a big bad you're limiting yourself to it.
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Apr 4, 2018 02:38
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A useful thing might be to read up on the Starters concept - https://dragonsinmyhouse.blogspot.com/2014/01/dungeon-world-adventure-starters.html - this should give you a good idea of the higher end of prep you can do for a session, but just as often as a GM I'll go into a session with barely a thought or single cool set piece in mind and have things build naturally through narrative collaboration. As other have said, DW is much more cooperative than most RPGs, in particular you're encouraged to straight up ask other players to build the world with you - Describe half of an enemy, ask the player to describe the rest, ask players what weapon the ogre has, what special, unique thing makes this city important, what powers the mages magic, etc. Your role as GM should be, at least in my experience, mainly about asking interesting questions. One aspect I think new GMs often struggle with in DW in regards to flow is the lack of initiative or turns, it can lead to games being dominated by louder or more charismatic players to a degree even beyond the usual you might see in a game. Try to stay on top of this by refocusing the spotlight every few major actions, and I'd highly recommend reading up on GM moves and memorizing them, and using them basically all the time. During combat with DW I'm basically constantly saying "X does Y to you, what do you do?" after every single player action, doing my best to tie X and Y to however the players have moved the narrative along - The orc you just disemboweled lies at your feet, but the one with the same war paint that was tussling with your friend sees this, and engraged at the death of his brother, barrels through the fighter and charges you, what do you do?, that sort of thing. GMing Dungeon World is great, its a lot of fun and its an incredible learning experience in my opinion, it's at the same time very very easy, and very very difficult, but it's always a blast. There's a reason I rarely if ever run any other kind of game these days.
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Apr 4, 2018 04:21
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Nemesis Of Moles posted:A useful thing might be to read up on the Starters concept - https://dragonsinmyhouse.blogspot.com/2014/01/dungeon-world-adventure-starters.html - this should give you a good idea of the higher end of prep you can do for a session, but just as often as a GM I'll go into a session with barely a thought or single cool set piece in mind and have things build naturally through narrative collaboration. Ah thanks so much for these! I loving LOVE the Sky Chain one. Also thanks so much Kaffo for the Perilous Wilds suggestion, I snagged that and I'll definitely be doing the map building in session zero, and I think I'm gonna have our "starting location" be the Sky Chain. So once you get all of that going, everyone would have their reasons for being there and questions answered and whatnot and then you just...go? And as things develop, then you as the DM begin to weave with the cloth the party gives you as they reveal and explore and create? Sorry to keep hammering on this, it's just that something in my mind hasn't yet clicked in the transition from D&D thinking. I'm just afraid that when we actually start, everything is just gonna be stuck in neutral; i'm intimidated about how I can drive the action without a narrative. In my D&D DMing life, I've always, either through a module or my own writing, had a way to get the party out of neutral because there were always machinations behind the scenes, and with Dungeon World it feels like I don't have that safety net.
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Apr 4, 2018 14:27
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Waffles Inc. posted:Ah thanks so much for these! I loving LOVE the Sky Chain one. One of the rules is you get to make a move when Everyone Turns to You To Find Out What Happens or They Give You A Golden Opportunity That means you can make a hard or soft move and get the action going again right away Say they start in a bar and they are all sitting drinking their beer, then there's a lull in the conversation... You jump in and Reveal an Unwelcome Truth as they find out that actually, the guy who had all the gold on him has lost the bag somewhere... And here comes the inn keep looking to collect the tab... If you are ever in a place where there's a moment of silence, the players are dicking about or When They Give You A Golden Opportunity then do it. That's what keeps the pace up If you play DW by the letter, you'll find that you'll never have downtime (of course, make sure you give your players time and space to do some idle roleplay if they like campfire chat or whatever) but the second someone looks like they are losing interest, you throw a move at them. Learning the moves and how to use them to your advantage (especially on the spot) takes a bit of getting used to. What I love to do it throw it back to the players. They will always surprise you: "You're having a great time in the bar, when Sam (quite drunk) looks down to see the party coin purse is missing! The inn keeper is coming around the tables looking for the tab... Derrek how did you piss this guy off last time you were here?" You've not put any thought into that inn keeper, but now Derrek can, he might have a great idea and really spice it up. And that's one of the great powers of DW
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Apr 4, 2018 14:48
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It's a common concern and you shouldn't feel bad for it at all. The key thing that stops the action slowing down is the GM Moves, in my experience. You always want to be having SOMETHING happen in response to player actions - Open with a set piece - you're at the Sky Chain to meet with an important diplomat or there's an attack going on or something, then as the drama plays out, ask questions of the players and begin building the world from there. It doesn't hurt if you go in with at least an idea of the sort of game you all want to play, just so long as you're prepared to upend that if the players and you drive it elsewhere during play. Dungeon World's safety net for the party being stuck is actually very robust and powerful - Say that something interesting has happened, and ask the players "What Do You Do?". Don't worry about the particulars, just push the ball down the hill and let it roll
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Apr 4, 2018 14:49
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Nemesis Of Moles posted:Dungeon World's safety net for the party being stuck is actually very robust and powerful - Say that something interesting has happened, and ask the players "What Do You Do?". Don't worry about the particulars, just push the ball down the hill and let it roll This is literally a crystallizaton of the old rule of noir. Whenever you write yourself into a corner, have someone start shooting at the protagonist to get things moving again.
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Apr 4, 2018 14:56
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aha! That did the trick I think: the GM moves are the driver It's always easy to imagine things sputtering when I'm sitting here by myself without the energy of a session haha
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Apr 4, 2018 14:57
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Waffles Inc. posted:aha! That did the trick I think: the GM moves are the driver On unrelated note, if your players are DnD players, they'll 10,000% try to use the list of moves on their sheet as exhaustive, and it's not You'll need to gently remind them that they don't use moves like they'd use a DnD power. There's a good chance you'll need to persuade them to just describe what their character is doing then you tell them if it triggers a move This is especially important when they are doing something which the move might describe, but you feel isn't dramatic enough for a roll For example, maybe a player wants to punch a beggar in the face and asks to roll Hack n Slash, you might just say "nah, you punch him, it's a beggar, no need" or maybe the beggar is actually a bad rear end wicked assassin and you ask them to roll Defy Danger to make sure they don't get a knife plunged into their chest Personally, it took half a dozen sessions of prompting my players for more info to get it out of them "I Volley the war lord" "Erm, no, tell me what you're actually doing. You are hiding behind the barrel right? What's your plan here?" "Oh right, well I'm going to stand up, because I think the coast is clear, then I'm gonna line up my bow to the war lord's legs and try to get him to stop running around like a maniac" Then you can decide if he's rolling volley, maybe he's got to roll Defy Danger first to avoid the hail of arrows as soon as he stands up, or the swordsman he didn't see coming It's the small things like this that makes PbtA a very powerful system... But you've got to throw away the DnD assumptions, or you'll find the system "sticky" when rules start getting argued over and there's lulls in the action
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Apr 4, 2018 15:14
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That's something so many players struggle with that you'll almost certainly spend like half the session going "No no, you don't Hack and Slash, what is your character actually doing?"Waffles Inc. posted:It's always easy to imagine things sputtering when I'm sitting here by myself without the energy of a session haha It's also easy for us to sit here and tell you oh its so simple Just Do This. DW can be a hard system to run, and you might find yourself leaning on your D&D instincts here and there, that's alright, you'll get it eventually
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Apr 4, 2018 15:24
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Kaffo's advice there is spot on, but I did want to pull this out for a separate discussion.kaffo posted:Then you can decide if he's rolling volley, maybe he's got to roll Defy Danger first to avoid the hail of arrows as soon as he stands up, or the swordsman he didn't see coming In this example, it should be either Defy Danger OR Volley, but not both. The key is that moves have downsides built into them - either explicitly like the 7-9 outcomes for each, where it spells out the compromises you need to make, or implicitly because a 6- is a trigger for a GM move. If you do Defy Danger in order to set up Volley, you have two chances for bad outcomes and only one chance for a good outcome. The Defy Danger success is a null result - it doesn't change the circumstances, the player is still putting themselves at risk depending on the Volley result. Deciding which move should be used is more art than science, but typically the guiding factor will be whether you think the established fiction makes the question "can you do this at all" vs "how well do you do this." If it's about whether it can be done at all, if the question is if its possible to both make the shot and avoid the arrows, then roll Defy Danger. On a 10+, they avoid the arrows AND hit the target, follow the fiction to decide the result of the hit (this can include damage!). On a 7-9, you can force them to pick between getting the hit and avoiding the arrows - that's a great worse outcome, hard bargain, or ugly choice. On a 6-, go to town - they miss the shot and they get hit, or whatever feels appropriately nasty for the moment. If avoiding the arrows while firing is definitely possible but you want to know how doing that affects the shot, then Volley. The 10+ and 6- are the same, but the 7-9 lets them decide - did they expose themselves to the hail of arrows? Did staying low to avoid the arrows mean they didn't get a clean hit? Did they decide not to expose themselves and thus rather than aiming just sprayed and prayed (used up ammo)? It's a bit of a fine distinction driven by the moves not really being as well constructed as they could be, but even if you just flip a coin to decide between them, just do the one. That being said, there are occasional circumstances where one action can trigger two or more moves. The key is that this is appropriate when only one of those moves is determining the outcome of the action, and the others are circumstantial. For example, a Dashing Hero who goes to Carouse might also trigger their A Lover in Every Port move. This is okay because neither move depends on the success of the other. You could use the result of one to narratively explain the result of the other, but a 6- Carouse doesn't cause you to ignore or change the result of A Lover in Every Port, it just potentially changes the way you present that result. Comrade Gorbash fucked around with this message at 15:55 on Apr 4, 2018 |
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Apr 4, 2018 15:52
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Cheers I really appreciate the help; I'm super jazzed about DW; it's the game I've wanted D&D to be ever since I started playing tabletop
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Apr 4, 2018 15:52
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Comrade Gorbash posted:Kaffo's advice there is spot on, but I did want to pull this out for a separate discussion. I'm adding this whole post to a notes doc I've got going, it's incredibly illuminating! As far as the special like, class specific, leveling up player moves, is it more "correct" for them to say, "I'm doing Carouse"? Or as the DM do I have to have memorization knowledge of all of the possible PC moves as well?
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Apr 4, 2018 15:56
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So long as they tell you what they do in character, THEN tell you "That triggers [Move]" then its cool imo
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Apr 4, 2018 15:59
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It's good to know which special moves your PCs have taken such that you know which triggers to look for. But you don't need to have an encyclopaedic knowledge of every move in the game or anything. Just concentrate on what your PCs can do.
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Apr 4, 2018 16:01
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Something I try to do with any PbtA game is remember that, at its core, it's a game about language more than it is about numbers. A well-written PbtA move has a very clear narrative trigger, something that will happen exactly when it needs to and never when it doesn't. That means, as a GM, I try to be pretty strict about what does and doesn't trigger a move. In some cases, that can remove a bit of the mental burden from you as a GM, because the moves are doing some of the heavy lifting. It isn't a judgment call as to when Hack and Slash triggers, for example--it triggers any time you "attack an enemy in melee." That means that the target is an enemy (as in, one opponent, not several, and not something that isn't actively resisting you) and that you and the target are in melee (not "in melee range," but engaging in melee combat). Any other time, it isn't Hack and Slash. At the same time, it's a good idea to closely read what a move actually accomplishes. D&D players will likely try to treat Discern Realities as a Spot check, but that isn't the case. It's not revealing anything hidden--it's helping the character put together the pieces of what they see. As a GM, you shouldn't be hiding details from the player that will turn up if they think to Discern Realities. You should tell them everything their character can see--whether it's something obvious, or something they'd naturally turn up by doing whatever they narrated doing--and let Discern Realities be a way for them to closely study what they see and figure out how it's all connected. Comrade Gorbash posted:<Defy Danger advice> I haven't run Dungeon World in a long while, but back when I did, Defy Danger was always one of the trickier moves for me and my players to get a handle on. Something we had a tough time with was figuring out when it made sense to roll Defy Danger with mental stats. It's easy to see how you can Defy Danger with DEX (dodge, parry, avoid), CON (withstand), and even STR (turn the attack back on them, meet the rolling boulder head-on and push it out of the way). But it takes some work to see where INT, WIS, and CHA can come in, and it's something that didn't make sense to me until a long time after my last Dungeon World game. I think our problems at the time were twofold: 1. We regularly forgot, as a group, that a move requires an interesting consequence for failure. If there isn't a clear danger to defy, then you shouldn't roll Defy Danger. 2. As a GM, I sometimes forgot that it's okay for a danger to be defy-able with multiple stats. Say there's an illusionist trying to kill you and has like a dozen fake copies, and they're all about to stab you. My players would likely try to Defy Danger with DEX to dodge the knife--even the ones with higher INT than DEX--and I'd forget that, well, what if you instead used quick thinking to figure out which copy was the real one and effortlessly step out of the way? Would it make sense to use WIS instead as you calm yourself in the face of panic and let the truth reveal itself to you? I also didn't include non-physical dangers enough. I forgot that it was okay for me to present the party with a threat so intimidating that it filled them with fear, something they could defy with WIS (use willpower to push through) or even CHA (muster up bravado and try to intimidate the enemy right back). Harrow fucked around with this message at 16:21 on Apr 4, 2018 |
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Apr 4, 2018 16:14
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Defy Danger with CHA is pretty much the go-to for fast-talking your way out of (or into) trouble.
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Apr 4, 2018 16:20
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Waffles Inc. posted:I'm adding this whole post to a notes doc I've got going, it's incredibly illuminating! It's possible for a player to describe an action broad enough that you will want to break it down into segments. You don't want to get overly granular with this, but it can happen. Let's say a player declares, "I'm going to sneak down the hallway, spy on the orcs, and come back to report to the party." Now, it's worth considering just folding that all up into one move - Defy Danger or Discern Realities. Ask "If they sneak down the hallway successfully, will spying on the orcs be a trivial issue? Or is sneaking down the hallway not the risk - it's whether they can see something useful once they get there?" That should lead you to the right choice. But it's possibly you do have two different actions here. That "come back and report" is where I might make a slice. You've narratively got passage of time and space enough that circumstances may have changed by the time they start on their way back. Maybe a patrol has come up. Then I might ask them to make another move - almost certainly Defy Danger - to complete the sequence successfully. The key is whether you already have or will cause a meaningful change in the state of the world for each and every move. Another example in the same circumstance - say the danger in the hallway is a trap. Then I might ask for Defy Danger to find out if they've disabled the trap or merely bypassed it while leaving it active, and then still ask for another move once the get down the hall. The reason here is that "what's the state of the trap?" is a separate and interesting narrative distinction. The world where the trap is still armed is a very different one than the world where it's not, and that has a powerful effect on the potential consequences of the next move. This is the sort of thing I mean when I talk about scope in PbtA. I still would lean towards one move (Defy Danger) to cover that sequence, but I can easily imagine games where it makes sense to break it down further. Comrade Gorbash fucked around with this message at 16:36 on Apr 4, 2018 |
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Apr 4, 2018 16:33
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Comrade Gorbash posted:Words of Wisdom Also, I bribed my players. I gave them sweets from a bowl every time they avoided explicitly saying a move, but what they said triggered a move It's entirely optional to treat your players like big eyed puppies or not 
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Apr 4, 2018 17:55
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I know I've talked about it before in both the GM thread and the PbtA thread, but one of the things that will really help keep the action moving in a Dungeon World game is to present the players with situations that they cannot ignore. While this is relatively easy for plots, one thing that's really important to keep in mind (especially in DW) is to remember to do this in fights as well. Because the GM never rolls dice in DW, an easy trap to fall into is to have the PCs' foes stand around like dopes waiting for the PCs to smack them. This will produce an effect where the players will walk all over the competition, especially if they work together. And that's fine at some level, but if you want to give your PCs a challenge in DW, the best way to do that is narratively rather than mechanically. You need to make ample use of your GM moves on behalf of your monsters. Don't depend on players failing their hack & slash rolls to inflict damage on them - it's totally cool to set up a move (say, by revealing an unwelcome truth like, "The Ogre swings his massive, iron-studded club at you!") and follow through on it if the PC does nothing to change the fictional situation (say, by inflicting harm as established like, "with bone-crushing force, the massive club strikes, inflicting 8 hp of damage and knocking you clean off your feet!"). If a player doesn't respond to your set-up ("oh poo poo, massive club!") then they are presenting you with the aforementioned Golden Opportunity ("smack!"). You've done your due diligence in informing them of the fictional situation. Essentially, what you are doing is having your monster take the initiative and thus you are forcing the PCs to react to the changing fictional situation. And don't feel like you always have to go super soft by starting with your unwelcome truths; depending on the situation, it's totally cool to cut to the chase and say, "With the speed of a viper, the duelist lashes out with his rapier. Though the cut across your fingers is relatively shallow, the sharp pain and sudden leverage send your longsword flying over the edge of the balcony. He stands there bouncing on the balls of his feet, grinning. 'Shall I cut my initials into your cheek next?' What do you do?" This is you taking away their stuff, which is one of your basic GM moves. Some GMs will balk at this, feeling that it's "unfair" or that the PCs should somehow be able to "resist" any given potential consequence, but in some sense this is how you make your foes dangerous in PbtA games. Generally, the more dangerous the monster, the more aggressively (i.e. "harder") or more often I'll make my GM moves. Some poo poo should be terrifying, and it's not just about giving it more HP or armor.
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Apr 4, 2018 18:30
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I think that will likely be the biggest hurdle, conceptually, for my D&D familiar players. It probably initially feels "unfair" that an enemy can just...do that, because they're used to a system where you have to roll for everything. I know I'm for sure going to have to get over that feeling myself, as a DM "I can't do that, it would be unfair to them" forgetting that they have essentially the same level of agency. It's like Morpheus clowning Neo and then asking him if that's air he's breathing
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Apr 4, 2018 18:36
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One of the major issues I have coming back to any RPG that isn't DW is once you get used to that style of GMing its drat hard to break it and every game seems so tepid and lifeless by comparison.
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Apr 4, 2018 19:12
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Nemesis Of Moles posted:One of the major issues I have coming back to any RPG that isn't DW is once you get used to that style of GMing its drat hard to break it and every game seems so tepid and lifeless by comparison. I find that there are ways to carry some of that PbtA dynamism forward into games that don't specifically codify it in the rules. For example, Dungeon World eventually taught me that I should only have the players roll for something if a) that action has an interesting consequence for failure given the current in-game fiction and b) that action would meaningfully change the state of the in-game fiction if the PC succeeds. If either of those isn't true, it's worth questioning whether it's worth it to roll. If there's no interesting consequence for failure, either I need to find one, or the player doesn't need to roll in the first place--if a PC is trying to pick a lock and there's no time pressure, no alarm to trip, or anything like that, does it really matter if they fail? Just let it happen. Meanwhile, if nothing particularly interesting would happen on a success--nothing changes, the PCs don't learn anything new or gain anything, it doesn't really affect how the story progresses--then it's not really important enough for a roll in the first place. If it's inconsequential, just narrate it away. The other thing is that I learned not to be afraid to just make poo poo up. Sometimes the consequence of a failed roll can change the narrative in ways that isn't directly connected to the roll. Maybe a PC fails to pick a lock and, because the party has been standing around waiting for them, now all of a sudden monsters have figured out their position. From a strictly out of character perspective, yeah, that PC's failed lockpick roll somehow magically conjured monsters out of thin air. But from a narrative perspective, I already justified it--the monsters already existed somewhere else in the dungeon, and the reason they're here now is because the failed attempt to pick a lock took too long. If you're playing a game with really defined combat systems and rules then this sort of stuff doesn't necessarily apply to the same degree in combat, but it still sort of can. Maybe the ogre missing his swing just barely means that, sure, the PC doesn't take damage, but the ogre's swing goes so wild that it hits a nearby pillar and now the ceiling above you is threatening to collapse. Things like that--even if there's tactical, grid-based combat with well-defined rules, you can still have failed rolls result in interesting consequences beyond "does damage" vs. "does not do damage."
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Apr 4, 2018 19:33
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Waffles Inc. posted:I think that will likely be the biggest hurdle, conceptually, for my D&D familiar players. It probably initially feels "unfair" that an enemy can just...do that, because they're used to a system where you have to roll for everything. I know I'm for sure going to have to get over that feeling myself, as a DM FWIW, this is where I typically am thinking about defy danger rolls. I might allow the PC a STR roll to break out of the tentacle's grip, or a CON roll to simply resist the crushing force while the PC's compatriots try to hack her free of the tentacle. Similarly present an opportunity with a cost is great because it sets up the situation but gives agency back to the player to decide which direction the story progresses. "With your sword arm pinned you can't really bring your weapon to bear. But if you drop your sword and draw your dagger, you could maybe work it up underneath one of the coils and start sawing your way free. Or you could drop your shield and draw your dagger in your off-hand. Wanna try?"
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Apr 4, 2018 20:21
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kaffo posted:On unrelated note, if your players are DnD players, they'll 10,000% try to use the list of moves on their sheet as exhaustive, and it's not I feel like Dungeon World is especially prone to this because it takes so many cues from D&D that the same reflexes get triggered. But it's clearly a broad spectrum issue. Almost none of the PBTA actual plays I've listened to have managed to steer away from "I feel like you should roll dice here so what's the closest move?". Even Austin Walker, who's generally one of the best PBTA GMs I've listened to, has fallen into that particular trap...
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Apr 5, 2018 01:34
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That's one of the things I've most realized from switching to Fellowship, in play - you gotta know when to tell them not to roll, and just call it either way. The problem is insurmountable by those methods, or you're badass enough to just succeed. Sometimes you gotta call it.
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Apr 5, 2018 05:22
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Ilor posted:It's good to know which special moves your PCs have taken such that you know which triggers to look for. But you don't need to have an encyclopaedic knowledge of every move in the game or anything. Just concentrate on what your PCs can do. Waffles Inc. posted:aha! That did the trick I think: the GM moves are the driver Harrow posted:Something I try to do with any PbtA game is remember that, at its core, it's a game about language more than it is about numbers. Specifically, it's kind of tough to give generic advice about Dungeon World because it's so much about language that you're going to necessarily wind up making judgments at the table based not only on previous conversations but on the way things are currently flowing. So, prep is worth it, as far as it helps you keep the flow going. Like, you're sitting down and thinking about cool adventure things, and you're like - "an ancient labyrinth - that's going to be tougher to navigate than just Discern Realities + the path to the center sure is useful! better write a move" or "a whole bunch of trapsy kobolds - getting out of an ambush is going to be tougher than just Defy Danger + they're gone! better write a move". And another way looking over starters is useful is they give you ideas for what's neat for custom moves. With flow in mind... Waffles Inc. posted:As far as the special like, class specific, leveling up player moves, is it more "correct" for them to say, "I'm doing Carouse"? Or as the DM do I have to have memorization knowledge of all of the possible PC moves as well? Ilor posted:It's good to know which special moves your PCs have taken such that you know which triggers to look for. But you don't need to have an encyclopaedic knowledge of every move in the game or anything. Just concentrate on what your PCs can do. For goodness sakes don't shut your players down when they try to engage with the game by saying the name of a move they want to use. The canonical response in that case is "Cool, how?" And knowing the fictional hooks for a move will help you prompt them to frame it appropriately in the fiction, in addition to letting you confidently offer an opportunity that fits a class's abilities when the fiction should be presenting one. It will help to go over each playbook a little bit and note the things that jump out at you, but even better than that is keeping your own spare copy of any reference sheet or playbook you hand out to the players. It's a bit of an ask, expecting people who you've just taught the game to turn around and explain to you how their own moves should be working. You should be trying not to say the name of any of your GM moves, but that's different. The only thing behind your moves is more fiction, so saying the name doesn't really accomplish anything besides making yourself look scripted and fake. But inside a lot of player moves, especially the ones they're trying to "use", is not only the fiction of the move itself, but the probabilities of a die roll and the risks and rewards of its outcome, any of which is just as valid a thing to try to move towards as the fictional prompt for the move. When a player says "I'm gonna Hack and Slash the ogre" it can be for any of the reasons packed up in the move, and you just need to make sure it's got enough fiction behind it so that when those traitor dice come up snake eyes you understand the situation well enough to grab the opportunity, make a move, and give someone else a reason to take action. The first or second time you say "Cool, how?" you might need to explain yourself and come up with some examples of how things could proceed differently, so be ready for that. (The general question "how are you doing that?" is also useful as people make the specific choices prompted by some of the moves, like Discern Realities. You're trying to find something useful or valuable to you - okay, so what are you thinking of doing next and how is examining this dwarven control console supposed to help with that? You want to know who's really in control here? Where is "here"? If it's this room full of corpses that aren't you, then that's you, noble adventurers. If it's this whole complex...) Something else you're going to want to keep in mind is that at some point someone's going to gently caress up and it might well be you. If you and the players get different expectations out of the conversation - like, if they think they're safe and you think you've clearly communicated they're in danger, and you just drop a train of damage on them because it was obvious to you that they saw it coming and had other priorities - then they might react like they got suckersmacked and it's important that you listen to them. In the name of good sportsmanship if nothing else. I mean, you command eternity and they've just got some hit points, what have you got to lose? Waffles Inc. posted:"I can't do that, it would be unfair to them" forgetting that they have essentially the same level of agency. It's like Morpheus clowning Neo and then asking him if that's air he's breathing There's one kind of important caveat here, and that's that they don't have the same level of agency, not quite. There's another game in the PbtA line, more mutated but still in the same mindset, called Blades in the Dark, and in that one they actually do, in that you can just haul off and describe an expert swordsman disarming them or a demon stealing their soul and they can go "gently caress that, I resist" and make a roll to see how much it costs them to resist. As a result, you can never quite manage to do anything "before they react" because they can always try and resist, but when you want to emphasize that, yes, they are up against one high-test motherfucker, you start by describing something nasty that's already happening. In Dungeon World, if you're dropping something out of the clear blue sky and it's going to land somewhere that isn't on a bunch of hit points they didn't need to live anyway, it's probably better to stop at the last second, to give them the chance to react. Once a threat's in play and the things it can do are established, you can absolutely follow through on them as far as your heart desires. malkav11 posted:I feel like Dungeon World is especially prone to this because it takes so many cues from D&D that the same reflexes get triggered. But it's clearly a broad spectrum issue. Almost none of the PBTA actual plays I've listened to have managed to steer away from "I feel like you should roll dice here so what's the closest move?". Even Austin Walker, who's generally one of the best PBTA GMs I've listened to, has fallen into that particular trap... Well, people are taking action. The outcome is in doubt, and it's not clear what ought to happen. I mean, that's what dice are supposed to do when you're playing an RPG, give you something to pass that decision off to. One of your responsibilities as DM is to write a move when the situation demands, whether or not you've thought about it in advance. Don't just call for a roll not knowing for what, but do take some time to think about it. If it turns out the outcome is not in doubt - people will succeed, and there are no unpredictable costs to pay - then sure, mark off two adventuring gear for a rope long enough and a handful of wall spikes and everybody's up on top the ruined wall.
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Apr 5, 2018 14:25
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malkav11 posted:I feel like Dungeon World is especially prone to this because it takes so many cues from D&D that the same reflexes get triggered. But it's clearly a broad spectrum issue. Almost none of the PBTA actual plays I've listened to have managed to steer away from "I feel like you should roll dice here so what's the closest move?". Even Austin Walker, who's generally one of the best PBTA GMs I've listened to, has fallen into that particular trap... I'll never stop recommending that guide, because it opened my eyes as a GM in general
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Apr 5, 2018 14:44
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Waffles Inc. posted:How do I do all of that while still weaving in the "draw maps but leave blanks"? I just think of fronts as a tool for organizing suggestions, akin to a list of premade names for NPCs and locations. When the players fail their negotiation roll with the mayor, it's convenient to fall back on those notes. "Sorry, I can't lend you my airship because" *looks at fronts* "I already gave it to Evil Cult so they can" *looks at agenda* "transport materials for their Great Ritual." If it were D&D you'd just be rolling to see how rude/helpful the mayor was while delivering your prewritten exposition. In Dungeon World you're constantly making moves in response to the players' improvisation, so it's helpful to have a few sources to draw from for inspiration (fronts, monster moves, dungeon moves).
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Apr 5, 2018 19:59
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How do you find yourself dealing with player absences and whatnot? My goal I think is to make this campaign episodic, and I wonder if the best way to do it is to give the crew a base of some kind Do you find yourself more willing/able to split the party with this system than with D&D?
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Apr 7, 2018 16:26
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I do what I usually do when players drop for a session or two, just pretend they were never there till they return then they always were - with adjustments to their level or Bonds if the absence lasts for a while. Splitting the party is a bit better in this than D&D because of the lack of initiative and similar mechanics but I still stay clear of it, but that's also my personal preference in most games.
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Apr 7, 2018 16:32
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Waffles Inc. posted:How do you find yourself dealing with player absences and whatnot? My goal I think is to make this campaign episodic, and I wonder if the best way to do it is to give the crew a base of some kind In my Star Wars World game I deal with absences by writing love letters to the players for when they come back.
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Apr 7, 2018 16:53
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